Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: I think it's a really important behavior. If people realize
Speaker 1: I think it's okay to fail, comes out a silking
Speaker 1: valid and fail fast, get smarter quick. We don't want
Speaker 1: to be a traditional player in the space. We want
Speaker 1: to be the provocatur Hi. I'm Bob Pittman. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to Math and Magic. Stories from the Frontiers and Marketing.
Speaker 1: On each episode, we explored the interaction of the two
Speaker 1: keys to successful marketing and business, the analytics, the math,
Speaker 1: the data, and the creative and the magical ideas created
Speaker 1: to respond to identified needs or opportunities. Today we have
Speaker 1: someone in the middle of the transformation of the advertising
Speaker 1: and media business to reflect the possibilities and full potential
Speaker 1: unleashed by technology. He's a pioneer of digital advertising and
Speaker 1: sits a top Group M at w PP, the world's
Speaker 1: largest advertising and marketing holding company. He's Richtian Jewel, the
Speaker 1: global CEO of Group M. Christian was born in Guam,
Speaker 1: a military family kid who moved a lot from New
Speaker 1: Hampshire to California. He wanted to be a pilot, but
Speaker 1: his dad told him he was too tall. As a
Speaker 1: young man. He had a great curiosity that opened the
Speaker 1: world to him. He was a digital pioneer who survived
Speaker 1: the dot com bust and emerged as a senior leader
Speaker 1: of razor Fish, including its time as a part of
Speaker 1: Microsoft and then Publicists. He went on to be the
Speaker 1: global CEO for Essence before his current mission. He's been
Speaker 1: in small and entrepreneurial and he's been at the largest
Speaker 1: and has a unique perspectives as a result. He's known
Speaker 1: for being a keen strategist, a transformation expert, and a
Speaker 1: strong culture builder. He mountain bikes, plays golf skis and
Speaker 1: is still tall. Christian Welcome, Thanks for having me. Before
Speaker 1: we get started, I'd like to give everybody a quick
Speaker 1: view of you in sixty seconds. Ready. Do you prefer
Speaker 1: cats or dogs? Thoughts or early riser or night owl?
Speaker 1: Early riser? The wire or the crown? The wire? T
Speaker 1: shirt or tie T shirt? Hiking or fishing, Hiking to
Speaker 1: a good fishing spot, Michigan or Alaska? Alaska? Trombone or
Speaker 1: trumpet trumpet? Work life balance or work life integration? Favorite band?
Speaker 1: What have I've been listening to? Billy Strings? If you
Speaker 1: weren't working in marketing, what would you be doing teaching
Speaker 1: childhood hero my dad favorite brand from your childhood, Alexander
Speaker 1: Colure has made these great sweaters and I thought they
Speaker 1: were so cool. Never had one pretty expensive back in
Speaker 1: the day marketing campaign you're most proud of. I love
Speaker 1: the Nike work that we did. Guilty Pleasure Pringles ideal
Speaker 1: Sunday afternoon, walking the dog with my son. First concert
Speaker 1: Paul Sign and Rhythm of the Saints. My mother took
Speaker 1: me first job washing dishes at Pasta Fresco outside Sacramento, California. Okay,
Speaker 1: the last one. If you could time trap, would you
Speaker 1: go back to the past or go to the future future.
Speaker 1: Let's get started way back in one we launched MTV,
Speaker 1: one of the first cable only networks, and at that
Speaker 1: time Nielsen just measured viewing a broadcast TV. You can
Speaker 1: imagine the advertiser's reaction. Great idea, come back to me
Speaker 1: when you've got some numbers. But a couple of folks
Speaker 1: saw this as an opportunity to get a jump on competitors.
Speaker 1: Roger and Rico was running Pepsi at the time and
Speaker 1: was hell bent on moving his share against Coke. He
Speaker 1: saw these young people watching MTV so in the absence
Speaker 1: of any ratings, he buys us. Coke, on the other hand,
Speaker 1: said we have no interest until you have measurement, and
Speaker 1: Coke sat on the sidelines for over five years. In
Speaker 1: that time, Roger moved the market share of Pepsi against
Speaker 1: Coke the most it's ever been moved before or after.
Speaker 1: And this example, Pepsi picked performance, even though it's harder
Speaker 1: to quantify. Coke chose measurement. In the next decade, when
Speaker 1: we took the Internet to the mass market, I was
Speaker 1: at a o L at the time in the nineteen
Speaker 1: nineties and is reminded over half the traffic of the
Speaker 1: Internet in the US came through a o L in
Speaker 1: those days, and we did have the data, metrics and performance.
Speaker 1: Yet the major agencies at that time ignored digital l abvertizing.
Speaker 1: Even though a o L had gone from few million
Speaker 1: dollars in advertising to billions of dollars in that five
Speaker 1: year period, eight percent of the ad revenue did not
Speaker 1: come through agencies. This lack of adoption really opened the
Speaker 1: door for all those digital only agencies that sprung up.
