Speaker 1: Oh boy. So when this classic episode is uh, hitting,
Speaker 1: hitting your earbells, hitting your ear drums, uh, you are
Speaker 1: probably if you're in the US, you're probably aware that
Speaker 1: it is trick or treating season, right, Halloween big big
Speaker 1: time for candy. As a matter of fact, the end
Speaker 1: of the year in the West is always a big
Speaker 1: time for candy. People like desserts. They're like the sweets
Speaker 1: you get together. People are like, you know, happy Hannukah,
Speaker 1: Merry Christmas, whatever, And here, you know, it's the time
Speaker 1: of year when even people who don't ordinarily eat sweet
Speaker 1: things make an exception. And if you are not from
Speaker 1: the US and you have ever visited, you have probably
Speaker 1: been surprised by learning how sweet everything is. There is
Speaker 1: some form of sweetness, whether an artificial sweetener, plain old
Speaker 1: sugar or cane sugar or what have you. It's in everything,
Speaker 1: and we have to ask how we got there. Matt,
Speaker 1: is this one of the ones? This feels like almost
Speaker 1: similar to the glitter episode. I don't think. I don't
Speaker 1: think when we started the show that either of us
Speaker 1: knew just how deep the sugar conspiracy goes. No, we
Speaker 1: did not know, but as we have learned, it's in everything.
Speaker 1: It's in everything. So let's find out just how sweet
Speaker 1: this sugar conspiracy goes sweet. Yeah, it goes real sweet.
Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello,
Speaker 1: and welcome back to the show. My name is Matt
Speaker 1: Rama ding Dong. Y'all, my name is no. They call
Speaker 1: me Ben. You are you and you're the most important
Speaker 1: part of this show. Thanks for dropping by to stuff
Speaker 1: that they don't want you to know. It's really good
Speaker 1: to see you. I'm really sorry about that, Ramo Lama day.
Speaker 1: I was just trying something new. I thought it was good.
Speaker 1: I was talking. I was talking to to him or
Speaker 1: her that is listening. Come on, oh my bad to
Speaker 1: all of them. Wait, look at me making it all
Speaker 1: about me. You've got a song in your heart. My friends,
Speaker 1: hut it out. We are we are vast, we contain multitudes,
Speaker 1: according to Walt Whitman, and we're not any of us
Speaker 1: a single solitary thing. But due to the nature of
Speaker 1: today's episode, we do want to establish at the beginning
Speaker 1: that we are not doctors. This is true, no m
Speaker 1: d here at least no any I'm not a physician's assistant,
Speaker 1: not in our nh. Yeah, well I guess we should
Speaker 1: amend that because your nol is a music doctor. I'm
Speaker 1: a doctor of funk. Yeah, and that's not even true.
Speaker 1: And that's a that's a love doctor, doctor of love. Well,
Speaker 1: you know we're gonna leave it there, man, But seriously,
Speaker 1: this is not medical advice. This is, however, a pretty
Speaker 1: scary story, and it starts off so sweetly. Today we're
Speaker 1: talking about sugar. We're gonna tell it to you completely.
Speaker 1: So maybe we could talk about some of our personal experiences.
Speaker 1: Are you guys fans of sweets sweet things? I used
Speaker 1: to be much more so, but in my cantankerous old age,
Speaker 1: I feel like I have sort of soured to the sweet.
Speaker 1: I'm much more of a savory guy. Back before my
Speaker 1: house stuff works days, mountain dew was my lifeblood with
Speaker 1: the monster days after that, right, h yeah, monster without sugar. Though,
Speaker 1: I've never been a sugary energy drink person, but the
Speaker 1: mountain dew, my god, I don't. I don't particularly eat
Speaker 1: sweet things. I used to love soda. That was the
Speaker 1: one exception. And the I'm sure my dentist is grateful
Speaker 1: for that. But the the one thing that I always
Speaker 1: found weird in social situations is if someone offers you
Speaker 1: a piece of cake because it's somebody else's birthday, you're
Speaker 1: kind of obligated to at least take a piece. And
Speaker 1: that would be the only time that I have is
Speaker 1: sweet because people were with the soft rules of society
Speaker 1: obligating me to do it. You know. I just said
Speaker 1: all that stuff, and last night I was at a
Speaker 1: farmer's market and bought a big old piece of teremy sue. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's mostly coffee, though, see, every once in a while,
Speaker 1: mostly coffee. You gotta reward yourself, I feel. I feel
Speaker 1: that every once in a while. Yeah. And so we
Speaker 1: all in the United States and abroad, we all continually
Speaker 1: run into sweet things, right, And the basis of those
Speaker 1: sweet things most of the time is sugar. But what
Speaker 1: is sugar? Why? It's a simple carbohydrate. Ben It's responsible
Speaker 1: for that sweet taste in all those foods that you
Speaker 1: daily beloved. Why is it called a carbohydrate, Matt Wells Simple,
Speaker 1: it's because it's got a carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen. Well,
Speaker 1: it's like it's like in terms of calories. So one
Speaker 1: teaspoon of white sugar has about sixteen calories, about four
Speaker 1: per gram. And it gives you that quick boom, that snap,
Speaker 1: that snap crack, that ramamding dog, that rammeding dogs. It worked. Uh.
Speaker 1: It gives you that quick dose of energy so your
Speaker 1: body can process in. Your body can process it faster
Speaker 1: than complex carbohydrates or proteins. But friends and neighbors be
Speaker 1: aware if you eat too much sugar, the excess energy
Speaker 1: may be stored as fat. Remember that part because it's
Speaker 1: very important later. But sugar isn't just a sweetener, right,
Speaker 1: It's also of super useful preservative. So, for example, sugar
Speaker 1: helps to hinder the growth of bacteria in jam um.
Speaker 1: It can also be used as a bulking agent or
Speaker 1: an additive to food that gives certain kinds of textures. Um.
Speaker 1: And sometimes even it's added to accelerate fermentation or to
Speaker 1: change the boiling or freezing point of a particular dish.
