Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to season two sixty, episode
Speaker 1: four of dir Days Day production of My Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: This is a podcast where we take a deep dive
Speaker 1: into America's sharing consciousness. And it's Thursday, October two? What
Speaker 1: does that mean? Miles? National Civics Day? National? Wow? We
Speaker 1: could really do with that National Civics Day, considering most
Speaker 1: people have no idea how anything works in our country.
Speaker 1: National Black Cat Day, shout out to my black cat
Speaker 1: and also a national American peroda. Yeah, man, people don't
Speaker 1: even talk. The thing is, they don't. People don't adopt
Speaker 1: black cats out of superstition, and I think in general,
Speaker 1: like like just literally anti blackness, like the black I
Speaker 1: don't know about the black cat and what it evokes
Speaker 1: in whatever culture I was raised in. But yeah, one
Speaker 1: the only reason I have to like a black cat anyway,
Speaker 1: I have two cats because when we went to adopt
Speaker 1: a cat, they were like, this is a bonded there,
Speaker 1: and then we were like, well, we can't split them up.
Speaker 1: So that it turns out it's actually just as easy
Speaker 1: having two cats at least some money. So the black
Speaker 1: cats start feeling themselves like more and more as Halloween approaches. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: When Black Panther came out, she was feeling it. I
Speaker 1: was like, you don't get big time for black just building,
Speaker 1: don't don't do anything. Well, my name is Jack O'Brien
Speaker 1: a K. I hopped off the plane at l A
Speaker 1: X with a dream in my card again clog them
Speaker 1: to the land up fame XS. Whoa am I gonna
Speaker 1: fit in? Jumped in the cab here I am for
Speaker 1: the first time. Look to my right and I see
Speaker 1: the Hollywood sign. This is also crazy. Everybody's tearing at
Speaker 1: their insides. My thighs are literate and my hands sound
Speaker 1: like citris. Mrs Mrs Kenter thanks me for eating her son.
Speaker 1: Then my friend turned on the lights and put the
Speaker 1: tell a Tubbies on. Put the tell a Tubbies on,
Speaker 1: put the tell a Tubbies on. So I put my
Speaker 1: hands up there playing my show the Butterflies Fly Away.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, moving my hips like yeah, I got my
Speaker 1: hands up there playing my show. Some what babies saved
Speaker 1: my life today? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Jack O'Brien's gonna
Speaker 1: be okay. That is courtesy of Mr lex Lugie, Mr Lugubrious,
Speaker 1: in reference to my theory that Teletubby's seems so trippy
Speaker 1: because baby mind and tripping mind are the same. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I appreciate. I appreciate that it just opened with the straight,
Speaker 1: straightforward lyrics of that song for a little while because
Speaker 1: I like to look at the look and Miles his
Speaker 1: eyes when he's like, is he just going to sing
Speaker 1: the fucking party in the US, And I'm like, he's going.
Speaker 1: He's floating, y'all, He's floating. Anyways, I'm thrilled to be
Speaker 1: joined as always by my co host Mr Miles Mr
Speaker 1: Miles Gray, who loves limp fries a K. I wish
Speaker 1: it was a little bit softer. I wish it was
Speaker 1: a dollar. I wish I had a fry who would
Speaker 1: limp I would call? Or I wish I had rabbit
Speaker 1: in a fat in a vat with a Merlo and hollow. Okay, look,
Speaker 1: I'm yeah. I mean I don't drink a lot of Merlo,
Speaker 1: but you know, shout off, shout out hollow. You know,
Speaker 1: love the little braided bread. But I definitely like a
Speaker 1: limp fry, shout out LOCKERNI on the discord. Oh and also,
Speaker 1: who was it? Somebody on Twitter hit me up and
Speaker 1: went to, uh, what was it? Dicks in Seattle. Was like, hey,
Speaker 1: I got the fries, and I was like, you're looking good,
Speaker 1: looking good. That was Scott. Shout out Scott, I see
Speaker 1: nice and soft that fries Dicks driving in in in Seattle. Perfect, perfect,
Speaker 1: not a little they got a little, a little bit
Speaker 1: of external crunch, but inside soft, mashed, softer than Drake
Speaker 1: Mashy potades. Well, Miles, we are thrilled to be joined
Speaker 1: in our third de seat by a brilliant and talented
Speaker 1: podcaster who you know from Invisible and her spinoff fashion
Speaker 1: podcast Articles of Interest, which just dropped the first episode
Speaker 1: of season two. It's Avery Truffle. Maybe I wish I
Speaker 1: had I don't have a song. I wish these were
Speaker 1: so impressive. I like, I like just really humiliating myself
Speaker 1: when we have an esteemed guest on so that this
Speaker 1: lined up perfectly with just a long song. I just
Speaker 1: have to say, Myles, I feel like what you really
Speaker 1: like is poutine, like what you were describing, ushy fry
Speaker 1: like with the I was like that, oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: cusp putine exactly and see. But the thing is with poutine,
Speaker 1: it's the gravy that that brings it to the soggys.
Speaker 1: It's like I like when they come out the fryer, Like,
Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, you did that, you did that with
Speaker 1: the soft fry. But again, it's a very divisive. That's
Speaker 1: a that's an important dividing line. Yes, yes, a lot
Speaker 1: of even past guest Karama Donqua was tweeting me, She's like,
Speaker 1: what is wrong with you? M yeah, I mean look,
Speaker 1: I saw the download numbers. I saw my follower account drop.
Speaker 1: I get it. You know, Stamper cut our listenership was
Speaker 1: cutting half for some I know. I'm just talking about
Speaker 1: fried potato sticks. All right, Avery, We're gonna get to
Speaker 1: know you a little bit better in a moment. First,
Speaker 1: we're gonna tell our listeners a couple of the things
Speaker 1: that we're talking about today. We're gonna talk about student
Speaker 1: performance scores are down, which is to be expected, and
Speaker 1: I think it's we we all can agree right that
Speaker 1: the reason is teachers unions. Thank you. So we'll talk
Speaker 1: about that. We might check in with why police are
Speaker 1: a bad idea. Maybe we are going to talk about
Speaker 1: your podcast and your men's wear your Suits episode. Avery
Speaker 1: spreads a toura, but then how that kind of ties
Speaker 1: into sneaker culture. Oh yeah, curious to hear your thoughts
Speaker 1: on that, and then your new season which is all
Speaker 1: about preppy or I guess not ivy culture. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: like it's a whole discussion if preppy and ivy are
Speaker 1: the same thing and if anyone even uses either of
Speaker 1: those words anymore. But we'll get into it. Yeah, just
Speaker 1: a c slater and say by the bell I think yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: And my sister called used it like when she you know,
Speaker 1: she was into like she wore cross colors and was like,
Speaker 1: taught me very early on. She was like, you look
Speaker 1: like a prep Yeah. Yeah. I was like, well, that's
Speaker 1: I will not allow that. I will just because I
Speaker 1: have this flannel with my fleece vest. I did have
Speaker 1: my hair like parted to this, I looked like one
Speaker 1: of the bad guys from Caddyshack. Incredible reference exactly all
Speaker 1: that plenty more. But first, Avery, we like to ask
Speaker 1: our guests, what is something from your search history? So
Speaker 1: last night I was researching the humors, you know, humorism.
Speaker 1: It was like this, yeah, like this uh theory of
Speaker 1: how health worked before germ theory because a friend of
Speaker 1: mine gave blood and then she was like I suddenly
Speaker 1: felt so much better. I was like, whoa, that's we
Speaker 1: It's like blood letting used to be the way that
Speaker 1: that doctors cured everything. And I was like, oh, what's
Speaker 1: that called again? Oh, it's called humorism. And it's like
Speaker 1: you have these four You've like phlegm and two kinds
Speaker 1: of bile and blood, and they all need to be imbalanced.
Speaker 1: And so it was like a totally like flat earth
Speaker 1: are kind of thing. I was like, maybe humorism is real,
Speaker 1: just like looking into the history of of humorism and
Speaker 1: trying to remember what that was all about. But it
Speaker 1: is kind of fascinating. It's like a superstitious form of
Speaker 1: medicine that you'd think would have some crazy resurgence right now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it did seem like at the time they thought everything
Speaker 1: was caused by there being too much blood in your body.