Speaker 1: You are part of that and later had to be
Speaker 1: acquired at much bigger prices. When it became obvious how
Speaker 1: huge the digital tam was becoming. So two decades later
Speaker 1: and two examples of dislocation at a time of change,
Speaker 1: and here we are in You're now not the new guard.
Speaker 1: You are the establishment. You're the global CEO of Group M,
Speaker 1: though we're fifty billion billings thirty five thousand employees worldwide,
Speaker 1: and you're evolving Group M to continue to be a
Speaker 1: major leader. So here's the question. How are you evolving
Speaker 1: the business, the structure and the culture to take advantage
Speaker 1: of your unique data and enormous scale, and how do
Speaker 1: you avoid the pitfalls like the ones I just mentioned
Speaker 1: to make uncomfortable change acceptable to your organization. You know,
Speaker 1: I talked about the early days of people taking risks
Speaker 1: without actually understanding the full metrics or measurement or the
Speaker 1: things that today we would take for granted. In terms
Speaker 1: of putting a media deal together. I think there's always
Speaker 1: an element in advertising and marketing about, you know, early
Speaker 1: movers and those who are willing to take a chance
Speaker 1: in the reward that can pay off with that. Early
Speaker 1: days of the Internet, there were a lot of failures.
Speaker 1: You know, I lived through a lot of it. I
Speaker 1: mean I started on the Internet in company called us
Speaker 1: Web and tragically bought my first house on my first
Speaker 1: commission check I think in two thousand one, roughly five
Speaker 1: days before the company filed for bankruptcy as March first,
Speaker 1: and which was a rather trying moment for myself. When
Speaker 1: you look at that, it's not even just about two
Speaker 1: thousand one. If you look at even more recently, I'm
Speaker 1: like women in Jeff Katzenberg doing Queeby and the amount
Speaker 1: of money they're able to raise and then subsequent decline
Speaker 1: to that business. So you're always in this place where
Speaker 1: you're trying to make the right decisions about which media
Speaker 1: partners to work with and which sort of creative outlets
Speaker 1: are going to bring the most connection between brands and consumers,
Speaker 1: and I think there's never a perfect formula for it.
Speaker 1: Relative to home structuring group them, you talk about structure
Speaker 1: and culture and let's stay culture first, actually, because I
Speaker 1: think that's one of the biggest things coming out of
Speaker 1: Microsoft and publicists and going in to run Essence, which
Speaker 1: the time is about three people mostly in the UK,
Speaker 1: founder led organization, really shaped my view on culture and
Speaker 1: the power of culture as a true economic differentiator for
Speaker 1: a business. Tell then people talk about culture. They put
Speaker 1: mission revision on the walls and you see them around
Speaker 1: your office and like, okay, great. But the very first
Speaker 1: management meeting I had with the three founders of Essence,
Speaker 1: we run it out of the little room and soho
Speaker 1: LOFs in New York. And I was already for the job.
Speaker 1: I started as a us CEO only, so I built
Speaker 1: these plans and growth targets and key accounts and management
Speaker 1: team structures and what we were going to do and
Speaker 1: technology implementations. And I walk into this room and they're
Speaker 1: already there, and there are four chairs facing each other
Speaker 1: with no table in between, no screens, a little coffee bar,
Speaker 1: and Matt Isaac's who was to see you at the Times,
Speaker 1: has had a seat and before you can even know,
Speaker 1: stending okay, I'm ready to show you, guys what I
Speaker 1: think the North American plan should be. And he goes, no,
Speaker 1: no, no no, We've got three hours just to talk about
Speaker 1: how you're doing, what we think this thing might look
Speaker 1: like and feel like over time. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you've ever done that, really, just sit there with no
Speaker 1: table in a square with four people that you don't
Speaker 1: really know that well well you're trying to impress them
Speaker 1: about your knowledge of the business or what have you.
Speaker 1: But it's extremely uncomfortable. There's no barriers and there was
Speaker 1: no preconceived notion. And we sat there and sort of
Speaker 1: hashed out an understanding of what Essence was and how
Speaker 1: we wanted to treat each other as a management team,
Speaker 1: and how we wanted that to show up in our people.
Speaker 1: And I sum it up now and I've brought it
Speaker 1: to group. I'm as well. It's assuming positive intent at
Speaker 1: every turn, and I want everybody Group Time to feel
Speaker 1: like this is the place where their expression is welcome,
Speaker 1: where creative ideas are welcome, where they can disagree with management,
Speaker 1: where they can speak up, and where they're trusted, and
Speaker 1: where it's an environment of positive intent. When you took over,
Speaker 1: you flew something like over two hundred thousand miles to
Speaker 1: meet people all across group him. Were you doing those
Speaker 1: kinds of meetings like you did with the founders of
Speaker 1: Essence where you just sat and talked as opposed to
Speaker 1: show me your presentation. Yeah, I have an odd entrance
Speaker 1: point in the group them, right, we sold Essence into it.
Speaker 1: So I was a turnout CEO. So I was sort
Speaker 1: of a witness to the management team for three years.