Speaker 1: You want to talk about fermentation. Uh, we gotta get
Speaker 1: into beer really fast. I had no idea how much
Speaker 1: sugar was in beer. Oh yeah, yeah, until i I've
Speaker 1: really got into I p a s for a little
Speaker 1: bit there and there was a list that came out
Speaker 1: in I think maybe that was looking at specifically the
Speaker 1: big Foot Sierra Nevada beer, which was one of my favorites,
Speaker 1: and the thing it was like eating a slice of
Speaker 1: cake every every beer you had. That's true, even the
Speaker 1: beer that is advertised as light will have a higher
Speaker 1: high have a level of sugar involved. That might surprise people,
Speaker 1: because that's how you make it right, right fermentation. So
Speaker 1: when we hear the words sugar, most of us probably
Speaker 1: think of table sugar. You know that white stuff. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: the crystalline, insanely sweet thing we buy grocery stores. But
Speaker 1: the truth is there are multiple kinds of sugars. We
Speaker 1: have a couple of examples here too. Fructose, the stuff
Speaker 1: is found in all kinds of fruits. You can find
Speaker 1: it in honey as well. My personal favorite galactose because
Speaker 1: it sounds like it comes from space, and that's actually
Speaker 1: found in milk and also dairy products. And then there's
Speaker 1: good old glucose, which you find it honey, fruits and vegetables.
Speaker 1: It is a good friend of fructose, that old glucose.
Speaker 1: You also got lactose, again coming from milks. You can
Speaker 1: also find or you can also make this from glucose
Speaker 1: and galactose, which is fun. Then you have maltose or
Speaker 1: maltos found in barley, malt sucrose, which is made up
Speaker 1: of glucose and fructose and found in plants, and the last,
Speaker 1: but not least, the absolute best, zilos found in wood
Speaker 1: or straw. Why do you like that one because it's zilos.
Speaker 1: It's not like a transformer or something. Yeah, why are
Speaker 1: you a zilos supremacist? Now? Well kidding? Yes. Besides, besides
Speaker 1: beets and sugarcane, sugar can also be derived from honey
Speaker 1: and a lot of fruits like dates or coconuts. Uh,
Speaker 1: and tree SAPs can also be sources of sugar. And
Speaker 1: this table sugar stuff, let's just call it grocery store sugar. Uh.
Speaker 1: It's it's called sucrose and it comes from sugar beets
Speaker 1: or sugarcane, and sucrose appears and all these other plants too,
Speaker 1: along with some of the other people you heard from
Speaker 1: our greatest hits just a second ago. Glucose and fructos,
Speaker 1: and it's actually in every plant since sugar and oxygen
Speaker 1: are products of photosynthesis, but unlike sugar, beets and sugarcane.
Speaker 1: A lot of other plants don't sucros in a large
Speaker 1: enough quantity to harvest, so it's more like a trace.
Speaker 1: So the sugar we're going to discuss today is mostly
Speaker 1: going to be derived from those sugar beets and that
Speaker 1: sugar cane, which is probably the one you may have
Speaker 1: heard of the most. That's when I think of sugar,
Speaker 1: I think of sugar cane. Um, And I'm not really
Speaker 1: sure why. I don't know what pop culture reference taught
Speaker 1: me about sugar cane as a kid. Well, there's a
Speaker 1: sonic youth song called sugar cane maybe lacky sugar cane
Speaker 1: standing in the rain very nice, so so thank you know. Um. So,
Speaker 1: these sugar beets are grown throughout the world, in Europe, Asia,
Speaker 1: the Middle East, parts of North Africa, and South America.
Speaker 1: Than sugarcane, on the other hand, you need a tropical climate,
Speaker 1: you need semi tropical climates, something that's nice and warm
Speaker 1: and wet, and it's grown in the southern United States,
Speaker 1: South America, Africa, South Asia, and also the South Pacific.
Speaker 1: Hold on, hold on, okay, let's stop this train for
Speaker 1: one second. We would be remiss if we didn't mention
Speaker 1: something that I know you're thinking about already, Ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 1: High fructose corn syrup HFCs, as its name applies. This
Speaker 1: stuff comes from corn spoiler, not sugarcane or beats. Was
Speaker 1: creating the nineties sixties, and it's an additive now found
Speaker 1: in so many processed foods, including a boatload of sodas.
Speaker 1: It's become popular for food manufacturers because it's cheaper than
Speaker 1: the table sugar. It's also pretty controversial because people believe
Speaker 1: it contributes to obesity and that the body treats this
Speaker 1: mix of the specific kind of fructose mix differently so ordinary. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and you'll hear are all kinds of stuff about it.
Speaker 1: If you go to the sugar lobby, they're gonna tell
Speaker 1: you that it's essentially glucose with a little more fructose
Speaker 1: than regular corn syrup. Yeah. I think that mixes like
Speaker 1: fifty five uh fructose to glucose something like that, and
Speaker 1: then regular corn syrups almost all glucose. Right, Yeah, it's not.
Speaker 1: It's when they say, hi, they just need more than
Speaker 1: half exactly. So we have all we have this wealth
Speaker 1: of sugars, its wealth of sweet opportunities. How much do
Speaker 1: we eat in the US? Funny you should ask that
Speaker 1: I have a stat right here in front of me.
Speaker 1: The per capita consumption of refined sugar in the United
Speaker 1: States of America has swung between twenty seven and forty
Speaker 1: six kilograms sixty and a hundred and one pounds, respectively
Speaker 1: in the last forty years. According to data from the
Speaker 1: United States, in oh eight, people were consuming over sixty
Speaker 1: pounds of added sugar per year. And this does not
Speaker 1: include fruit juices, which as we know, contains its own. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and today the US is the number one sugar consumer.
Speaker 1: And these recent statistics, just to give a sense of
Speaker 1: perspective over time, indicate that the average person consumes about
Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty six point four grams daily. Uh.
Speaker 1: This can fluctuate over time, and we should probably make
Speaker 1: a note about the danger of averages. This country is huge.
Speaker 1: It's we're talking about a population of almost three hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty million people, uh, three eighteen point nine as.
Speaker 1: But when we have a sample size that large, what
Speaker 1: that means is de pay on the methodology of this average.
Speaker 1: That means there could be someone who just somehow eats
Speaker 1: a negligible amount of sugar all year, and maybe someone
Speaker 1: who eats six times the daily dosage every single day.
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, because if if we look at the
Speaker 1: caloric intake of a hundred and twenty six point four
Speaker 1: grams of sugar, it's roughly five hundred and five. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be a little off. Let's say over
Speaker 1: five hundred calories per day of just sugar. It's crazy, man.
Speaker 1: And you can find some great statistics on sugar consumption
Speaker 1: in the US as well as sugar consumption in the
Speaker 1: rest of the world. So if we take that other number,
Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty six point four grams per day
Speaker 1: in the United States, the next runner up would be
Speaker 1: Germany with a hundred and two point nine grams, so
Speaker 1: still still pretty high up there. And then if we
Speaker 1: go down to the bottom, uh, in India, for instance,
Speaker 1: people will have only five point one grams of sugar
Speaker 1: per day. So there's a lot of variants here across
Speaker 1: across the world. But when we get closer closer to
Speaker 1: the twist here, how much should we eat? That's a
Speaker 1: great question. Well, the World Health Organization has some opinions. Uh.