Speaker 1: They're just like, you're too plunged to listen. Maybe there's
Speaker 1: something to it. Yeah, But then we went all the
Speaker 1: way in the other direction and nothing, No bad things
Speaker 1: are caused by that. Maybe maybe we need to take
Speaker 1: another look. It also strikes me as very unprofitable, like that,
Speaker 1: like that form of medicine is it gonna make anyone money,
Speaker 1: so I could all say, what do I take doc
Speaker 1: let a little bit? Yeah, yeah, yea. I guess they're
Speaker 1: the safe way to do it. That's the other humors
Speaker 1: that are that are trickier though, with like the flegm
Speaker 1: in the bile, Like what do you do with those?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just found myself very curious about
Speaker 1: the four four humors. Yeah, this like when I Google
Speaker 1: do the Google image search of the quadrants, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm just looking at this and being like that was
Speaker 1: explaining health. It's metal as hell. It's so you'd think
Speaker 1: it would be like, oh hey, I'm like an I
Speaker 1: n F J and I'm phlegmatic like one of those
Speaker 1: like New Age revivals right now. Exactly. It's like you
Speaker 1: have an overrepresentation representation of fire and earth with what right? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it was a time when surgeon and barber
Speaker 1: were the same job. It was just a person person
Speaker 1: who had sharp things at their in the room that
Speaker 1: they worked in and not afraid to use them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what is something you think is overrated? Okay, here's here's
Speaker 1: my my hot take. Like the Daily the podcast, I
Speaker 1: love it as a as a as a show. It's great,
Speaker 1: but I recently went out of the country for the
Speaker 1: first time since uh COVID, and I was like, oh right,
Speaker 1: I only listened to the daily all the time, and
Speaker 1: so much of that news was like really American, not exclusively,
Speaker 1: but like very very American. And then suddenly when I
Speaker 1: was in Europe, everyone was so aware of so much
Speaker 1: international news. I was like, man, I gotta I gotta
Speaker 1: branch out. This is like it's a great resource, but
Speaker 1: it is not enough daily newscasts. But wait, what there's
Speaker 1: glaciers in Pakistan that are Michael Abenadi. He's going to jail.
Speaker 1: He was Stormy Daniel's lawyer. We really need to be
Speaker 1: worried about. Yeah, I think that that just goes for
Speaker 1: podcasts with the word daily in in the title. In general,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, not not all, not all not
Speaker 1: I mean, well will occasionally swing the focus to international things,
Speaker 1: but it's it's a delicate balance of trying to be
Speaker 1: we're such a big country, you know, and then you
Speaker 1: also have to be aware of like everything going on
Speaker 1: in this country. You can't be too I mean it's
Speaker 1: like I can either talk about we can talk about
Speaker 1: what's going on with Giselle and Tom Brady, or we
Speaker 1: can talk about Union. I don't know what's the b
Speaker 1: I don't know how you do it. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm in awe. I don't know how when in doubt,
Speaker 1: choose Tom Brady. That's always. That's the shorthand for a
Speaker 1: culture com terrific. Isn't me like friends with the Santis
Speaker 1: now or something like they're no friends? Yeah, like they
Speaker 1: they're they're buddies. They text. Everyone's a milkshake duck. I
Speaker 1: hate it? Yeah? What is uh? What something you think
Speaker 1: is underrated? Well? Then this is the part two is
Speaker 1: like the BBC. After being abroad and being like, wow,
Speaker 1: I don't know anything about what's going on in the world.
Speaker 1: I have supplemented my daily American podcast with the BBC.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh right, this is actually a really great way,
Speaker 1: even though they just ended their Arab service, which is
Speaker 1: which is sad, but otherwise it's like a relatively good
Speaker 1: way to get an idea of what's going on in
Speaker 1: the world. So I love the BBC Global News and
Speaker 1: kind of calming the accidents, are calming the accident? Do
Speaker 1: they have a good podcast? The BBC? Oh my god,
Speaker 1: the BBC Global News is actually incredible. They update it frequently,
Speaker 1: like multiple times a day, from all over, just because
Speaker 1: they're so sprawling and massive, and they have journalists everywhere
Speaker 1: and they're just filing all these reports all the time.
Speaker 1: It's it's great. We update multiple times a day and
Speaker 1: we don't have journalists anywhere. It's so impressive. Underrated all
Speaker 1: all multiple updates. Underrated. All Right, I'm gonna check it out.
Speaker 1: I haven't been listening to the Daily, but I'm gonna.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give the BBC Global News a shot. Well,
Speaker 1: we'll see, we'll see what this bb what whether there's
Speaker 1: anything to this. BBC heard of them before, right, I
Speaker 1: discovered the British bar Broadcasting Service goes to Europe once.
Speaker 1: Have you heard about b c C? I think not. No, no,
Speaker 1: that female thing, it's brands. Let's take a quick break.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back. And we're back, and we're starting
Speaker 1: to get some scores in the National Assessment of Educational
Speaker 1: Progress dropped their performance review of ever educational system and
Speaker 1: it's the first one since the pandemic, and the results
Speaker 1: are not great. No, nope, nope, nope, uh pretty pretty
Speaker 1: pretty big drops. They said the survey of fourth and
Speaker 1: eighth graders found that math scores fell in nearly every state.
Speaker 1: No state showed significant improvements in reading, and the lowest
Speaker 1: performing students saw the largest declines in achievement. And there's
Speaker 1: a lot of takes flying out there from it wasn't
Speaker 1: really that bad that they these kids the scores dropped too.
Speaker 1: We need to We need the teachers unions to be
Speaker 1: absolutely obliterated because they had way too much influence in
Speaker 1: doing this and they were wrong. They're not scientists, bus,
Speaker 1: but it is clear the performance went down, and many
Speaker 1: studies show this consistently, and sadly, it also shows that
Speaker 1: the lower income areas were the hardest hit again, which
Speaker 1: just causes more concern for increased inequality down the road,
Speaker 1: because these are like all years for someone's education, especially
Speaker 1: in like subjects like math and things like that. This
Speaker 1: this is from this Atlantic article. They also said the
Speaker 1: districts with fully remote instructions saw declines and test scores
Speaker 1: up to three times greater than districts that had in
Speaker 1: person instruction for the majority of the school year. When
Speaker 1: the declines again were particularly start for lower achieving the
Speaker 1: minority students. Yeah, I mean that My experience was online school,
Speaker 1: and my kids are much younger than fourth to eighth grade.
Speaker 1: But it you know, if I were working in a
Speaker 1: job where I was not able to like be there
Speaker 1: with like like have one eye on what they were
Speaker 1: doing like that, it would have been absolutely impossible. And
Speaker 1: I think doubly so when if they were at an
Speaker 1: age where they don't believe everything I tell them, Like
Speaker 1: you know, like what once you get to fourth to
Speaker 1: eighth grade, like they're like, yeah, okay, like they're doing
Speaker 1: what they think they need to to get away with
Speaker 1: lying or at least that I'll speak for myself from
Speaker 1: from fourth to eighth grade, I'm just doing what I
Speaker 1: think I can get. That was Maggiavelli up in that,
Speaker 1: so like, of course, of course, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I think around the world. You know, we saw a
Speaker 1: lot of countries kept their schools open, and we're pointing
Speaker 1: to things that, like the studies were showing kids weren't
Speaker 1: necessarily the biggest threat vector in terms of transmission, and
Speaker 1: kids weren't getting as seriously ill as adults. And you know,
Speaker 1: many of the critics of the closures like point to
Speaker 1: this and like or like, but look, every every other
Speaker 1: place saw like they knew that it was low and
Speaker 1: we still had to keep the schools closed. But school
Speaker 1: closures were mostly welcomed by parents, like it wasn't a
Speaker 1: huge like the like a lot of polling showed that
Speaker 1: this wasn't as divisive as an issue as it as
Speaker 1: it was, although many parents were talking about, like the
Speaker 1: how difficult it would be to manage remote learning and
Speaker 1: working remotely during the pandemic, But I don't know, like
Speaker 1: the other thing that they also point to is especially
Speaker 1: like low income and minority parents were at a much
Speaker 1: higher rate excepting of school closure and waiting for absolute
Speaker 1: safety before putting their kids in school because I think
Speaker 1: just in general, I think they were seeing firsthand how
Speaker 1: much more like how brutal COVID can be while trying
Speaker 1: to earn a living in a dangerous setting. So you know,
Speaker 1: everyone's calculus is different. I think that the one the
Speaker 1: one thing that should be pointed out though, is that
Speaker 1: a lot of this isn't permanent and Mississippi students have
Speaker 1: completely recovered in their reading scores, and in a study
Speaker 1: in Ohio found that the current pace of recovery and
Speaker 1: reading would pretty much eliminate the state's learning loss. Younger
Speaker 1: elementary school kids tended to have made up ground much
Speaker 1: quicker in the last year, but older students are recovering
Speaker 1: a little more slowly. And again in you know, race
Speaker 1: or family income are very also very predictive of you
Speaker 1: know what that recovery is going to look like. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, so we're we're in the midst of like
Speaker 1: a sprint to bounce back from this, to get the
Speaker 1: students caught up, like with all this missed learning and
Speaker 1: people's responses the teachers have too good, Like that's that's
Speaker 1: how we're going to solve this is by not giving
Speaker 1: teachers the protections they meet. It doesn't doesn't quite work
Speaker 1: out in my brain. I also think we should all
Speaker 1: have to take these tests because I bet we're all
Speaker 1: like I think my math scores have also fallen since
Speaker 1: the pandemic. I think we're all spiritually and mentally fucked
Speaker 1: up still from the pandemic. I think it was bad
Speaker 1: for all of us. And yeah, we were like we
Speaker 1: we probably need to have a little bit of I
Speaker 1: don't know, patients with ourselves. And also, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: the thing that I always thought when we were talking
Speaker 1: about this over the pandemic was like, yeah, but kids
Speaker 1: are like way more resilient than the rest of us,
Speaker 1: so they'll probably be okay in the long run. But yeah,
Speaker 1: and I do feel like the mental health thing is
Speaker 1: like the X factor. You know. My friends who are
Speaker 1: teachers were like, I'm spending so much time, you know,
Speaker 1: like fourth eighth grade, you're like starting to have existential crises.
