Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
Speaker 1: production of My Heart Breeding. Hello, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called
Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined with our guest producer Max, the
Speaker 1: freight Train Williams. Most importantly, you are you. You are here,
Speaker 1: and that makes this the stuff they don't want you
Speaker 1: to know, a lot of people are flying on planes
Speaker 1: these days, and things are only getting weirder. We also
Speaker 1: found some frightening, heartbreaking evidence of corruption in Big pharm up.
Speaker 1: Not a theory, it seems pretty true. We'll get to it.
Speaker 1: But first first, our news today takes us to Mississippi,
Speaker 1: and uh, this is a story about a celebrity, but
Speaker 1: there's much more to it than that. I want to
Speaker 1: give a special shout out to our pal West over
Speaker 1: at Station sixteen because nol As we were coming into
Speaker 1: record just earlier today. In fact, our pal west had
Speaker 1: was talking to me and he he wanted to ask
Speaker 1: us about corruption in Mississippi. What fantastic timing. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: you know how if you live in Mississippi. I suppose
Speaker 1: it's pretty all horrible timing. They're often for the least fortunate,
Speaker 1: UH and Mississippi is, of course also the state populated
Speaker 1: by the least fortunate of Americans. It is the poorest
Speaker 1: UH state in the country. And Matt, you brought us
Speaker 1: you know, we've been keeping up with a story that
Speaker 1: you started uh talking about in a previous news episode
Speaker 1: about their ongoing water troubles and how essentially the residents
Speaker 1: of the capital city of Mississippi, Jackson, were kind of
Speaker 1: left high and dry or well wet, but mainly with filthy,
Speaker 1: dangerous water and boil advisories galore and all kinds of
Speaker 1: really bad looking moments from politicians there, who is this
Speaker 1: is very clear that there's there's not a whole lot
Speaker 1: of of thought put into the welfare of the citizens.
Speaker 1: In the keyword there here for today's story is welfare
Speaker 1: a term that can be you know, kind of weaponized,
Speaker 1: used negatively in terms of politicians saying, oh, welfare is bad.
Speaker 1: It's just like handouts from the government people that should
Speaker 1: kind of pull themselves up by their bootstraps whatever. And
Speaker 1: that is according to reporting coming out of Mississippi UM
Speaker 1: somewhat the attitude there, it would seem, you know, local
Speaker 1: residents were not surprised to find out that money from
Speaker 1: the Mississippi Department of Human Services had been miss approach
Speaker 1: created at the very least, stolen at the very worst,
Speaker 1: to fund everything from traffic tickets for officials to UH
Speaker 1: sports facilities UM pet projects of NFL former superstar UM
Speaker 1: Brett Farve. And you may know this. This guy has
Speaker 1: kind of been in hot water in the past due
Speaker 1: to some allegations of sexual assault. UM. And he apparently
Speaker 1: is neck deep embroiled in this scandal. UM that also
Speaker 1: involves the former governor of Mississippi, Republican Phil Bryant. Texts
Speaker 1: have emerged recently in court documents between Brett Farve and
Speaker 1: former Republican Governor Phil Bryant UM, joking about like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm too old to end up in federal prison l
Speaker 1: O L you know cool guy emoji UM. Also, other
Speaker 1: texts between Bryant and UH and Brett Farve have been
Speaker 1: released showing the governor was more than happy to help
Speaker 1: far raise private money for a volleyball facility at his
Speaker 1: daughter's university, UM that started construction in seventeen and apparently
Speaker 1: a lot of this you know, misappropriated welfare money. In fact,
Speaker 1: around I believe eight million close to it was kind
Speaker 1: of funneled into these pet projects of Brett Farve, including
Speaker 1: several million for this volleyball facility. And the issue with
Speaker 1: this story that's so interesting and I'd love to hear
Speaker 1: you guys thoughts on it is the government in Mississippi
Speaker 1: is so rife with corruption and this kind of self serving,
Speaker 1: you know, attitude of like, oh, you know, welfare is
Speaker 1: misuse of money because you know, poor folks should be
Speaker 1: able to kind of like dig themselves out of their
Speaker 1: own situation. But this is literally money that could have
Speaker 1: gone towards like parenting classes for folks that have maybe
Speaker 1: lost their kids due to homelessness or due to varying circumstances.
Speaker 1: And obviously this is all all these things can be devices,
Speaker 1: and you can be on both sides and saying that
Speaker 1: parents who lose their kids maybe shouldn't have a second chance.
Speaker 1: But I mean that's what this money is for, is
Speaker 1: to help people rehabilitate themselves because likely they were part
Speaker 1: of a system that to some degree fed into their circumstances.
Speaker 1: I mean, everything is not a choice to some degree,
Speaker 1: you know, you are put in a situation and if
Speaker 1: you're not given the opportunities to some people have, you
Speaker 1: are more likely to end up, you know, in one
Speaker 1: of these negative situations. So, but the question becomes, is
Speaker 1: this just bone headed government like funneling money to silly
Speaker 1: things or not putting it in the right places or
Speaker 1: is this flat out fraud? Uh? And not to mention
Speaker 1: a conspiracy, I mean it is, you know essentially. Uh.