Speaker 1: They recommend that you have less than ten percent of
Speaker 1: your total energy intake from free sugars. It's the equivalent
Speaker 1: to about fifty grams around twelve level teaspoons for a
Speaker 1: person of healthy body weight consuming about two thousand calories
Speaker 1: a day, but ideally it should be less than five
Speaker 1: and you have additional health benefits. This is tricky because
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that you don't think would have
Speaker 1: a lot of sugar in it is just inundated with
Speaker 1: this everywhere. And fifty grams yes a day, Yes, that's
Speaker 1: like a pile. That's like a massive mountain of sugar.
Speaker 1: If you think about it visually, it is, but then
Speaker 1: you think about how much we're actually eating is the
Speaker 1: average grams? I mean, that's it's insane, probably largely because
Speaker 1: if it's maybe it's preservative qualities. So like if you
Speaker 1: like microwave meals, for example, it's got sugar in it
Speaker 1: because and you wouldn't think that my lasagna would have
Speaker 1: sugar in it, but it's in there because it's helping
Speaker 1: to preserve the frozen food. Well. Yeah, and specifically the
Speaker 1: w H I was talking about free sugars here, that
Speaker 1: phrase free sugars is very important. We're not talking about fruits.
Speaker 1: We're not talking at anything that has naturally occurring sugars. Um.
Speaker 1: It's sugars that's added in a production, right right, added
Speaker 1: the food or drinks by the manufacturer, or the cook,
Speaker 1: or even the consumer, because you know, to each their
Speaker 1: own when it comes to eating habits, a lot of
Speaker 1: people will just pour sugar and stuff. I'm sure you
Speaker 1: gotta take that coffee, black man, It's the only way. Yes.
Speaker 1: According to the American Heart Association, the maximumount of added
Speaker 1: sugars you should eat per day are for men, a
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty calories per day. That's thirty seven point
Speaker 1: five grams or nine teaspoons. Okay, not too bad. For
Speaker 1: women is a hundred calories per day or twenty five
Speaker 1: grams six teaspoons. We've been talking about a lot of
Speaker 1: numbers here, so let's put all these numbers into perspective. No.
Speaker 1: I love that you pointed out that is a pile
Speaker 1: if you imagine it visually. So one twelve ounce can
Speaker 1: of coke Coca Cola, for instance, contains a hundred and
Speaker 1: forty calories from sugar. A regular Snickers bar regular size
Speaker 1: contains a hundred and twenty calories from sugar God, so
Speaker 1: one soda a day if you're a dude, according to
Speaker 1: the American Heart Association, already put you like close to
Speaker 1: your limit. That's so upsetting to me. I think, you
Speaker 1: know what. I think. That's why after working here, I
Speaker 1: stopped drinking sugary sodas. Yeah, that was a big deal
Speaker 1: for me. Um. I just switched to uh soda water
Speaker 1: like Lacroix or sam Pella Greena or whatever, and um,
Speaker 1: that satisfied my craving for the bubbles. I really like
Speaker 1: the bubbles. I find it very refreshing. But I just
Speaker 1: literally don't drink soda ever. If maybe I rarely go
Speaker 1: to a fast food restaurant, I might get a coke
Speaker 1: with my fries and mom Burger, but I mean maybe
Speaker 1: twice a month. Yeah, I also used to drink it
Speaker 1: quite frequently. But I'm I'm glad that I'm I had
Speaker 1: an amicable breakup with soda. We're still friends, you know,
Speaker 1: we might might hang out once a month or something,
Speaker 1: but we're not gonna live together anymore. Yeah, I've got
Speaker 1: a really bad relationship with aspartame. Now all the other
Speaker 1: the weird one, what is it's uh zylatl zilatol. Yes, though,
Speaker 1: and this is without even touching on artificial sweeteners. We
Speaker 1: want to give you these numbers just from these various
Speaker 1: types of sugar, not even counting artificial sweeteners. And I'm
Speaker 1: glad you pointed that out, Matt, because we want to
Speaker 1: paint the picture of just how popular this substance is,
Speaker 1: how um, how much it permeates the the food market,
Speaker 1: especially in the US, but in other places as well.
Speaker 1: How do we get to the place that we are currently,
Speaker 1: So glad you asked, And we're going to talk about
Speaker 1: that right after a quick word from our sponsor. Once
Speaker 1: upon a time, more than five thousand years ago, Polynesians
Speaker 1: used sugarcane as a sweetener, and the substance eventually made
Speaker 1: it to India, and from India it spread westward, aided
Speaker 1: by pillaging and trade that came with the conquest of
Speaker 1: Darius the Persian Emperor and Alexander the Great, who overthrew
Speaker 1: the Persian Empire and who, by the way, died when
Speaker 1: he was only thirty two. So let's fast forward to
Speaker 1: fourteen nine three. Cristobald Cologne, on the wise known street
Speaker 1: named Christopher Columbus brought sugarcane to the Caribbean, and it
Speaker 1: was a perfect environment for growing this crop. The ferral
Speaker 1: ground led to the development of a massive sugarcane industry
Speaker 1: in what they called the New World. Over the next
Speaker 1: few centuries, plantations sprouted up throughout the Caribbean, the West Indies,
Speaker 1: and South America, and they were fueling sugar. They were
Speaker 1: also fuelling the slave trade. These two trades were inextricably intertwined.
Speaker 1: During these years, sugar finally became cheap enough to be
Speaker 1: accessible to most Europeans. And until then they've been considered
Speaker 1: a luxury. And do you know what they called it?
Speaker 1: White gold? For real, they called it white gold. That's
Speaker 1: what the British colonists called it. And it was the
Speaker 1: engine of the slave trade and brought millions of millions
Speaker 1: of people from Africa to the America's beginning in the
Speaker 1: early sixteenth century. Like think like fifteen oh five. And
Speaker 1: this means that the history of every nation in the Caribbean,
Speaker 1: much of South America, and parts of the southern United
Speaker 1: States have been forever shaped by sugarcane plantations that were
Speaker 1: started as cash crops by European superpowers. Now it's crazy
Speaker 1: to think about how much money was generated here for
Speaker 1: the owners of these companies that were producing it, the
Speaker 1: the different far owners. There's a lot of money going around,
Speaker 1: and that profit was so significant that it may have
Speaker 1: even actually helped America achieve independence from Great Britain because
Speaker 1: it allowed money to buy the stuff that's required to
Speaker 1: start a war. You know, I have in my head
Speaker 1: this this idea that if if there was a way
Speaker 1: to do it without just atrocious chattel slavery, it would
Speaker 1: be kind of cool to have your profession as sugar tycoon.
