Speaker 1: I've been receiving a lot of questions lately since God
Speaker 1: told me to put my account public. I had been hiding,
Speaker 1: specifically from all of the issues that were surrounding my
Speaker 1: life in Ohio. And the most common question that keep
Speaker 1: being asked is did you know Jake Wagner was a
Speaker 1: murderer before you married him? This is The Piped and Massacre,
Speaker 1: a production of Katie Studios and iHeartRadio, Season three, episode three.
Speaker 1: The Alaska Wife and the Father figure Courtney Armstrong, a
Speaker 1: television producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Laidecker and Jeff Shane.
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Wagner, whose voice we just heard taken from one
Speaker 1: of her public social media posts, has been something of
Speaker 1: an elusive figure in this case. After the massacre, we
Speaker 1: know the Wagner family liquidated all their assets and moved
Speaker 1: from Pike County to Alaska to start a new life.
Speaker 1: For two years, father Billy Wagner, mother Angela Wagner, eldest
Speaker 1: son George, and youngest son Jake, along with the daughter
Speaker 1: he shared with victim, Hanname Rodin, lived a quiet and
Speaker 1: unremarkable life. They attended a local church regularly, and it
Speaker 1: was through the church that admitted murderer youngest son, Jake Wagner,
Speaker 1: met his soon to be young wife, Elizabeth. Elizabeth, often
Speaker 1: referred to as Beth, as a wide eyed, slim woman
Speaker 1: in her twenties with light blonde hair and blue eyes.
Speaker 1: She paints and was a Sunday school teacher. Elizabeth would
Speaker 1: become the third young woman to step into the Wagner's web.
Speaker 1: Here Special Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa speaking recently to Judge Deering
Speaker 1: and the Defense about the significance of Elizabeth Wagner and
Speaker 1: her whereabouts. It appears she's been in hiding. Judge, we
Speaker 1: would like to interview Beth, who is Jake's ex wife,
Speaker 1: and we've not been provided her address. She's a key
Speaker 1: States witness, we believe, and we have tried to locate her.
Speaker 1: The State says people are in danger, but they have
Speaker 1: not filed anything to preserve or present that issue. Elizabeth
Speaker 1: Wagner basically fled for her life when she left to
Speaker 1: Wagner home. I personally wrote a letter to the Social
Speaker 1: Security Administration to her social Security number changed so that
Speaker 1: she could change her identity and not the aggress of
Speaker 1: potential harm. Understandably so the homicides had been committed by then,
Speaker 1: and she was very much afraid for her life. So
Speaker 1: that is the reason. It is because of potential danger
Speaker 1: to this witness. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. Elizabeth serves as
Speaker 1: a very big piece to this puzzle. She's appeared on
Speaker 1: several lists as a potential witness. It also speaks to
Speaker 1: the fact that there is a pattern here. We were
Speaker 1: able to track on Elizabeth on social media, and because
Speaker 1: she's made her post public, were able to play you
Speaker 1: some clips from those. The most common questions I keep
Speaker 1: being asked is did you know Jake Wagner was a
Speaker 1: murderer before you married him? And the answer is not really.
Speaker 1: Because he came to our church in Alaska, which was
Speaker 1: pastored by Caleb Cinerewski at the time, who was a
Speaker 1: very young preacher. He had vouched for the Wagner family
Speaker 1: and told the congregation that it was his understanding that
Speaker 1: they had been troubled by news reporters, but that it
Speaker 1: had been a slander and that the things were not true.
Speaker 1: So that being the case, I was not exactly set up,
Speaker 1: but in a way horridged to believe that Jake Wagner
Speaker 1: was innocent, So I got to know him. I spent
Speaker 1: a fair amount of time with him and his family,
Speaker 1: saw him every week at church for several months, spend
Speaker 1: a fair amount of time with his daughter, and it
Speaker 1: just came to be that he and his family needed
Speaker 1: to move south from Alaska back to the Lower forty eight.
Speaker 1: I did not know the reasons for this at the time.
