Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stephone
Speaker 1: Never Told You production of iHeart Radio. And today we
Speaker 1: have a special guest friend of the show and a
Speaker 1: fellow I hearder Enna Yea, thank you for that. Can
Speaker 1: you introduce yourself for our listeners or reintroduced? I guess yes, Hi,
Speaker 1: I'm anna host n I'm a managing executive producer here
Speaker 1: at iHeart Radio and co host of the Ethnically Ambidios
Speaker 1: podcast and producer of a bunch of podcasts. I'm sure
Speaker 1: you've heard, like Daily's Guys last culture A stays this
Speaker 1: is important, you know, the whole I heeart comedy side.
Speaker 1: That's me indeed. And yes, you we were talking about
Speaker 1: that you were previously on before me, pre pre me
Speaker 1: having the best conversation without me. I'm very sad I
Speaker 1: wasn't a part of that. I just wanted that to
Speaker 1: be known. Yeah, thank you. We can have another conversation conversation.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we're fixing this. And yeah, we've been talking
Speaker 1: about having you on the show for a while because
Speaker 1: you do have this vast amount of experience and titles
Speaker 1: under your professional belt, and we know you are someone
Speaker 1: who has been in the front of and behind the
Speaker 1: scenes of podcasting at all about it and are so
Speaker 1: excited to get your perspective on this very fast changing,
Speaker 1: a fast paced industry. So thank you for coming on.
Speaker 1: Of course, thank you for having me again. I literally
Speaker 1: feel like we've podcast together. Like I feel like I've
Speaker 1: been on this show with you because we've you know,
Speaker 1: actually have podcasted together before in other shows and stuff.
Speaker 1: But I guess you weren't there that first time. In
Speaker 1: my mind you were. That's what's weird. It's like, okay,
Speaker 1: so that's how I like it. Like I've never like
Speaker 1: I was always here. That's the way I wanted to
Speaker 1: be for all of our listeners as well as guests
Speaker 1: that I've always been here even when I wasn't. Samantha
Speaker 1: has always been here. Like I'm the ghost. You're kind
Speaker 1: of a ghost because you're in like a dark background.
Speaker 1: You're just your heads in light. I know, I'm so
Speaker 1: close to the camera too. I was like, I can't
Speaker 1: adjust my my so I'm right up on the screen.
Speaker 1: But yeah, and that's in fact, I was just thinking
Speaker 1: about the fact my first experience with like speaking as
Speaker 1: a podcaster was with you and Sharene and Annie in
Speaker 1: Florida and that was like such a big deal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we were on the whole panel. So this is kind
Speaker 1: of how I got to know the podcasting industry. Honestly,
Speaker 1: you and many of the folks of the California the
Speaker 1: comedy I guess segments are the first people that I
Speaker 1: actually met, even before some of my Atlanta people, which
Speaker 1: I live in Atlanta, which I still think it's funny.
Speaker 1: That's right. We we really took Orlando by storm during
Speaker 1: podcast movement there sure dud the Hilton Lazy River, Oh
Speaker 1: I can't. I tried to my favorite place. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think you had a good experience as opposed to Adie
Speaker 1: and not getting stuck and having like a war story
Speaker 1: coming out of it, going like we're never doing that again.
Speaker 1: Every laughed at that. River employees laughed in our face. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they had to teach us. How did They're like you, okay,
Speaker 1: do you need help? Literally as they are trying to
Speaker 1: clean up around us, We're like, we're stuck. We're sorry.
Speaker 1: That's a whole other show though. Yes, you are one
Speaker 1: of the first faces with Annie as well as um
Speaker 1: like our own producers of podcasting for me, because it
Speaker 1: was such a new thing again. It's been it had
Speaker 1: been around, but it really started cut on fire, Like
Speaker 1: I was like, whoa, these people have jobs careers out
Speaker 1: of this. I say this to any who's been a
Speaker 1: part of every ten years, but still in my mind
Speaker 1: it's so new. But I was really blown away with
Speaker 1: the things that happened within podcasting and what kind of
Speaker 1: field it is and how there's so many layers within
Speaker 1: podcasting and there it's a big industry, but it seems
Speaker 1: so small to me because you often think of the
Speaker 1: indie podcasts that have the host that edit themselves and
Speaker 1: then tried to publish it on their own, but when
Speaker 1: you look at the bigger picture about how much money
Speaker 1: is being made, and so I wanted to get into
Speaker 1: that with you, kind of like talking about the industry
Speaker 1: and what you've seen and how you think it needs
Speaker 1: to change or what are the good things in it?
Speaker 1: Before we started there, How did you get into podcasting?
Speaker 1: I got into podcasting in twent around then, um because
Speaker 1: I was working in live comedy producing. I was producing
Speaker 1: a lot of live shows for stand up and variety
Speaker 1: and improv around Los Angeles, and I met comedian Dave Hauntsberger,
Speaker 1: who is the best shout out Dave David you guys
Speaker 1: my nome as David Huntsberger. I call him Dave No deal.
Speaker 1: But he asked me, He's like, wow, you seem really
Speaker 1: interested in like working in comedy, Like are you interested
Speaker 1: in podcasting? And I was like yes, I took a
Speaker 1: bunch of like audio courses in college, so I'm just
Speaker 1: really into like editing and working like with software and
Speaker 1: you know, I've done that my whole life. And uh,
Speaker 1: he was like, do you want to intern on a
Speaker 1: podcast I have at Earwolf called Professor blast Off, which
Speaker 1: was hosted by him, Tig Nataro, and Kyle Dunnigan. And
Speaker 1: I said yes. So that was like my first foray
Speaker 1: into podcast. I started in turning for their show at
Speaker 1: ear Wolf, which was a fun experience, really cool. I
Speaker 1: got to sit in on recordings with like so many
Speaker 1: cool people like Molly ere in Wolf from like sixteen
Speaker 1: Candles and like, you know, a bunch of like really
Speaker 1: cool people like that, like Diablo Cody. Like I was
Speaker 1: like WHOA, Like this is cool. And I also really
Speaker 1: liked Professor blast Off because it was just a fun show. Um,
Speaker 1: And so that was like my first step into podcasting
Speaker 1: kind of like watching how it gets made, uh, kind
Speaker 1: of seeing the background of it a little, and then um,
Speaker 1: from there, like as I gained more experience, I started
Speaker 1: producing other comedians podcasts basically, and then I just like
Speaker 1: kind of went from there really took off. Now look
Speaker 1: at me, But you started huge with Earwolf because I remember,
Speaker 1: like one of the first podcasts I knew of outside
Speaker 1: of how Stuff Wars like stuff you should know was
Speaker 1: Comedy Bang Bang, which was signed onto ear Wolf at
Speaker 1: that point in time. Let's which that's a pretty big
Speaker 1: that worked for because it Wolf is kind of like
Speaker 1: along the lines of one of the first past networks,
Speaker 1: early comedy. I mean that was Comedy Bang Bang was
Speaker 1: one of the first podcasts I knew about its way
Speaker 1: and I would listen to and then it was like
Speaker 1: cool to be in the ear Wolf offices and like
Speaker 1: see like Scott Ackerman walk by and be like whoa,
Speaker 1: And now my podcast with him, he guests on my shows.