Speaker 1: You know those exist, don't they? They do? They do
Speaker 1: in the present day. What's the what's the massive company there?
Speaker 1: There's a huge company that gets crazy subsidies in the US.
Speaker 1: It's the one that's in all the stores, the grocery
Speaker 1: store sugar that we always talk about. Is it Dixie,
Speaker 1: Dixie Dixie. There's gotta be a tycoon at the end
Speaker 1: of that tunnel. Yeah, it's Dixie Sugar. There's I'm sure
Speaker 1: there are others been they're out there. Yeah, a big bag. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, look for the look for it in the
Speaker 1: big bag. Dixie sugar, the old blood prash sugar. That
Speaker 1: look for it in the giant bag, for it in
Speaker 1: the giant bag. From seventeen fifteen, there were near constant
Speaker 1: wars consuming much of Europe. British naval blockades forced Europe
Speaker 1: to look for an alternative to cane sugar. The eventual
Speaker 1: solution they found was the sugar beat, and since this period,
Speaker 1: Europe has gotten much of its sugar from beats. So
Speaker 1: let's look at it today. Despite the evidence that too
Speaker 1: much sugar can have damaging and dilatorious effects, it remains
Speaker 1: immensely popular around the globe. We are literally, on a
Speaker 1: primal level, wired to love this stuff. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: our ancestors or even things you came before us. Uh.
Speaker 1: You naturally associate uh sweet sensation or taste with something
Speaker 1: being safe to eat. Yeah. Yeah, if it's bitter, you
Speaker 1: don't want to eat it. If it's sweet, that means
Speaker 1: the bugs are probably attracted to it and they eat
Speaker 1: it right that it isn't that kind of how it
Speaker 1: went exactly. So here's some examples of the bad things
Speaker 1: that can happen related to sugar intake. First, let's start
Speaker 1: with diabetes. As a twenty nine point one million people,
Speaker 1: or nine point three percent of the US population of
Speaker 1: diabetes and that's diagnosed undiagnosed would say eight point one
Speaker 1: million people, and about a third of the people who
Speaker 1: have diabetes are undiagnosed obesity. This is a stereotype that
Speaker 1: comes into play with the US which if you're not,
Speaker 1: if you haven't ever visited here, I promise you it's
Speaker 1: it's a pretty cool place. You'll you'll have fun, it's great.
Speaker 1: Not all the stereotypes are true. More than two thirds,
Speaker 1: or sixty eight point eight percent of adults are considered
Speaker 1: by the government to be qualified as either overweight or obese.
Speaker 1: UM more than one third, thirty five point seven percent
Speaker 1: of adults are considered to be obese, and then you
Speaker 1: can see you can see the stats here. One of
Speaker 1: the biggest killers of any American, regardless of genetic history,
Speaker 1: creed age, etcetera, is heart disease. It is the leading
Speaker 1: cause of death for both men and women in this country,
Speaker 1: about one in every four deaths, and it's the most
Speaker 1: common type of heart diseases coronary heart disease c h
Speaker 1: d UH. In two thousand fourteen, it killed about three
Speaker 1: sixty five thousand people in this country. Someone has a
Speaker 1: heart attack every forty two seconds and each minute someone
Speaker 1: dies from a heart disease related events. And of course
Speaker 1: cavities curse you soda geez. So this is this is bad.
Speaker 1: Sugar is bad. Sugar is is leading to this stuff.
Speaker 1: Sugar definitely plays a role. It would be irresponsible for
Speaker 1: us to put everything at the feet of shore, but
Speaker 1: it definitely, it definitely plays role. And now our question
Speaker 1: is just how bad is this stuff? And how did
Speaker 1: we start eating so much of it? Can I say
Speaker 1: it been? Can I take? Here's where it gets you
Speaker 1: do it? You do? It's where it gets crazy. In
Speaker 1: September of three, doctors released a paper in the Journal
Speaker 1: of the American Medical Association, or since we're fans of acronyms,
Speaker 1: jamma jambo, so yes, so jamma this This paper was
Speaker 1: called Sugar Industry and Coronary Heart Disease Research colon a
Speaker 1: historical analysis of internal industry documents, and this paper revealed
Speaker 1: frightening evidence of a cover up. Not a conspiracy theory, Oh,
Speaker 1: friends and neighbors know, a real life conspiracy. Finally got
Speaker 1: one right, Here's what happened. So there was evidence that
Speaker 1: sugar had had a role to play in c HD
Speaker 1: coronary heart disease. We know it now, but other people
Speaker 1: knew it back in the nineteen fifties. The industry and
Speaker 1: the people that they were paying to research knew it.
Speaker 1: And things were not looking so good for the sugar manufacturers.
Speaker 1: The science showed that what they were selling and the
Speaker 1: way they were selling it was potentially very dangerous. So
Speaker 1: they took action. They came clean and told the public
Speaker 1: that they would be responsible and they would uh, they
Speaker 1: would work with the f d A to restrict unreasonable
Speaker 1: amounts of sugar I'm kidding. Instead, they they had a
Speaker 1: trade organization that was called, get this, the Sugar Research Foundation.
Speaker 1: Sounds legit. Yeah. What did they do? Well? They they
Speaker 1: went ahead and paid a group of three Harvard scientists
Speaker 1: the equivalent of about fifty thousand dollars in today's dollars,
Speaker 1: which is not a bad salary to publish a review
Speaker 1: of research on sugar in nineteen sixty seven looking at sugar,
Speaker 1: fat and heart disease. How do these all go together?
Speaker 1: And what are the causes? What are the what types
Speaker 1: of cholesterol are affected? Right? And we can also we
Speaker 1: should explain. Uh. Review of research is sort of an
Speaker 1: anthology kind of thing. They collect different papers that have
Speaker 1: been written on a subject or a group of subjects
Speaker 1: or theme. The studies used in this review of research
Speaker 1: were handpicked by the Sugar Research Foundation and they also,
Speaker 1: through their influence, had an article published in the prestigious
Speaker 1: New England Journal of Medicine. They sponsored this article. It
Speaker 1: was a literature review that singled out fat and cholesterol
Speaker 1: as the call is of c H d uh. And
Speaker 1: they also downplayed evidence that sucross consumption was playing a role.