Speaker 1: When I took over the job about three years ago. Now,
Speaker 1: one of the first things I did was just get
Speaker 1: the management teams together, and I said, we're gonna do
Speaker 1: things differently. We're gonna trust each other, we're gonna listen
Speaker 1: to each other. We're going to build a strategy together,
Speaker 1: and we're going to share that strategy with all thousand
Speaker 1: employees so that they know what the purpose of Group
Speaker 1: M is, what the purpose of the agencies are, how
Speaker 1: we can count our technology division. Up until that point,
Speaker 1: Group M was a collection of companies, and so trying
Speaker 1: to sit down and talk about the future of this
Speaker 1: industry and media is becoming technology driven. It looks more
Speaker 1: like software than it looks like manual planning in media deals,
Speaker 1: and we're going to get really good at automation and
Speaker 1: and understanding technology. And that means investing hundreds of mens
Speaker 1: and dollars and doing it once, not doing it in
Speaker 1: sixty different methods with different partners in every market around
Speaker 1: the world, and getting people aligned to that type of thinking.
Speaker 1: It requires a singularity of culture and understanding of how
Speaker 1: we're going to hold each other to account. In Even
Speaker 1: during the lockdown, you hosted a video series called The Regroup.
Speaker 1: What was that tool for in this cultural transformation? It
Speaker 1: was the way to stay connected, in a way to
Speaker 1: burn forward a lot of diverse voices from around the
Speaker 1: world with us, and I was talking to people in
Speaker 1: Pakistan and in India and in Europe, across the US,
Speaker 1: and to remind people of who's on the other end
Speaker 1: of the phone or the team's call. In this case,
Speaker 1: we really want to go wide and deep into the organization.
Speaker 1: We want to hear employee stories, We want to hear
Speaker 1: about the client work they were excited about. Between the
Speaker 1: reaction to that and your two hundred thousand miles of
Speaker 1: traveling and the listening tour, what revelations came out of
Speaker 1: it that you probably wouldn't have gotten had you not
Speaker 1: done those. I would say the amount of strength and
Speaker 1: some of our markets around the world, the amount of
Speaker 1: relationships with you know, the publisher's side and the client side.
Speaker 1: You know, when you go to market like India and
Speaker 1: we're close to market share, it's just a massive market
Speaker 1: with incredible strength from Group M and w PP there
Speaker 1: and it's just really really impressive to see the kind
Speaker 1: of clients that they work with and the programs they
Speaker 1: are able to put in place. And then when you
Speaker 1: go to other markets where we're still growing and learning,
Speaker 1: you know, just incredibly diverse business. You know, I think
Speaker 1: our on was forty two as and employees and eighty
Speaker 1: two different countries. I mean, it's just continues to grow
Speaker 1: in the strength even at that scale is really really impressive.
Speaker 1: You talked about some elements of corporate culture here and
Speaker 1: your values positive intent, trust, listen to each other, accountability,
Speaker 1: what else is important to you and that value system
Speaker 1: that builds up the corporate culture. Risk taking. I think
Speaker 1: that we really have to be willing to change ourselves
Speaker 1: and to realize that the way we've been doing things
Speaker 1: is not the way that will be successful doing things
Speaker 1: going forward. The migration in the digital, migration into programmatic
Speaker 1: I mean I really rapidly accelerated our investment in programmatic channels,
Speaker 1: pushing out a home into digital formats, looking what we're
Speaker 1: doing connected television, new partnerships like the Netflix Microsoft partnership.
Speaker 1: How do we embrace those in a way that we're
Speaker 1: not scared of holding onto things in the past that
Speaker 1: we're really successful with, but realizing you know, will find
Speaker 1: ways to be successful in these new markets, and our
Speaker 1: clients count on us to lead them into these new opportunities.
Speaker 1: And I think it's a really important behavior of people
Speaker 1: who realize that it's okay to fail, you know, and
Speaker 1: it comes out of silicon value and fail fast, get
Speaker 1: smarter quick, And we don't want to be a traditional
Speaker 1: player in the space. We want to be the provocateur.
Speaker 1: I suspect coming into your job, you found that probably
Speaker 1: the appetite for that risk taking and the fear of
Speaker 1: failure probably was at another level than you needed. How
Speaker 1: did you change that? How did you get people comfortable
Speaker 1: with that? What's really important? And the key thing that
Speaker 1: I did was I did that tour around the world
Speaker 1: and we formed something called our our Synergy Strategy, which
Speaker 1: was really just defining Group M as a global organization,
Speaker 1: the accountabilities between management agencies and ambition to build a
Speaker 1: large global shared services and media delivery organization. And we're
Speaker 1: making great progress on it. I mean, it's showing up
Speaker 1: in our new business wins, it's showing up in client
Speaker 1: satisfaction scores and the other piece. And I would just
Speaker 1: give a credit to Mark even us, you know, he
Speaker 1: asked me to take over group them three and a
Speaker 1: half years ago. I mean I never saw coming, and
Speaker 1: I literally said, you would not want me to do
Speaker 1: what I want to do to group them. That's the CEO.