Speaker 1: It's been like full circle. It's very surreal times when
Speaker 1: we were like, wow, so cool. I'm exhausted. What can
Speaker 1: I say, I'm exhausted. I don't like that is fair.
Speaker 1: But so you've been you've seen this industry from when
Speaker 1: it was kind of like, you know, burgeoning into what
Speaker 1: it is now, which is I have a game with
Speaker 1: Samantha where I'm like, oh, I love critiquing podcast and
Speaker 1: like movies and TV because I still rarely get to
Speaker 1: do that, like all my friends get to do that.
Speaker 1: But I'm like a podcasting is now like a choke
Speaker 1: and TV, I know, and it's hilarious. The ones who
Speaker 1: do it well do it real well, you know, And
Speaker 1: you're like, yes, we're curious if you want to talk about, um,
Speaker 1: how you've seen it change, Like we recently did an
Speaker 1: episode on you know, there's still some real issues with
Speaker 1: diversity and podcasting and how it's still like a lot
Speaker 1: of white men largely doing podcasting. Um, is that something
Speaker 1: that you have seen, you have seen change? What are
Speaker 1: your thoughts around that? Yeah, you know, I mean I
Speaker 1: felt like for me, it was when it like kind
Speaker 1: of blew up, and I guess like I felt like
Speaker 1: it was a lot of the same stuff that we
Speaker 1: were hearing, Like it was a lot of true crime.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously Cereal, Sarah Kanegg's cereal like popped off
Speaker 1: the like true crime sort of spree if you will,
Speaker 1: pun and kind of of like, you know, like that
Speaker 1: sort of genre of podcasting. So I wasn't like everyone's like, oh,
Speaker 1: we should be investigating, we should be investigating crimes too.
Speaker 1: In my opinion, there's a bit of a I have
Speaker 1: a bit of like a sort of ethics issue with that,
Speaker 1: of like it's one thing to be like investigating like
Speaker 1: eight decades old crime, like what happened with odd Nan Side,
Speaker 1: which is now once again relevant in the news because
Speaker 1: Oddnan just got out. But I feel like it almost
Speaker 1: went too far where always some people were like, this
Speaker 1: crime is happening in real time and we're going to
Speaker 1: solve it, and you're like, whoa, You're a podcaster, you
Speaker 1: know you have to be like, let's just you know,
Speaker 1: step on the break. So like that went from like
Speaker 1: zero to a hundred. So I have kind of my
Speaker 1: own feelings about that. I feel like, you know, there's
Speaker 1: there really should be a line when it comes to
Speaker 1: a podcasting, and there's a certain network that should tone
Speaker 1: it down. But then you know, we saw a lot
Speaker 1: of very similar ideas because people would see one idea
Speaker 1: and be like that's a hit. Let's all try and
Speaker 1: recreate that idea, whether it be like a news podcast
Speaker 1: or it be like a politics podcast, or even just
Speaker 1: like very sort of like a name things of like
Speaker 1: what my daily routine is or something like that. You know,
Speaker 1: these sort of like ideas I felt like kept bubbling
Speaker 1: up and people were always just trying to do them
Speaker 1: better than the last person. And so it became a
Speaker 1: lot of podcasts that were basically the same podcast competing
Speaker 1: to be number one, right, whether that be in comedy,
Speaker 1: you know, news, science, like money, like so many like
Speaker 1: investing podcasts came up, and you were right, like a
Speaker 1: lot of these were hosted by white people, and for me,
Speaker 1: I was kind of like okay, like we get it.
Speaker 1: You know, like it's a lot, but we get it.
Speaker 1: Which is like why I wanted to start my podcast
Speaker 1: ethnically because because I was like, I feel like nobody
Speaker 1: really wants to talk about the Middle East, um, which
Speaker 1: is sad because it exists, and people always just like
Speaker 1: look down on it in a way of like it's
Speaker 1: so sad. They just want to kill them kill each
Speaker 1: other out there. It's just always war. They're just you know,
Speaker 1: like we tried to help them when we invaded Afghanistan.
Speaker 1: We tried to help them, but you know what, they
Speaker 1: don't even know what's what they need, you know. And
Speaker 1: the Middle East has been like strife with like American uh,
Speaker 1: you know, diabolical interference, if you will, like for years,
Speaker 1: for as far back as we can remember, and we're
Speaker 1: watching it happened, like we literally just watched when it
Speaker 1: went down in Afghanistan, when we tried to leave and
Speaker 1: the Taliban took over, and like people are begging to
Speaker 1: be taken out of there, and we're like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: that's so tough. Anyway, gotta go. Aren't you happy we're leaving?