Speaker 1: They were They were like, ah, you gotta watch out,
Speaker 1: it was fats And they did not disclose that they
Speaker 1: sponsored this. Yeah, that's one of the big things. They
Speaker 1: also set the objective, so they pretty much told the
Speaker 1: researchers what they were going to find, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? And they yeah, And they got drafts that
Speaker 1: they worked over and had editorial influence on, and the
Speaker 1: whole thing happened undercover. Essentially, what they ended up producing
Speaker 1: was somewhere between a hit piece and an advertisement in
Speaker 1: an insiduous way. So Van just to clarify, is this
Speaker 1: something along the lines of a lobby spot on? Well,
Speaker 1: that's uh, that's a great it's a great point. So
Speaker 1: let's say that the three of us are sugar tycoons. Yes,
Speaker 1: perfect just took a different path in life. And now
Speaker 1: here we are at a smoking cigars. We all suck
Speaker 1: on lollipops. Yep, yep, right, we all have very bright
Speaker 1: colored suits. I think I would go for a Willy
Speaker 1: Wonka vibe the original movie adaptation, not the not the
Speaker 1: new one. I'm going penguin. You're going full penguin. Where
Speaker 1: are you going to? No? I Dol's love us, wear
Speaker 1: my cities, swear cities. You're the everyday tech, every day
Speaker 1: sugar tech. Perfect. Well, the three of us say, well,
Speaker 1: we need some we we will have power in numbers
Speaker 1: and we will join uh. We will join our finances
Speaker 1: to fund a trade organization that will represent us. And
Speaker 1: this trade organization can do lobby union on our behalf
Speaker 1: with legislatures, you know, like here are if we want
Speaker 1: favorable tax breaks in a district, if we want uh
Speaker 1: some consideration or uh special prices on loans for building infrastructure.
Speaker 1: It's not necessarily a bad thing, but as potential to
Speaker 1: be very, very damaging. But how does a a group
Speaker 1: such as ours get in such cahoots with what's supposed
Speaker 1: to be an independent review like the the Jama Money money. Yes,
Speaker 1: throw money at it. Because this goes back to some
Speaker 1: of the stuff we discussed with Edward Bernese. What Bernese
Speaker 1: did that was so brilliant was he realized that if
Speaker 1: people thought they were getting unbiased medical advice, then they
Speaker 1: would be more likely to follow it than they would
Speaker 1: the instructions of of a transparent ad Right, it's insidious,
Speaker 1: it's a bait and switch, and it worked really well,
Speaker 1: arguably works today. So the sugar industry kept going. They
Speaker 1: didn't just do this one paper. They didn't do just
Speaker 1: this one area. They sponsored a research program in the
Speaker 1: sixties and into the seventies that can tenually cast doubt
Speaker 1: about the hazards of sucros like oh, sugars, I mean, okay,
Speaker 1: don't eat too much sugar. But guys, really that's the
Speaker 1: dangerous one here, that's the problem here. Yeah, the sugar industry.
Speaker 1: I'm reading from uh that link bend the sugar industry
Speaker 1: and coronary heart disease research paper. Uh. The industry would
Speaker 1: spend six thousand dollars at the time, which is now
Speaker 1: five point three million dollars to teach people quote who
Speaker 1: had never had a course in biochemistry that sugar is
Speaker 1: what keeps every human being alive with energy to face
Speaker 1: our daily problems. It just sounds so happy pena step
Speaker 1: with sugar and and ultimately what they're doing is they're
Speaker 1: they're fighting for market share, right And when you think
Speaker 1: about market share, I'm going to use a video game
Speaker 1: example right now, consoles there would be the Xbox, the PlayStation,
Speaker 1: the what the Nintendo sw Yeah, the Nintendo Switch, and
Speaker 1: a bunch of other ones console or non console games
Speaker 1: like on a PC or something or mac. But each
Speaker 1: of those has a certain percent of the market share. Right. Well,
Speaker 1: in this case, for these sugar industry people, their market
Speaker 1: share is what people put in their bodies as food, right,
Speaker 1: and the entirety of food. And so by reducing or
Speaker 1: making you afraid of fat, they're going to increase overall
Speaker 1: the market share of the food overall, which is crazy
Speaker 1: to think about. And this is not this is not
Speaker 1: to say that consuming excessive amounts of fat is good
Speaker 1: for you, No, not necessarily. Let's also not forget the
Speaker 1: old food pyramid, which the tippy tip tip top contains fats, oils,
Speaker 1: and confectionery or that's what they're calling it now, which
Speaker 1: would be sugar. So if they're in a battle with
Speaker 1: the minds of the public in terms of like, well,
Speaker 1: I can only have a little of of fats or sugar,
Speaker 1: Which one do I perceive as being better or worse
Speaker 1: for me? Which one am I going to choose? So
Speaker 1: that's it's like a it's a psychological battle wherein these
Speaker 1: sugar folks are hoping that you will choose sugar because
Speaker 1: it's perceived to be less harmful, and fat sort of
Speaker 1: gets the gets thrown to the bus. And then as
Speaker 1: we know over time, if fats been determined to be
Speaker 1: there are good fats and there are facts that are
Speaker 1: good to have as part of your diet um. And
Speaker 1: then you know, I think it becomes out on top, yes,
Speaker 1: Will said, and in great point bringing in the food pyramid,
Speaker 1: which could be it's a podcast all its so, And
Speaker 1: I think when we get to that, U, where are
Speaker 1: we now? We're telling you the story of something that
Speaker 1: actually happened, like no ifs ands or butts, no allegations,
Speaker 1: no rumors. People planned in a in a sweet smoky
Speaker 1: backroom to beguile and mislead the US public, and they
Speaker 1: did so successfully. So where does this leave us down.
Speaker 1: We'll tell you after a word from our sponsor. First off,
Speaker 1: you might be wondering, hey, Matt hay Been, he know
Speaker 1: what happens to the the s RF. The s RF, Well,
Speaker 1: it hit the fan, ben, it hit uh, it hit
Speaker 1: the name fan. Because that trade group is still around
Speaker 1: today under a different name. It's called the Sugar Association.
Speaker 1: They have a fancy website. If you're interested, go check
Speaker 1: it out. Um, there's lots of information in there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you checked it out. I did to spend a little
Speaker 1: too much time on there today and I wanted a donut.