Speaker 1: In retrospect, I have some personal opinions as to why
Speaker 1: that may have been, But the main thing I just
Speaker 1: wanted to communicate to people is that no, I was
Speaker 1: not aware that Jake Wagner was involved so intimately with
Speaker 1: these horrible, horrible killings, and that if I had known,
Speaker 1: there's no way in a million years that I ever
Speaker 1: would have married him. I was very, very, very upset
Speaker 1: after all of these things went south so quickly. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'd only just got married and then I find out
Speaker 1: that my husband is not only not who I thought
Speaker 1: he was, but literally a person's worst nightmare. So I
Speaker 1: had to move three times since then, and I am
Speaker 1: not allowed to speak publicly or in private about the
Speaker 1: murders or I would face personal consequences from the legal
Speaker 1: system of Ohio. This was a woman who was by
Speaker 1: all accounts, fearing for her life. Can you imagine being
Speaker 1: a young girl living in Alaska you meet a guy
Speaker 1: through your pastor marry into the family who you now
Speaker 1: know to be a family of killers. There was one
Speaker 1: thing that always struck us, and we weren't really able
Speaker 1: to talk about it too deeply in season two, is
Speaker 1: that on August fifteenth, twenty eighteen, three months before the
Speaker 1: Wagner family was in fact arrested, Elizabeth went to the
Speaker 1: Lace and Pike County and filed a report of threats
Speaker 1: and harassment and that her address at that time was homeless.
Speaker 1: So that just offers a little insight into the life
Speaker 1: that Elizabeth was living. Special Prosecutor Angie Caneppo was recently
Speaker 1: in court detailing the horrific situation Elizabeth Wagner was in
Speaker 1: when she lived with her husband, murderer Jake Wagner, Jake's
Speaker 1: brother George, and their parents, Angela and Billie. It's a
Speaker 1: story that might sound chillingly familiar given what we now
Speaker 1: know about the Wagner's mistreatment of George's ex wife and victim,
Speaker 1: Hanname Rodin, Jake's ex girlfriend. In regards to Elizabeth Wagner,
Speaker 1: she ultimately knew in Bastill, Ohio with them and lived
Speaker 1: with the defendant and his entire family. Again, they'll see
Speaker 1: this same thing happening over and over again, defending his family,
Speaker 1: controlling every movement of the list at Wagner, including anat
Speaker 1: limited to demanding all of her personal identifying information, her passwords,
Speaker 1: et cetera, and downloading tracking applications on the police one
Speaker 1: of her devices, specifically her phone, so when she would
Speaker 1: leave the residents to go to library to apply for
Speaker 1: a job. And this all this information we have on
Speaker 1: the wire conversation between George and Jay on the night
Speaker 1: of their wedding, Jake asked for all of her identifying information,
Speaker 1: including passwords to any emails, social media, etc. I would
Speaker 1: note that was before they consummated their marriage, So that
Speaker 1: is how pervasive this amount of control is. There's a
Speaker 1: few important things to note in what Angie Kneppa just
Speaker 1: laid out. The first is how Elizabeth is the third
Speaker 1: woman who entered the inner circle of the Wagner family
Speaker 1: to end up under their complete control and running for
Speaker 1: her life. The second is a reference Kneppa makes to
Speaker 1: the courted wire conversations. The prosecution is obtained between George
Speaker 1: and Jake Wagner. It begs the question of what else
Speaker 1: will be revealed in soon approaching court proceedings. The accusations
Speaker 1: of Elizabeth again, they accused her of being mildly physically
Speaker 1: abusive with the child and accused her of poisoning them
Speaker 1: with food. And basically it was when miss Wagner accused
Speaker 1: her of poisoning them with food that is when the
Speaker 1: alarms went off in her head because she was privy
Speaker 1: to conversations that they were having about how Tabitha had
Speaker 1: done that. As a reminder, Tabitha is George Wagner's ex
Speaker 1: wife who lived with the family before they took custody
Speaker 1: of her son away. You know, she was led to
Speaker 1: leave that Tabitha was this terrible accusan. But when she
Speaker 1: started being accused of things that they had told her
Speaker 1: they accused Tabitha of, she became very concerned for her
Speaker 1: well being. Jake and Angela Wagner confronted her in the kitchen.
