Speaker 1: As a young kid. My father actually took me to
Speaker 1: search for the person that co operate against him so
Speaker 1: he could kill him. And I knocked on the door
Speaker 1: and he gave me a name to ask for this door,
Speaker 1: and he said, you're gonna go ask for this person,
Speaker 1: and when he comes out, if he's home, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: kill him. You know, I'm ten years old. He wasn't home.
Speaker 1: Things always work out for us, I guess. And over
Speaker 1: the years, like I could see him carry this hate.
Speaker 1: He said it because of him, my family suffer. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna make him t I'm gonna make his family summer.
Speaker 1: You could blame people for how you ended up a
Speaker 1: certain way, Mary, but you to only blame your separate
Speaker 1: staying that way. And I'm like, okay, I could blame
Speaker 1: my family, my upbringing on certain decisions. I mean, but
Speaker 1: I don't have to stay that way. It was kind
Speaker 1: of preset because it was happening before you can make
Speaker 1: a decision, like if it's already around you growing up.
Speaker 1: The only people that I've seen have nice things was
Speaker 1: from my mom's life exactly. It was all hustling. It
Speaker 1: prevated a decision for me to go down that road.
Speaker 1: I'm Curtis fitz Saint Jackson, and I'm Charlie Webster, and
Speaker 1: then this is surviving Old Chappo. It's once you brought
Speaker 1: down the drug wall. For me, making a decision about
Speaker 1: who I wanted to be was the hardest thing I
Speaker 1: ever did. Had a microphone on one hare and then
Speaker 1: the gun another. Is there such thing as a life
Speaker 1: outside of the cartel for Peter and Jay once they're
Speaker 1: in it? Well? J thought so. The challenge was to
Speaker 1: convince his twin brother Pete that there was a different
Speaker 1: path they could take. I say, Peter and me to
Speaker 1: talk to him us something. I said, what if we incoperate?
Speaker 1: And I couldn't even finish saying the last one with Peter,
Speaker 1: your stupid mother bucker just started screaming, yelling. Ten days later,
Speaker 1: my phone rang Wenday like twin more and it was Hello,
Speaker 1: and He's just like, how would we do it? So
Speaker 1: we can't talk about this in the phone. I said,
Speaker 1: you need to come by. I wind Jake throw it
Speaker 1: out story like that something that it seems like it's
Speaker 1: feel like put out and he thought into it, kind
Speaker 1: of bringing storming or something. I think that I really
Speaker 1: took it in and just I thought about it. Of
Speaker 1: course I don't want to go to prison. Who does?
Speaker 1: And it was tremendously dangerous situation. I'm just about keeping
Speaker 1: my family safe, and I think it was more fearful.
Speaker 1: And then you know, sitting at home and thinking about
Speaker 1: it and thinking about real ages, winding a way out,
Speaker 1: man just one the way out, winding a way to
Speaker 1: just be there for my family, killing one different way
Speaker 1: of life. My baby that was coming, like just wanted
Speaker 1: something different, how wanted to put a life from them.
Speaker 1: It made me think about the future, like what decision
Speaker 1: am I doing to give my family what they deserve?
Speaker 1: And one day it was too late, like it might
Speaker 1: just too far gone to even try to turn back.
Speaker 1: At the time, Cha I mentioned that I was really
Speaker 1: upset because it was not in my mindset. He had
Speaker 1: this way to make everything sound really good and like
Speaker 1: fictitious almost, and I felt like he wasn't being he
Speaker 1: wasn't understanding what he was saying all the way. So
Speaker 1: did you dis because it with Viviana before you went
Speaker 1: to speak to Jay. Yes, of question, Then what did
Speaker 1: you say to I mean, I remember Tony hair about
Speaker 1: what my brother had said and she listened, and you
Speaker 1: never really know she's thinking, you know, and she listened,
Speaker 1: and she was like shot at my bringing it up, like, well,
Speaker 1: what if it is something that you could do. I
Speaker 1: explained to that I would call it prison though, and
Speaker 1: I remember putting her in close to me. I'm like,
Speaker 1: let's just seeing the worst case scenario, like they give
Speaker 1: me ten years to do eight years if I cooperate
Speaker 1: against these people. She was like years, And somehow it
Speaker 1: didn't sound bad to me. She was just like looking
Speaker 1: at me, like, no, no, that's not what I want,
Speaker 1: Like wearing a baby, anybody said that. You know, I
Speaker 1: thought this was the best decision for us. It's trusted that,
Speaker 1: even though she didn't want to hear that, you know.
Speaker 1: So when I made those decisions, I always thought, I'm
Speaker 1: really taking away any kind of the selfishness because I
Speaker 1: knew that she trusted me. And I would tell they, like,
Speaker 1: imagine by the time when we could put this behind
Speaker 1: us and just living on and we could be close
Speaker 1: our family, just put all this light behind those, all
Speaker 1: of these mistakes I made it. And she would tell
Speaker 1: me she's just telling nothing to happen to me, and
Speaker 1: she didn't want us to be apart. I remember it
Speaker 1: was like eating right. We're in Jay's house when we
Speaker 1: go upstairs and we go to the bad to him
Speaker 1: and he's like, you know, hold on, Peter, who shows
Speaker 1: up him? And get your show up? Okay, kids are sleeping,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, guys, come up, you know. So I
Speaker 1: was actually come on, come up. They followed me, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm walking to our bedroom. When they come ahead, I
Speaker 1: locked the door and then I'm like come in, like like,
Speaker 1: you're going to leave your phones here. So we start
Speaker 1: taking our phones off, me and Pe and we put
Speaker 1: them in the petalm bed just probably to yeah, probably
Speaker 1: we just threw on the bed and you know, we're
Speaker 1: just like looking at It's like okay. And then I said,
Speaker 1: come in the Washington come in. So in the bathroom,
Speaker 1: we have a closet. Before I close the closet door,
Speaker 1: then we walked across the closet and we can go.