Speaker 1: And here's the other thing. It's bigger than sugar. And
Speaker 1: it's bigger than a single historical incidents, right. And I'm
Speaker 1: not casting any aspersion on the current Sugar Association because
Speaker 1: we don't I don't have, you know, evidence to do that.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure that the same people who are working
Speaker 1: there in the sixties, I'm gonna go ahead and say
Speaker 1: that they're not working there now in probably correct, probably correct.
Speaker 1: I feel safe with that one. But why is it
Speaker 1: bigger than sugar? It's bigger than sugar because private food
Speaker 1: manufacturers continue to influence nutrition guidelines today, and it's happening now,
Speaker 1: perhaps more than you think. So be very careful when
Speaker 1: you hear those new alarmist pieces about what's good or
Speaker 1: what's bad for you. We've joked about it before. It
Speaker 1: seems like every week, every month, there's some sort of
Speaker 1: cycle of coffee'll make you live longer and be smarter
Speaker 1: when you're elderly, or coffee will kill you somehow, right.
Speaker 1: I like the ones about tequila, All right, we'll just
Speaker 1: leave that one there. No, Apparently, like you know, you
Speaker 1: can see studies about saying a glass of wine is
Speaker 1: good for your heart, or like now they're saying tequila
Speaker 1: is good for you. I hadn't heard this one. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna have to go buy a bottle. I guess yeah,
Speaker 1: for your health, very health conscious. Uh yeah. And then
Speaker 1: it can apply also to sodas, right, beverage manufacturers, it
Speaker 1: can apply to um pork manufacturers. It's it's kind of
Speaker 1: tough to see to to figure out if food where
Speaker 1: this would not apply. You know, Yeah, I cannot find one,
Speaker 1: and just thinking about all the different kinds of berries.
Speaker 1: They are great for you, but they do have a
Speaker 1: lot of naturally occurring sugar right, which is fine. And
Speaker 1: the thing is that ultimately the best the best process
Speaker 1: to take is if you hear oh uh, like, puit's
Speaker 1: a random vegetable m artichoke. Oh, it turns out that
Speaker 1: artichokes give you these vast superior powers of hearing or whatever.
Speaker 1: Sweet right, Or if you hear something that's that's very bad,
Speaker 1: like is all cancer related to consuming cheese it's Those
Speaker 1: are both pretty unrealistic, cartoonish headlines. But the point is
Speaker 1: your best processes, that is to take that and before
Speaker 1: you share it around with people, before you start going
Speaker 1: to throw out all your cheese its or by all
Speaker 1: the artichokes in your town, figure out who wrote it.
Speaker 1: Do that old fake news thing That turns out that
Speaker 1: thing I said about tequila not not true? Not true?
Speaker 1: Really yeah, snope says mostly faults. Wait wait, so partially true.
Speaker 1: Also artichoke is a flowers. Oh boy, well that just
Speaker 1: makes the headline even more cartoonish. So the answers you
Speaker 1: find might surprise ries you. There might be a situation
Speaker 1: where you see a very strange, sort of anonymous sounding
Speaker 1: block name blase a name where we go, oh, all right,
Speaker 1: well this was according you know, this is according to
Speaker 1: the the Committee for the Committee for Accuracy in Grain
Speaker 1: Related Health. And then you do some searching on them
Speaker 1: and you go, oh, they're owned by uh, you know,
Speaker 1: as some rival to cheese. It's right, they're owned by
Speaker 1: like horrible Redenbacker. But the the point here is that
Speaker 1: this stuff, this stuff can have the appearance of unbiased
Speaker 1: quantitative data, and it's not always true. I have to
Speaker 1: ask you, guys, what do you think about the state
Speaker 1: of I guess the state of mass produced food here
Speaker 1: in the US. That's what I wanted to talk about.
Speaker 1: I feel like we're at this weird point in history
Speaker 1: in this country where we are pushing back towards manufactured foods.
Speaker 1: Not that we're not purchasing them anymore or consuming them.
Speaker 1: We are pushing back with the organic movement and trying
Speaker 1: to move away from this kind of stuff. But it's unfortunately,
Speaker 1: it feels like to me at least, something that can't
Speaker 1: truly come to fruition because we have so many humans
Speaker 1: that we need to feed, so many animals we need
Speaker 1: to feed to feed the humans, and we're going to
Speaker 1: have to continue to process this stuff. And sugar is
Speaker 1: a pretty ideal source of calories I mean, it really is.
Speaker 1: If you just need to get calories and energy to
Speaker 1: move and function, then it seems like it's a no
Speaker 1: brainer that we need sugar and we should keep eating it.
Speaker 1: And talking about this makes me wonder how many times
Speaker 1: we've said the word sugar in this episode And does
Speaker 1: anybody else have a craving now that we've spent this
Speaker 1: long examining this, Uh, sugar, sugar, sugar, I'm done. I
Speaker 1: thought that was good. How it was How did the
Speaker 1: riff go that we were doing earlier? Baby boom boom boom. Sure, fantastic, guys. Uh.
Speaker 1: The the point here of courses is not to vilify sugar,
Speaker 1: and yes, what these people did in the sixties and
Speaker 1: seventies for this particular instance, we're in the wrong. Uh.
Speaker 1: The point is just to just to do our best
Speaker 1: to be aware of this stuff, and it can be challenging.
Speaker 1: You know, we live in a place where a lot
Speaker 1: of very large companies have bought up a bunch of things.
Speaker 1: You know, you might be surprised how many seemingly different
Speaker 1: products in your local grocery store are ultimately owned by
Speaker 1: one corporation, Right, even products that seem to compete. Uh,
Speaker 1: this amount of influence and power can be leveraged in
Speaker 1: unexpected and surprising ways. I think I'm going to uh,
Speaker 1: I might, I don't know, I might drink a soda.
Speaker 1: Don't do it, You're right. What what you What you
Speaker 1: can do right now is go to sugar dot org
Speaker 1: and look at the member companies and you can find
Speaker 1: yourself a whole list here of sugar tycoons. We've got
Speaker 1: Domino Sugar, which is now I guess, the American Sugar
Speaker 1: Refining Incorporated. There's Amalgamated Sugar Company. Is Imperial Sugar on
Speaker 1: the Imperial Sugar is most definitely on here. Remember that
Speaker 1: insane fire at the Imperial Sugar Refinery and Savannah that
Speaker 1: UM sent a bunch of people to burn unit like
Speaker 1: it was a whole disaster sugar dust, and it created
Speaker 1: all kinds of new interest in regulations about sugar manufacturing
Speaker 1: because apparently sugar dust is incredibly flammable and it can
Speaker 1: collect on eaves and beams in the building and there
Speaker 1: it's combustible. So one little poof it can you know,
Speaker 1: be all over UM. So this is two eight. I
Speaker 1: was working for Georgia Public Radio at the time, and
Speaker 1: the most advanced burned unit in the area was in Augusta, UM,
Speaker 1: where I was based, and so we covered that story
Speaker 1: pretty extensively. It was a big, huge, huge deal, man.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sorry, I'm just looking at it online.