Speaker 1: This was the kitchen is the source of family meetings
Speaker 1: typically amongst the Wagners, and they confronted her because Angela
Speaker 1: had reported to Jake that the child in question had
Speaker 1: claimed used by Beth Wagner, and Beth adamantly denied this,
Speaker 1: And I would note the record that the child never
Speaker 1: repeated that to anybody else, including Jake. But Jade didn't
Speaker 1: tell miss Wagner that if he ever learned that she
Speaker 1: hadn't in fact abused this child, that he would beat
Speaker 1: her with a bat, and that if he didn't do it,
Speaker 1: then his brother George Wood, and if his brother George didn't,
Speaker 1: then Billy Wood, and that would be the right thing
Speaker 1: to do. You want to talk about gas lighting in
Speaker 1: a situation. So Elizabeth, living now with the Wagners, is
Speaker 1: hearing accusations from the Wagners about previous women, about them
Speaker 1: being bad and that they were poisoning the children. Now
Speaker 1: with her, they create these allegations saying that Elizabeth is
Speaker 1: poisoning the children. They're creating these stories and rumors amongst
Speaker 1: each other and then threatening her. If it's true me,
Speaker 1: Jake Wagner, your husband is going to beat you with
Speaker 1: a bat. And if not me, my older brother George,
Speaker 1: he's going to beat you with a bat. Oh wait,
Speaker 1: if not him, my dad, Billy Wagner is going to
Speaker 1: beat you with a bat over a rumor that they're
Speaker 1: starting within their own little weird bubble. I mean, we're
Speaker 1: going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment.
Speaker 1: These alleged threats against Elizabeth Wagner did not only extend
Speaker 1: to her, but to her family as well. Tabitha, George
Speaker 1: Wagner's ex wife and mother of his child, cut ties
Speaker 1: with the Wagners. She ran in the night from their property,
Speaker 1: afraid for her life. We sadly know what happened to
Speaker 1: Hannah may Roden. Finally, Jake's now ex wife, Elizabeth was
Speaker 1: caught living the same nightmare. While Elizabeth was only with
Speaker 1: Jake Wagner for a short time, she met several relatives
Speaker 1: and friends in the Wagner's in a circle. Here's Jeff
Speaker 1: speaking with an anonymous Wagner friend and Angela's half brother, Chris.
Speaker 1: What do you make of Elizabeth? She's a little bit
Speaker 1: out there. I think she was indullible. I don't know.
Speaker 1: She was easy for Jake to target, I think. And
Speaker 1: what about in Alaska Jake's wife, Elizabeth? Did you ever
Speaker 1: hear of her or meet her or talk to her?
Speaker 1: That girl was weird, just strange. Did she come back
Speaker 1: to Ohio with them from Alaska. Yeah, do you know
Speaker 1: what happened to that relationship? Oh Ny split up. I
Speaker 1: don't know exactly why. This is our anonymous Wagner source
Speaker 1: on what she thought about Elizabeth, specifically how living with
Speaker 1: the entire Wagner family might have impacted her. Did you
Speaker 1: know Elizabeth Jake's wife. I didn't know her super well.
Speaker 1: I met her, I think three times, and she was
Speaker 1: a little odd. If you ever watch her things she
Speaker 1: has on like what's that thing called TikTok? Stuff that
Speaker 1: she said on there and by all means like said
Speaker 1: I was against it, saying that they didn't kill no
Speaker 1: one and then supposed me they didn't like Angela was
Speaker 1: a bit you know, and told her what to do
Speaker 1: and you know, stuff like I Yes, I definitely think
Speaker 1: Angela would rule stuff like that with her, especially living
Speaker 1: under her house, especially with the kids. And I definitely
Speaker 1: think whenever Elizabeth started saying that Sudds was calling her
Speaker 1: mom and stuff like that, I think Angela is the
Speaker 1: one that took that way to heart. She didn't like that. No.
Speaker 1: SuDS is the nickname those close to the child used
Speaker 1: for Angela's granddaughter. Jake Wagner and Hannah Roden's daughter. Angela
Speaker 1: obviously was a grandma, But I think she played it
Speaker 1: off more if that she wanted people to think that
Speaker 1: sudden was her kids. Also, if you ever was around them,
Speaker 1: that's just the way it put off. And what was
Speaker 1: your first impression of Elizabeth The first time we met her,
Speaker 1: she was like happy, go lucky and talked and played
Speaker 1: with the kids and everything seemed cool. And then the
Speaker 1: next time it was like she was just set in
Speaker 1: the truck and they was here for like three or
Speaker 1: four hours working on trucks, and she just sent in
Speaker 1: the truck the whole time and didn't want to talk
Speaker 1: to nobody. It was like she didn't want to be here,
Speaker 1: you know, she didn't want to be in Ohio. You know,
Speaker 1: she would have rather not came down here. And then
Speaker 1: when she did, she knew she made the mistake of
Speaker 1: coming here. I don't know why or what. Besides, like
Speaker 1: I said, I think Angela rolled her like one of
Speaker 1: her kids, you know, That's what I think it was.