Speaker 1: You know'd be like, who am I as like some
Speaker 1: and separate from my parents, And my teacher friends were like,
Speaker 1: I'm spending so much of my time just like talking
Speaker 1: to kids about how they're doing and like regulating that
Speaker 1: because they also don't have each other and like their
Speaker 1: parents are busy, and so yeah, I hope once they
Speaker 1: can like regain some sense of stability, it will allow
Speaker 1: for bounce back. But it's really sad. I mean I
Speaker 1: think that, you know, again, it was a very complex situation,
Speaker 1: especially in the early stages when we knew very little,
Speaker 1: and the binaries seemed to be stay alive or go
Speaker 1: to school, and that was basically what that was sort
Speaker 1: of what the discussion was centered around. And I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: when you look at the data, it has to be
Speaker 1: said that school closures for those extended periods may not
Speaker 1: have been the best move, especially when you consider that
Speaker 1: like that it was widening the gap between rich and
Speaker 1: poor kids. But you know, rather than just going all
Speaker 1: in and being like and this is like, you know,
Speaker 1: this daily beast thing, this person is like. Look, when
Speaker 1: the Republicans take power, it was like, wait, hold on
Speaker 1: what they're like. And I'm not for sham investigations, but
Speaker 1: they absolutely need to talk to like they need to
Speaker 1: get the heads of the teachers unions up there to
Speaker 1: explain what the heck is going on? Like that is
Speaker 1: the that direction, that energy is completely misdirected, in my opinion.
Speaker 1: But you know, I think the biggest thing, too is
Speaker 1: rather than just comparing yourselves, like, well, look what happened
Speaker 1: in these like in in Western Europe or this place
Speaker 1: or this that place, the US is not like other countries.
Speaker 1: You know, we're exceptional in some good ways and also
Speaker 1: in some terrifying fucking ways. And you look at how
Speaker 1: many people died and how little government seemed to care
Speaker 1: about the preciousness of like human life. That wouldn't inspire
Speaker 1: confidence in me as a teacher or someone having to
Speaker 1: work in the pandemic When the message being reflected back
Speaker 1: to me is you will die, and that's fine. And
Speaker 1: if you die, who gives a ship like that's a
Speaker 1: fund up that's a fund up environment to operate in.
Speaker 1: And again, union busting is not the answer here. But
Speaker 1: I think, like anything, right in America, we don't have
Speaker 1: this thing where we go through something, we learned something,
Speaker 1: and then we go back and be like, this is
Speaker 1: what we learned and this is how it will inform
Speaker 1: future decision making, because we just we tend to not
Speaker 1: do that. And I think that's not a good pattern
Speaker 1: for our country because it just undermines people's faith in
Speaker 1: certain institutions when we can't be like, well, hey, dude,
Speaker 1: I guess well we learned something from that fucking pandemic.
Speaker 1: Here's what we're learning, here's what we can how we
Speaker 1: can apply these things. But yeah, it's just hard to
Speaker 1: find the right way to navigate a fucking pandemic when
Speaker 1: half the country thinks keeping people safe as a genocide.
Speaker 1: Right there, Also, is it settled science that this was
Speaker 1: the wrong move to keep like schools closed. And I
Speaker 1: think it's just saying when you're when you're putting it
Speaker 1: all together that the what the what the transmission was
Speaker 1: like in a school, and what the actual like potential
Speaker 1: threat to the safety to the students was was. I
Speaker 1: guess for people who want to really lean into it
Speaker 1: feels overblown. But again, I don't think it's necessarily something
Speaker 1: where I don't think it's it's incorrect to consider the
Speaker 1: samety of people and making the best decision based off
Speaker 1: of that. I think the bigger issue is we had
Speaker 1: so much noise coming from certain parts of our economy
Speaker 1: about going getting back to normal that it completely muddied
Speaker 1: people's ability to actually look at the situation and then
Speaker 1: figure out what the best way to solve that is, right,
Speaker 1: And if you know, teachers were at risk, so I
Speaker 1: mean teachers were dying. That teachers were dying, and like
Speaker 1: what message like human, Like, what kind of message does
Speaker 1: that send to young growing humans that like we're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but we got to keep those test scores up so
Speaker 1: that you can compete in the global economy. Like I
Speaker 1: don't know, like even in retrospects, like knowing that the
Speaker 1: spread wasn't that bad with kids, it still was bad
Speaker 1: for like kids could spread it to teachers and right,
Speaker 1: we didn't know about transmission at all. And like parents
Speaker 1: and yeah, totally, yeah, that's why I think, you know, again,
Speaker 1: it's just more about seeing that other when again, other
Speaker 1: countries are doing it, and I guess looking at those
Speaker 1: results that people are immediately just like, well fuck and
Speaker 1: the and the fucking scores went down. But again, I
Speaker 1: don't think a lot of the criticisms are necessarily that genuine,
Speaker 1: because like the underpinnings of it typically end up on
Speaker 1: some version of like well you teachers, unions have too
Speaker 1: much power, or like some other weird end goal which
Speaker 1: isn't necessarily the health and safety of every person in
Speaker 1: the country, like look what it took to business, Look
Speaker 1: what it did that, and then like this, where this
Speaker 1: one I bet in the Daily Beach is truly being like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, good luck, liberals. You just gave all the
Speaker 1: people who are like school choice advocates all the AMMO
Speaker 1: they need. So like this, I think this study is
Speaker 1: being weaponized in some ways, and other people are just
Speaker 1: sort of objectively being like, yeah, the score is dipped.
Speaker 1: They're tending to recover here. Some this was the fallout
Speaker 1: of it. But again I think more than like what
Speaker 1: happened here with the school closure is the biggest indictment
Speaker 1: is more about how generally is a country we fucking
Speaker 1: handled the pandemic and getting focused on this I think
Speaker 1: give like sort of excuses every other failure, and maybe
Speaker 1: you have to like have more protections in place when
Speaker 1: you don't have a functional health care system. You know,
Speaker 1: like maybe maybe like that the people who are have
Speaker 1: a union looking out for them are going to be
Speaker 1: a little bit more cautious when they know that if
Speaker 1: they do get COVID and have to go to the hospital,
Speaker 1: it could bankrupt them. Yeah like that that what about that? Maybe? Maybe?
Speaker 1: So maybe what about a good argument or even to
Speaker 1: the or even for the people who are like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, adults are the ones that are gonna get sick, Well,
Speaker 1: then why are the fucking bars open? Right? Yeah? Those
Speaker 1: bounced back. If you're if you're fucking that concerned, then
Speaker 1: like be consistent with that, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like rather than being like it's just gonna be all.