Speaker 1: UM check it out. It's called the two thousand eight
Speaker 1: Georgia Sugar Refinery explosion. And this concludes our episode, but
Speaker 1: of course not our show. We hope that you enjoyed
Speaker 1: what we explored today. We also hope that if you
Speaker 1: want to learn more about sugar, you avail yourself of
Speaker 1: our parent website, how Stuff Works, which has a pretty
Speaker 1: pretty solid article on how sugar works. There's also stuff
Speaker 1: in there about how fruit toast corn syrup works. But
Speaker 1: there's a whole branching set of articles you can get to.
Speaker 1: You are invited, officially, ladies and gentlemen, to fall down
Speaker 1: a sugar rabbit hole worth us, as well as to
Speaker 1: the other podcast our sister and brother podcasts that exist
Speaker 1: here at how Stuff Works. And I also like to
Speaker 1: take this opportunity to plug a new podcast that friend
Speaker 1: of the show, Lauren Vogelbaum, has been on talking about
Speaker 1: diamonds um is on now called food Stuff that just
Speaker 1: launched today. That the day that we're recording this Wednesday,
Speaker 1: March the first. Uh. Their first episode is about champagne
Speaker 1: and sparkling wine and uh, it's pretty cool stuff. Yes,
Speaker 1: check it out. They'll also have some videos coming out.
Speaker 1: And you know what, that Diamond episode holds up, It
Speaker 1: really does. It holds up in a frightening and terrifying
Speaker 1: And I just have to quickly mention that Annie is
Speaker 1: also on this producer. Annie who worked on stuff Mom
Speaker 1: Never told you for its entirety, She's now on this
Speaker 1: show behind the mic. Yeah, like me, making the jump
Speaker 1: from producer to performer. Yes, but she's a paid actor already,
Speaker 1: so she's gonna be awesome. And we think that if
Speaker 1: you like our show, you will love this one. So
Speaker 1: check us out. Check it out food stuff. You can
Speaker 1: find it wherever you find our podcast, and let us
Speaker 1: know what you think. They're also pretty cool people. If
Speaker 1: you have an idea for an episode they should cover
Speaker 1: in the future right in let him know. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of weird food stuff out there, there is. Uh.
Speaker 1: And speaking of listener mail, I think it's time for
Speaker 1: shut Atconnas. Our first shout out comes from Lorenzo from Sweden.
Speaker 1: He says, Hey, I'm listening to your podcast while I work.
Speaker 1: So here's the story that they don't want you to know,
Speaker 1: and it's alchemy related. The anatomical Machines of San serv
Speaker 1: San Servo Chapel. Never heard of this. These things exist
Speaker 1: and are exhibited in Naples, Italy. If you visit this
Speaker 1: chapel in the underground chamber they're located. Uh. Probably the
Speaker 1: most famous anatomical machines. Either. These are not early robots
Speaker 1: or something similar. They are skeletons of a man and
Speaker 1: and woman in an upright position. The artery and vein
Speaker 1: systems are almost in perfect condition. I just want to
Speaker 1: really quick. This sounds like what's the human exhibit? The
Speaker 1: human bodies? Bodies bodies. Yeah, that's what I'm already seeing
Speaker 1: in my head. Um. These machines were made by the
Speaker 1: doctor Giuseppe Salermo of Palermo under the direction of this
Speaker 1: other guy. With the discovery of deeds and notes, it's
Speaker 1: possible that these things were created in seventeen sixty three
Speaker 1: or sixty four. That is a long time ago. What
Speaker 1: makes it even more interesting interesting is that until now
Speaker 1: scientists have no idea which procedures or materials were used
Speaker 1: to make these things um to obtain such an exceptional
Speaker 1: preservation of the circulatory system, and he's left a place
Speaker 1: where we can go and learn more about it. That's yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go check that out. I'm gonna go check
Speaker 1: that out. And I already feel the rabbit hole opening.
Speaker 1: Their mystery is a foot and thank you for writing
Speaker 1: and learns our next out out, this one is a
Speaker 1: This one's a little bit long, but I'm so I'm
Speaker 1: going to read selected parts of it if that's cool.
Speaker 1: Our second shout out today is a little bit longer.
Speaker 1: I'm going to read just some excerpts of it from
Speaker 1: night Bringer two thousand. Night Bringer two thousand says, I
Speaker 1: just finished listening to your did the US abandoned soldiers
Speaker 1: in Vietnam War episode and reminded me of a story
Speaker 1: I heard from a friend of the family that was
Speaker 1: in Vietnam. Prompted me to write in was the part
Speaker 1: where you discussed the possibility that perhaps some soldiers were
Speaker 1: left behind because release or return home could implicate the
Speaker 1: US being involved in war crimes. To me, this seems
Speaker 1: plausible for some individuals who didn't return home. Based on
Speaker 1: the story I'm about to share, and he says, he
Speaker 1: branded it's only here safe for him. But he believes
Speaker 1: that when this person was telling the truth. And here's
Speaker 1: the story. At one point during his service in Vietnam,
Speaker 1: as they were pushing inland, they were in a valley.
Speaker 1: At the top of the inland side of the valley
Speaker 1: was a village that they were tasked with securing. Because
Speaker 1: the dense jungle terrain and the defending Vietnamese had an
Speaker 1: elevation advantage their unit, the US unit was having a
Speaker 1: lot of difficulty even progressing toward the village, let alone
Speaker 1: securing it. They tried for several days but were unable
Speaker 1: to gain any ground, and finally the officer in charge
Speaker 1: conceded that they weren't going to secure the village without
Speaker 1: additional help. He made a call to his superiors informing
Speaker 1: him of the situation. Was told assistance would be sent
Speaker 1: and that they would need to hold the ground for
Speaker 1: a couple more days. After a few days, they get
Speaker 1: word that helicopters are coming and they need to secure
Speaker 1: landing zone. When the helicopters arrived, only a small squad
Speaker 1: of six to eight soldiers get out. His friend doesn't
Speaker 1: know if these are Navy Seals, Delta Force, Force Recon
Speaker 1: or some other special forces unit. He supposed they might
Speaker 1: have even been mercenaries. But they were definitely not regular infantry.