Speaker 1: And it's like you created this mess, you know. So
Speaker 1: we've watched that for years, generations of you know, just
Speaker 1: unnecessary interference by the US, and I just felt like
Speaker 1: no one really want to talk about it, especially after
Speaker 1: nine eleven, because we'd already become the Middle East had
Speaker 1: become this demonized figure. So like that's one of the
Speaker 1: reasons I want to start my podcast, I think the
Speaker 1: biggest with my co host Shrine Units, because I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't feel like there's any like Middle easterners taking
Speaker 1: the time. I mean, now there is, but like when
Speaker 1: we first started our podcast in I didn't feel like
Speaker 1: people were really talking about it. I felt like it
Speaker 1: was always just like white men reporting the news, and
Speaker 1: there was such always like a very clear viewpoint of
Speaker 1: like it is what it is over there, and it's
Speaker 1: sad and it's tough, and people are dying and welp,
Speaker 1: we tried to help them. And that was like a
Speaker 1: very clear stance I was constantly hearing and I was like, well,
Speaker 1: that's actually not what it is. This has been a
Speaker 1: a land that's been strife with literal just nonsense by
Speaker 1: every other country around it. No one really cares about
Speaker 1: out these people. They just want to like in a way,
Speaker 1: uh tame them as truly horrible as that is, you know,
Speaker 1: like there was no they just saw us truly like
Speaker 1: many other countries that they've colonized, as savages. Like they
Speaker 1: were like, they don't know what they need. So I
Speaker 1: was like, we just need more perspectives from the people
Speaker 1: who are from these places or people who have lived
Speaker 1: these lives, have had these experiences, and like you weren't
Speaker 1: really seeing that in podcasting because people were like you know,
Speaker 1: I mean and as time has gone on and you know,
Speaker 1: we've really started to lean into accepting people. And it's
Speaker 1: been a process in this country, especially like when people
Speaker 1: acknowledging like yes, innocent black men are being killed by
Speaker 1: the police. Okay, like one step, Okay, I'm starting to
Speaker 1: see it now, which is like, you know, everything in
Speaker 1: this country takes years for people to accept. You know,
Speaker 1: Americans are so we're so hard on our own way
Speaker 1: of like no, America is the land of the free,
Speaker 1: nothing would bad would happen here. You come here for opportunity,
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, you come here for opportunity and
Speaker 1: like white supremacy and like racist ideals, you know, like
Speaker 1: that's it's not just opportunity. You have to like form
Speaker 1: to a type of way of life. You have to
Speaker 1: give into white supremacy to gain any sort of like
Speaker 1: respect or like you know, to get anywhere in this
Speaker 1: country because that's what the norm is. That's the status
Speaker 1: quo is like be as white as you can and
Speaker 1: people will respect you exactly. So but I digress, you know,
Speaker 1: like there's a lot um So like I was always
Speaker 1: like we need more, Like it's not just like white
Speaker 1: guys talking about money, true crime or science or the news.
Speaker 1: This world is so much more than that, and there's
Speaker 1: so much more going on that, Like I've always felt
Speaker 1: like we just needed more, and as podcasting has grown,
Speaker 1: we're finally starting to get there. Yeah, start o broken
Speaker 1: isn't number one as much as he got knocked off
Speaker 1: a couple of kind is, but like sometimes he gets
Speaker 1: knocked out a little. It took royalty to get to that.
Speaker 1: But hey, well we'll quote that in quote um, But yeah, no,
Speaker 1: that's absolutely that big conversation is when we're looking at
Speaker 1: podcasting and what it is and how it's growing bigger
Speaker 1: and bigger and bigger and becoming a money maker, and
Speaker 1: a huge money maker at that, who actually owns this content,
Speaker 1: who actually is profiting off this content? Who actually is
Speaker 1: being seen and noticed? Um? And it's typically white men,
Speaker 1: white sis men, and this is who has been gaining
Speaker 1: the bigger ground. And the conversation beyond that is that
Speaker 1: it's very Western centric and that it's just one type
Speaker 1: of point of view and it's just spreading into like
Speaker 1: this is the norm kind of why we see yes
Speaker 1: being white is Bakerrea in China because they have that
Speaker 1: really in their mind. This is this is the supremast
Speaker 1: ideals we want to be there, so therefore we all
Speaker 1: want to be very literally white, because this is that
Speaker 1: standard of rich and being on the hierarchy of things,
Speaker 1: and then trying to realize that this is like the
Speaker 1: Western idea that's been really pushed out there because of colonialization,
Speaker 1: all of those conversations that we've had, and yeah, when
Speaker 1: it comes to the Middle East, we constantly have talked
Speaker 1: about it. It's either in this perspective of yeah, they're
Speaker 1: they're war torn and they're just destroying themselves, or we've
Speaker 1: got to go rescue them because they are heathens, because
Speaker 1: they don't believe what we believe, or some of those things,
Speaker 1: when we know actually the underlying reason is because they
Speaker 1: will have money there as in like resources that the
Speaker 1: U s ontes and have saken faults reasoning to quote
Speaker 1: unquote protect the people there. But that's a whole different
Speaker 1: conversation in itself, and took me a long time to
Speaker 1: go that out for myself growing up in a very
Speaker 1: white household, which we all all talked about. But beyond that,
Speaker 1: we see that again, this is one of those moments
Speaker 1: where we have a moment in this industry. It's fairly
Speaker 1: still new so that we can make a big change,
Speaker 1: and I say we, as in marginalized people can actually
Speaker 1: make a big change and be a part of that
Speaker 1: change as well. Recently we did a Monday Many where
Speaker 1: statistics came out for those who are actually creators with
Speaker 1: the fact that its white creators, only four percent are
Speaker 1: African American only are Latin X and only five percent
Speaker 1: are Asians, and then six percent we don't know. They
Speaker 1: don't say their ethnicity, so that is such a big
Speaker 1: difference in numbers. And then we talk about women and
Speaker 1: men and those non binaries, any of those uh, those
Speaker 1: numbers are all guess what, pretty much baking on the
Speaker 1: cis gender ideals and very binary in itself. Why do
Speaker 1: we need voices like your podcasts and hopefully more podcasts
Speaker 1: where marginalized people are able to tell the stories. Why
Speaker 1: do you think that's important? I think just like learning
Speaker 1: any perspective that's not yours is huge because like, the
Speaker 1: more you understand how other people have to live and
Speaker 1: what they go through, it creates more empathy within you.