Speaker 1: I just said, I can't imagine what I want to
Speaker 1: do with something that's attractive to you. I write a
Speaker 1: whole new blueprint and I sketched out for im on
Speaker 1: a piece of paper, and he goes go to it.
Speaker 1: You have a complete, total authority to do ever you
Speaker 1: need to do to make those changes. I think that's
Speaker 1: what needs to do. Also more on math and magic
Speaker 1: right after this quick break. Welcome back to math and magic.
Speaker 1: Let's hear more from my conversation with Christian Jewel. I
Speaker 1: want to go back in time just a little bit
Speaker 1: to get some more context on you. You were born
Speaker 1: in the early seventies, grew up moving around as a
Speaker 1: kid in the eighties and nineties. Can you paint the
Speaker 1: picture of those times and your life? Then? My families
Speaker 1: from Michigan, sort of Midwestern cultures and values to family.
Speaker 1: My mom's school teacher. My dad join the military out
Speaker 1: of Vietnam and shows the Air Force. You know, his
Speaker 1: first station was in Guam, and you know, I don't
Speaker 1: remember much about it, but when they were moved to
Speaker 1: New Atwer and kind of spend some time there, and
Speaker 1: I remember a pretty traditional family, you know, my dad
Speaker 1: it's kind of home by five, and my mom's a
Speaker 1: teacher and be home and we dump dinner together, an
Speaker 1: older sister and a younger brother. And we moved to Alaska.
Speaker 1: You know, Alaska was great. We're outside a lot. We
Speaker 1: had a camper trailer, and we spent almost all summer
Speaker 1: out at the river fishing and pike in picking blueberries.
Speaker 1: And we had a family car game called Cutthroat, which
Speaker 1: is sort of a lot like gym and we don't
Speaker 1: play that and pretty simple and very very nice. And
Speaker 1: then we moved down to California. Talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about that moving. How did all this moving affect you.
Speaker 1: It's only in recent years I've actually come to think
Speaker 1: about that, to tell the truth, I've seen my own
Speaker 1: son and grow up, and I've seen the friendships that
Speaker 1: he's developed and how close they are. You know, I
Speaker 1: kind of realized the challenges and moving around so much
Speaker 1: gring and I look back and I see some people
Speaker 1: now that I'm close with who have friendships from kindergarten
Speaker 1: or beyond, and I'm jealous about looks amazing to be
Speaker 1: able to have that, And I think that's something you
Speaker 1: don't get, you know, when you're in a family that
Speaker 1: moves every four years, and relationships or something that probably
Speaker 1: the most important thing in your life, and to be
Speaker 1: able to maintain and sustain those It's something I've worked
Speaker 1: on a harder at in the last fifteen years of
Speaker 1: my life than I did before. What kind of kid
Speaker 1: were you? How did you define yourself and what was
Speaker 1: your own self image? I don't think I any kind
Speaker 1: of a weirdness to try and define myself. I think
Speaker 1: I was trying to get from point at a point
Speaker 1: the most of the time to my childhood. You know,
Speaker 1: part of the challenge moving out of different schools and
Speaker 1: being different, you know, moving to California from Alaska, I
Speaker 1: remember kids walking to me and you know, deep live
Speaker 1: in a very, very different and I think, you know,
Speaker 1: struggling with being different was the real thing. And then
Speaker 1: you know, my parents believe along in classical music, and
Speaker 1: I had to pick up traditional instrument and then end
Speaker 1: up in the jazz band. And I assure you, being
Speaker 1: in the marching band in California, wearing a buttoned coat
Speaker 1: and top hat and leading the band out onto the
Speaker 1: football field was no cooler then than it is today.
Speaker 1: Probably I was sponsors and academic and you know, probably
Speaker 1: a very awkward teenager, which is amazing. Now I see
Speaker 1: my son in the same age group. You just joined
Speaker 1: high school this year and he plays his guitar and
Speaker 1: it's in this rock band program where they had to
Speaker 1: play two hours a day with some amazing musicians and teachers,
Speaker 1: and his first day of school, I was ten times
Speaker 1: more scared for him than he was. And I'm realizing
Speaker 1: he has so many more tools than I had at
Speaker 1: the time, and you know, ultimately it's just loving high
Speaker 1: school and it's wonderful to see him out slightly different
Speaker 1: experience than I had. That's amazing. I heard a story
Speaker 1: about you as an early entrepreneur. I heard that you
Speaker 1: had one business where you picked up reptiles and sold
Speaker 1: them to kids at school. Yeah. I've always been under
Speaker 1: the salesperson. I like having a little bit of money
Speaker 1: in my pocket with it outside of Sacramento, and there
Speaker 1: was a time in the bacon field between us and school,
Speaker 1: and obviously see lizards all over the place on the
Speaker 1: way on the way to school, and so I started
Speaker 1: to them, I doing little shoe box and then sell
Speaker 1: them in school until I got in troubled for selling
Speaker 1: lizards at school, and then I would stop that. In
Speaker 1: oh which case, at that point, I think Costco had
Speaker 1: just started coming out and they talked to my dad
Speaker 1: who buying those hundred packs of fitsy pops, And I
Speaker 1: started breaking down hundred packs and selling to the pops
Speaker 1: at school next. So it's kind of a catch me.