Speaker 1: I go close the other door, and and at that time,
Speaker 1: we have a really huge shower. It was like a
Speaker 1: twelve people showers and we have all these to a
Speaker 1: person shower yet and we have all these jets. It's
Speaker 1: like the newest thing, and it just came out from
Speaker 1: more and then and it's like, I don't know, sixteen
Speaker 1: shower heads. It's electrical, and in order for me to
Speaker 1: get the water pressure, I had to put like these
Speaker 1: big old compressors. You could hear the noise when they
Speaker 1: were going throughout the house, but when the shower heads
Speaker 1: were going, you couldn't hear anything, you know, because the
Speaker 1: shower heads were so like so much water coming out. Yes,
Speaker 1: so you could hear the like, And the compression was
Speaker 1: somewhere downstairs and the facilities room. Man, I turned on
Speaker 1: the showers and Peter, You're like looking at it, like
Speaker 1: what the fund is all? We have a big tub,
Speaker 1: we have somewhere to sit down, and Okay, are you
Speaker 1: sure you want to do this? Like no, but how
Speaker 1: would we do if we did it? I didn't know
Speaker 1: what the funk I would say, to be honest, I
Speaker 1: was just saying, like everything I had thought about that point,
Speaker 1: I say, listen, if we know, we could give them
Speaker 1: anyone they want, and if you know, Samuel book five
Speaker 1: years for nineteen murder to recorporat whooping a good situation.
Speaker 1: So I'm just thinking at worst case that we could
Speaker 1: get ten years. And my brothers just like go to
Speaker 1: jail for ten years. And I'm like, yeah, that's that
Speaker 1: worst case, I said, But I wouldn't know. We have
Speaker 1: to first try and see and see how this works.
Speaker 1: It's weird because that conversation started to talk about family,
Speaker 1: like we're talking about life. I said that if we
Speaker 1: have to give our kids a better chance, it's the
Speaker 1: only way that we could get out this life. I said,
Speaker 1: and beware our families where our wives and I don't
Speaker 1: think none of us want the life that's coming for us.
Speaker 1: And I think that this will be our chance for
Speaker 1: us to change our life and do something different. But
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to sacrifice. Listen, Okay, so how would
Speaker 1: we do it? He like, I don't know. It's that
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to really think of a plan because
Speaker 1: us the minute we opened our mouths, we're in trouble.
Speaker 1: That was hard too, you know, because you have to
Speaker 1: trust someone else. And and I didn't sit well. We
Speaker 1: even and about probably like asking a bunch of questions.
Speaker 1: I think said, well, how would we do that? As said,
Speaker 1: but we need to talk to her a journey. I
Speaker 1: think we have to trust him. We're gonna have to
Speaker 1: talk to him and find it, like maybe we have
Speaker 1: him come down to see us and stuff, we could
Speaker 1: talk to my in person. He's like, it's gonna take
Speaker 1: a while to come. I would love to find out,
Speaker 1: like what we could do now, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Just so we're like, how would we talkt to him?
Speaker 1: Like where we had to send him phone? Like we're
Speaker 1: not gonna just talk to him on any phone and
Speaker 1: we're not gonna trust anyone. How are we gonna do that?
Speaker 1: And I was like, me and my brother both flock about,
Speaker 1: and she's like what. I'm like, maybe you have to
Speaker 1: go talk to him, chick. Why me? I'm like, because
Speaker 1: there's someone else? Why? I mean, like I can't go
Speaker 1: you you were reading for this foul, you know, Like
Speaker 1: we're like joking. And I said, we'll talk to beforehand.
Speaker 1: We'll sell them a phone and we'll tell them we
Speaker 1: have something to tell you. But if you're your accepted,
Speaker 1: you're in it with us. And then she said, all right,
Speaker 1: alcohol this week, Well hold on, I said, hold on,
Speaker 1: hold on that we can't tell anyone. I can't tell
Speaker 1: anyone because they depend on you too much. And everyone
Speaker 1: loves their life and they're gonna convince you guys not
Speaker 1: to do it. You guys just have to not say
Speaker 1: anything to anyone and keep it between us only. And
Speaker 1: we're like, okay, and whenever we need to talk, this
Speaker 1: is what we're gonna come talk. And we're like, all right.
Speaker 1: It wasn't a simple conversation. It wasn't We were there
Speaker 1: like talking about family, talking about past. We're getting caught
Speaker 1: up in those moments. It was crazy what I had
Speaker 1: just proposed, like to cooperate against the biggest strugglers in
Speaker 1: the world. I do remember even saying, like my chapel
Speaker 1: and they have a five minute I reworked for each
Speaker 1: of them. That's fifteen million dollars. I said, yeah, I
Speaker 1: give them all the money they want. Let me get
Speaker 1: those fis to me. That's all I need. How would
Speaker 1: you reckon the conversation that phone. We were in that
Speaker 1: l from for like at least an hour and a half,
Speaker 1: two hours, because we were gett caught up talking about
Speaker 1: like just our kids and our family in our future,
Speaker 1: like what would be Like I told them about the visits,
Speaker 1: you know, and the hours like and they kind of
Speaker 1: thought about it. How are you talking about visits and hours?