Speaker 1: It's also why isn't Chili's open? Like calm? That doesn't
Speaker 1: But that doesn't paint me as like a back Yeah,
Speaker 1: it comes back to the bias against anything that's not profitable,
Speaker 1: and schools are not profitable in the short term. And
Speaker 1: I think that's what's kind of wild is just to
Speaker 1: see people's response to this shows like as a country,
Speaker 1: like we're completely losing our grip on being humane. Yes,
Speaker 1: you know, like they're this woman was arrested in Arizona
Speaker 1: recently because she was feeding the needy and a park
Speaker 1: and the laws don't allow you to serve food in
Speaker 1: a charitable nature, Like we're we're criminalizing ship like that,
Speaker 1: and also having like these wild takes or they're like
Speaker 1: the teachers unions have way too much power because teachers
Speaker 1: were dying and they were looking out for their the
Speaker 1: workers involved in this union, but just using like these
Speaker 1: scores to sort of completely say that this is a
Speaker 1: this is a failure and if they want better wages,
Speaker 1: well the unions really screwed them over, because now they
Speaker 1: look like they don't know what they're doing. Right. It
Speaker 1: was it was a difficult situation, you know, the teachers
Speaker 1: like we got the results we got, and it's just
Speaker 1: America is not great at dealing with difficult situations. It
Speaker 1: would seem at this at this point in our evolution.
Speaker 1: Also any sort of like what it could have should
Speaker 1: have about COVID feels ridiculous to be like, we shouldn't
Speaker 1: have been wiping down surfaces that didn't do anything. It's like, well, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: we didn't know, Like and all those times they're like,
Speaker 1: don't wear a mask, you know what I mean, we
Speaker 1: were throwing spaghetti at the wall. We had no idea, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things we should have done, a
Speaker 1: lot of things we should have done differently. I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's funny in retrospect that I was disinfecting my cheerios
Speaker 1: boxes when I got some home from the grocery store.
Speaker 1: But I'm I'm also like not calling for the heads
Speaker 1: of the of the people who suggested that it could
Speaker 1: be spread by you know, particles on cheerio boxes, because
Speaker 1: we just didn't know, and everyone was freaking out, understandably,
Speaker 1: and and it did kill a million people, Yes, and again,
Speaker 1: try operating in good faith, like and what's the best
Speaker 1: interest for your own health or your community's health. When
Speaker 1: you live you have millions of people who would just
Speaker 1: be like, why you wearing a mask? Why are you
Speaker 1: doing this? Let me get in your ship, Like we're
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying, Like, if I think for people
Speaker 1: who want to make a really easy comparison. It's like,
Speaker 1: well they didn't do that in like South Korea or whatever.
Speaker 1: It's like, we're not We're not dealing with the same ship.
Speaker 1: Were also in South Korea, the government was like bringing
Speaker 1: people food to be like, hey, we know you're locked up.
Speaker 1: Here's a fucking care package because we know you have
Speaker 1: to eat, because we understand that, as you know, just
Speaker 1: a concept rather than our version, which is like a
Speaker 1: salute the people who are whose only financial recourse is
Speaker 1: to go buy groceries for people with more money. Right,
Speaker 1: all right, let's uh, let's move on to maybe the
Speaker 1: police are a bad fucking idea Part two, recurring segment.
Speaker 1: We have So a couple of weeks back, the Edmonton
Speaker 1: Police released a composite of a suspect in a twenty
Speaker 1: nineteen sexual assault. A black man who or a black
Speaker 1: male I will say who, judging from the image, presumably
Speaker 1: escaped on the Polar Express because the the image they
Speaker 1: released makes him look twelve years old. And it's not
Speaker 1: a curse like it like you say, like Polar Express,
Speaker 1: You're like, are are you a computer animated kid? It's
Speaker 1: a computer animated twelve year old. What yes, and so
Speaker 1: what they did was they used DNA phenotyping, which is
Speaker 1: the process of predicting a physical appearance and ancestry from
Speaker 1: unidentified DNA evidence. This is not a set There is
Speaker 1: not a settled science around this. The cops bought the
Speaker 1: composite from a company called parabin Nano Labs, which sounds
Speaker 1: very official. They routinely provide this service to law enforcement,
Speaker 1: and the Edmonton Police claim in this tactic was taken
Speaker 1: because the public needs to get this person off the streets.
Speaker 1: Even though they admitted that the composite was not accurate,
Speaker 1: it turns out that's a massive understatement. Less than a
Speaker 1: week later, the Edmonton Police issued an apology over the
Speaker 1: use of DNA phenotyping after a massive backlash for its
Speaker 1: broad characterization of just a black man again could be
Speaker 1: a black child, which experts expressed concern would lead to
Speaker 1: mass surveillance of any black man approximately five ft four.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, d NA po typing sounds like phrenology
Speaker 1: or something that is like arcane. That is wild, especially
Speaker 1: a couple of that would like and this is who
Speaker 1: did it? Face is so specific, but so it's like
Speaker 1: a police sketch. But it's not. It's based on kind
Speaker 1: of less than a police sketch, which already you know,
Speaker 1: very very problematic. But one geneticist called the quote science
Speaker 1: of extracting facial profiles from d NA quote dangerous snake oil,
Speaker 1: while one taxpayer complaining the government is wasting money on
Speaker 1: racist astrology for cops. Oh my god. Yes, you know,
Speaker 1: we always hear that the problem with algorithms is human bias.
Speaker 1: And this is like the visual manifestation of using science
Speaker 1: to dress up human bias. That's so scary, that's and yeah,
Speaker 1: to be like, oh, it is heritage and history to manufacture.
Speaker 1: It also gives d N a evidence a bad name,
Speaker 1: like and from this d NA we will conjure this
Speaker 1: image of like a composite that a computer made. But yeah,
Speaker 1: the company that provides the service, pair Bien, also does
Speaker 1: DNA matching, but this specific service is called Snapshot, was
Speaker 1: first released in and a lot of people in the
Speaker 1: field of DNA rees were skeptical of Snapshot and continue
Speaker 1: to be. For one things, the company's science has yet
Speaker 1: to be published in any peer reviewed literature. So that's
Speaker 1: that's one of those things that like we generally look
Speaker 1: for in our science. I mean, do you wonder how
Speaker 1: they came up with the name snapshot. It sounds too
Speaker 1: like cute and in effect, you know, it's like snapchat
Speaker 1: or like a snap Judge, it's like that's not you
Speaker 1: aren't even trying snapshot. Yeah, hey, this will take off.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, it does feel focus grouped. Yes, it feels
Speaker 1: that came out of like Mattel, Like Mattel's like focus grouping,
Speaker 1: like for coming up with the name of like a
Speaker 1: snapshot Barbie, like fucked up kid's toy. It's like two
Speaker 1: drops of blood in the receptacle container in fifteen minutes
Speaker 1: and then it will reveal your new image snapshot. That's
Speaker 1: like the BuzzFeed personality test of the future. Totally and
Speaker 1: like that a world will just give figure it out.
Speaker 1: See what cartoon, what Looney Tunes character we are by
Speaker 1: dropping our blood into a vial? Oh my god, I
Speaker 1: could totally see if I don't even answer questions anywhere
Speaker 1: a version of the future where like you know, the
Speaker 1: twenty three and me goes down a path where you're
Speaker 1: like spitting a cup and then like they do all
Speaker 1: sorts of fun like personality tests exactly it's like, have
Speaker 1: you tried a belliage. It's not like hair die job,
Speaker 1: like that would really look good for you, Like what
Speaker 1: given your ancestry, right, yeah, I don't have a hair.
Speaker 1: You're looking at me. You're telling much you mean, but
Speaker 1: there there's basically no way to know how they're accomplishing
Speaker 1: what they say they are. Their response to the criticism is,
Speaker 1: we're not in the business to write papers. The results
Speaker 1: speak for themselves. So results are up, my man, and
Speaker 1: they're bad. A genetist whose work parabin admits they partly
Speaker 1: based their technique on suspects that Parabun is just generating
Speaker 1: a bunch of generic faces and then using the DNA
Speaker 1: info to tweak these faces and fill in the blanks.
Speaker 1: It's there, ah knows, Oh my god. Yeah, it really
Speaker 1: is very similar to their notes. Wasn't that kind of
Speaker 1: what they did with Yeah, I'm like, right, this is
Speaker 1: like the takedown is making itself right right, Yeah, so
Speaker 1: that would explain why the composite looks so broad and
Speaker 1: just yeah or just be like, what the like land
Speaker 1: that you say that it really does feel like a
Speaker 1: creative player function in a sports game when it's like
Speaker 1: you're the seventeen, like eight faces you can then funk
Speaker 1: if you could funk with from there because this one
Speaker 1: like how like it's a like this fucking mug shot
Speaker 1: looks like a fucking thirteen year old twelve year old.