Speaker 1: The former director of the mississipp Department of Human Services
Speaker 1: again in John Davis, pled guilty Thursday to federal and
Speaker 1: state felony charges involving a conspiracy to misspend this welfare money. Um.
Speaker 1: And he was appointed by that former governor of Sippy
Speaker 1: Bryant in and then he was fired uh in July
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. And he's gonna name names. So the truth
Speaker 1: is going to come out. But the fact that it's
Speaker 1: such a gray area as to whether this was like,
Speaker 1: you know, negligence or outright fraud. Uh at the highest level,
Speaker 1: this guy, you know, seems like he's almost like the
Speaker 1: fall guy. And do you really think Brett Farve and
Speaker 1: the governor are gonna take the fall I I don't know,
Speaker 1: but it's a it's a very upsetting story. What do
Speaker 1: you guys think? I'm still wrapping my head around all
Speaker 1: the details here. There's a lot of stuff reading this
Speaker 1: AP news article you linked us to KNOWL that discusses
Speaker 1: a bunch of people and what they knew this person
Speaker 1: Nancy and John Davis and like farv and I guess
Speaker 1: that Bryant character who was governor. So like, it's just
Speaker 1: seems pretty They're they're following text messages, right, It's often
Speaker 1: like that's what I'm seeing they're looking at. And a
Speaker 1: lot of this stuff came out like a year or
Speaker 1: more ago, and so this is sort of like, you know,
Speaker 1: almost like new information that that makes it look even worse.
Speaker 1: And farves development, farms involvement, uh much more knowing you
Speaker 1: know what I mean that they would come up within
Speaker 1: where he would say, well, I didn't know that what
Speaker 1: they were going to do with the money. Uh, I
Speaker 1: didn't ask for it. But then now they are a
Speaker 1: text messages literally saying I think he's asking, uh, Nancy
Speaker 1: new um, is anyone ever gonna know where this money
Speaker 1: came from? And she says to me the effect of
Speaker 1: like no, No, you're you're covered because you know that's
Speaker 1: definitely I think something you'd be worried about if legitimate
Speaker 1: funds are being used for your project. Right. And also, uh,
Speaker 1: I want to specifically say that charity uh fove for
Speaker 1: hope number four. There's a thing that I recommend everybody
Speaker 1: do when you're learning about a charity. Go to charity
Speaker 1: navigator dot org. Charity navigator dot org is a pretty
Speaker 1: comprehensive way to look at a charity that you don't
Speaker 1: know much about. They give it a score. Uh. They
Speaker 1: talked about the impact and results of the charities, but
Speaker 1: then they also talked about their financials and accountability. They
Speaker 1: grade on a one to one hundred scale. And uh,
Speaker 1: this charity is still rated eight five out of a hundred,
Speaker 1: which isn't too bad, but also as terrible as it
Speaker 1: is to have to admit it, charities are often used
Speaker 1: to wash money. Most charities are really great and they're
Speaker 1: doing fantastic work, but you need to understand that charities
Speaker 1: can also be a vehicle for financial crime and corruption. Well,
Speaker 1: and another thing to this alleged scam did and again
Speaker 1: this far has um association with this very much alleged again,
Speaker 1: charges have been filed in court, but thus far far
Speaker 1: has not been legally implicated directly. This is, you know,
Speaker 1: just an ongoing story. But he allegedly was also paid
Speaker 1: over a million dollars for speaking engagement. Is that never
Speaker 1: took place. A lot of money was you know, funneled for.
Speaker 1: It's it's like kind of gangster type stuff, like you
Speaker 1: know when you when you run a scam on a
Speaker 1: construction site and you overcharged for like, you know, a chair,
Speaker 1: and it's a way of kind of like hiding where
Speaker 1: the money goes getting what's that money actually going to him?
Speaker 1: Getting pad was going to him to help pay for
Speaker 1: this arena he had this volleyball facility build, and then
Speaker 1: that happened like you know, several years ago. And now
Speaker 1: he's like almost double dippy. He's going back to the
Speaker 1: trough allegedly to help pay for another sports facility. Right yeah,
Speaker 1: And he also to be clear, he paid the money back.