Speaker 1: I guess it's just was my my life, right man.
Speaker 1: I guess it's sad to say that, but my father
Speaker 1: been in prison, my brother's being prisoned, and the life
Speaker 1: I know how it works. I had no clue the
Speaker 1: sacrifice that we're gonna have to make, you know, how
Speaker 1: long we're gonna have to wait, and the danger we're
Speaker 1: gonna put ourselves in. I was so focused on doing
Speaker 1: something good. I remember even saying that, like, like, this
Speaker 1: is gonna be bigger than being lauded. What we could
Speaker 1: do to the drug trade. M we just gos difference incenarios.
Speaker 1: Mostly it was like Jay and I speaking about being safe.
Speaker 1: I want to tell you that I really appreciate that
Speaker 1: we had an attorney that we felt we could trust
Speaker 1: with our lives, because imagine you had the wrong attorney.
Speaker 1: My brother and I felt like throwing out these names.
Speaker 1: It was like a no brainer. And I felt like
Speaker 1: when we said I could serve him up, I mean
Speaker 1: I could serve him up to you, like I don't
Speaker 1: think they understood that. We felt like that was three aces.
Speaker 1: And the fourth phase was that we would come in
Speaker 1: voluntary about had to go speak to the attorney. I
Speaker 1: had no attorneys I was ten years old. I know
Speaker 1: what he does, representing my brothers, my father. I respect
Speaker 1: to him, right, I mean, you could only imagine I'm
Speaker 1: in Mexico and here we are, boy, little persons, right
Speaker 1: thinking of this big old plan. We have no idea
Speaker 1: what's coming, how it's gonna work. We went and make
Speaker 1: sure we had a new phone number. Bow he actually
Speaker 1: took the phone like we would have American phones with
Speaker 1: us as out and I think we had a new phone,
Speaker 1: and we added a number. We've got him, just a phone,
Speaker 1: and we gave it the charge room and give me
Speaker 1: the phone and said, first you're gonna talk to him,
Speaker 1: and then you're gonna explain to him that if he
Speaker 1: doesn't want to be a part of something that's really dangerous,
Speaker 1: he just could tell us and that's it. He don't
Speaker 1: have to answer this phone. But if he decides to that,
Speaker 1: he's in it. Feel longer. He's in it. He's responsible,
Speaker 1: just like we are. You know this is gonna sound bad,
Speaker 1: but it was our life right in the way. It
Speaker 1: was like we're almost like threatening him like a scared
Speaker 1: test because it was that serious. Right about you hear
Speaker 1: him going. We made sure we called him and said, hey,
Speaker 1: Bob was going You're gonna talk to you. It's important.
Speaker 1: So he was curious. He wanted to know. I still
Speaker 1: remember about saying Okay, I'm getting here. It was like
Speaker 1: the longest fifteen minutes where we had the new phone,
Speaker 1: just sitting there, Me and Pete in the bathroom. Wait. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you're back in the bathroom, back in the bathroom, waiting,
Speaker 1: just waiting for her phone. Tween Ja Peter and the
Speaker 1: wanting me to go to Chicago was like kind of expected.
Speaker 1: I'm like, for sure, I'm gonna do whatever I need
Speaker 1: to do. I know, it was a little nerve wracking
Speaker 1: because I didn't know how he was going to take it.
Speaker 1: The attorney. When I flew into Chicago, I went to
Speaker 1: his office to go see him, and I had a
Speaker 1: phone with me. And the reason I had a phone
Speaker 1: with me is because it was a clean phone so
Speaker 1: J and Peter can have direct access to him. I
Speaker 1: sat down to his office and I'm like, listen, this
Speaker 1: is really important. You can't say anything to anyone. The
Speaker 1: suspense was killing him, like what's going on? Like what's happening?
Speaker 1: I said, J and Peter they're thinking about cooperating with
Speaker 1: the US government and we're going to need your help.
Speaker 1: And right away he gets up hold on and he's
Speaker 1: like putting his finger over his mouth and he's kind
Speaker 1: of telling me to be quiet. He's like, I have
Speaker 1: in my ear. I have to check you to make
Speaker 1: sure you don't have a wire. And I was like,
Speaker 1: this is awkward, but okay, I'm going to show him
Speaker 1: because I knew it was a concern of him. But
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, does he want to just like look
Speaker 1: at me or does he really want to make sure
Speaker 1: I don't have a wire? Yeah, I showed him because
Speaker 1: it was we were kind of putting him in a
Speaker 1: bad situation because I know that he's a trial attorney
Speaker 1: and cooperating with the U. S government. It was not
Speaker 1: what he was known for. We thought that he would
Speaker 1: be totally against it. But I think that because he
Speaker 1: saw how desperate, the desperate look in my eyes and
Speaker 1: what I was telling him that they wanted to do,
Speaker 1: as far as who they were willing to give up,
Speaker 1: he knew it was that serious. Right away. UM like,
Speaker 1: let me call them. This is a clean phone. They
Speaker 1: want to talk to you directly and they could kind
Speaker 1: of explain everything to you. So that's what I did.