Speaker 1: And I think that's like really what we lack in
Speaker 1: America because it's so much of like a get ahead
Speaker 1: sort of mentality, like b number one be successful that
Speaker 1: we don't care about who we step on or you know,
Speaker 1: like push aside to get there. And I think that
Speaker 1: really stems from a lack of empathy and this like
Speaker 1: obsession with capitalism, like we cannot stop. We feel like, oh,
Speaker 1: if you don't work hard, then you're going to be
Speaker 1: the person who's starving, and no one stops to be
Speaker 1: like okay, but like what about the people who are
Speaker 1: actually starving and don't have the opportunities and don't have
Speaker 1: the privilege to get further in life, because systematically we've
Speaker 1: just held them down, you know. And I think we
Speaker 1: have to be listening more to these stories to understand
Speaker 1: why we literally it's to tone it down, like we
Speaker 1: don't need this. There's enough wealth to go around. That's
Speaker 1: like the real the realistically, like you know, and I've
Speaker 1: you know, we've heard this argument of like we need
Speaker 1: to the billionaires don't need that much money obviously to
Speaker 1: be a billionaire, Like you could be a literally you
Speaker 1: could have five hundred million dollars and you could still
Speaker 1: for the most part, live the same life that you're
Speaker 1: living as a billionaire. So literally taking five million of
Speaker 1: your own money and distributing it doesn't change your life
Speaker 1: that much, but it would change so many more people's,
Speaker 1: you know, like just even like conceptually of like just
Speaker 1: have even the slightest bit of empathy to understand what
Speaker 1: people are going through and make it less about you
Speaker 1: as a human being and more about like survival of
Speaker 1: the masses, and like so much can change, Like how
Speaker 1: do you know how much change five million dollars could
Speaker 1: bring to a community of people? Like we need to
Speaker 1: hear people's stories, We need to know what's going on,
Speaker 1: Like we need to understand who is suffering, and why
Speaker 1: take that into consideration and then use our actions Like
Speaker 1: actions speak louder than words. I mean, that's such a
Speaker 1: cliche saying, but it's very true. Like you can be
Speaker 1: like I get it, I see you, and I hear you,
Speaker 1: and it's like okay, And then what it's like improv
Speaker 1: you know, like you know, yes, and like what are
Speaker 1: you gonna do about it? If you hear me and
Speaker 1: see me and see what I'm you know, like, okay,
Speaker 1: now let's do something about it. Let's put you know,
Speaker 1: whether it's put your money where your mouth is or
Speaker 1: just take the steps two try and be a part
Speaker 1: of the solution, like it doesn't you know, us as
Speaker 1: like the regular folks who obviously I'm not a millionaire,
Speaker 1: but like if I can donate here or there, I
Speaker 1: do because like I understand, like I might not be
Speaker 1: giving the most, but I'm giving something, and if we
Speaker 1: all just gave something, it does help. It makes a difference.
Speaker 1: That's why I think it's important. Well, you know, that's
Speaker 1: one of the things, um, that you do for with
Speaker 1: the podcast that I think is really great is that
Speaker 1: you make sure to give a platform for so many
Speaker 1: people who are not able to share their stories or
Speaker 1: share is just their life in general. I just literally
Speaker 1: shared when I was on the podcast with you about
Speaker 1: my experience as being an Asian person in a white
Speaker 1: community and growing up in a conservative town and how
Speaker 1: I've had to like redefine my identity because I've been sold.
Speaker 1: You know, we had that whole big conversation and then
Speaker 1: not that's not a story that's not heard on podcasts,
Speaker 1: but I know, like beyond that, you do that for
Speaker 1: so many other creators and or just people just living
Speaker 1: their life and talking about, yeah, this is my experience
Speaker 1: as a B and C ethnicity or a B and
Speaker 1: C race and this is why it matters for you
Speaker 1: to understand who I am as a person and I
Speaker 1: think and stuff like that is a bigger conversation, is
Speaker 1: that we need to give these open moments to show
Speaker 1: representation because it's also that commonality of like their normal people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh oh, it's not the stereotype that I thought because
Speaker 1: my parents taught me that way, which is like a
Speaker 1: massive systematic problem of like thinking, because like everyone thinks
Speaker 1: a certain way because they've been told to think that
Speaker 1: way for so long. It just takes one person to
Speaker 1: be like, I don't think that's real. Mean, like in
Speaker 1: most families, it rocks the boat if you have one
Speaker 1: person being like, I don't know, Dad, I feel like
Speaker 1: that's like a very narrow minded way of thinking in
Speaker 1: your dad's like how dare you? But that like in
Speaker 1: a weird way, Like just saying that, even if it
Speaker 1: doesn't turn the person to like understand your viewpoint, just
Speaker 1: challenging them a little bit is some interesting thing because
Speaker 1: they do for a second half to think about it,
Speaker 1: and just cracking that sort of thinking process for even
Speaker 1: one second is surprisingly doing something because like now they've
Speaker 1: had a moment of like even if they're in deep
Speaker 1: denial and don't want to give in. They've had that
Speaker 1: moment and you never know it might potentially in the
Speaker 1: future change the way they think even slightly, which is
Speaker 1: like what we have to do. That's the problems, Like
Speaker 1: you have to go like bit by bit by bit,
Speaker 1: because we as Americans are very hardheaded and you know,
Speaker 1: stuck in our ways, and like that's what we've watched
Speaker 1: for years, like one little, bit by bit by bit
Speaker 1: that we've kind of broken down the American society. You know,
Speaker 1: like we got Bernie a socialist to run as far
Speaker 1: as he did, which you know, ten years ago Bernie
Speaker 1: would be like a socialist get out of here. Yet
Speaker 1: you know, like your communists, Like we didn't even know
Speaker 1: what that meant. You know, we were just hoping a
Speaker 1: Democrat would win. And now we're out here being like democrats. Okay,
Speaker 1: a democrat that you're basically calling, you know, like a
Speaker 1: democrat in army is basically Republican. At this point, we're like, okay, nice,
Speaker 1: try but like now it's just like step by step
Speaker 1: by step, it's the only way because again, as Americans
Speaker 1: were a mess. We simply can't figure it out. Indeed,
Speaker 1: that's true. Well, speaking of all of this and and
Speaker 1: taking actions, doing more than words. One of the reasons
Speaker 1: we wanted to talk to you, Anna is that you
Speaker 1: founded something called Next Up to kind of address a
Speaker 1: lot of what we're talking about, and uh, we would
Speaker 1: love if you could explain more about the history of that,
Speaker 1: what it is, what's going on with it right now. Yeah. So, actually, um,
Speaker 1: I kind of came up with the idea of Next Up,
Speaker 1: which obviously wasn't called that at the time. But at
Speaker 1: the Orlando podcast movement that we were all at in
Speaker 1: the Lazy River, we're all great thinking happens. Um I
Speaker 1: really can't stress unless there's so much I love Lazier.
Speaker 1: I know you guys had such a terrible experience, and
Speaker 1: I had such a great experience in that lazy River.
Speaker 1: It was like my dream. I think it says a
Speaker 1: lot about our personality. I think our anxiety, maybe some
Speaker 1: mental health stuff, overall control issues. It's fine, it's fine.
Speaker 1: I simply cannot get enough of a lazy river anyway. So,
Speaker 1: while at podcast movement, I ran into a friend, a
Speaker 1: thief Nassouli, who's a journalist now works at Spotify. Gimlet
Speaker 1: Wall street Journal producing shows, and he was there at
Speaker 1: this conference with this sort of Google PRX like diversity program.