Speaker 1: But what I was seeing is that the State of
Speaker 1: Mississippi is still seeking something like a little south of
Speaker 1: two and thirty thousand dollars for unpaid interest. So he
Speaker 1: he got like you said, no, he got one point
Speaker 1: one million dollars in appearance and speaking fees for things
Speaker 1: that he apparently never actually did, and then he paid
Speaker 1: the money back. But that's not enough to statisfy the
Speaker 1: state yet. Also, it's very damaging to the people who
Speaker 1: just you know, work with or at this charity, right
Speaker 1: like we everybody's been in these situations before. I would
Speaker 1: I would hazard or some version of this where you
Speaker 1: are part of the bigger organization and the organization or
Speaker 1: some high high level person in that organization does something terrible,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like there are plenty of
Speaker 1: members of the military who cheer some terrible news about
Speaker 1: something awful happening, and they're thinking, oh great, are people
Speaker 1: going to associate me with this? Now I'm just you know,
Speaker 1: like I'm the guy who does the paperwork to make
Speaker 1: sure the ice cream shows up on time, and now
Speaker 1: I'm associated with war criminals. Like it's we have to
Speaker 1: be careful not to lump everybody unfairly into the same
Speaker 1: bag of badgers. But but Nol, this doesn't doesn't look
Speaker 1: great for Brett. Looks like you knew what he was
Speaker 1: doing and he did it on purpose. It does look
Speaker 1: that way. But again I'm skeptical as to to what
Speaker 1: degree a person at that level, you know, is going
Speaker 1: to truly suffer other than just in the court of
Speaker 1: public opinion. Like I have a hard time believing they're
Speaker 1: going to take away all of his yachts, maybe just
Speaker 1: like one um, you know. And again it's like it's
Speaker 1: it's an insult to say, you know, the right, you're Ben,
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right about that article from October of last
Speaker 1: year when he paid back six grand UM. But he basically,
Speaker 1: you know, what he did amounted to an interest free loan. No,
Speaker 1: you don't get those. I don't care who you are,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean it's like that, that's that's not
Speaker 1: how the world works. And especially when you're like taking
Speaker 1: it out of the coffers of you know, folks who
Speaker 1: could really use it. This is for like food assistance,
Speaker 1: you know, things that we know of as like like
Speaker 1: the SNAP program here in Georgia, where folks that are
Speaker 1: you know, maybe young parents, you know, need a little help.
Speaker 1: I was on food stamps when I was a very
Speaker 1: new parent, UM, and it was incredibly valuable to have that,
Speaker 1: you know, Uh it was and and and obviously things
Speaker 1: progressed in my career kind of you know, bloomed and
Speaker 1: things like that. But I was a very young parent
Speaker 1: and it was really scary my career. I didn't make
Speaker 1: very much money at the time, and you know, we
Speaker 1: were living with my mom and it was something that
Speaker 1: was very helpful and we used it. Um and and
Speaker 1: this is you know, and there are people that were
Speaker 1: even way less fortunate than we were, Like we had
Speaker 1: a place to live for free and all of that,
Speaker 1: but like there are folks who were an inch from
Speaker 1: being on the street and who need this money to
Speaker 1: to stay afloat and to take care of their kids.
Speaker 1: And this is you know, again some of the reporting
Speaker 1: that I read, you know, out of Mississippi. And I
Speaker 1: apologize that the reporter's name is escaping me. I heard her,
Speaker 1: uh do an interview on NPR where she was talking
Speaker 1: about speaking to some of the people, you know, residents
Speaker 1: and saying how they weren't surprised about any of this,
Speaker 1: because there seems to be an attitude in the reception
Speaker 1: that the government in Mississippi doesn't really care about its
Speaker 1: poorest citizens, um, that they're all in it to enrich themselves,
Speaker 1: and that they feel like welfare is something that is uh,
Speaker 1: some sort of commy thing, you know. I mean, it
Speaker 1: really does have this very condescending attitude towards the idea
Speaker 1: of welfare, which is a way of like justifying these crimes.
Speaker 1: And again, even everyone in the Department of Human Services
Speaker 1: surely not in on this. I'm not saying that, but
Speaker 1: at the highest levels that kind of attitude trickles down. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know, the timing is so weird because it
Speaker 1: was asking some folks were working with us on a
Speaker 1: few secret projects. Uh, some of whom were from Mississippi. Right,
Speaker 1: mentioned West earlier and said, well, what's this. Isn't there
Speaker 1: a stereotype about corruption in Mississippi? And the guy looked
Speaker 1: at me and he said, it's not a stereotype. And
Speaker 1: now all the and then this story, which has been
Speaker 1: developing for a while, as you said, no, this story
Speaker 1: breaks and I'm starting to wonder there's a question for
Speaker 1: our conspiracy realist in Mississippi. How corrupt do you find
Speaker 1: the government at a local or state level? Is this
Speaker 1: just business as usual, this way of moving money? I mean,
Speaker 1: I believe Brett's daughter plays volleyball at the same university, right,
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean it was obviously a nepotistic kind
Speaker 1: of move. You know, So is this unusual of Mississippi?
Speaker 1: Is my question. I don't know the answer. What do
Speaker 1: you guys think? All I'm hearing in this whole story
Speaker 1: is the spoken word to police State by Dead Press.
Speaker 1: Do you remember that the ring in your ear at all? Yes,
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't tell you the whole thing, but
Speaker 1: it's something like, you know they're cutting the welfare, knowing
Speaker 1: damn well, when you cut the welfare, people are going
Speaker 1: to do crime. Like this, this concept like if it's
Speaker 1: being if that kind of move, that money is being
Speaker 1: misused or just you know, corruption is is killing that
Speaker 1: money and those funds, than way more problems are going
Speaker 1: to happen, and in the end it's probably gonna end
Speaker 1: up putting more money in the law enforcement communities. Right. Oh, Matt,
Speaker 1: you're bringing back memories. Uh, we're talking about the very
Speaker 1: end of the song. And you don't have to like
Speaker 1: hip hop to understand this message. It's something to think about. Uh.