Speaker 1: If you can't situation with the administration of the school,
Speaker 1: what lessons from that child do you still use today?
Speaker 1: I think the importance of family. I think the importance
Speaker 1: of sitting down together. My dad actually started a computer
Speaker 1: technology company in the late nineties and we started his
Speaker 1: own copy've never gone before in the Air Force. Retired
Speaker 1: twenty seven years there. The courage took him to start
Speaker 1: his own company. It's still something like, you know, respect deeply,
Speaker 1: but the transition from family sitting down and dinner every
Speaker 1: night to my dad working until midnight or wanting it
Speaker 1: was profound and thinking about, you know, my own life
Speaker 1: now and I'm traveling so much for work, and how
Speaker 1: I tried to stay connected to my son and my family,
Speaker 1: you know, as my parents get older, and how you
Speaker 1: prioritize those types of things that you're gonna be there
Speaker 1: for each other. And you can get really tied up
Speaker 1: and work or making money or promotion or even just
Speaker 1: great ideas, but ultimately coming back to the family and
Speaker 1: relationships and making sure that you know that's not strong.
Speaker 1: Nothing else in your life is going to be strong.
Speaker 1: You took a gap here between high school and college.
Speaker 1: You went on do you see San Diego? You decided
Speaker 1: you did not want to be a doctor, you did
Speaker 1: not want to be a lawyer. Who was there any
Speaker 1: guiding light that that made college exciting for you? I
Speaker 1: grew up a lot in college. When I got to college,
Speaker 1: I really just realized I like learning a lot collect economics,
Speaker 1: about local science, aspects of biology and science just really
Speaker 1: became very comfortable with myself, and you know, that allowed
Speaker 1: me to start thinking about things that you know, I
Speaker 1: hadn't really done a spouse to people before. I knew
Speaker 1: about dad being a military and my mom school teacher,
Speaker 1: and had a lot of exposure to the business world
Speaker 1: and what was happening, and certainly the booming opportunities of
Speaker 1: the Internet, oology and what that was bringing, and to
Speaker 1: meet professors who would talk about those types of things
Speaker 1: and how corporations were structured, and you know, it's just
Speaker 1: really an amazing time in my life. After school, you
Speaker 1: went to Japan taught English. What lessons did you pick
Speaker 1: up from that that that are still with you today? Empathy?
Speaker 1: I mean I applied to the Japanese English Teaching Programs
Speaker 1: JET programs, what they call it pretty competitive program that
Speaker 1: the Japanese government puts out over for a year or
Speaker 1: two years. I want to fully pay program where they
Speaker 1: put you up in housing and they kind of see
Speaker 1: these English teachers all through the country of Japan to
Speaker 1: really just teach. In my case of well middle school kids.
Speaker 1: I ended up up in the north place called Yonazawa,
Speaker 1: which is about a hundred thousand people. I was one
Speaker 1: of three English speakers in town. I lived in one
Speaker 1: of the thatched roof places. It was incredibly difficult to
Speaker 1: get around. An amount of kindness that I was shown,
Speaker 1: and the amount of people that would as I was lost,
Speaker 1: not just point me in the direction, but walk me there.
Speaker 1: I think about it when I see tourists all the
Speaker 1: time now, whether it's you know, anywhere I'm at in
Speaker 1: the world, but New York or San Francisco. You know
Speaker 1: that just that a little bit of after trying to
Speaker 1: help somebody feel like you're looking out for and that
Speaker 1: you know you care and that you want them to
Speaker 1: have good experience when they're in your country doing math
Speaker 1: and magic. I talked to a lot of people, and
Speaker 1: there's always something in the research that goes, wow, that's unexpected.
Speaker 1: And the unexpected in your case was you began your
Speaker 1: career ge Capital, and knowing you and thinking about you
Speaker 1: at G Capital seems so out of place. Tell us
Speaker 1: how you wound up there and what that was in
Speaker 1: terms of the stage of your career building. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I came back. My dad at the time, like I said,
Speaker 1: he started a computer networking company and they's sold in
Speaker 1: a lot of computers and technology to corporations and offices
Speaker 1: and things like that. He knew someone Compact. They introduced
Speaker 1: me to the general manager in San Francisco. I was
Speaker 1: sleeping on my college roomates floor trying to figure out
Speaker 1: what kind of job I was gonna get when I
Speaker 1: came back. They have Capital I T Solutions and they
Speaker 1: were a big computer and services reseller, and so I
Speaker 1: went in, got a job. There's customer service, and I
Speaker 1: rode the Jade church down every morning and six an't
Speaker 1: a suit and time and got to know the technology
Speaker 1: side of the business. And then after about a year
Speaker 1: they launched a big services group, and the services group
Speaker 1: sort of the first thing was accountable or anything remotely
Speaker 1: you know, to Internet. And that's when things were just starting.
Speaker 1: It's one of those weird things that happened to Levi.