Speaker 1: I just passed the phone to him and he was
Speaker 1: just pacing back and forth talking to Peter and J
Speaker 1: We're so nervous. So did she tell you? He's like,
Speaker 1: are you guys after fucking mine? You know? At first
Speaker 1: it was like one of those and he's like, are
Speaker 1: you serious? He sounded scared, nervous, like are you for real?
Speaker 1: And well, I think it's time. We want to change
Speaker 1: your life. We want to do something different. What do
Speaker 1: you think. He's like, I don't know, man, I'd have
Speaker 1: to think about it. Let me think if this is
Speaker 1: the right thing. And I said, listen, we work with
Speaker 1: the three bigger strugglers in the world. We could cooperate
Speaker 1: against them. We have to be able to get a
Speaker 1: good deal. And he's like, ask questions and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: I think that he even joked around about a few
Speaker 1: things and he said I'd have to find out two
Speaker 1: put you guys just sure you guys want to do this?
Speaker 1: Are you guys gonna be safe for like I don't
Speaker 1: even bring that word up, of course not. And he's like,
Speaker 1: can I find out. We'll not tell anyone. I'm telling
Speaker 1: you right now, your life will be in danger as well.
Speaker 1: Woman's have to make that reminder on him. Yeah, at first,
Speaker 1: of like, don't if you tell someone this, they're gonna
Speaker 1: like want information. There's too many close ties right as
Speaker 1: simplus our families here, the kids are here, Like, you
Speaker 1: have to understand when you tell them when you're putting
Speaker 1: this in danger, I said, whoever you talk to has
Speaker 1: to be like top secret. Just like that, I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll get back to h afterwards. I was like, listen,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm really sorry that we're putting you in
Speaker 1: this position to begin with, but our family really needs
Speaker 1: your help. They've come up with this plan and they
Speaker 1: really need you to facilitate that for them. They really
Speaker 1: want to come back to the US, and I think
Speaker 1: that they're willing to do whatever is needed possible so
Speaker 1: they can actually change your life and turn themselves in.
Speaker 1: They want to just do the right thing, and we
Speaker 1: really need you for that. And he was like I
Speaker 1: get that. He's like, can I respect that? And I'm
Speaker 1: definitely gonna make my calls right now. And I was like,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. And I gave him a big
Speaker 1: hug and left the office and got back on the
Speaker 1: plane and the way back, I was focusing on, Oh
Speaker 1: my god, what are we doing, What is going to happen,
Speaker 1: What is going to come out of this? What is
Speaker 1: the government going to say? What are they going to
Speaker 1: put themselves in the middle of We're telling attorney that
Speaker 1: represents car tell member, did you in corporate against Yeah?
Speaker 1: And you have to hope that he's not gonna see
Speaker 1: something to round person that could cause our whole family
Speaker 1: being wiped out. And just having that in the back
Speaker 1: of your mind while you're still in Mexico, still where
Speaker 1: data business is still going. You know. I was able
Speaker 1: to speak with it, turning myself like are you sure
Speaker 1: you want to do this? And again I just remember
Speaker 1: telling him, look, man, I got three names. I told him,
Speaker 1: I have chopped for my honor was done, and he's like, who.
Speaker 1: What's weird is that I thought I was gonna get
Speaker 1: a response, like a fast and it wasn't like that.
Speaker 1: It was slow and weird and scary to think that
Speaker 1: there wasn't like a quick response quick followed. I remember
Speaker 1: when the Turnam first told me that he actually was
Speaker 1: able to reach out to an agent, and this was
Speaker 1: the first time I talked to him, and he says,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put you on the phone. Are you comfortable
Speaker 1: with that? And I'm like, yeah, he's gonna be in
Speaker 1: my office at six o'clock. I'm gonna call you that moment.
Speaker 1: It was like a humongous turning perfect me. I didn't
Speaker 1: want to do it. I did not want to do it.
Speaker 1: I felt different. Just waiting for the car, he was
Speaker 1: still like in my mind, like maybe not, Maybe this
Speaker 1: is not what I should do. Maybe I don't want
Speaker 1: to do that. His name was Sam Janelli, and that's
Speaker 1: gonna be the first agent we ever tactor. He was
Speaker 1: explaining to us exactly what happened when he met my attorney.
Speaker 1: The Twins attorney already had a trusted relationship with the
Speaker 1: D A agent named Sam Janelli. For some someone from
Speaker 1: Chicago having information on the biggest drug boards in the
Speaker 1: world sounded made up and he was suspicious, so he
Speaker 1: had to make a call to find out if the
Speaker 1: attorney was telling the truth. He's I have an agent,
Speaker 1: the d agents down there and Wallahara, that's my friend.
Speaker 1: I worked closely with him. Sam. He's like, Hey, do
Speaker 1: you know anyone that could have ties to Chicago that
Speaker 1: would have any information and these people and the cartel
Speaker 1: and cappelem to the d agent down there, I thought
Speaker 1: about it for a second. He was like, yeah to
Speaker 1: Florest Win he said. I was like that, Florest and
Speaker 1: I know, what do you know that? I know album?
Speaker 1: But now they're they're nobody, he said, nobody's no, they're
Speaker 1: moving a lot of weight. Everyone's talking about them here.