Speaker 1: This is Fred Hampton and an unidentified speaker at the
Speaker 1: very end of police State by Dead Pres. I am
Speaker 1: a revolutionary and you're gonna have to keep on saying
Speaker 1: that you're gonna have to say that I am the proletariat,
Speaker 1: I am the people. I am not the pig. Juliani,
Speaker 1: you are foolish and anybody that's down with you, you
Speaker 1: could make things better for us. And you're cutting the
Speaker 1: welfare knowing damn well, when you cut the welfare, a
Speaker 1: person is gonna do crime. Truth. Yeah, Greig, bummer, but good,
Speaker 1: good segue out of this story, um, because you're absolutely right,
Speaker 1: you know. And then, especially in a situation where so
Speaker 1: many are on the verge of homelessness. Um, the levels
Speaker 1: of poverty are so extreme that you know that cutting
Speaker 1: off that that helping hand really would could be the
Speaker 1: thing that drives somebody, um to that you know, terrible
Speaker 1: next stage of poverty, which is you know, being on
Speaker 1: the streets. And then if you're in charge, it's a
Speaker 1: lot easier to justify, well, why do we give money
Speaker 1: to the to these folks when they're just gonna you know,
Speaker 1: do crimes. But it's a self perpetuating cycle, like you said,
Speaker 1: And then it's just a way of justifying a police state.
Speaker 1: And that's not good for anybody except for the handful
Speaker 1: of rich white people at the top. So take a break.
Speaker 1: We're back with another piece of strange news, and we
Speaker 1: have returned. I we're gonna do a little bit of
Speaker 1: a multimedia experience here. Want to share some part of
Speaker 1: that multimedia experience experience, but we'll leave it in. That's
Speaker 1: Dr bankman. Everybody, uh, please send your fan mail as appropriate.
Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna play just this is just a
Speaker 1: few seconds, Matt Nold, fellow conspiracy realists. And I know
Speaker 1: I had asked you guys not to check, but you
Speaker 1: may have already heard this, So play along at home.
Speaker 1: What do you think this is? Goat? It sounds like
Speaker 1: one of those like kids toys that when you turn
Speaker 1: upside down and makes a move sound like if a
Speaker 1: cow uh whoa. I don't know, Matt. It sounds like
Speaker 1: a very unsuccessful attempt to evacuate a bowel after about
Speaker 1: six pizzas, right, so you just I can see it, dude.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a really really great short commercial. It's
Speaker 1: just a bathroom door slightly ajar. You hear these and
Speaker 1: then uh, and then it fades out and it just
Speaker 1: goes emodium, right or just fiber. It's like one of
Speaker 1: those got but for fiber. Yeah. Yeah, So this is
Speaker 1: an experience. This is pulled from an actor who posted
Speaker 1: this online, but he's not playing a character. It's his
Speaker 1: real life. He's on an American Airlines flight and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, the intercom appears to go nuts with
Speaker 1: someone moaning groaning. You know, either they're constipated, maybe it's
Speaker 1: a sex thing. No one's really sure. As a matter
Speaker 1: of fact, before we went on air, guest producer Max
Speaker 1: free Train Williams hit me with the perfect phrase to
Speaker 1: describe this noise. Max, what is it? Is it grunching? Girking? Uh?
Speaker 1: Max has told us girking, and I think that's a
Speaker 1: perfect phrase for what's happening. There is a ghostly gurkher
Speaker 1: on this American Airlines flight. This story takes off plane jokes. Uh,
Speaker 1: this story takes off because people are mystified, and you
Speaker 1: can hear the flight attendant or one of the flight
Speaker 1: attendants on this uh weird, weird leg of the journey saying, look,
Speaker 1: we don't know what it is. No one's happy about it. Uh.
Speaker 1: The original the original guess was that somewhat had hacked
Speaker 1: into the WiFi system and through that have been able
Speaker 1: to just play weird stuff on the intercom. First, we've
Speaker 1: all started flying more often. I fly a lot. Well
Speaker 1: that we fly a lot. Uh not to no, I
Speaker 1: got a road trips through my soul. It's true as
Speaker 1: long as it's not a Honda Odyssey. What planes are
Speaker 1: weird and things are just getting weirder. Um. No one
Speaker 1: was hurt in this situation, but there was definitely uh
Speaker 1: some girking and it went on for the duration of
Speaker 1: flight all the way from l A to Dallas. Uh.
Speaker 1: The guy who posted this, Emmerson Collins, described it as
Speaker 1: quote somewhere between an orgasm and vomiting. Um. I bring
Speaker 1: this up because I originally liked the idea of a
Speaker 1: haunted airplane, even though it's very hard to prove whether
Speaker 1: or not, and afterlife exists much less ghost. But okay,
Speaker 1: what would be this like? Is that like if a
Speaker 1: spirit left a body and was on its way up,
Speaker 1: I guess because spirits go up right and every everybody
Speaker 1: knows that it's on its way up, and then it
Speaker 1: like got caught in in the engine, or maybe he
Speaker 1: got caught it got sucked in the engine, or maybe
Speaker 1: got just stuck inside the plane somehow. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: I have Spirit Airlines and so she because every one
Speaker 1: of their flights is haunted. Thing is it's not just
Speaker 1: school spirit, you know what I mean? Uh yeah, that's
Speaker 1: was there something trapped in there? I mean, we do
Speaker 1: know that there are animals that, like, like the screaming goats,
Speaker 1: that can reproduce something very close to a human sounding yell.