Speaker 1: Strouss company went into a review to outsource all their
Speaker 1: services and we're going to their restructuring and I got
Speaker 1: to know the guy there, and g had just launched
Speaker 1: the service, and you know, we're probably not particularly prepaired
Speaker 1: to take on anything of Levi size. And I sold
Speaker 1: this account for thirty seats across the United States and
Speaker 1: started working out of Levi for the next two years.
Speaker 1: And you know, at the time, then after I really
Speaker 1: started following low the coding and the Internet, that a
Speaker 1: company called us Web, somebody from company went over there
Speaker 1: and come over and look at these guys. I mean,
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe it. Bob, I walked Hadler, there's free
Speaker 1: coffee there's free food you guys are giving away. Harley
Speaker 1: Davidsons during the Christmas party, like, what is happening here
Speaker 1: that I'm not a part of? And I went over
Speaker 1: there is a strategy account leg and that kind of
Speaker 1: kicked off the next fifteen years of my career. You
Speaker 1: survived the dot com bust, You went through various iterations
Speaker 1: of the company until it became Razor Fish and was
Speaker 1: eventually acquired by publicists. What surprised you most about how
Speaker 1: digital laboratizing evolved? I mean you were there really at
Speaker 1: is practically the beginning. How did the reality contrast with
Speaker 1: your early view? I mean it's not all from Silicon Valley,
Speaker 1: just the boom the bus stories when they continue to repeat,
Speaker 1: when you see how things can get so big so
Speaker 1: quick and then gets so small so quick. I'll never forget.
Speaker 1: One of the iterations of the name was March First
Speaker 1: after Us, which was kind of the biggest internet consultancy
Speaker 1: at the time. Bob or Ours remember as we were
Speaker 1: going through it, I think Francisco Partners are just put
Speaker 1: in a hundred and fifty million dollars to keep the
Speaker 1: company afloat. And I saw Bob in the hallway and
Speaker 1: said the boy the way you know just about this house,
Speaker 1: like should I be concerned? It's like everybody else seems
Speaker 1: to be concerned. And he goes, don't worry, Christian ships,
Speaker 1: this big don't go down. Well there forget that quote.
Speaker 1: And two days later we filed for bankruptcy and people's
Speaker 1: paychecks started pat saying there were people who were having babies,
Speaker 1: and it turns out that Bob had stopped paying the
Speaker 1: premiums on our health insurance, so they were getting bills
Speaker 1: handed to them for twenty plus thousand dollars thinking the
Speaker 1: insurance when the in fact didn't have insurance. Disciples that
Speaker 1: we've gone through are just really tremendous, and the uncertainty
Speaker 1: that you deal with in some of those moments are
Speaker 1: something else could really comfortable with. I mean, I'm not
Speaker 1: kidding when I said, remember we used to take our
Speaker 1: paychecks and we'd go on those check cashing places to
Speaker 1: see if we could get them cashed, to see where
Speaker 1: you could get paid during those soume periods. I think
Speaker 1: fast forwarding today's workplace, you know, it's evolved so much.
Speaker 1: I think the role of government has changed so much.
Speaker 1: Sadly for the worst. I mean, people have really started
Speaker 1: looking at their companies is one of the most stable
Speaker 1: things in their lives and the responsibilities that come without.
Speaker 1: When we think about equality, opportunity, the way we treat
Speaker 1: each other, and the way we think about values and
Speaker 1: the way we hold each other accountable, is accountable and
Speaker 1: I contrast, that's when I started run, really was just
Speaker 1: talking my paycheck would cash. And it's a whole different
Speaker 1: world right now. I'm going to jump into it a
Speaker 1: little bit. Let's start with the first and which is
Speaker 1: the dot com bust, the beginning of the century, the
Speaker 1: big recession of O E O nine. You live through
Speaker 1: both of them, the pandemic, business downturn, and now we
Speaker 1: are in a period of some uncertainty. How do the
Speaker 1: learnings from those three help us navigate this and what
Speaker 1: do you see as a result of that. I still
Speaker 1: believe my primary job is to provide employment for our
Speaker 1: people in a sense of safety and security, so that
Speaker 1: they can make plans for their lives with mind. I
Speaker 1: think that what we have to do is make sure
Speaker 1: that we plan for the uncertainty. Who no one knows
Speaker 1: what's really coming. I don't know if China's going to
Speaker 1: open backed up next year. We have to make sure
Speaker 1: that we're listening to our clients and well provide them
Speaker 1: the flexibility that they need. And ultimately, you know, I
Speaker 1: have to predict the future just slightly better than everybody
Speaker 1: else so that I can do the right things for
Speaker 1: employees and our clients. Will say, every one of those downturns,
Speaker 1: you don't realize when you're coming out of it. It
Speaker 1: gets better much more slowly than it gets worse. And
Speaker 1: I think that one day you wake up and you realize, well,
Speaker 1: actually everything's okay. You rise up out of challenging times
Speaker 1: kind of inch by inch. I don't find it ever
Speaker 1: happens overnight. And I think just making sure that you know,
Speaker 1: you investment in things during these time periods that are
Speaker 1: really important to you. Maybe you postpone a couple of
Speaker 1: things that are nice to have, and you communicate. You know,
Speaker 1: I've been very front of our employees about it. Would
Speaker 1: you be really careful right now? It's not the time
Speaker 1: to make big bets. Let's stay close to our clients.