Speaker 1: And at the time of my friend of Fief lived
Speaker 1: in Lebanon, So to me, I was like, whoa, you
Speaker 1: live in Lebanon and are in this program him and
Speaker 1: are like creating a podcast and like Google, you know
Speaker 1: pr X, this program is paying for it. Like that's amazing,
Speaker 1: like an incredible I was like, that is the coolest
Speaker 1: thing I've ever heard, the fact that they like fly
Speaker 1: you out from Lebanon, Like that's incredible. And he was
Speaker 1: working on a show called Her Stage in Arabic I
Speaker 1: believe it's Mastrahia, which I'm sorry if I'm pronouncing that wrong,
Speaker 1: but Her Stage is basically a show about like the
Speaker 1: sort of fem sort of you know, like l g
Speaker 1: B t Q I A revolutions like going on in
Speaker 1: levitt On, like kind of the underground scene of what
Speaker 1: it is to be a drag queener performer or just
Speaker 1: living in like a queer space. And I was like,
Speaker 1: that's a really cool podcast, and that's incredible that this
Speaker 1: program is paying for you to create that show because
Speaker 1: these stories are important, Like I would have never even
Speaker 1: known that like that was even a conceptually something that
Speaker 1: was happening until he said it to my face and
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, well wow, like that's incredible, And
Speaker 1: so that kind of got me thinking that and uh,
Speaker 1: if you guys don't remember, Spotify is how to sort
Speaker 1: of initiative for women to get into podcasting, So that
Speaker 1: was kinda had already happened. So that was in the
Speaker 1: back of my mind, and then hearing his story kind
Speaker 1: of got me thinking. And so at really literally in
Speaker 1: my mind, I was thinking, but we're I heeart, why
Speaker 1: don't we have something like that, Like we're literally I Heart,
Speaker 1: We're like constantly neck and neck with NPR is like
Speaker 1: the top podcast network. Surreal that we would not have
Speaker 1: something like that. So I cornered our CEO at our
Speaker 1: I Heart party at Orlando at the Podcast Movement, and
Speaker 1: I told him I pitched him this idea. I was like,
Speaker 1: I think it's pretty wild we do not have a
Speaker 1: sort of diversity initiative here, Like we are a massive company.
Speaker 1: We can afford to give back, you know, And he
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, yeah, we couldn't. You know his conn
Speaker 1: a way, you know. I was like okay, And so
Speaker 1: after that, I was like, brb Connell, we'll talk soon,
Speaker 1: you know. I went away for about a few months
Speaker 1: and uh started working on like a pitch um. I
Speaker 1: interviewed a bunch of people, including my friend of Fief
Speaker 1: who had been in these diversity programs. I talked to
Speaker 1: a few people from the Spotify program. I talked to
Speaker 1: a few people from the PRX, and I was just
Speaker 1: like asking people like, what was your experience, what did
Speaker 1: you like, what didn't you like? What could have made
Speaker 1: it better? You know, like just like getting a feel
Speaker 1: of what people liked about these podcast diversity programs, because
Speaker 1: I really would had never done anything like this before,
Speaker 1: So I was just asking anything that came to mind
Speaker 1: to then go away and create a sort of a program.
Speaker 1: Like I was just literally being like, okay, so you
Speaker 1: liked that they gave you money. You know. Really, I
Speaker 1: was such a simple just trying to figure it out
Speaker 1: level that I went away and with the help of
Speaker 1: Jack O'Brien, my manager on the comedy side, just like
Speaker 1: kind of using him as like a sounding board, being
Speaker 1: like this is what I'm thinking, uh, and then he
Speaker 1: kind of helped me word it in a way that
Speaker 1: sounded like professional because I am a real like in
Speaker 1: my thinking, I'm a very simple person. I guess that
Speaker 1: makes me thinking strange. But like I I like to
Speaker 1: keep it to the basics. I don't like to get
Speaker 1: too heady and complicated and like deep. I mean not
Speaker 1: like deep. I can get deep, but I mean like
Speaker 1: I don't like to like use big language to sound smart,
Speaker 1: you know, like I always think that's like so condescending
Speaker 1: in a way, it's too much. I'm like, just be
Speaker 1: real with me, talk clearly. Let's do this so I
Speaker 1: don't sit there thinking, like, wait, what's like talking about
Speaker 1: very literal give me the basis on exactly. That's how
Speaker 1: I've always been. I don't believe in like the sounding
Speaker 1: smart to sound smart. Like I'm like, we don't need this.
Speaker 1: Climate change is destroying us. We don't have time, you know,
Speaker 1: like we gotta get moving to explain to me exactly
Speaker 1: what you want, you know, and what you're saying, like
Speaker 1: keep it clear. So he kind of helped me, like
Speaker 1: make it sound professional, make it sound good. Whatever. And
Speaker 1: uh so I took this pitch, and you know, it
Speaker 1: took a while because this was the end of sort
Speaker 1: of like August. When I pitched it, to Connell, and
Speaker 1: then I went away and then came around and I
Speaker 1: realized I kind of it wasn't possible to do this
Speaker 1: thing where we like flew people out for like six
Speaker 1: months and like worked with them. It was all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, like, oh, there's a global pandemic, and we
Speaker 1: I basically like put it on the back burner and
Speaker 1: was like, well, let's get through this first, and then
Speaker 1: I'll think about this diversity program because as of now
Speaker 1: things are kind of in a bad place in America
Speaker 1: or in the world really so. And then you know,
Speaker 1: it's an unfortunate thing that George Floyd was murdered, you know,
Speaker 1: um and such a really horrible, horrible way. And you know,
Speaker 1: this country finally it took a black man again being
Speaker 1: murdered but on camera, which is not even the first
Speaker 1: time that's happened to have a wrecking thing. I mean, honestly,
Speaker 1: it also took like everyone just finally being fed up
Speaker 1: in this country's inability to even handle a global pandemic,
Speaker 1: as if it's not happened before, to force everyone to
Speaker 1: look at themselves and you know what they were putting forth,
Speaker 1: And that's what kind of lead to me being able
Speaker 1: to pitch next up in a more revised, pandemic friendly way,
Speaker 1: which is like zoom, you know, to the company. So
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, you know, you guys want to
Speaker 1: do something, We'll hear something. Here's something that we can
Speaker 1: put forth that will help bring further perspectives into this world.