Speaker 1: You guys remember the screaming goats? Like, how can I forget?
Speaker 1: It's steered into my memory. We're in this information bubble
Speaker 1: and the weirdest things are normal to us now, right, Like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, screaming goats, totally totally nasty customers. Well this, um,
Speaker 1: this has an interesting explanation. First, people were saying, you know,
Speaker 1: it got hacked, right, and all sorts of things can
Speaker 1: be hacked in this the age of the Internet of Things.
Speaker 1: But American Airlines clapped back at that rumor and said, quote,
Speaker 1: the p A systems on board our aircraft are hardwired
Speaker 1: and there is no external access. Following the initial report,
Speaker 1: our maintenance team thoroughly inspected the aircraft and the p
Speaker 1: A system and determine the sounds were caused by a
Speaker 1: mechanical issue with the p A amplifier. I don't know
Speaker 1: why I went into cool guy voice, let's keep it,
Speaker 1: which raises volume of the p A system when the
Speaker 1: engines running, said American Airlines in a statement, presumably while
Speaker 1: wearing like a Hawaiian shirt that's a chill out on
Speaker 1: the back. Wait what they're saying that the p A
Speaker 1: system doesn't it's a closed system, so there's no external access.
Speaker 1: The intercoms are hardwired. Yeah, but I mean it's it's
Speaker 1: a what is that closed system? And the audio if
Speaker 1: you know how to there are ways, uh, if you're
Speaker 1: a hockey type and you know how audio circuit flow
Speaker 1: works or signal flow rather, it would be difficult, but
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you you could conceivably convert a
Speaker 1: headphone output to an input. There's there's ways of doing right, right,
Speaker 1: but those are all those are kind of like analog ways,
Speaker 1: right Like you would you would be physically hacking at
Speaker 1: that point. I just you would have to You would
Speaker 1: have to get access to like you know, the area
Speaker 1: where the master control kind of like you know, touch
Speaker 1: pad is probably you'd have to be you know, and
Speaker 1: you know how hard it is to sneak around on planes.
Speaker 1: They won't let you back on a plane if you
Speaker 1: leave your wallet you know, it's like, oh, there's so
Speaker 1: many specifics around and like everything's you know, so like move, move, move,
Speaker 1: and get to your seat. It would be very difficult
Speaker 1: to do. But I'm not saying it's impossible. It also
Speaker 1: could have been some prank sturry maintenance person you know,
Speaker 1: or who knows, But it means somebody whoever is making
Speaker 1: that sound is on board or was on board and
Speaker 1: set some kind of system up to play it through
Speaker 1: the p A right. Also, like you know, I could
Speaker 1: think of more um instantly recognizable pranks than just just
Speaker 1: like a cookie sound. Yeah, you're just like you know,
Speaker 1: American Airlines. You know, there's some kind of like you know,
Speaker 1: protest or something. This is. Yeah, it's a very even
Speaker 1: in terms of it just the audio message, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, if they really wanted to like hichack
Speaker 1: the system and you know, stick one to the company,
Speaker 1: there there there are more direct ways of doing it.
Speaker 1: This just seems like a weird miss out that could
Speaker 1: be explained away than the way that it was. But
Speaker 1: I don't completely buy that explanation either. So right, okay,
Speaker 1: here here's another way. We're just off the top here,
Speaker 1: Uh okay, it's a hot mic situation. There's someone gherkin
Speaker 1: in the bathroom, whatever that means to you, and they
Speaker 1: don't know that their live on the intercom. That's so
Speaker 1: you always have to be quiet in public restrooms. You
Speaker 1: don't know. That's a little life lesson from your friends
Speaker 1: and stuff. They don't want you to know. It does
Speaker 1: not sound like a mechanical issue. Really, it does sound
Speaker 1: like a dude moaning, you know, in a hilarious way.
Speaker 1: I have to say that if it was a pilot
Speaker 1: that was girking off, he'd probably sound a lot more
Speaker 1: lack less, like oh uh and I'm done. Oh so
Speaker 1: this is uh so, I'm gonna be honest. Uh this
Speaker 1: this explanation, it seems a little iffy to me, but
Speaker 1: we're not the experts here. We want to hear your take.
Speaker 1: I'm keeping this one brief, just gonna be completely honest.
Speaker 1: I was looking for a fun story. I'm going through
Speaker 1: a very dark time right now. I know there are
Speaker 1: other much more important things happening in the news, but
Speaker 1: sometimes you take a break for a sound gag. We've
Speaker 1: got a lot of a lot of pilots in the audience.
Speaker 1: We've got a lot of mechanics, a lot of aerospace engineers.