Speaker 1: I think it was more Angela on her than Jake
Speaker 1: would have been anything like that. Jeff recently spoke with Wendy,
Speaker 1: an old family friend of the web Wagner's about being
Speaker 1: invited to Jake and Elizabeth's wedding. According to Wendy, before
Speaker 1: his arrest, Killer's son Jake Wagner was out and about
Speaker 1: in public, seemingly unbothered. They have this little place called
Speaker 1: the Nail Chick here, and they did this little cute
Speaker 1: fair that had animals and pig races and just a
Speaker 1: few small rides and stuff, and we just kind of
Speaker 1: all ran into each other and sat down and started
Speaker 1: talking about how everybody was, how everybody's been, because we
Speaker 1: haven't seen each other really since we were kids. Wow.
Speaker 1: And so you're up in Alaska. Yes, Like we all
Speaker 1: just kind of like sit back and think, like it's
Speaker 1: kind of weird that you moved to Alaska. I didn't
Speaker 1: expect to run into them there because the Nail Chick
Speaker 1: from where they lived was kind of like an hour
Speaker 1: and a half or so, So I wasn't expecting to
Speaker 1: run into them there. So when we did, I was nice.
Speaker 1: I said hello, you know, we talked a few minutes.
Speaker 1: But I mean that's really the only interaction I've had
Speaker 1: with them that in him inviting us to the wedding.
Speaker 1: Is Elizabeth there with him? If I remember correctly, she
Speaker 1: was with him and George and their mom. That's who
Speaker 1: all was there. While they're speaking to me. I never
Speaker 1: really met his girlfriend, so I'm assuming that's who that was,
Speaker 1: the female that was with him. Can you seem normal?
Speaker 1: Everything with the whole family was kind of like talking
Speaker 1: to normal people. Nothing ever came up about the situation,
Speaker 1: nothing crazy ever came from it. And you didn't go
Speaker 1: to the wedding. I did not. Why not? I don't
Speaker 1: know when they moved here, And like I said, in
Speaker 1: the back of my head, I kind of like was like,
Speaker 1: I wonder if they're involved. I don't involved myself with that.
Speaker 1: I stayed away as far as possible to. Whenever they
Speaker 1: invited me, I was like, oh, you know, that's cool, congratulations,
Speaker 1: but then like hung up the phone, was like, no,
Speaker 1: not going to that. Angela Wagner's role has centered on
Speaker 1: the narrative that she was one pulling the strings, the
Speaker 1: overbearing mother, obsessed with being the ultimate matriarch. But what
Speaker 1: if everyone has it wrong and Billy was calling the shots.
Speaker 1: We last saw fifty one year old Billy Wagner in
Speaker 1: court in February of twenty twenty two. He's facing twenty
Speaker 1: two criminal charges and connection to the killings. At six
Speaker 1: foot six and two hundred and seventy four pounds, Billy
Speaker 1: is an imposing figure, but his hulking stature wasn't the
Speaker 1: only thing that got our attention. In November of twenty eighteen,
Speaker 1: this was his first court appearance regarding the murders, and
Speaker 1: he entered the room with a scowl on his face
Speaker 1: and several noticeable tattoos. The first is on his left arm,
Speaker 1: and this tattoo is described by the Anti Defamation League
Speaker 1: as three interlocking triangles, known as the Knot of the Slain.
Speaker 1: It's of Norse origin. On his right hand, between his
Speaker 1: point of finger and thumb was also a scorpion tattoo.
Speaker 1: Some think the eight segmented scorpion on Billy's trigger finger
Speaker 1: represents the eight rodent victims. It's important to note that
Speaker 1: George and Billy have pleaded not guilty and have not
Speaker 1: yet stood trial for the killings. Here's Katie Studios producer
Speaker 1: Chris Graves speaking with death investigator Joseph's Got Morgan, Stephanie
Speaker 1: and Jeff. Now. I think that people look at Billy
Speaker 1: and my gosh, you know when you see him walking
Speaker 1: into a courtroom. I think that he certainly makes lesser
Speaker 1: men shake. I mean, he is an imposing presence that
Speaker 1: folks have not seen this guy on camera. Do yourself
Speaker 1: a favor and take a look at this guy's just
Speaker 1: physical dimensions, lumbering forth into that courtroom, massive hands, these
Speaker 1: kind of odd tattoos that he's got on his body.