Speaker 1: And this is my heart. So you want to do something,
Speaker 1: put your money, worry about this, you know. Like I
Speaker 1: was like, let's make it happen. And luckily, you know,
Speaker 1: we're run by Connal, who is very forthcoming and very
Speaker 1: open and very into it. You know, he's down, and
Speaker 1: he was like, let's do it. Go do it. Basically
Speaker 1: I got the thumbs up, but like have fun, go
Speaker 1: do it and good luck and good night now and
Speaker 1: shook him. But you know, he was like, go do it,
Speaker 1: and so I did. It's like, okay, you know, obviously
Speaker 1: before that, I had created an entire game plan, I
Speaker 1: had created a budget, I had created all this stuff
Speaker 1: that obviously it wasn't just like go do what. It
Speaker 1: was more like, here's everything to present to you, here's
Speaker 1: what I would like to do, here's how much money
Speaker 1: I need. And then they were like, perfect, let's do it.
Speaker 1: So yeah. We the first inaugural class of Next Up
Speaker 1: started auguste and we finished the program basically February. We
Speaker 1: had eight participants in the program and all eight had
Speaker 1: their shows picked up by iHeart UH with the help
Speaker 1: of Toyota, who came in and sponsored the entire Next
Speaker 1: Up initiative, so we were able to pick up all
Speaker 1: their shows and to give an idea. So the initiative
Speaker 1: is we bring in. Originally it was supposed to be
Speaker 1: only six people, but I just there were certain cuts
Speaker 1: I just could not make, Like I honestly, I became
Speaker 1: so emotionally involved I couldn't. It was like cutting off
Speaker 1: a limb to cut off certain people from this program,
Speaker 1: you know. And so end up with eight people in
Speaker 1: the program, and we paid for all their equipment, We
Speaker 1: paid for all their software, and then they went through
Speaker 1: an intensive two week orientation where they basically got like
Speaker 1: a crash course in all things podcasting, which thanks to
Speaker 1: everyone at my Heart who UH contributed to that, this
Speaker 1: is all happened over zoom. After the two weeks, they
Speaker 1: basically started working on their podcasts, which it was a
Speaker 1: six month program. Um. They also got a stipend for
Speaker 1: their time, so they were paid during this program. Um.
Speaker 1: And so after six months they had three episodes of
Speaker 1: their podcast completed and a one page document or pitch
Speaker 1: deck whichever they prefer created. So with the help of
Speaker 1: us me Joel Monique, Yes and Yeah, Median and Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we helped them put all this together. Uh And
Speaker 1: they also had mentors throughout this process, other I Heart employees,
Speaker 1: and then they were able to pitch their show to
Speaker 1: I Heart, to the development team. Shoutout Bethan uh too
Speaker 1: have their shows picked up and thanks to Toyota, all
Speaker 1: their shows were picked up and they're now currently I
Speaker 1: believe half have dropped and the other half are basically
Speaker 1: coming out. So all year they've been the shows have
Speaker 1: been dropping, which has been incredible. Like we've had so
Speaker 1: many different podcasts come out of it. You know, we
Speaker 1: had Hanai Twitchell, who has a show about Native American
Speaker 1: language revitalization. We have doctor Uh Jonathan Higgins whose show
Speaker 1: is called Black Fat Fem which is all about the
Speaker 1: intersection of being a black person with you know, feminine
Speaker 1: characteristics and being a fat person in America, which you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of people are not interested in these sorts
Speaker 1: of stories, but guess what. These people exist and we
Speaker 1: need to hear about their experiences. Maria Diaz is putting
Speaker 1: out a show be out soon called When You're Invisible,
Speaker 1: which is all about the people who work behind the
Speaker 1: scenes too, you know, basically the backbones of this country.
Speaker 1: And she actually interviewed the people who cleaned up New
Speaker 1: York after nine eleven, literally the people who had to
Speaker 1: risk their lives literally, like you know, immigrants who went
Speaker 1: into the streets and had to clean up the debris
Speaker 1: after our country went through such a tragic experience. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like it's not us doing it. We pay the
Speaker 1: people that we don't pay attention to to do all
Speaker 1: the sort of behind the scenes, uh anything. Americans are like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't want to do that, you know, like just
Speaker 1: like really horrible. We're like just monsters and we just
Speaker 1: pay people to do that. Well, those people, I have
Speaker 1: true experiences and they have their own stories to tell.
Speaker 1: So you know, Maria went to talk to them, you know,
Speaker 1: as she went to talk to the house cleaners, the cooks,
Speaker 1: the people who get look down on in our society
Speaker 1: even though they are the people that keep us moving
Speaker 1: every single day. And so yeah, we had a lot
Speaker 1: of great shows like that come out of this program,
Speaker 1: and it was like all I could have ever wanted
Speaker 1: was such a dream working with all these incredible creators
Speaker 1: who just didn't have an opportunity to get their foot
Speaker 1: in the door in podcasting, because really podcasting is a
Speaker 1: very you know, it might sound easy to get into
Speaker 1: your like it's just a mike you talking to it.
Speaker 1: It's not. You know, equipment cost money, software cost money,
Speaker 1: training cost money. Like we're using stuff like pro tools
Speaker 1: and audition to edit. It's not easy to just come
Speaker 1: into these programs and figure it out. It takes time,
Speaker 1: it takes energy. A lot of people don't have that,
Speaker 1: and so they can't tell their stories because it's not
Speaker 1: like a very open industry to anyone. So, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: that's kind of what next up is. And we're doing
Speaker 1: the next round of the program starting in January, and
Speaker 1: if you keep your eye out, there is an application
Speaker 1: that will be out there which I will give the
Speaker 1: link to Annie and Samantha to put in the description.
Speaker 1: So so is that all they need to do if
Speaker 1: they are interested in being a part of this program
Speaker 1: to find that link fill out application. Simple as that
Speaker 1: it's and it's also like not a give me a
Speaker 1: ten page essay on why you matter. No. I also
Speaker 1: one of the big things about this whole process is like,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to make this a jump through hoops application.