Speaker 1: What could be making this noise? Max, please play it
Speaker 1: one more time, just to get us to the break
Speaker 1: and single. Like at home, we also coined a new expression,
Speaker 1: girking off. Yeah, thanks to Max Williams. So okay, so Max,
Speaker 1: please play that sound cue, take us to break and
Speaker 1: we'll be back with another piece of strange news, which
Speaker 1: is much more serious. All right, serious time, everybody, welcome back.
Speaker 1: Biogen Biogen. Biogen is that like like energy drink. It's
Speaker 1: a pharmaceutical company based at that she was like a
Speaker 1: biological Jennifer. Ah, yeah, it's a biogen. I can't fly.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Sorry, I don't know why. Okay, bio Jenny.
Speaker 1: This really great company, guys. They just made a huge
Speaker 1: splash in the headlines because they are about to be
Speaker 1: in production for an Alzheimer's drug that in their clinical
Speaker 1: trials showed a twenty seven percent increase in a reduction
Speaker 1: of alzheimer symptoms compared to a placebo, and their stock
Speaker 1: just went. So there, that's a positive bloop, by the way,
Speaker 1: watching no no, it went and a very expensive stock too.
Speaker 1: I think it was almost two hundred dollars per year
Speaker 1: or something crazy. Um. But they're in the news for that.
Speaker 1: They are also in the news because they very recently
Speaker 1: settled a lawsuit that has been dogging them since I believe,
Speaker 1: gosh twenty in the mids. This lawsuit has been dogging them, um.
Speaker 1: And they settled for nine hundred million dollars. And as
Speaker 1: we've talked about on this show, nine million dollars is
Speaker 1: the most money you can think about until you get
Speaker 1: to the billions. And the billions are inconceivable for most
Speaker 1: of us, but for a pharmaceutical company, it's not that crazy.
Speaker 1: Dropping the old with a figure like that nin million,
Speaker 1: just make it a solid bill You know what's a
Speaker 1: hundred mill between friends? Nine hundred million dollars? Okay, So
Speaker 1: let's talk about why they paid nine million dollars. Well,
Speaker 1: this lawsuit that they've been a part of stems from
Speaker 1: a whistleblower who alleged that Biogen was improperly, let's say,
Speaker 1: influencing healthcare professionals into prescribing their medications, specifically for multiple sclerosis.
Speaker 1: They have three medications. I'm gonna try and say them.
Speaker 1: You're ready for this. I have an x to Cibri
Speaker 1: and Tank federa beautiful great create attention to this uh
Speaker 1: double speed list of side effects? Yes, yes, um okay,
Speaker 1: so let me give you some of the details as
Speaker 1: according to the Department of Justice. UH, they put out
Speaker 1: a press release on September this past Monday. As we're recording,
Speaker 1: they point out that the whistleblower's name a former Biogen employee,
Speaker 1: Michael Bodenac Boak, and he said that Biogen quote paid
Speaker 1: kickbacks to physicians to induce them, I like that word,
Speaker 1: induce them into prescribing the company's multiple sclerosis drugs. According
Speaker 1: to this person's complaint, between two thousand nine and two
Speaker 1: thousand fourteen, they offered and paid renumeration in the form
Speaker 1: of speaker honor area, So a small usually rather small
Speaker 1: amount of money that's paid to somebody to come speak,
Speaker 1: unless you're like Hillary Clinton, and then you get lots
Speaker 1: of money for an honorarium, uh, speaker training fees, consulting fees,
Speaker 1: and meals. Two people who went to these special events
Speaker 1: that Biogen put on h called like speaker program speaker events, right,
Speaker 1: and UH. Essentially the suit is saying that Biogen and
Speaker 1: properly use this money to influence these people and they
Speaker 1: paid nine hundred million dollars for it, but just making
Speaker 1: a solid bill. Well, what's what's a hundred million between friends?
Speaker 1: Sorry I made that joke already, can continue, excuse me.
Speaker 1: And like most pharmaceutical companies we've talked about on this
Speaker 1: show before, and chemical companies and oil companies, they did
Speaker 1: not admit any wrongdoing. Right, here's here's a bunch of money. Now,
Speaker 1: let's let's put this to bed. Okay, we don't have
Speaker 1: to talk about this anymore. I'm sorry that you feel
Speaker 1: an apology is necessary. Here's some money. Good day to you. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: it's basically legalized hush money, you know. I mean you
Speaker 1: think of the idea of hush money is usually pay
Speaker 1: it under the table. But I mean this is about
Speaker 1: as above the table as it can be. And it's
Speaker 1: yeah it this we we bought our way out of this.
Speaker 1: You know, it's no no contend today. You guys know that, right,
Speaker 1: that's just like what you're saying. Look, I'm not saying
Speaker 1: anybody did anything your honor, but I do not wish
Speaker 1: to disagree with you no contender and yolo, because we're
Speaker 1: just gonna go on living our best Pharmaceutical life once
Speaker 1: for when I was a kid. It's just it's the
Speaker 1: sketchiest thing. I mean. I understand that it has to
Speaker 1: the plea of no contests. I understand why it exists.
Speaker 1: It just to me, it always sounds clearly all three
Speaker 1: of us had to plead nolo at some point. It's
Speaker 1: a very common plea to make, but it just just
Speaker 1: sounds so sketchy. It's like up there with stamp fraud,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like I'm not saying anything happened,
Speaker 1: but I'm not disagreeing with what you said. You know.