Speaker 1: You know, he's just a big, big man, imposing. You know,
Speaker 1: he is the kind of guy you would not want
Speaker 1: angry at you. So does that hulk that he presents us?
Speaker 1: Does that mean that he's not capable of planning something
Speaker 1: like this? Is it the reverse? Everybody's money has been
Speaker 1: on Angela? How do we know? You know, we have
Speaker 1: heard now from multiple people about how Billy Wagner would
Speaker 1: grind his teeth and it's such a scary visual. Actually
Speaker 1: thought about this when I drove out by the Wagner
Speaker 1: home place. You know, there was a story that came
Speaker 1: up that every time Billy would get angry, his way
Speaker 1: of apologizing to angel was a golden buy her a basket.
Speaker 1: That her walls in her kitchen were decorated with these baskets.
Speaker 1: And wow, isn't that something when you think about that,
Speaker 1: you know, And can you imagine being a family member,
Speaker 1: even a peripheral family member, that walks into the place
Speaker 1: and the first thing you're gonna do is to look
Speaker 1: up on the wall and see if Angel has added
Speaker 1: another basket, you know, because anything that she says or
Speaker 1: does you know the billy's gonna fly out with the handle,
Speaker 1: makes it gonna break something. I don't know. I don't
Speaker 1: know what the family dynamic is, but I tell you this,
Speaker 1: you've kind of got this material representation of it in
Speaker 1: these things. He would buy and she'd put him up
Speaker 1: on the wall. Sure, but you also look at him
Speaker 1: and you know he's only had a seventh grade education,
Speaker 1: and would someone like that be capable of executing a
Speaker 1: plan of this difficulty? Just to play Devil's Advocate, I'll
Speaker 1: play that game. And you know, we can talk about
Speaker 1: this being nuanced intellectually, I guess on one level. But
Speaker 1: when you see the savagery and the brutality that was
Speaker 1: exacted from a rodent family, I don't know is that
Speaker 1: a possibility could he be controlled at that level? Or
Speaker 1: did he sit down and he had a few lucid
Speaker 1: moments and he put this master plan together and he's
Speaker 1: telling everybody what to do. I don't know. Hopefully that's
Speaker 1: going to come out of court. And that's what's so
Speaker 1: compelling about this, because we've got the brutality that's well documented.
Speaker 1: Things are hidden from us at this point in time
Speaker 1: for a good reason. It brings me back to the
Speaker 1: overarching theme here, and that is who's calling the shots.
Speaker 1: Didn't surprise you that it happened to be Jake and
Speaker 1: Angela that took the pleas out of the four of them.
Speaker 1: It's not surprising to me that those two would kind
Speaker 1: of meld together, if you will. And it's going to
Speaker 1: be Billy and George against the world at this point time.
Speaker 1: I hope that they've got sufficient defense counsel because it's
Speaker 1: going to be a hard hill for them to climb.
Speaker 1: Let's stop here for another break. In speaking with people
Speaker 1: who knew the Wagner family, we learned about the dynamics
Speaker 1: in the family, and George and Billy seemed to butt
Speaker 1: heads quite a bit. We also learned that there were
Speaker 1: sort of alliances within this cult like family. Angela and
Speaker 1: Jake were described to us as very close and often together,
Speaker 1: and on the other side of that George and Billy
Speaker 1: were often very close and together, and people went out
Speaker 1: of their way to say that Angela and George did
Speaker 1: not spend a lot of time together, and Jake and
Speaker 1: Billy did not spend a lot of time together. So
Speaker 1: it's interesting to hear that despite being on the outside
Speaker 1: a very tight for some, there were some cracks in
Speaker 1: that and some kind of power dynamics going on behind
Speaker 1: closed doors. And to that end, there had also been
Speaker 1: rumors that accused dad Billy Wagner was possibly not the
Speaker 1: father of youngest son, Jake Wagner. We did, in fact
Speaker 1: go down that rabbit hole and pulled records and in
Speaker 1: fact pulled Jake Wagner's birth certificate and both Billy Wagner
Speaker 1: and Angela Wagner are in fact listed as his parents,
Speaker 1: So we put that rumor to rest. But again in
Speaker 1: the town it spoke to sort of an alliance between
Speaker 1: Angela Wagner and her youngest son, Jake Wagner, and maybe
Speaker 1: how Billy Wagner and George Wagner the eldest son, that
Speaker 1: they were a fractured family. Here again is Angela Wagner's
Speaker 1: have brother Chris, speaking to Jeff about what he thought
Speaker 1: of Billy Wagner and Angelo Wagner's relationship. How would you
Speaker 1: describe Angela and Billy's relationship from when I was around it?