Speaker 1: Let to make sure we understand what's happening. You know,
Speaker 1: let's forecast a little more often than we used to
Speaker 1: they're really trying to ensure you know what's coming. You
Speaker 1: are a strong advocate of diversity, how do you make
Speaker 1: it a priority and make inclusion a part of your
Speaker 1: culture and operations? And what are the hurdles to making
Speaker 1: all of our not just your company, our senior management
Speaker 1: ranks in American business reflect the diversity of the communities
Speaker 1: we serve. Well, would you never do enough? That's simple.
Speaker 1: Truth is you have to believe in diversity. You know,
Speaker 1: it's not a target or goal. You know, the best
Speaker 1: leaders they're building really diverse and inclusive teams are those
Speaker 1: that understand ever seeing inclusion is good for you and
Speaker 1: never see it comes from a lot of different formats.
Speaker 1: I mean people who have come from different backgrounds, who
Speaker 1: weren't growing on Madison Avenue, whose parents didn't work in
Speaker 1: the industry. Those interesting people to bring into the business.
Speaker 1: People are experiencing the way marketing and advertising works around
Speaker 1: the world right now, and you bring them in, you
Speaker 1: put them in leadership positions, and you start having different conversations.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the media for a minute. You probably
Speaker 1: are the biggest supporter of media with your add dollars,
Speaker 1: and it's changed enormously we've seen the biggest TV network
Speaker 1: today has dropped below reach for the month. I'm in
Speaker 1: the audio sector here we are on a podcast the
Speaker 1: Death of Peace and Quiet, meaning people are filling up
Speaker 1: all those open spots now with audio, radio, playlist, podcasting
Speaker 1: or exploding. But that has shifted in the mix. I
Speaker 1: mean when I got into the business, TV was the
Speaker 1: big reach medium radio was second, and newspapers and magazines
Speaker 1: have big reach. How do you change your outlook on media?
Speaker 1: You know, you were there when people thought digital meant nothing,
Speaker 1: and now here it's number one in terms of media choices.
Speaker 1: How do you change those allocations? How do you get
Speaker 1: people to constantly watch and move things. One of the
Speaker 1: things that I'm most excited about running Group down is
Speaker 1: that you know, we are the biggest and you know,
Speaker 1: when I looked at about that, man, I didn't want
Speaker 1: to about this known as big, big is not always good,
Speaker 1: as we know, so you know when I largest opportunity
Speaker 1: about our size is to actually force the industry to
Speaker 1: take responsibility and to actually be better than we are.
Speaker 1: And we came out with a mission statement about making
Speaker 1: advertising we're better for people around the world, and I
Speaker 1: think that is the opportunity for media right now. I
Speaker 1: think we can make it less interus of I think
Speaker 1: we can be more respectful and how we run personalization.
Speaker 1: I think we have to really look at ethical use
Speaker 1: of data. We've got to look at the platforms when
Speaker 1: the best in and ultimately we talk about shifting dollars,
Speaker 1: you know, I think it's up to us to represent
Speaker 1: the real cost of media to our clients. It's not
Speaker 1: just a reach and frequency the equestion, right, you gotta
Speaker 1: look at what is the management's commitment to d E
Speaker 1: and I what is our commitment to responsible journalism? And
Speaker 1: how do we score all these types of things in
Speaker 1: a way that we can tell a client, Okay, this
Speaker 1: is what you say that you care about these things,
Speaker 1: then this is the real score. It's you know, their
Speaker 1: prices of twelve, but they actually cost sixteen, right Or
Speaker 1: on the flip side, hey, here's a company that deeply
Speaker 1: cares about these types of things and they're charging a
Speaker 1: little more for that, but you're getting something that really
Speaker 1: represents who your company values are. Now you can kind
Speaker 1: of walk the walk. And so in terms of shifting dynamics,
Speaker 1: whether digital or mobile or audio, I mean obviously we're
Speaker 1: talking on a podcast today. There's always new formats coming
Speaker 1: and going, and it's up to us to help our
Speaker 1: clients kind of guide that a complicated ecosystem, and I
Speaker 1: think ultimately, you know, we've shown the willingness to move
Speaker 1: dollars away from those that won't take responsibility for their
Speaker 1: actions in the world and to reward independent journalism or
Speaker 1: other partners, and they do stuff up and take that responsibility.
Speaker 1: If you could go back in time and give your
Speaker 1: twenty one year old self some advice, what would that
Speaker 1: advice be. I listened to your pen Horror. It's podcast.