Speaker 1: It's such a let's get into what I disagree with
Speaker 1: with some of this and what I feel is wrong, Okay,
Speaker 1: And I think I just want to see what you
Speaker 1: guys think. So that's nine million dollars that they paid. Okay,
Speaker 1: they are going to pay the United States eight hundred
Speaker 1: and forty four million dollars, and then they're gonna pay
Speaker 1: fifty six million dollars to fifteen states that were harmed
Speaker 1: by their whatever they did there. But how weird is it,
Speaker 1: guys that they got in trouble for making a bunch
Speaker 1: of money and now they just have to pay the
Speaker 1: United States a fee of a lot of money because
Speaker 1: they did something wrong, but like, who was harmed in
Speaker 1: this hang on? Hey, hey they didn't say they did
Speaker 1: anything wrong, No, low bro. But like, but like, I guess,
Speaker 1: it's just so strange to me that you'd have to
Speaker 1: pay that much money to the government as in like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, Um, it's not it's not like a bribe.
Speaker 1: But it's weird because in a way, guys, this pharmaceutical
Speaker 1: company is kind of doing business the way you do
Speaker 1: business when you've got a private health care system, because
Speaker 1: how else do you let the health care professionals out
Speaker 1: there know that my new drug is on the market
Speaker 1: and you should subscribe, you should give it out to
Speaker 1: people who need help in this specific area. These are
Speaker 1: drugs for multiple sclerosis, right, These are like probably really
Speaker 1: important drugs that are available for people who have MS.
Speaker 1: It's not like some kind of pain medication, right or
Speaker 1: something like that, where like that to me feels more
Speaker 1: egregious when you're just trying to sell that stuff like crazy.
Speaker 1: This is more like awareness. You're you're they're trying to
Speaker 1: do marketing, and they're doing it through these speakers events.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't want to have Biogen's back
Speaker 1: in this, but it does feel like this is one
Speaker 1: of the better ways you get word out about your stuff.
Speaker 1: What do you guys think? It's tricky, Man, it's tricky,
Speaker 1: and you're raising great points. I mean, also, we should say,
Speaker 1: I'm sure there are a lot of people are thinking
Speaker 1: about this as we're listening at home. We should say
Speaker 1: that this is not the first time Biogen had to
Speaker 1: pay up for allegations of shady shenanigans. And you know
Speaker 1: they stayed they stayed in no low bro throughout all
Speaker 1: of these Uh. Just like I'm not saying I did it,
Speaker 1: but I'm not disagreeing with you. Here's some money. You'll
Speaker 1: be good. Now you're good, be good. Uh. The question
Speaker 1: is essentially, is this dribery? Right? Is this how the
Speaker 1: game is played? How the pharmaceutical profit sausage is made? Okay,
Speaker 1: it's been a long day, folk, So the question like,
Speaker 1: pharmaceutical sausage, the best grade, pharmaceutical grade sausage. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: our new if podcasting doesn't work out, we're selling only
Speaker 1: pharmaceutical grade food stuffs. So this is this is strange
Speaker 1: because it goes into the idea of what a fair
Speaker 1: market rate is for consultation or speaking fees, which I
Speaker 1: was also is sticky because speaking fees are a great
Speaker 1: way to laund your money until you get caught. But
Speaker 1: they're not really laundering money right there, trying to grease
Speaker 1: the wheels such that when someone has a condition like
Speaker 1: multiple sclerosis and they see a doctor about it, that
Speaker 1: doctor has Biogen and their products front of mind. Now
Speaker 1: that I think that becomes unethical when let's say a
Speaker 1: hypothetical doctor has like, is pretty sure there's another medication
Speaker 1: that is cheaper and would work just as well, or
Speaker 1: there's a medication that might even work better, and because
Speaker 1: of the money they've been paid, they go with a
Speaker 1: bio product. Anyway, that seems like that's very dangerous. That's
Speaker 1: also kind of like violation of the Hippocratic oath to
Speaker 1: begin with. But you're right, well, there there is an
Speaker 1: anti an anti kickback what do they call it statute,
Speaker 1: an anti kickback statute that states you can't do that, right,
Speaker 1: exactly what you're describing, ben You can't pay someone to
Speaker 1: have a lesser medication prescribed because you got money from
Speaker 1: that person, right, Um, that makes sense, and that's what
Speaker 1: Biogen is in violation of at least according to this lawsuit,
Speaker 1: and that's why they had to pay all that money.
Speaker 1: But to me, as a pharmaceutical company, you can either
Speaker 1: make ads that are excruciating to watch for a viewer,
Speaker 1: right that show up Hulu and where YouTube or wherever
Speaker 1: else illegal in most countries by the way, huh us
Speaker 1: and New Zealand. Yes, Or you do that thing that
Speaker 1: I've seen happen we've talked about on the show it
Speaker 1: for where some rep for Biogen or whatever viser name
Speaker 1: your company comes into your local doctor's office and like
Speaker 1: buys lunch for the whole crew there that day, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's like, what, okay, Oh no, they just brought cookies.