Speaker 1: He treated her like shit and I mean just talked
Speaker 1: to her like she less. And Third, Billy continues to
Speaker 1: proclaim his innocence and his attorneys have requested the death
Speaker 1: penalty be dismissed before the trial. This request has been
Speaker 1: denied in that hearing Judge Randy During ruled that Billy
Speaker 1: Wagner's trial will start no later than October thirty first,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. Based on our research, Billy Wagner has
Speaker 1: been in trouble with the law before. Charges include more
Speaker 1: serious ones like tampering with evidence and receiving stolen property
Speaker 1: in two thousand and nine. There are also some minor
Speaker 1: offenses such as speeding, driving without mud flaps on his truck,
Speaker 1: and voting without flotation devices. It should be noted that
Speaker 1: the last charge happened in Alaska, so post Road and murders.
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner was enjoying some time on the lake. Frederica
Speaker 1: Wagner is Billy Wagner's mother. Patricia worked for many years
Speaker 1: for Frederica Patricia was also accused murderer George Wagner's former
Speaker 1: mother in law. All that to say, Patricia has many
Speaker 1: in roads to the Wagner's Frederick again staying Angela, she
Speaker 1: always believed that Angela married Billy for the money. She
Speaker 1: thinks Angela got bregnant just to trap Billy so she
Speaker 1: could get to Wagner money. Do you think Angela felt that?
Speaker 1: And Angela could tell that Frederica did not like her
Speaker 1: and not approve of her. Oh yeah, they never did
Speaker 1: get along, I know you. One time she worked for
Speaker 1: freder Quinn. I don't know what all that was over.
Speaker 1: Patricia's relationship with Frederica was a working one, but the
Speaker 1: two were very close and Patricia got intimate insights into
Speaker 1: the Wagner family's life, especially Frederica and her late husband,
Speaker 1: Bob Wagner Billy's parents. What was Frederica's husband like? He
Speaker 1: was a sweetheart. He didn't cause no trouble for nobody.
Speaker 1: He stayed on the farm except for him, Govid Cracker's
Speaker 1: a good grocery shopping. He stayed on the farm and
Speaker 1: worked with him horses until past dark, and Frederica would
Speaker 1: get on to him all time, but working too long
Speaker 1: and too hard, especially the older he got. And we're
Speaker 1: sitting there and they run one day and he said
Speaker 1: the sweetest thing, and I'll never forget it. But sitting
Speaker 1: there watching the horse races, and Frederica came in. She said,
Speaker 1: talk to Bob, and Jesus, oh, you don't want to
Speaker 1: seem old. What I can say. He looked her, and
Speaker 1: he's a sweetheart. When I look at you, I see
Speaker 1: you the day I met you. Jesus gettable. And she's
Speaker 1: been down to give him a big old kids And
Speaker 1: that was the sweetest thing I'd ever seen in my life.
Speaker 1: I'm thankful that Bob had Alzheimer's there when all this happened,
Speaker 1: so he didn't really know what was going on. And
Speaker 1: it kills me that Frederick has to go through it.
Speaker 1: Frederica and Bob Wagner had a long marriage and worked
Speaker 1: on a horse farm. They owned the Flying w In
Speaker 1: addition to raising prize ponies, the Wagner's also bred dogs.
Speaker 1: It seems a wholesome living, but there have been some
Speaker 1: rumors of Wagner's misdeeds. Turns out that Frederica Wagner, often
Speaker 1: known as the pious head of the hard working Wagner
Speaker 1: family was umbrelled with some questionable dealings on behalf of
Speaker 1: her son, Billy. We know that Billy and Angela Wagner
Speaker 1: were convicted of receiving stolen property in twenty twelve. The
Speaker 1: specifics of the following story are Patricia's recollection of events.