Speaker 1: He said, are you for real? He was like, holy ship,
Speaker 1: holy ship, this is for real. Were you not scared
Speaker 1: that as soon as an agent in America spooks for
Speaker 1: an agent in Mexico, given the fact that half of
Speaker 1: the agents and half of the federalities are controlled by
Speaker 1: the cartel, when you're not scared about that, Yes, I
Speaker 1: was very scared. That was the rist of we were burned,
Speaker 1: and that's what we didn't want, and that's what exactly
Speaker 1: what was happening. I guess the agent needed to make
Speaker 1: sure that it was true, and I guess this is
Speaker 1: information that might and he couldn't really give him. So
Speaker 1: we set up a car. We went back to our
Speaker 1: bathroom where we felt safe. It's just me and Peter,
Speaker 1: when we had the phone on speaker, and he talked
Speaker 1: to us on that phone on the phone that my
Speaker 1: journey had and he just said hello, like this Sam Genelli,
Speaker 1: I'm a agent with the Joy Enforcement Agency. We kept
Speaker 1: ourselves like I'm sure you heard of us, and he's like, well, listen,
Speaker 1: like how much information could you give us? Like I
Speaker 1: could give you all the differms you want. You know,
Speaker 1: I meet with chappol my Arthur whenever I want it.
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, I'm gonna go meet with
Speaker 1: him next week. He said, well, well, how does that work?
Speaker 1: I said, well, first we need to talk about like
Speaker 1: how this is gonna work. I mean, like, and you
Speaker 1: could talk to you know, you talk to him, you
Speaker 1: do business with him. But I guess He said, my
Speaker 1: number one goal is that you guys remained safe. And
Speaker 1: we said, well the longest, no one knows, right, if
Speaker 1: we could just keep it quiet, you know for sure,
Speaker 1: that's the number one goal. And I'm gonna talk to him.
Speaker 1: Use your Turns office. I gotta talk to people higher
Speaker 1: ups and see how we could do this. You guys
Speaker 1: are doing the right thing. You're coming on to the
Speaker 1: good side. Right before we hung up, he said, welcome
Speaker 1: to Timmy, and say welcome to Timms. Fact, Timmy sat
Speaker 1: there how did that mean you feel bad? Mine? M M.
Speaker 1: Not that the USA part, but the part where he's
Speaker 1: a team guy. I realized when we took that phone call,
Speaker 1: when we talked to our turney the first time that
Speaker 1: we became it's not just that we're turning our back
Speaker 1: and and everything we ever know. It didn't make us
Speaker 1: feel good. I remember talking to the agent and I remember,
Speaker 1: you can tell me fee what I like to tell
Speaker 1: people about coming over to team USA. I was like
Speaker 1: team Musa, and it kind of made me think, like
Speaker 1: what team I are? And I felt like that was
Speaker 1: the biggest moment where I felt like a trader. Like
Speaker 1: right there, just talking to him, my dad came into
Speaker 1: my mind. It's weird how I'm monophone and I'm hearing
Speaker 1: them speak by My mind is racing with all these
Speaker 1: different emotions, you know. And I said, look, man, I'm
Speaker 1: looking to make a deal, but I'm looking to make
Speaker 1: the best deal you ever made. He tells me like
Speaker 1: I could care less about some some guys on the
Speaker 1: South Side telling drugs, you know. I said, I got
Speaker 1: three people fail and I told him again, I got
Speaker 1: chapel my not and like me laugh really sarcastic Lad,
Speaker 1: and I felt like I wasn't getting through either. They
Speaker 1: don't know who I'm talking about. They just don't believe it.
Speaker 1: And then that's why I want them. If you could
Speaker 1: give me information they would lead to that that's what
Speaker 1: I want. And we had some like conversations that were
Speaker 1: like they're vague to me because of what I was
Speaker 1: feeling was soberpowering, like of nervous, so, you know, guilt fear.
Speaker 1: I told me, know, I need to keep this between
Speaker 1: us because my life would be as my family's life
Speaker 1: at And towards the end of the conversation it wasn't long.
Speaker 1: He tells me, the one thing I can tell you
Speaker 1: is that but it would be the most valuable thing
Speaker 1: you can do is start if you can documented some
Speaker 1: of these conversations. I'm like, they're like, how like recordings. Well,
Speaker 1: I can't necessarily tell you do that right now, but yes,
Speaker 1: if you can't. So I went to radio shop and
Speaker 1: buy a bunch of recording device. Radio shack was getting
Speaker 1: another Florist Twin as a customer. Pete went to the
Speaker 1: same radio shack and brought the same recorder that his
Speaker 1: brother j had originally used to record Loope at Chapo's request,
Speaker 1: but this time the recorded would be used to get
Speaker 1: chop out himself on tape. What were the recording devices
Speaker 1: like like a silver one with I remember, had like
Speaker 1: an orange a screen and they had a USB connection
Speaker 1: to her, and then it was like a big blue one,
Speaker 1: Like the silver was small, but the bloom was a
Speaker 1: little bit thank you bigger. In the first conversation I
Speaker 1: recorded was a shipment for like four kilos, and the
Speaker 1: fens were supposed to be like helping me a coordinate
Speaker 1: to seizure and how we were like still like Rocky.
Speaker 1: It was Rocky, Like they're telling me come in. They
Speaker 1: want you to come in, like turn yourself into the cussory. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the the US government, and then they don't let you go,
Speaker 1: Like no way, I'm not doing that. I'm like I'm not.