Speaker 1: This application is going to be a simple tell me
Speaker 1: about yourself, Like I hate the things that really make
Speaker 1: it be like you really have to want this, And
Speaker 1: it's like you do have to want it, But I'm
Speaker 1: not going to be the person who demands so much
Speaker 1: to make you prove to me you're worth my time. No,
Speaker 1: this is I don't believe in that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: I believe in a very egalitarian like I don't care
Speaker 1: what your background is. I don't care what you've experienced,
Speaker 1: Like I don't care if you have a resume, I
Speaker 1: don't care if you've ever even looked at an audio
Speaker 1: file before. I just want to know that you're passionate
Speaker 1: about something and interested in being involved in I don't
Speaker 1: need an essay for that. I think a lot of
Speaker 1: like again, like the Americans sort of like system is
Speaker 1: like fight to the death, and it's like that to
Speaker 1: me is uninteresting. When I see an application that's like
Speaker 1: thirty pages long, I'm like, Okay, hey, all right, that's
Speaker 1: that's a bit much. You don't need that much for
Speaker 1: me to know anything about me. Like I can tell
Speaker 1: you in a type paragraph my adversity, what I've gone through,
Speaker 1: like how I deal with issues, and what I want
Speaker 1: to do in my life a solid paragraph, I could
Speaker 1: tell you that, And you don't need me to, like,
Speaker 1: you know, pontificate on my feelings and everything i've you know,
Speaker 1: add a lot, like it's too much. We need to
Speaker 1: be able to give people opportunities without making them jump
Speaker 1: through a hundred hoops to do so, you know. And
Speaker 1: that's how I've always been up in Like I'm not
Speaker 1: I've never been interested in like the hoop la. I
Speaker 1: just want to I just want to give people opportunities.
Speaker 1: That's it. Make it a simple process, because that's what
Speaker 1: I think. That's what I do. Only think gets people through.
Speaker 1: I think what holds people back, what gate keeps people.
Speaker 1: It's like when you're like, m M, you couldn't write
Speaker 1: forty pages on yourself, and it's like what the whole
Speaker 1: process of college is now where they're like write an
Speaker 1: essay and you're like, I, you know, sure, but like
Speaker 1: I got into college and I think my essay was like, dude,
Speaker 1: being a brown person in those country, we after eleven
Speaker 1: and not chill and I got in. It's like it
Speaker 1: should be as simple as like, I don't like how
Speaker 1: we treat people in this country, right, love that? Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: there is this morbid fascination with getting the most tragic
Speaker 1: stories as possible that people really want to have and
Speaker 1: thrive on other people's tragedy to that level that the
Speaker 1: more tragic is the more likely that you're going to
Speaker 1: be heard. And it becomes problematic in so many ways
Speaker 1: obviously because that's the whole level of white saviorism, Like
Speaker 1: all this level of like, uh, feeling like you have
Speaker 1: to be at this door to get hurt or seen
Speaker 1: or to be dead before you recognize uh anything, or
Speaker 1: even talking about the problems that you face. That's part
Speaker 1: of that problem. And also feel very seen because when
Speaker 1: it comes to writing in or trying to make a point,
Speaker 1: I am that bad storyteller that just says the one
Speaker 1: line that's important and forgets the detail. But I'm like,
Speaker 1: and that's my story, so thank you and for seeing
Speaker 1: me in my bad storytelling. Ye, I mean, yeah, there's
Speaker 1: like that sort of like I don't need anyone to
Speaker 1: be college educated, Like, I just need you to be
Speaker 1: passionate about wanting to tell your story, and that's all
Speaker 1: I need. It's all need. I kind of think you've
Speaker 1: already answered this question, but just to kind of relay,
Speaker 1: why do you think initiatives like the one that you've
Speaker 1: created with Next Up are so important, especially for our industry,
Speaker 1: because I think opportunity for people who are gate kept
Speaker 1: is very key. Like to me, I'm like, why are
Speaker 1: we making it so hard for people to podcast? Like
Speaker 1: I don't think it's necessary. I think it's almost like
Speaker 1: embarrassing how self important we've made podcasting, Like it shouldn't
Speaker 1: be so hard to tell your story like that. That's
Speaker 1: why I think it's important. I don't believe that podcasting
Speaker 1: is this grand sort of wow, like what like certain
Speaker 1: podcasts that take themselves so seriously and truly believe they're
Speaker 1: doing like the Lord's work. I'm like, are you what
Speaker 1: is going on here? You're talking into a microphone. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's well researched. Anyone can pay for a well researched podcast,
Speaker 1: like you just have money. It just relax a little.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just think that's sort of scene
Speaker 1: within podcasting is too much. And so that's and of
Speaker 1: course that's a personal opinion, and that's just like why
Speaker 1: I think we just need more voices, more people. I
Speaker 1: don't think there should be any gate keeping whatsoever in podcasting.
Speaker 1: And I understand when you use programs like pro Tools,
Speaker 1: like it's unfortunate that it's such a tough program to
Speaker 1: get into, to break into. And I think I taught
Speaker 1: myself a lot of how to use pro tools. I'm
Speaker 1: lucky that I had college courses that taught me how
Speaker 1: to use audio editing programs. Not a lot of people
Speaker 1: get that opportunity. I'm like, very lucky, and that I
Speaker 1: got that opportunity that my college even offered those courses.
Speaker 1: So then like, why would I not take that opportunity
Speaker 1: to then make it easier for other people to get in,
Speaker 1: you know, Like I don't. I don't like the idea
Speaker 1: of taking my privilege and gate keeping with it. You know.
Speaker 1: It's like, no, take your privilege and open a door
Speaker 1: for someone else. And again, it's it's me opening a
Speaker 1: door for eight people. That's a very small step in
Speaker 1: the grand scheme of things, but that's all it takes.
Speaker 1: It's like I said earlier, it's just like one small step,
Speaker 1: one small hand over something, you know, like I give
Speaker 1: one dollar to you, Okay, you know. It's like it's
Speaker 1: just you have to do the small things that you
Speaker 1: can do in order to move, you know, things very slightly,
Speaker 1: which is all we can do because again, like I said,
Speaker 1: as Americans, you can't get one big push. Everyone's like
Speaker 1: what you know, like we can't even get a woman president,
Speaker 1: Like we're still not even there yet, you know. But
Speaker 1: does the little things matter? And I think people don't
Speaker 1: really understand that. They go, like, but it's too small,
Speaker 1: what difference is going to make? But it's like if
Speaker 1: everyone does something small, it does make a difference. So
Speaker 1: that's how I feel. I love it. Before we wrap up,
Speaker 1: do you have any advice you'd like to give to
Speaker 1: people who are like starting in podcasts, who have a
Speaker 1: podcast and want to do more with it. Yeah, if
Speaker 1: you have a podcast, just keep working on. I think
Speaker 1: people get very discouraged when their show doesn't pop off.