Speaker 1: Well that's so this is what's wild. Okay, So from
Speaker 1: the DNA testing that they're doing, they can't even determine
Speaker 1: a person's age using so they chose the age of
Speaker 1: you know, fourteen, and like that's the point that we
Speaker 1: discussed recently, like with with regards to the l A
Speaker 1: City Council's like racist comments. It's interesting that they chose
Speaker 1: to spread a picture of a black child when they
Speaker 1: couldn't possibly know the age. Like the other ing and
Speaker 1: targeting of black children is like real, and it's a
Speaker 1: cultural sickness that I feel like comes from the dissonance
Speaker 1: that occurs in the brain of a person who's cultural
Speaker 1: conditioning tells them to be racist against black people, but
Speaker 1: whose humanity tells them that these are fucking children and
Speaker 1: to like to help smooth over that dissonist dissonance, they
Speaker 1: like grasp for anything they can to like find something
Speaker 1: that others Black children like yeah like it, and yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know that in terms of skin color, one
Speaker 1: expert estimated the scientists would only be able to predict
Speaker 1: someone's skin color using DNA with twenty five percent accuracy.
Speaker 1: They went all in on his complexion too. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: but this is in Canada, right, Yeah, this is in Canada.
Speaker 1: But this is also um. So the cops in Edmonton
Speaker 1: apologize for using a tech, it doesn't mean they'll necessarily stop.
Speaker 1: And in the NYPD announced that there they've no longer
Speaker 1: used Snapshot in their investigations. But then more than a
Speaker 1: year later, it turned out that they had maintained a
Speaker 1: relationship with the company. I knew. I was like, I
Speaker 1: had a thinking feeling. I was like, cool, this is
Speaker 1: gonna some American Yeah, the police, you know, is going
Speaker 1: to be like, all right, we got this, Like new
Speaker 1: technology seems pretty lu hopefully this this this was from
Speaker 1: five years ago. This from a local news broadcast in Denver.
Speaker 1: When they're they're they're like heralding the arrival of d
Speaker 1: N A phenotyping putting a face on crime. What if
Speaker 1: you could see what a suspect looks like just from
Speaker 1: the DNA left behind. It sounds like sci fi. But
Speaker 1: Aurora Police or some of the first in the country
Speaker 1: to use his cutting edge technology try to catch the
Speaker 1: bad guys. But Denver seven Jacqueline Allen found some question
Speaker 1: whether the science is ready. Private companies say they can
Speaker 1: use your DNA to make predictions about what you look like,
Speaker 1: your skin color, eye color, painting a digital picture of
Speaker 1: your face, but some researchers are concerned about how accurate
Speaker 1: that is, so we tried it ourselves. So they go on.
Speaker 1: But again like the like the buyinary here is like
Speaker 1: new technology to catch the bad guy, some people who
Speaker 1: actually know what the funk they're talking about are like,
Speaker 1: not so fucking quick, right, Yeah, it just shows again
Speaker 1: like it's this always there's going there's always like the
Speaker 1: side that's like, yes, spend more money so I have
Speaker 1: to do less work to actually catch somebody like hey, buddy,
Speaker 1: your face looks like this racist fucking a I algorithm face,
Speaker 1: so it was you um or they have then they'll
Speaker 1: actually have to use DNA to match that. But and
Speaker 1: then on the other side of just people trying to
Speaker 1: say this is fucking dangerous, it's pseudo science. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean just think about who has like these companies are
Speaker 1: like when you read the history of these companies they
Speaker 1: get like hundreds of millions of dollars of cash infusions
Speaker 1: from you know, venture capital firms, and who where where
Speaker 1: is the money on the other side of that, you
Speaker 1: know who who's balancing that out by looking out for
Speaker 1: people who are getting wrongly convicted. It's like public defenders
Speaker 1: and ship you know, like people who are you know,
Speaker 1: not not making any money. And then you know, also
Speaker 1: it would be interesting to look at the sourcing of
Speaker 1: that local news story because they got to try it
Speaker 1: out themselves, like a fun little like party game. So
Speaker 1: they obviously did that story with the operation of the
Speaker 1: DNA evidence like company that they were reporting on. Also,
Speaker 1: just the political ramifications of like circulating pictures of people
Speaker 1: at Nebula, Like yeah, yeah, I was just thinking, I
Speaker 1: like met someone recently. He was like, oh, yeah, I
Speaker 1: really hope Donald Trump runs again. I don't really agree
Speaker 1: with him on anything, but like crime, we have to
Speaker 1: close the border. You know. He's like these illegals, they're
Speaker 1: like causing He's like what did he say? He was like,
Speaker 1: my wife got mugged the other day. I was like,
Speaker 1: how do you know it was an illegal immigrant? And
Speaker 1: he was like, you don't and this guy was an immigrant,
Speaker 1: you know, he was like, you don't know, it wasn't
Speaker 1: an illegal immigrant, you know, just plays into like this
Speaker 1: larger political paranoia that we're so so it's like for
Speaker 1: some people to number one voting issue above everything else
Speaker 1: is like, am I safe as my family safe against
Speaker 1: like these other these other people. So that's so to
Speaker 1: imagine just like more imagery, more faces, more more images
Speaker 1: put up on TV of this is maybe probably a
Speaker 1: danger people with this like yeah, ethnic background, like that's terrifying, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, people are definitely going through mean world
Speaker 1: syndrome of just having that just put right back in
Speaker 1: their face. And you know, we talked about the proliferation
Speaker 1: of like ring cameras and home surveillance and all this
Speaker 1: other stuff, and like the fucking next door app and
Speaker 1: ship like that just feeds and feeds and feeds your
Speaker 1: like if you have, if you're your cognitive biasedes biases
Speaker 1: aimed towards what the folks going on out there. Everything
Speaker 1: is so fucking unsafe. There's no shortage of ways to
Speaker 1: fucking freak yourself out. There's no fucking like you could
Speaker 1: turn on any fucking channel, look at any app, whatever,
Speaker 1: there's something to reinforce that. And yeah, it's it's becoming
Speaker 1: a really effective tool and it's the entire it's one
Speaker 1: of the biggest things Republicans are running on now. It's
Speaker 1: just like crime wave that's not there. Yeah, there's money
Speaker 1: in the fear. Yeah yeah, all right, let's take a
Speaker 1: quick break, we'll come back. We'll talk about men's war,
Speaker 1: and we're back. And yeah, I just I I just
Speaker 1: checked out your podcast Articles of Interest, Avery and the
Speaker 1: Men's Where the Suits episode, which kind of dove into
Speaker 1: men's whear, was super fascinating. It got it this idea
Speaker 1: that I've always been aware of, but I hadn't really
Speaker 1: like heard people kind of put words to it. But
Speaker 1: this idea that I guess it's called spreads to see.
Speaker 1: I'm a man, so I have to like say it,
Speaker 1: like I don't even give a shit about it. But
Speaker 1: you love yelling things in other languages, that's true, that's
Speaker 1: kind of my thing. But so you you actually get
Speaker 1: at this while talking to this like I guess self
Speaker 1: self described men's where like nerd and in this store
Speaker 1: that is like men's wear, like the highest level of
Speaker 1: men's wear, dandiest men's wear store in modern America, and
Speaker 1: it calls itself the armory, which I thought was it
Speaker 1: still has to like slather itself in like violence and
Speaker 1: like praditional masculinity, but like that where you get your
Speaker 1: weapons and by that we mean kerchiefs and yeah, but
Speaker 1: hearing you talk about it made me realize that like
Speaker 1: since yeah, I guess it's since as you outline, like
Speaker 1: since the like courts where royals and like high society
Speaker 1: women and men were all dressed in like jewels and
Speaker 1: lace and like wigs like since that time, and you
Speaker 1: talk about the one person who kind of created this advent.
Speaker 1: But the one central thing in men's fashion is that
Speaker 1: men need to look great while appearing not to care,
Speaker 1: like appearing not to try, which I thought was such
Speaker 1: an interesting insight. Men have to appear like they don't
Speaker 1: care about fashion and like they are up to weigh
Speaker 1: more important things. And this is so true, you know,
Speaker 1: it's interesting, Like this was also especially true. This wasn't
Speaker 1: in the episode, but it's actually in this season of
Speaker 1: Articles of Interest, which is all about preppy clothes, and
Speaker 1: that starts with the history of Brooks Brothers, which was
Speaker 1: one of the earliest ready to wear manufacturers. It was
Speaker 1: one of the first places you could go and not
Speaker 1: have to get fitted for a tailor to make you
Speaker 1: a customed suit. You could go and just buy something
Speaker 1: off the rack, like Brooks Brothers is one of the
Speaker 1: first places to to do that. And that was huge
Speaker 1: in America in like the early days of the American
Speaker 1: Democratic experiment, because it was this like democratic way of dressing.