Speaker 1: That's definitely something I'm not done. Oh well, the office
Speaker 1: don't have the authority too, you know, to negotiate with
Speaker 1: a future tip. I'm like, okay, thank you. Then let's
Speaker 1: move on, you know. Getting clearance, I guess from the
Speaker 1: Department of Justice, business and things like that took some time.
Speaker 1: And when I was first trying to show them that
Speaker 1: I was serious. Now give him like a load just
Speaker 1: to show them. Okay, this is like men beginning to
Speaker 1: give them one of your own lays. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I was trying to hook them in, hook them in,
Speaker 1: make them want to understand like what we're capable of
Speaker 1: doing for them. They were like not able to promise
Speaker 1: me that my family would be kept safe or that
Speaker 1: my name would be off any kind of all documentation.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I can't do that. Then, like
Speaker 1: if you get to go rest people put my name
Speaker 1: on it, then you blew my over there and kill me.
Speaker 1: Tittle mom, I've been getting these many you know, I
Speaker 1: get two three loads, were two loads a week, eight
Speaker 1: ten times a month, doing many kilos. I told him, look,
Speaker 1: I got a load of for the killos coming, so
Speaker 1: they couldn't like get their stuff together. The next conversation
Speaker 1: we had was like maybe ten days later, and they're like,
Speaker 1: what did you do with the load? So why I
Speaker 1: went with the load like a km and what you're
Speaker 1: doing when I shold it? And they're just quiet? What
Speaker 1: did they expect me to do? What would have happened
Speaker 1: if you hadn't done that would play in your COVERA
Speaker 1: of course, I think people understand when you're at a
Speaker 1: bringing that level, like there's no weekends off. The cartel
Speaker 1: sells drugs. That's what they do every day. Some people
Speaker 1: aren't charged. They're killing people. Some people are charge of,
Speaker 1: you know, corruption, some people are charge of moving the drugs.
Speaker 1: We sold drugs and we're picking up shipments and dropping
Speaker 1: off money every day, where you know, there's something being
Speaker 1: transported money and drugs day in and day out. And
Speaker 1: they would have been so rare for me to be like,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to accept the load for me, or
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna this just didn't happen. I just never happened,
Speaker 1: especially not during the time where there's a war and
Speaker 1: they're telling you to pick sides. That was ridiculously stressful
Speaker 1: that you couldn't stop. I wish I could have just
Speaker 1: stopped and told everybody, you know what, let me get
Speaker 1: some time to figure this out. But there was no
Speaker 1: pause button, and to tell them that hold on, don't
Speaker 1: send me no work or something, don't send me a
Speaker 1: cocaine would have been like made them be like, why
Speaker 1: are they choosing sides? So, by the way, whether it
Speaker 1: was made them suspicious if choosing sides or the fans.
Speaker 1: They would have just killed you as soon as I
Speaker 1: was some suspicion. Yeah, and it's sad to think that
Speaker 1: you could be so brave and be such a big
Speaker 1: shot in your own eyes or something and just be
Speaker 1: a sitting duck. M It took a lot of this
Speaker 1: talking back and forth, trying to find out how is
Speaker 1: this going to work? We are fugitives. The United States
Speaker 1: does not negotiate with fugitives. We couldn't actually talk about
Speaker 1: how would all agreement work. At one time they wanted
Speaker 1: us to fly to the closest district and plead guilty
Speaker 1: and then they would let us back up or something
Speaker 1: like that, you know, to corporate And that was not
Speaker 1: a chance that I mean, my brother were gonna take
Speaker 1: it like you want me to go over and Figures
Speaker 1: did come back with no deal. Like we said, absolutely
Speaker 1: Now we had to make sure that when we were
Speaker 1: in Mexico and it was our lives and our family
Speaker 1: that we were going to be charted, we didn't need guidance.
Speaker 1: And I guess it turned out that since we were fusitive,
Speaker 1: they couldn't negotiate. So it was a good faith cooperation.
Speaker 1: We're gonna be cooperati with a good faith and then
Speaker 1: see how it happens. And they really couldn't tell us
Speaker 1: what to do because and then they hold the responsibility
Speaker 1: of our lives being in danger in our family's life.
Speaker 1: Technically they couldn't do that, and they didn't want to
Speaker 1: do that. So basically it was like, Okay, you're gonna
Speaker 1: corperate for like, I can't tell you how to do it.
Speaker 1: So I used to be Hey, we'll listen, how do
Speaker 1: you want to do this. One of the ages wants
Speaker 1: to come with me to go see Chapel. And then
Speaker 1: I'm thinking they feels jump about the air, like what
Speaker 1: was going to happen? It doesn't work that way. They
Speaker 1: need him build a Keith. And their main focus was
Speaker 1: gonna be Chapel. Ah, yeah, yeah, I mean focus would
Speaker 1: be Chapel. We're just trying to do the right deal.
Speaker 1: It was like kind of right, not not real guidance.
Speaker 1: They were worried about us. I never worried about the
Speaker 1: case for sure. In order to hash out the details
Speaker 1: of the good faith cooperation, the Feds and the Twins
Speaker 1: would have to meet in person in exchange for turning
Speaker 1: over Chapo. They wanted a visa for their brother and
Speaker 1: fugitive father to be able to live freely in the US.
Speaker 1: As far as Pete and j were concerned, that was
Speaker 1: a non negotiable. If there was to be a deal made,
Speaker 1: the FED sent a team of undercover agents down to Mexico.