Speaker 1: They weren't wearing fatigues, they didn't have name tags, they
Speaker 1: did not identify nor introduced themselves. They only talked briefly
Speaker 1: to the highest ranking officer in the area. So they're
Speaker 1: talking about you know, the soldiers were understandably upset because
Speaker 1: they thought, how are these six to eight guys going
Speaker 1: to help us? And then one of the Special Forces
Speaker 1: guys overhears the overhears the folks arguing about it, and
Speaker 1: he walks over and interjects with a comment along the
Speaker 1: lines of you guys have been here what two weeks,
Speaker 1: and you couldn't take this hill, So they have to
Speaker 1: fly our asses out there to cover you and do
Speaker 1: your job. We're going to take this hill and one night,
Speaker 1: and then you guys are going to feel real extra stupid,
Speaker 1: and he walks away. Fast forward. Once it starts getting dark,
Speaker 1: these Special Forces guys are packing it in to go,
Speaker 1: he says. Once it's starts they all disappear into the
Speaker 1: jungle and what becomes an otherwise uneventful night. The next
Speaker 1: morning is daylight's dawning. They come walking down the hill
Speaker 1: into camp. They tell the first group of infantrymen, the
Speaker 1: village is yours. Now. These guys were pretty confused because
Speaker 1: they hadn't heard a single shot the night before. The
Speaker 1: Special Ops guys go report to the commanding officer. Uh.
Speaker 1: The commanding officer tells him to pack up and proceed
Speaker 1: to the village. They're expecting and distance, so they're easing
Speaker 1: the way up to the hill carefully. No resistance to
Speaker 1: the village. Once they got there was silent. It appeared empty,
Speaker 1: he said. A lot of guys were confused, wondering if
Speaker 1: the villagers had just happened to choose to abandon the
Speaker 1: village that previous evening. As they started sweeping the village,
Speaker 1: they were checking huts, and they found the village was
Speaker 1: not empty or abandoned at all, he said. As they
Speaker 1: went from hut to hut, they found the villagers, the
Speaker 1: entire village, men, women, and children all dead. It appeared
Speaker 1: that most, if not all, died from knife wounds, with
Speaker 1: a lot of them having slashed throats, and many of
Speaker 1: them still in their beds. He doesn't know exactly what
Speaker 1: happened that night, but the thought and talk amongst the
Speaker 1: regular infantrymen is that the special forces guys must have
Speaker 1: silently killed the guards and then went from hut to
Speaker 1: hut and killed the villagers while they were sleeping. He
Speaker 1: said there were many of dozens of people in the village,
Speaker 1: all of them dead after a single night and not
Speaker 1: a shot heard. He said this is the most disturbing
Speaker 1: thing he's ever seen and that he'll never forget it.
Speaker 1: So wow. So this is talking about a war rhyme,
Speaker 1: and this is why, according to night Bringer two thousand,
Speaker 1: he believes it's completely plausible that some people would have
Speaker 1: been left behind if they were compromised in the execution
Speaker 1: of an operation like this. This is scary, scary stuff.
Speaker 1: Thank you for writing to us, Nightbringer, and folks say,
Speaker 1: I know that one was a little bit longer than normal,
Speaker 1: but try to edit it a little for time, and
Speaker 1: we think it's an important story. So pretty grizzly, I'll
Speaker 1: say that, And on a to end, on a slightly
Speaker 1: less gruesome note, we have a shout out from Stephen
Speaker 1: or Stefan from Melbourne, Australia. He says, hi guys, a
Speaker 1: massive fan of the show, absolutely love it. Request a
Speaker 1: shout out to my girlfriend Chris Chrystalla. Chrystalla, what do
Speaker 1: you think, Chrystalla. We hope we got it right. Stephen
Speaker 1: or Stefan shout out, Gosh, we're really butchering this one.
Speaker 1: Um I would love to hear more episodes on the
Speaker 1: following topics UFOs and aliens check w W two Nazi conspiracies,
Speaker 1: would love to do that, such as the Nazi bell ship.
Speaker 1: Are you aware of that one? Then? Oh? Yes, this
Speaker 1: is the idea of this. This is the idea that
Speaker 1: the Nazi Party discovered uh an energy that essentially changed
Speaker 1: the rules of gravity, and that it was a bell
Speaker 1: shaped object that was either used to produce this or
Speaker 1: was itself the vehicle Nazi Bell. Interesting. And then finally
Speaker 1: one that we've been talking about a lot lately, ghosts
Speaker 1: and paranormal activity. Um I would say, chances are good
Speaker 1: to get something on every single one of those at
Speaker 1: some point this year. Yeah, we haven't done a full
Speaker 1: Nazi Bell when we did Magic, No, we didn't. We
Speaker 1: haven't done audio podcasts on any of this stuff. We
Speaker 1: haven't have we here we're gonna go back through. We're
Speaker 1: gonna do all this stuff. You're gonna love it. Stefan
Speaker 1: and Chrystala shout out. Crystal Stephen s Fo thank you
Speaker 1: so much for writing in with those excellent topic recommendations.
Speaker 1: And I can't believe that we forgot to do those.
Speaker 1: It's great. Uh and this concludes. Gosh, how cool is
Speaker 1: it that there are people in Melbourne listening to us?
Speaker 1: It's pretty cool. Thank you. We appreciate your time. I'd
Speaker 1: love to go visit there sometime. Absolutely, So if you
Speaker 1: want to write to us, you have anything to share,
Speaker 1: a comment, an opinion about something, or a story you'd
Speaker 1: like to weave that maybe we'll say on the show,
Speaker 1: or something your fellow listeners need to know. Then you
Speaker 1: can find us on Facebook. You can find us on Twitter,
Speaker 1: you can find us on Instagram where Conspiracy Stuff at
Speaker 1: the first two, Conspiracy Stuff Show at the third one,
Speaker 1: and you can check out every single audio episode that Noel,
Speaker 1: Matt and I have ever done on our website Deep
Speaker 1: Breath Stuff. They Don't want you to Know dot Com.
Speaker 1: And that's the end of this classic episode. If you
Speaker 1: have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you can
Speaker 1: get into contact with us in a number of different ways.
Speaker 1: One of the best is to give us a call.
Speaker 1: Our number is one eight three three st d w
Speaker 1: y t K. If you don't want to do that,
Speaker 1: you can send us a good old fashioned email. We
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