Speaker 1: Like poorer people who thought they'd never own a suit
Speaker 1: or who only wore secondhand things could now like buy
Speaker 1: a ready to wear suit at a much lower price point.
Speaker 1: And something that was so interesting about that is like
Speaker 1: it created this idea that because you could just buy
Speaker 1: clothes off the rack men, there were no ready made
Speaker 1: clothes for women. There were like only ready made clothes
Speaker 1: for men. You don't get ready made clothes for women
Speaker 1: into like the nineteenth century, and so it created or
Speaker 1: until the yeah, late nineteenth century, and so it created
Speaker 1: this idea that like, oh, men don't have to care
Speaker 1: because they are these companies that will care for them. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: women had to like keep up and you sow their
Speaker 1: own clothes and keep up with fashion journals themselves. And
Speaker 1: it was this whole thing. It was like well, men
Speaker 1: have to care about politics and economics, and women largely
Speaker 1: weren't allowed to, and so you know, created this idea
Speaker 1: that it's like foolish or or silly to care about
Speaker 1: what you wear when it's something that we obviously all
Speaker 1: have to do. So there's this culture in men's wear.
Speaker 1: Or even if you do buy a really expensive whatever
Speaker 1: sport coat, whatever dandy thing you like, you're supposed to
Speaker 1: leave it like unbuttoned or like a little ruffled, or
Speaker 1: like the collar a little a little bedraggled. You don't
Speaker 1: want to look too too buttoned up or like you
Speaker 1: care too much. Yeah, this reminded me of the hairy
Speaker 1: styles conversation because that like that seems to be the
Speaker 1: person who is the most you know, fashion forward, you
Speaker 1: know i icon and in the modern world. And for
Speaker 1: a long time he stuck to this like he would
Speaker 1: wear these very like attention grabbing, like just openly beautiful
Speaker 1: articles of clothing, but like he wore it in a
Speaker 1: way that it seemed like they were just like thrown
Speaker 1: at him and whatever happened, the stick was like part
Speaker 1: of the outfit was draped. And and that still like
Speaker 1: sends to me, tends to be the case with Timothy
Speaker 1: shallow May will go like his thing will be like
Speaker 1: shirtless under a beautiful suit jacket or you know. But
Speaker 1: then then I think, I think, you know, when Styles
Speaker 1: wore that like silk shirt and jewelry to the met guy,
Speaker 1: uh and he like he actually looked like he had
Speaker 1: bathed that, like his hair was combed, his jewelry was
Speaker 1: in place. He looked like he had yeah, taken a shower,
Speaker 1: like he had done his nails and like that really
Speaker 1: because I had not fully I've been like, well, he's
Speaker 1: worn stuff like that before, right, But it was that
Speaker 1: he wasn't putting the spreads toura into it. It was
Speaker 1: like kind of openly, you know, a a presentation of
Speaker 1: like beauty out Now that it seemed like it, you know,
Speaker 1: it really made an impact. Everybody like kind of lost
Speaker 1: their mind over it, even though it was, you know,
Speaker 1: not that different from some of the stuff he's worn before.
Speaker 1: And I mean there's a really interesting conversation to be
Speaker 1: had there also about like whiteness and who gets to
Speaker 1: look like disheveled and like they don't care, And it's
Speaker 1: really interesting, Like I really realized this in this season
Speaker 1: about preppy clothes where you know, in the early days
Speaker 1: of preppy in like the nineties, nine thirties on the
Speaker 1: campus of Princeton, these guys have like extreme spreads it toura.
Speaker 1: You know, they have holes and that's why they have
Speaker 1: like the patches on their elbows because they they're like
Speaker 1: their sweaters are pilling their their khakis have rough edges.
Speaker 1: You know, they look like kind of kind of gross
Speaker 1: in some ways, like allah early shallow me. But then
Speaker 1: when you get to sort of the evolution of like
Speaker 1: you know, by the nineties, when you have the low
Speaker 1: heads and the origins of street style and like hip
Speaker 1: hop infuse Tommy Hill figure, that's all about looking like
Speaker 1: fresh and looking clean. But it's arguably a lot of
Speaker 1: the same clothes just worn in like really different styles,
Speaker 1: and a lot of it has to do with like
Speaker 1: the culture around who is wearing it. If there is
Speaker 1: a culture where like spreads toura is considered you know,
Speaker 1: cool or not right, Yeah, And I think this also
Speaker 1: ties into sneaker culture, like that's the one place where
Speaker 1: men are allowed to like focus their inner stheet, like
Speaker 1: I think, and at least in some culture. I was
Speaker 1: actually at a child's birthday party. Yeah, I was invited.
Speaker 1: I didn't just like show up judging all the fashion.
Speaker 1: Maybe it was on the west side of Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: which is a totally different world than kind of further
Speaker 1: further east, and like I had Jordan's on and every
Speaker 1: other dead had like the same. They all looked very preppy.
Speaker 1: It was like and I couldn't tell if it was
Speaker 1: like this this style of clothing had really like come
Speaker 1: back in a in a strong way just on the
Speaker 1: west side of l A. Or if I that was
Speaker 1: just but yeah, they all had like kind of loafers
Speaker 1: or you know, canvas like bringing that East coast. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was funny because I was just in d C.
Speaker 1: And I was in Georgetown, and I was like I
Speaker 1: was looking at that prep style. It dead in its
Speaker 1: fucking eye, and it was like every dude is wearing
Speaker 1: a fucking patterned shirt with a fleece vest over it.
Speaker 1: Like I'm not lying, Like there's like a crew of
Speaker 1: five dudes. Everybody had a final shirt, fleece vest, khaki's
Speaker 1: some kind of like boat adjacent shoe. And I was
Speaker 1: like this is I was like freaking me out. I
Speaker 1: was like, is this a bit? But it just felt
Speaker 1: like uniform. I mean, the question is, Miles, do you
Speaker 1: think that's like a resurgence. Do you think that's like
Speaker 1: a new thing, or do you think it's something that's
Speaker 1: never gone away. I don't. I think it's like because
Speaker 1: to me it looks like how my parents would dress kids,
Speaker 1: and like the late eighties, you know, they're like you
Speaker 1: should look like a little yuppie like and that swag.
Speaker 1: And then I think then, like in the nineties, we
Speaker 1: all gore grungy and ship and had are like you know,
Speaker 1: punk or emo or hip hop phase or whatever. And
Speaker 1: then I think, I don't know if for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: I think now it's like I think just people are
Speaker 1: really back to just being able to signal their wealth
Speaker 1: or socioeconomic status to what they wear, even if it's
Speaker 1: not really like their style. It's like, well, when I
Speaker 1: wear this, people know I'm probably an ivy type dude,
Speaker 1: or you know, like I have a good job because
Speaker 1: I'm I'm wearing the uniform of a person that does that.
Speaker 1: You get to talk to like there, I forget the
Speaker 1: name of the company, but there's like a company that
Speaker 1: all of the fashion houses and all of the like
Speaker 1: clothing manufacturers consult to be like, Okay, here's what we're
Speaker 1: doing two years from now, and it raises like a
Speaker 1: really interesting chicken in the egg thing. But yeah, there
Speaker 1: are these like trend forecasting companies. I feel like after
Speaker 1: the pandemic, there's been so much conversation around like what's
Speaker 1: the trend? What's in trend right now? You guys, it's
Speaker 1: like Barbie Core, It's clown Core, it's normal Core, like
Speaker 1: all these cores, you know, they're all these trends right now.
Speaker 1: And I feel like it's just because we're sort of
Speaker 1: reacclimating and trying to like understand each other again. And yeah,
Speaker 1: so it got me thinking about this company called w
Speaker 1: GS and that most like most major fashion houses consult
Speaker 1: to be like what is going to be what is
Speaker 1: going to be in? And so I talked to them
Speaker 1: about trends and how there's so many trends now and
Speaker 1: my personal theory for why preppy and no one uses
Speaker 1: that word, even when I talk to the CEO of
Speaker 1: Brooks Brothers, he was like, we don't use that word.