Speaker 1: They didn't buy us anything. They just gave us some cookies.
Speaker 1: There's no there's no monetary value here, like okay. Or
Speaker 1: why are pharmaceutical reps often This is something a friend
Speaker 1: of mine the medical community point out. Why are pharmaceutical
Speaker 1: reps often what would be considered attractive people and highly
Speaker 1: paid and highly paid? Yeah, if you've seen the series
Speaker 1: on Hulu, I think dope sick about you know, Purdue
Speaker 1: and the way they essentially incentivized their salespeople to move products,
Speaker 1: I mean, which is what sales people do. But they
Speaker 1: did so by downplaying the addictive nature of oxygon and
Speaker 1: essentially falsifying documents you know, from the FDA or the
Speaker 1: very least, greasing some wheels to make the the studies
Speaker 1: tend more in their favor. It's pretty gross. And yeah,
Speaker 1: it is a very like singles kind of meat market
Speaker 1: kind of vibe with these with these young hot pharma executives.
Speaker 1: It's it's weird. It's a weird world. So then of
Speaker 1: course this is the part of the conversation where we
Speaker 1: have to once again say that if you are a
Speaker 1: business and you're doing something unethical or you're doing something criminal,
Speaker 1: and you know that no actual person will get jail time, right,
Speaker 1: you know there will not be a criminal action against you.
Speaker 1: If you can afford the fine, then the then that
Speaker 1: just becomes a cost of doing business, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. Millions a lot for many people, but it's
Speaker 1: not enough to sink a large successful pharmaceutical company. Guys.
Speaker 1: By John, I just jumped over to the markets. Take
Speaker 1: a look at the markets. How are they doing with
Speaker 1: the whole bio gen with all this bad press. You know,
Speaker 1: you gotta find having a pay nine hundred million dollars.
Speaker 1: Oh jeez, pal, that's not good. Well, Um, on Tuesday,
Speaker 1: their stock was worth let's see, did an end of
Speaker 1: trading on Tuesday was worth a hundred nineties seven dollars
Speaker 1: in forty and eighty one cents. On the opening of trading,
Speaker 1: their stock was worth two hundred and seventies seven dollars
Speaker 1: and eighty three cents. Guys, that's a huge jump in
Speaker 1: stock price. And I was telling you the settlement just
Speaker 1: happened this week as we're recording this. Uh, their stock
Speaker 1: went up on Wednesday. The Boston Herald article that came
Speaker 1: out that I read about this for the first time,
Speaker 1: came out on the that's on Monday, and then their
Speaker 1: stock price jumped up that much on Wednesday because that
Speaker 1: Alzheimer's drawing I mentioned at the top, which is called
Speaker 1: La canam Ab by the way, Uh, it's estimated to
Speaker 1: be worth between six and eight billion dollars. So in
Speaker 1: the end, because of our for profit system of healthcare
Speaker 1: of all you know, pharmaceuticals and all this stuff, this
Speaker 1: company that does wrongdoing at least according to the law,
Speaker 1: can see massive profits because it's got another drug coming out,
Speaker 1: and they're probably going to do some kind of marketing
Speaker 1: to let everybody know, unless they don't have to now
Speaker 1: because it's getting pressed because of the financials. This podcast
Speaker 1: is brought to you by Pharmaceuticus Pharmaceuticals. UH talk to
Speaker 1: your doctor about girconium today. Following side effects illumination global
Speaker 1: unlimited strange sounds emanating from airlines. Oh sorry, sorry, fellow
Speaker 1: folks suffering from missa pnia. But this this is interesting, Matt.
Speaker 1: I think you point out something quite lustrative at the
Speaker 1: end here where you're saying, yeah, the stocks, the stocks
Speaker 1: continue to rise, and again there are a lot of
Speaker 1: researchers who are doing incredibly important work with these companies.
Speaker 1: We're not I don't think we're dinging them at all.
Speaker 1: Fellow nerds were on your team. But when you get
Speaker 1: to the high level moves here like a Sackler family
Speaker 1: right then you see the law changes. There's no way
Speaker 1: around it. The law is different for entities functioning at
Speaker 1: this level, and that's horrific. I I know. The more
Speaker 1: to say, it just freaks me out. I'm glad the
Speaker 1: Alzheimer's drug does look to be hopeful. That would be amazing.
Speaker 1: I don't care who develops it, developed something for that
Speaker 1: and I would be happy. And I think that's what
Speaker 1: how the market is reacting or why they're reacting. Um,
Speaker 1: all right, guys, that's it for now. I think we're
Speaker 1: gonna end on the bio flab. What is it? Bio maap,
Speaker 1: Bio Graham biograpical Jennifer biological Jennifer. Yes, we're gonna call
Speaker 1: it a day today. Thank you as always so much
Speaker 1: for tuning in. What is your take on corruption in
Speaker 1: Mississippi or what's your take on small town corruption in general?
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear your stories. Uh what what do
Speaker 1: you think is making all those noises auto plane? And Uh,
Speaker 1: what's your take on the idea of corruption in the
Speaker 1: pharmaceutical industry. We can't wait to hear from you. We
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