Speaker 1: Here again Patricia speaking with Stephanie and Jeff. A lot
Speaker 1: of Billy's pads. Billy's gotten in trouble and gone to
Speaker 1: jail board do you know for what? Yeah, they would
Speaker 1: pull up to stop and look Billy's rig up to
Speaker 1: a drailer and take off with it in whatever goods
Speaker 1: we're inside. They would sail and I got bust to
Speaker 1: board a couple of times Billy had the rig and
Speaker 1: what got him god is but they sold a truckload
Speaker 1: of boots and they took them to the slea market
Speaker 1: sell them. And the police said they would them gotten
Speaker 1: caught if they just sold the boots by themselves. That
Speaker 1: they sold the boots in the box which has tracking
Speaker 1: numbers on them. To what got them caught. Billie Wagner
Speaker 1: and Angela went to jail over that, and a couple
Speaker 1: of other people had gone to jail with them because
Speaker 1: they were in on it too. We've heard versions of
Speaker 1: this story. The only reason I know is because I
Speaker 1: was sent to the jail house in Pike County to
Speaker 1: put money on their books. That's the only reason I know.
Speaker 1: So it's not here say for me put money on
Speaker 1: their books. That means like for commissary and phone calls
Speaker 1: and stuff. Yeah, who called you and asked you to
Speaker 1: do that? My boss? Oh Frederica, okay, got it. And
Speaker 1: if money wasn't really an issue, because we've always heard
Speaker 1: too that, oh, well, the Waxman's family's prestigious and they
Speaker 1: have money, they have money, and yes, Frederick it does
Speaker 1: have some old money. But most of the money that
Speaker 1: Fredericka has she worked herself to the bone, her and
Speaker 1: her husband boat. But Billy was spoilt. He got everything,
Speaker 1: and Bob would get so mad that Frederica would hand
Speaker 1: Billy money like you wouldn't believe it, just handed to
Speaker 1: it because if she didn't get threw a fit. So
Speaker 1: she's builty. It's just one faure after another with him.
Speaker 1: But it breaks my heart to see her and her
Speaker 1: daughter and her other son go thruthian. And my honest
Speaker 1: opinion is, yeah, part of it may have been behind
Speaker 1: but there's something greater behind it. They've drug other family
Speaker 1: members in, cousins and girlfriends and brothers. To me, it
Speaker 1: maybe have something to do with that one little girl,
Speaker 1: But to me, there's a bigger reason. You can't tell
Speaker 1: me that they walked in and killed eight people over
Speaker 1: one child. I'm never gonna believe that. I don't know
Speaker 1: why they did it, or if they did it for
Speaker 1: somebody else. I don't know that Between man God, whoever
Speaker 1: they did it for. Who that may be is not
Speaker 1: clear to us. As we await upcoming child dates, more
Speaker 1: evidence continues pouring out. According to this document, if it's true,
Speaker 1: George only goes along at the last minute to protect
Speaker 1: Jake from his own father. The document Anjeanette is referring
Speaker 1: to is Motion eighty filed by George Wagner's defense attorneys.
Speaker 1: What's going on when big brother thinks I gotta go
Speaker 1: along to protect my little brother because dad might kill him,
Speaker 1: it doesn't really kind of make you think who is
Speaker 1: calling the shots in this operation. The state made a
Speaker 1: deal with the devil basically anyway says we made a
Speaker 1: deal with the devil. Unfortunate in this case, well, it
Speaker 1: seems that mister Wagner drives semitruck for a living and
Speaker 1: the government put a bug in it. They're saying, basically,
Speaker 1: the cops were doing things to try to egg these
Speaker 1: people on so that they would say things on wiretaps.
Speaker 1: It's called tickling the wire. It's very common they put
Speaker 1: information out and then see if anything's come of it.
Speaker 1: I think they use this in mob cases and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. I'm looking at this and I'm thinking to myself,
Speaker 1: what on earth could be so damning in these recordings.
Speaker 1: I guess George in the scenario was ready to die
Speaker 1: for his brother. That would be one hell of a
Speaker 1: car ride, wouldn't it. More on that next time. If
Speaker 1: you're enjoying The Pikes and Massacre, listen to our other
Speaker 1: hit series Crazy and Love. New episodes there every Tuesday
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. For more information and case photos,
Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. The Pikes
Speaker 1: and Massacre is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Graves,
Speaker 1: and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Tis,
Speaker 1: Music by Jared Aston, Audio mixing by Ken Novak, The
Speaker 1: Piked and Massacre is a production of Katie Studios and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
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