Speaker 1: And then you look at their website and it's like
Speaker 1: tennis sweaters worn over, you know, it's like the same clothes,
Speaker 1: but now we call them classics, or we call them basic,
Speaker 1: or you know, you go to Uniclo and it's like
Speaker 1: preppy clothes. Those are just classics. And I think why
Speaker 1: they're having a moment now, you know, it's arguable whether
Speaker 1: they're like having a moment or they never went away,
Speaker 1: but it's because they're like a way out from trends
Speaker 1: people who are like, you know what, I can't keep
Speaker 1: up with all these trends. I'm just gonna address like
Speaker 1: in a classic the classic way that I don't have
Speaker 1: to think about. That's that's like like, oh, so we're
Speaker 1: back to being like I don't have the men on
Speaker 1: the band. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. That's a new version
Speaker 1: of that totally. Now fuck it. I will wear my
Speaker 1: fucking powdern flannel with my fleece fest and look, no
Speaker 1: shade if you dressed like that, I don't give a ship.
Speaker 1: I think there's a way to doing well. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I think when I look at it too,
Speaker 1: I don't get as overwhelmed, like because I used to
Speaker 1: be super up on street where from college on, and
Speaker 1: then like I started like having to be in the
Speaker 1: real world and like, oh okay, I don't have the
Speaker 1: money to wear all where this ship all the time.
Speaker 1: But I think it just more forced me into a
Speaker 1: place of like, woa, my what is my own style?
Speaker 1: And I'm just being like, I'm still I'm still fifteen
Speaker 1: years old in the San Fernando Valley, So I will
Speaker 1: wear basketball shorts, sweat pants, T shirts, hoodies and just
Speaker 1: the that's that's kind of work. That's kind of my
Speaker 1: own Like I don't and it's not that I don't
Speaker 1: I'm necessarily saying like I don't have the time to
Speaker 1: figure that sh it out. I'm like, that's just kind
Speaker 1: of where I landed in terms of what my personal
Speaker 1: style is. No, it means you thought, I mean, that's
Speaker 1: like an incredible thing. It just means you know who
Speaker 1: you are and you know what you like. And I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people haven't done that work. You know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you just want to dress in a generally manageable, acceptable,
Speaker 1: culturally acceptable way, that literally opens doors for you. Pretty
Speaker 1: clothes are like a tool, you know. You're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like code switching of clothing. Yeah, where in the
Speaker 1: uniform and like an it's open to anyone. It's like
Speaker 1: the keys to the Kingdom and like you can just
Speaker 1: have them. It's kind of amazing. It is kind of
Speaker 1: like yeah, because it's sort of like what a maga
Speaker 1: hat does. Like if you're out a rally, like you're like,
Speaker 1: guess what, just because I wore this hat and they
Speaker 1: have it doesn't mean because the hat there, they did
Speaker 1: not really analyze more than like, got the hat, all right? Good?
Speaker 1: Would me? You know? I remember once I, yeah, I
Speaker 1: like did coverage at a Trump rally and I was like,
Speaker 1: fucking person, I'm gonna wear a red hat and everybody
Speaker 1: was like, hey, what's that fella like coming out? He
Speaker 1: didn't even say anything on it was this is I
Speaker 1: think just the way I'd be able to navigate these
Speaker 1: people as somebody who's navigated white culture pretty frequently. I'm like,
Speaker 1: this might and it didn't. I think, like you're saying,
Speaker 1: especially for people who are in situations where you're gonna
Speaker 1: be just a snap judgment is going to be made
Speaker 1: on your pearance. You show up in the clothing of
Speaker 1: whatever their world is, and without thinking, they're like, well,
Speaker 1: all the markers are there of person who is if
Speaker 1: the same socio economic bracket or culture one hundred percent
Speaker 1: and I have to say, like, when I did this research,
Speaker 1: I've been working on this for months now, I really
Speaker 1: thought it would be going to Kennebunk Board to like
Speaker 1: interview people named Muffy periodically. But I was about to
Speaker 1: use that word literally, yeah, yeah, I actually I actually
Speaker 1: interviewed someone who was like, yeah, I dated a girl
Speaker 1: named Pussy, like preppy names are the best, but the
Speaker 1: But really I ended up interviewing almost like mostly New Yorkers,
Speaker 1: mostly black and Jewish New Yorkers. And the story is
Speaker 1: like black and Jewish and very Japanese. It is only
Speaker 1: a small percentage of it that is actually like waspy.
Speaker 1: It is a really fascinating story of how like so
Speaker 1: many different groups have taken on different versions of this
Speaker 1: look and actually made it their own. And and now
Speaker 1: I love it, Like knowing the whole history, I'm like,
Speaker 1: this is the coolest your American story there In in
Speaker 1: the first episode of the new season, you talked about
Speaker 1: this book that was sort of a like sociological study
Speaker 1: of Ivy League culture in the mid century that was done.
Speaker 1: Wasn't it like a Japanese author had like come through
Speaker 1: to like take photographs and because it was just It's
Speaker 1: not the sort of thing that you would do if
Speaker 1: you were living in the moment. But because it was
Speaker 1: this like sociological thing, it like really captured all the
Speaker 1: weird little sort of shrugged off gestures and styles and
Speaker 1: and kind of made it very influential, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: It was like no one would think at the time
Speaker 1: that the book was written to be like isn't it
Speaker 1: so amazing They're wearing loafers without socks, but you know
Speaker 1: these this this Japanese author was like this is so interesting,
Speaker 1: Like look at what's going on here. And so this
Speaker 1: book called Take Ivy, which in later episodes of You
Speaker 1: will be revealed is like a pun, it's a it's
Speaker 1: a word play on the Dave Brubeck song Take five
Speaker 1: became like the bible for this look that then had
Speaker 1: a huge moment in the early OS and like Jay
Speaker 1: Crew Jenna Lions era, Like I saw Take Ivy for
Speaker 1: sale at a j Crew around that time, there's like
Speaker 1: this huge preppy revival, you know, like Andre three thousand,
Speaker 1: you know, Backpack Rap, Vampire Weekend, Gossip Girl. There was
Speaker 1: this like preppy moment that I think our time now
Speaker 1: is reference there because like recent nostalgia is also and
Speaker 1: yet totally and it's time. But take Ivy was a
Speaker 1: huge part of it. That's like relic from still like
Speaker 1: like when I look at the images, I'm like, is
Speaker 1: this a J Crew or like early Abercrombie look book
Speaker 1: right exactly exactly, or a main leandor like it looks
Speaker 1: so I mean it looks one must admit it looks good.
Speaker 1: Like they look good. Yeah, yeah, I mean like it's
Speaker 1: it's a vibe, it's it's a particular look, right, but
Speaker 1: don't but but pay attention to your sneakers, people like
Speaker 1: you can you can still dress preppy and not where
Speaker 1: the not where like they're ja cru cells, like to
Speaker 1: the types of sneakers the Nike kill Shot and the
Speaker 1: Stan Smith's and like those were the only sneakers that
Speaker 1: I saw at that birthday party that now people now
Speaker 1: people rock the Alexander McQueen version of Smith. I had,
Speaker 1: like the thicker one to like these are actually six
Speaker 1: dollar versions. I'm like, they still look the soul is
Speaker 1: just thicker. Fine, good for you, you have spent more money.
Speaker 1: But that is not style. And that's another interesting part
Speaker 1: too about fashion is so many people now just to
Speaker 1: quate the fucking price with some level of like aesthetic
Speaker 1: viability or uniqueness. When it's like this ship is sold,
Speaker 1: it's a fucking illusion and you just have just have
Speaker 1: chunky looking stand Smiths on have you covered rep culture
Speaker 1: at all, like people who are doing like replicas of
Speaker 1: like expensive sneakers, like getting them from the factories, like
Speaker 1: people working at the factories. Well, I haven't done it
Speaker 1: with sneakers, but I did do a whole episode where
Speaker 1: I interviewed the icon himself, Dapper Dan, and he Dapper
Speaker 1: Dan most famously like stole yeah, basically soul the like
Speaker 1: Gucci logo and the Louis Bhutan logo in like the
Speaker 1: eighties and nineties, and just print really high quality like
Speaker 1: amazing leather outfit, like he was the first one to
Speaker 1: make jumpsuits like leather, Gucci printed jumpsuits, like they weren't
Speaker 1: doing that like that. The whole reason you see people
Speaker 1: wearing like designer jumpsuits is because they were credible, high
Speaker 1: quality knockoffs. And then the whole saga is like Gucci
Speaker 1: started copying Dapper down. It was like he's ripping off
Speaker 1: who which is? And now it's kind of a happy
Speaker 1: story because now Gucci like kind of bought Dapper Down
Speaker 1: and he works within them, so it's sort of a
Speaker 1: happy ending. Well. Dapper Down said this beautiful thing to
Speaker 1: me that I think about all the time. He said,
Speaker 1: these symbols don't just represent brands, like the interlocking geez,
Speaker 1: represent like prosperity and wellness and and like health in
Speaker 1: a weird way to like have these symbols, they're almost
Speaker 1: like the ancient scarab or the NC. You know, they're
Speaker 1: like powerful symbols that everyone should have access to. And honestly, like,
Speaker 1: I have a I have a pen pal who's incarcerated,
Speaker 1: and the very first letter he sent me has like
Speaker 1: Gucci logos all around the letter, as like that that's
Speaker 1: the power of this stuff. It's not it's like not
Speaker 1: even about the brand anymore. It's just like a symbol
Speaker 1: that means so much more and it has nothing to
Speaker 1: do with like the quality of the leather or or anything.