Speaker 1: Take my advice. It is somewhat similar. I wish I're
Speaker 1: worried less so worried about everything. I do feel like
Speaker 1: worrying about all the small things along the way has
Speaker 1: over the taxed me in some capacity, and the things
Speaker 1: that way working out and maintaining positivity, continuing to learn,
Speaker 1: continue to be curious, and putting yourself around interesting people
Speaker 1: and opportunities. It's a good formula for things to kind of,
Speaker 1: let's say, take care of themselves, but good things generally happen.
Speaker 1: How do you deal with that in your work today?
Speaker 1: How do you encourage people to be aware but not
Speaker 1: to let it get into worry or do you think
Speaker 1: worry is a positive attribute for them? I think an
Speaker 1: aspect of worrying is good. I mean healthy paranoia. Competitors
Speaker 1: would love to have our clients most of the time irrational.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you're irrational, and you know, what does that look like?
Speaker 1: And how do we defend our our business and how
Speaker 1: we make sure our clients are growing and feel appreciated.
Speaker 1: That's always a fear, you know. I think we're minding
Speaker 1: people about what we've come through in the last three
Speaker 1: years and the strength and the resilience in the business
Speaker 1: and our global leadership and the relations ships we have
Speaker 1: a clients and foundations and technology and are incredible partnerships
Speaker 1: and media and I trust them all come together again
Speaker 1: to figure things out when the next top time gets
Speaker 1: to us. We in each episode by giving a shout
Speaker 1: out to our influences. This podcast is about both sides,
Speaker 1: about those who see the world with numbers, analytics, and data,
Speaker 1: the math side, and about those who have the magic,
Speaker 1: the creativity, intuition, showmanship. As you think about it, who
Speaker 1: gets the shout out for the math side and who
Speaker 1: gets the shout out for the magic side. Well, I
Speaker 1: started saying, I believe the tour intrinsically intertwined. Any great
Speaker 1: artist has a good basis and math, And if you
Speaker 1: look at great musicians, as you know, are generally pretty
Speaker 1: good at math. But in terms of the two, you
Speaker 1: know Andrew Shaver, who was one of the founders of Essence,
Speaker 1: It is one of the sharpest minds that I've ever met.
Speaker 1: He's gone on he's fighting climate change at at a
Speaker 1: company called Counteract now or they're looking at carbon removal
Speaker 1: and investing in small companies there. But Andrew was one
Speaker 1: sort of taught me when we come to the problem,
Speaker 1: let's see if software can do it first. Let's see
Speaker 1: if we can automate something first, Let's build something first.
Speaker 1: And just an incredibly brilliant guy, and I have every
Speaker 1: confidence in the world that he'll be making a positive
Speaker 1: change on our climate in the coming years. In terms
Speaker 1: of the creatives, I have to give a shout out
Speaker 1: to Lorraine to at Google for many, many reasons, but
Speaker 1: not the least of which she's been a steadfast supporter
Speaker 1: of of me and Essence and our growth with them
Speaker 1: as their primary marketing partner over the years. But also
Speaker 1: someone who always makes time for creativity, always talks about
Speaker 1: the bigger ideas, always pushes for getting out of the
Speaker 1: optimization loop that can just drive you into micro conversations.
Speaker 1: And it's always reminded me about you know, hey, we
Speaker 1: want to be famous, we want to be good, we
Speaker 1: want to push for better things in the world. And
Speaker 1: lives it and talks it and delivers it and continue
Speaker 1: to believe they'll push for for positive impact in the world.
Speaker 1: And I think that Lorraine is a great voice for that,
Speaker 1: and it does it in a very creative, elegant and
Speaker 1: amazing way. You been a pioneer in digital advertising marketing.
Speaker 1: Your proven c HEO can can navigate and even harness
Speaker 1: change and our evolving a company, and I would argue
Speaker 1: in an industry at enormous scale. Christian, thanks for sharing
Speaker 1: your valuable lessons and insights today. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: Here are a few things I picked up in my
Speaker 1: conversation with Christian. One take risks, as Christian says, you
Speaker 1: don't want to be the status quote. You want to
Speaker 1: be the change maker. Even if the path feels uncertain,
Speaker 1: keep pushing to create something new, to trust and positive intent,
Speaker 1: set high standards and no matter what happens, assume that
Speaker 1: your team wants to do their best. This assumption builds
Speaker 1: trust among colleagues and strengthens corporate culture. Three Plan for
Speaker 1: uncertain Christians or Vibe the dot com bust and came
Speaker 1: out the other side as a stronger leader. He's realized
Speaker 1: that uncertainty is inevitable, so it's important to pay attention
Speaker 1: to the world around you and lean into your strengths
Speaker 1: during challenges. I'm Bob Pittman, Thanks for listening. That's it
Speaker 1: for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening to Math
Speaker 1: and Magic, a production of I Heart Radio Show is
Speaker 1: hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Susan Ward for
Speaker 1: booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which is no small feel.
Speaker 1: Our editors are Derek Clements and Emily Mariott, our producer,
Speaker 1: Morgan Leavoy, our executive producer Nicky Eator and of course
Speaker 1: Gayle Raoul, Eric Angel Noel and everyone who helped bring
Speaker 1: this show to your ears. Until next time,