Speaker 1: It's very hard to pop off a show. Um, because
Speaker 1: podcasting is such an impacted space. I don't think that
Speaker 1: should stop you because like so like I how I
Speaker 1: like think about my podcast Ethnically Ambigios. It's not a
Speaker 1: huge podcast, but if it's just like one person feels
Speaker 1: less alone because of my show, then I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, that's enough for me, you know. I
Speaker 1: think small steps should be looked at in like a
Speaker 1: bigger light, because it's hard in this world to make
Speaker 1: something that everyone appreciates. But I think if you make
Speaker 1: something you appreciate and you think is good, then I
Speaker 1: think you should keep going at it. I also don't
Speaker 1: believe podcasting making a great podcast should be as hard
Speaker 1: as people try and make it seem. Just if you
Speaker 1: are doing something about like a topic, just like read
Speaker 1: you know, read about it, do your research and you
Speaker 1: can talk honestly. And there's luckily, there are so many
Speaker 1: really good cheap USB mics now, Like you can get
Speaker 1: a cheap us B mic and record into Garage Band,
Speaker 1: which is a program that's already on your computer, or
Speaker 1: you can record into Audacity. Like there's like these different
Speaker 1: programs that you can get for free that you can
Speaker 1: record into. And you can get a cheap USB mic
Speaker 1: for like to thirty to forty bucks. It's not gonna
Speaker 1: be the best best mike, but it's something to start
Speaker 1: with and you can go from there. And you can
Speaker 1: also work with different platforms like libs in anchor FM,
Speaker 1: Like there's all these like platforms that allow you to
Speaker 1: pay by the amount of audio like storage you want
Speaker 1: to upload if you will, so it's like you know,
Speaker 1: m B too, like whatever, hundred gigs, or you can
Speaker 1: pay by a certain plan to host your podcast, and
Speaker 1: a lot of these programs you can apply for their
Speaker 1: like ad Whiz sort of where they basically help you
Speaker 1: sell ads on your show. It's not gonna be a
Speaker 1: ton of money, but it's like these little small steps
Speaker 1: that will help you grow your show. So there's a
Speaker 1: lot of different things you can do as an independent
Speaker 1: podcast or to work on your show. And also there's
Speaker 1: different ways to promote your show, which is like what
Speaker 1: I used to do back in the day. I would
Speaker 1: go to like every news like l A Times, whatever,
Speaker 1: like all these different sites and just like look at
Speaker 1: their editorial boards and see who writes about what you're
Speaker 1: talking about on your show, get their email, make a
Speaker 1: little like a press release, which is pretty simply literally
Speaker 1: google what press releases look like and mimic them and
Speaker 1: then send press releases for your show, Like there's these
Speaker 1: little steps you can take that like, look, at first,
Speaker 1: people are gonna be like what and ignoring your email,
Speaker 1: But if you consistently do it every month, someone will
Speaker 1: respond like, oh okay. You know, like it's these little
Speaker 1: things that you just have to do if you're doing
Speaker 1: something independently, that are actually very possible, and people just
Speaker 1: like don't tell you how to do it, and I
Speaker 1: just had to figure it myself, you know, And I
Speaker 1: just would like Google or you know, if there's something
Speaker 1: you want to do on like an editing app but
Speaker 1: you don't know how dude. YouTube everyone is telling you
Speaker 1: how to do everything on YouTube. I how to do
Speaker 1: everything on YouTube. If I have to do something on
Speaker 1: photoshop and I'm like, wait, what how do I do that?
Speaker 1: I just google it, guess what some person has been
Speaker 1: like in depth explaining it for years. And that's like
Speaker 1: the incredible thing. You can watch anything on YouTube and
Speaker 1: learn how to do everything. And yeah, I just you know,
Speaker 1: those are my little small tips to success in podcasting.
Speaker 1: Excellent tips. I feel like Samantha and I are taking
Speaker 1: notes for us well. And I thank you, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here. It was a delight. Um.
Speaker 1: We would love to have you back again. Can you
Speaker 1: tell the good listeners where they can find you? Yes.
Speaker 1: You can follow me on Twitter at Anna host n
Speaker 1: A A N N A h O S S n
Speaker 1: I e H. You could tweet at me if you
Speaker 1: have any questions about podcasting. I'll respond if I see
Speaker 1: it all respond. As long as you're not being mean
Speaker 1: to me, I usually will respond to you. You can
Speaker 1: follow me on Instagram at Selling Hosts which is s
Speaker 1: E L L I N G H O S S
Speaker 1: N I e H. Which again, if you d m me,
Speaker 1: I will see it and if you're not being mean
Speaker 1: to me almost likely respond to you. If you have
Speaker 1: a question or want to talk about something, or if
Speaker 1: you're like, how do I get into next up? I'll
Speaker 1: tell you I'm very much open to helping people get
Speaker 1: into podcasting or you know, anything. As long as you're
Speaker 1: not being mean to me. I'm a very sensitive soul,
Speaker 1: then I will respond to you. And you can check
Speaker 1: out my podcast Ethnically Ambiguous that I host with Shrine
Speaker 1: Lani Unez. We're on I Heart Just. You can search
Speaker 1: ethnically a Videos podcast and we'll pop up. We're on
Speaker 1: all the platforms. Uh and then yeah, I mean if
Speaker 1: you follow me on social media, you'll see like all
Speaker 1: the other shows I promoted all times, and you'll know
Speaker 1: that I work on them. Yes, yes, it's quite quite
Speaker 1: a for you. It's very impressive. How you sleeping, but okay,
Speaker 1: I'm not you guys are not sleeping. I don't know. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: and we will post the link to the next step
Speaker 1: initiative for any listeners who are interested. We very much
Speaker 1: encourage you to apply. And yeah, it's it's so much
Speaker 1: amazing stuff you're doing in so thank you again, Thank you,
Speaker 1: Thank you guys. Yes, and if you would like to
Speaker 1: contact us listeners, you can or email stuff you Ner
Speaker 1: mom Stuff at I hurt meia dot com. You can
Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, our Instagram
Speaker 1: and Stuff I Never Told You. Thanks as always started
Speaker 1: super producer Christina, Thank you Christina, and thanks to you
Speaker 1: for listening Stuff in our Told's Protection by Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: For more podcast from my Heart Radio, you can check
Speaker 1: out the heart Radio app Apple podcast wherever you listen
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.