Speaker 1: They want to come down and meet us. It's gonna
Speaker 1: be a neutral spot. And it was nerve working. What's
Speaker 1: a neutral spot. It was a neutral spot where they
Speaker 1: thought that we could go and be safe and they
Speaker 1: could be safe. Did they pick Yeah, the first part
Speaker 1: they picked was cobbles and lucas. I guess they'll fit
Speaker 1: in right as stories and we would fit in there.
Speaker 1: I think that was a little bit hard. They had
Speaker 1: that conversation, who's going to go? I think that was
Speaker 1: feeling rougher than't even thinking about who's gonna go see Chapbol,
Speaker 1: Like if we had to decide we never met him, Like,
Speaker 1: who's going to go and sit down with the government?
Speaker 1: Did you impede sit and have the conversation? Oh? Did
Speaker 1: you sit down in the bathroom again? Were in the
Speaker 1: bathroom and they carried on in the bathroom. Every chance
Speaker 1: we got was gonna be a bathroom. Thank god. We
Speaker 1: had a nice bathroom and there is no Washington business
Speaker 1: going on either. It was just conversation and I don't
Speaker 1: we call my brothers same mh, I'm gonna go Jane.
Speaker 1: He took that responsibility. He said one of us had
Speaker 1: to call, and we can't risk both of us. He said,
Speaker 1: I'm going to make that trip because we're thinking that
Speaker 1: he could be arrested and you know who else going
Speaker 1: to meet the fats. It was so like horrible my
Speaker 1: first meeting. I got sick, like I was so like
Speaker 1: messed up. I got sick on the plane. I got
Speaker 1: on the plane, get threw up a lot to plane.
Speaker 1: It threw up because as yeah, so it's just I'm
Speaker 1: meeting the facts and there's like super pregnant. It's an
Speaker 1: ugly time man, just telling my brother like just some kids.
Speaker 1: They don't let me go scary. We're in the hotel
Speaker 1: where my attorney is saying that I'm gonna leave there
Speaker 1: at the hotel alone, and I'm like, I'm sorry, but
Speaker 1: just cause I don't come back whatever it is, just
Speaker 1: go home and go back to Chicago. You know, I
Speaker 1: leave there with this sense of heaviness again. You know,
Speaker 1: these situations that put myself and then put her in
Speaker 1: and we're getting a taxi. You know, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: get information from my attorney and he's like I can't.
Speaker 1: We don't know. And I remember walking into the hotel
Speaker 1: lobby like and looking around, I see like people looking
Speaker 1: reading the newspapers. Like you think they don't do that,
Speaker 1: but they do. Walking up they can elevate it to
Speaker 1: the hotel, like that long hallway to the hotel room.
Speaker 1: And then just knocking on the door. Who knows what's
Speaker 1: behind the door? Yea, praying to God that that's one
Speaker 1: of the good doors, you know. Having the guy opened
Speaker 1: the door and just looking at him, I go through him.
Speaker 1: I remember I could see like a room full of people,
Speaker 1: you know, behind them. Remember him telling me right away
Speaker 1: like grand the wall and I'm like ohh And they
Speaker 1: frisked me just for any weapons. They like, all right,
Speaker 1: go ahead. I was like okay, I was waiting for handcuffs.
Speaker 1: And then he introduced himself and I see everyone and
Speaker 1: it's weird, you know, and they are kind of like
Speaker 1: looking at me, like looking at each other, like really,
Speaker 1: it's just the guy. And I noticed that you did
Speaker 1: in those circumstances that they have comes and I'm like,
Speaker 1: you didn't tell nobody I was here, right, and the
Speaker 1: guys like I know you. He's looking like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: know you. When he said that to me, I'm like,
Speaker 1: he knows me? Wait, I said, are use the guy
Speaker 1: from the gym? And he was like, yeah, how do
Speaker 1: you know? I was like, you don't know me? I said,
Speaker 1: you know my brother and like you don't want to
Speaker 1: drive that, you know, black expedition. He's like, yeah, how
Speaker 1: do you know that? And like everyone knows that my
Speaker 1: brother was going to the stupid gym And he tells me.
Speaker 1: And there's a guy in there, just like a fat
Speaker 1: he'll be working on stuff, but you're looking around, but
Speaker 1: he has a he's been wearing a barriede sweater. He
Speaker 1: has like comparison what he's for it, you know. I'm like,
Speaker 1: all right, just stop going to the gym. Just too bad.
Speaker 1: And I stopped going with the people too, Like you're
Speaker 1: not gonna imagine him with the phones and everything. The
Speaker 1: next time, Jade calls me like, bro, it's the facts
Speaker 1: that guy told you about. I followed him out like
Speaker 1: he was in a black expedition with diplomatic plates. I'm like,
Speaker 1: stop going to the gym, man, you know, stop playing
Speaker 1: around with that. Just stop going to the gym. And
Speaker 1: this agent turns out to be the guy from the gym,
Speaker 1: then he's nerves like how do you know what cards? Right?
Speaker 1: And then I have to go through this. I'm like, wait,
Speaker 1: they know what kind of courage you, right, they know
Speaker 1: what subdivision you're living because of your diplomatic plates. I said,
Speaker 1: there's some one of you guys drive a lane cruiser,
Speaker 1: you know, like looking at each other like I'm like
Speaker 1: one of you guys has pit bulls or something, right,
Speaker 1: They're like shocked. We kind of get into the conversations.