Speaker 1: So i'mlike, ever since then, I'm like all about knockoffs.
Speaker 1: I think they're they're fantastic. I'll be a like tricky
Speaker 1: terrain for designers to navigate, but so much innovation comes
Speaker 1: from it. It's really interesting. Yeah, and it just also
Speaker 1: I think it forces a conversation about like what makes
Speaker 1: like what's the important part? Is it the visual aesthetic?
Speaker 1: Is that the design of something? Or is it if
Speaker 1: I put it under a fucking like microscope? Is the
Speaker 1: stitching right? Because that's how a real thing is made.
Speaker 1: And it's like, well, am I doing it? Are you
Speaker 1: dressing because you like the way it looks? Or you
Speaker 1: dress because it's purely like a symbol of your wealth
Speaker 1: or a signal of that, And it's it's always funny,
Speaker 1: especially in sneaker culture. You hear people like I would
Speaker 1: never wear a fuck if fake Jordan's or whatever. And
Speaker 1: again it shows how some people have just ascribed like,
Speaker 1: well that the real thing has value and that's something
Speaker 1: I'm going for. And if I don't want the cheap thing,
Speaker 1: because that means you're you don't have what it takes
Speaker 1: to earn like the real thing. But the pursuit of
Speaker 1: that is fucking dumb too, Like it gives a ship
Speaker 1: if you can afford the real things, Like that's dumb
Speaker 1: as fuck. There's nothing objectively cool about that. It's just
Speaker 1: a way to differentiate, and I think it kind of
Speaker 1: blows up the pursuit of like these high end items
Speaker 1: and what they actually really mean. And I love how
Speaker 1: frustrated people get, especially when like celebrity is like like
Speaker 1: Chad Johnson, He's like, I don't I don't buy real
Speaker 1: ship at all. Ever, He's like, why would I waste
Speaker 1: my money? Yeah? Yeah. The rep sneakers subreddit is like
Speaker 1: one large exploration of like, you know, materialism in the
Speaker 1: philosophical sense and like the ship of theseus. It's so
Speaker 1: it's so interesting. Alright, Avery, we could we could talk
Speaker 1: to you for hours about the stuff. Well after that,
Speaker 1: but where can people find you? Follow you, hear you
Speaker 1: all that good stuff? Well, check out articles of interest
Speaker 1: where you get your podcasts called articles of Interest. And
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter. My last name is Truffleman and that's
Speaker 1: my handle tr you f F the l Man. Those
Speaker 1: are the places I live. But thank you. Someone just
Speaker 1: was so fascinating. I'm like, I have so many more
Speaker 1: thoughts on sneaker culture, but yeah, thank you. And is
Speaker 1: there a tweet or some of the work of social
Speaker 1: media you've been enjoying. Um, I've been really enjoying the
Speaker 1: meme about like the spirit Halloween costumes that everyone is
Speaker 1: sharing of just like what is it? What is the meme?
Speaker 1: Like the only costume? Uh? And there was one recently
Speaker 1: with like, I don't know the this episode of SpongeBob
Speaker 1: SquarePants where he makes doodle Bob. Who do you know
Speaker 1: this episode? Yeah? Uh, that's my that's my favorite where
Speaker 1: it's like an image of doodle Bob. It's like the
Speaker 1: only Halloween costume. I love that meme. That's amazing. Miles,
Speaker 1: where can people find you with a tweet you've been enjoying?
Speaker 1: Find me on Twitter and Instagram at Miles of Gray.
Speaker 1: Check Jack and I out on our basketball podcast off
Speaker 1: acual NBA basketball podcast. Somehow they let us keep saying
Speaker 1: our dumb ideas out loud and it's an NBA product.
Speaker 1: It's called Miles and Jack Got Mad Boostie. It's a
Speaker 1: fantastic show. Check in this week. Uh, just always fantastic guest.
Speaker 1: New episode just dropped today. Uh. And also I'm always
Speaker 1: with Sophia Alexandra talking ninety day Fiance over at four
Speaker 1: twenty day Fiance. Now, let's see some tweets that I like. First,
Speaker 1: one has guess Paula Vegan Alan at Paula Vigan, Alan
Speaker 1: tweeted dear Kanye if I was your mother and anlysts
Speaker 1: uh fucking ship got me, and then another one from
Speaker 1: at Soma Kazima tweeting, nah they clapp him back now
Speaker 1: and posted a video of these girls on TikTok doing
Speaker 1: like p o V influencers trying Indian food for the
Speaker 1: first time. And it's just it's just so good because
Speaker 1: that the tweets said, nah they clapp him back now.
Speaker 1: And this is so good because if you've ever seen
Speaker 1: these videos of like white people trying Indian food for
Speaker 1: the first time, it has the exact same vibe of
Speaker 1: it being so exotic sized, like what's this And I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna play the first couple of seconds because it's genius.
Speaker 1: Hi from the shots. And we got Indian food actually,
Speaker 1: but I heard they were similar Pakistan's yeah paki. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we didn't get to gap, but we got chicken tikum
Speaker 1: sala because the manager said it was good. Also he
Speaker 1: said he said a tip is to eat it with
Speaker 1: yogurt and then we have none. I just love their
Speaker 1: fucking paper like big in. These girls are killing it,
Speaker 1: so yeah, shout out to that ticktime. Amazing, that's great.
Speaker 1: Some tweets. I've been enjoying Logan Dean Goes Boy detective tweeter.
Speaker 1: Big Farmership periodically release quay ludes for a limited time,
Speaker 1: like Narco. Mick Ribs, Oh my god, Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Somebody tweeted, oh cool Boobs tweeted. M at cool Boobs tweeted.
Speaker 1: Was just reminded of the Staples logo reveal, and I
Speaker 1: guess this is a historical document, but it's like you
Speaker 1: just kind of have to watch it. But they take
Speaker 1: the L that has like the little bent down staple
Speaker 1: and then it like slowly, like everything else disappears. They
Speaker 1: zoom in on that L and then the L slowly
Speaker 1: like gets an erection so that it looks like a
Speaker 1: giant explodion. Is very strange. I highly recommend you go
Speaker 1: check it out. Also, the Staples logo was cool. I
Speaker 1: don't know why they messed with it. It was good.
Speaker 1: It was obviously staple. And then, uh, somebody tweeted a
Speaker 1: picture I think a photoshop its spirit Halloween costume, conservative
Speaker 1: guy Scared of Cities, and it's just a conservative looking
Speaker 1: dude with like a helicopter on his T shirt that
Speaker 1: says like hold the line and a flag on a
Speaker 1: shirt and it says I saw that thing on the news.
Speaker 1: Too many of those people there can't park forward super duty,
Speaker 1: not scared, bro, This is just a good uh. You
Speaker 1: can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore O'Brien. You
Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter at Daily Zekeeist. We're at
Speaker 1: the Daily Zegheist on Instagram. We have a Facebook fan
Speaker 1: page on a website, Daily Zekeeist dot com where we
Speaker 1: post our episodes. On our footnotes, we link off to
Speaker 1: the information that we talked about in today's episode, as
Speaker 1: well as a song that we think you might enjoy. Miles,
Speaker 1: what song can we think people might names? Man? Time
Speaker 1: for some experimental hip hop from England. This is just
Speaker 1: a group. I don't know. They're called Baby Father, but
Speaker 1: if you know Dean Blunt, this is a project Dean
Speaker 1: Blend is working on and this track is called Penelope
Speaker 1: Freestyle to Beat. It's just like the second I started
Speaker 1: playing and I was like, oh, this instrumental is interesting
Speaker 1: and I always like any any experimental hip hop, so
Speaker 1: check this one out. The fantastic track Penelope free Style
Speaker 1: by baby Father. All right, we will link off to
Speaker 1: that in the footnotes. The days guys a production of
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio
Speaker 1: is the heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. That is going to do
Speaker 1: it for us this morning, back this afternoon to tell
Speaker 1: you what is trending and we will talk to you
Speaker 1: all then. Bye bye m