Speaker 1: I remember the first thing I talked to him about
Speaker 1: was like, look, I have I have a lot of
Speaker 1: information for you guys, but I need to be reassured
Speaker 1: and easier to know that I want. I want to
Speaker 1: promise that and no harm is gonna be come to
Speaker 1: my family, that you're gonna promise to keep them safe
Speaker 1: and that then nobody in my family will be prosecuted
Speaker 1: for any of the crimes related to my drug trafficking.
Speaker 1: And it was like, do you think we can give
Speaker 1: a funk about your family? I'm just saying though this
Speaker 1: is the number one thing I don't want just to
Speaker 1: I didn't come here for that. Kind of went through
Speaker 1: the story of you know, to what degree involved in
Speaker 1: the cartel, and they would just look at each other.
Speaker 1: And when I would say that, and they're like, what
Speaker 1: do you think you move a month? How much cocaine
Speaker 1: do you think? Curiousity? And I'm momsly, basically, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, fifty units, two keys or something. I
Speaker 1: can imagine like now the way that sounds. But at
Speaker 1: the time, I was like, no big deal. I'm not
Speaker 1: seeing it like no big deal. But it was just
Speaker 1: like your life, you know, God look at each other
Speaker 1: and they can't explain to me their position. I remember
Speaker 1: the first time the prosecutor did threaten me a little bit,
Speaker 1: like he got a little like back up. I looked
Speaker 1: at my turn, like this fucking guy doesn't know. You
Speaker 1: don't have to thriven me. I'm here to talk to you.
Speaker 1: There's nothing you can say. There's gonna you're not gonna
Speaker 1: put bear in mind, like I'm here to talk to you.
Speaker 1: I know what I'm looking at. What did you say?
Speaker 1: I think about life in prison? And I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: here talking to you, like, wait, what's wrong. I guess
Speaker 1: he had that in his mind, like to get a
Speaker 1: little bit like show you who's boss and the way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I'm here talking to you. I came
Speaker 1: in here brilliant to speak to you. And of course
Speaker 1: we discussed what I was interested in, getting the best
Speaker 1: deal possible, you know, the talk of being truthful. I
Speaker 1: have a lot of information that comes to realize that
Speaker 1: they're saying that yeah, yeah, all that submarine talk and
Speaker 1: all that tons of cocaine and pens and fifties and
Speaker 1: millions of dollars and it's good, but it's not good
Speaker 1: that we can't put a case around it. But we
Speaker 1: needed a solid case and chops and we could get
Speaker 1: him with the recording that leads back to a drug
Speaker 1: seizure in Chicago. I promise you the best deal you
Speaker 1: can ever imagine. You get, the besier the government has
Speaker 1: ever given up. And I was like, that's it, just again.
Speaker 1: Step It was one like that's how you want like,
Speaker 1: and they are looking like I was crazy. I left
Speaker 1: them feeling like kind of weird because no plan, Like
Speaker 1: I'm thinking They're gonna come and be like here, look
Speaker 1: at this is like a special pen with a GPS
Speaker 1: and on specially like recording device. This is how you're
Speaker 1: gonna do it. And we're gonna do this, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna and it wasn't like that. It doesn't feel good
Speaker 1: to me. They didn't really tell me nothing like we're
Speaker 1: kind of on our own a little bit. I went
Speaker 1: in there. I turned myself in with the hope that
Speaker 1: everything wouldn't be turned out for the best. And the
Speaker 1: one thing I had was that I provided extraordinary cooperation.
Speaker 1: I do remember like my brother calling him, I want
Speaker 1: to know details, and I remember him saying, Bro, they
Speaker 1: don't know what the fun they're doing. They're lost. They're
Speaker 1: just lost. I don't know if this is a good idea.
Speaker 1: That didn't make us feel good. He was upset. He
Speaker 1: came back. He was just frustrating, he said. I asked
Speaker 1: on what they wanted. They said that they wanted to
Speaker 1: phone conversation with Choppo, and I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: and they looked at me. He said, how long did
Speaker 1: you think he will take you? And he's like, non,
Speaker 1: give me a couple of weeks, and they laughed. He said, bro,
Speaker 1: they laughed at me. He was so upset with that.
Speaker 1: He said that they made me write a diagram of
Speaker 1: where we were were in the cartel, and he has
Speaker 1: a piece of paper ricks he said, this is what
Speaker 1: I drew and he writes the name Chop point Mayo
Speaker 1: and a b l at was trying it and he
Speaker 1: does three looks, fix a P which point don't you understand?
Speaker 1: Surviving l Chapo, The Twins Who brought Down a Drug
Speaker 1: Lord is hosted by Curtis fifty cent Jackson and me
Speaker 1: Charlie Webster. Our producers are myself alongside Jackson mcclennan. Research
Speaker 1: and editorial support is from Casey Hurtz. Edit and sound
Speaker 1: design by Nico Palella. Original score by Ryan Sorenson. Executive
Speaker 1: produced by Curtis fifty cent Jackson and myself Charlie Webster.
Speaker 1: If you'd like to know more about this story, head
Speaker 1: over to lions Gate Sound dot com. Curtis fifty tent
Speaker 1: Jackson presents a lions Gate Sound and G Unit audio
Speaker 1: production exclusively for a Heart podcast