Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: We have to keep in mind that the Black community
Speaker 1: is not monolithic and that there are people with wide
Speaker 1: ranging views and opinions within the Black community, and for
Speaker 1: us to have any amount of credibility, we need to
Speaker 1: make sure that we have that balance in the reporting
Speaker 1: that we provide. Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, and welcome to
Speaker 1: Math and Magic. Stories from the Frontiers and Marketing. On
Speaker 1: this episode, we're going to hear from one of my
Speaker 1: colleagues at My Heart, someone who truly rose through the ranks,
Speaker 1: and it is one who led the team that created
Speaker 1: one of our most important new products, the only full
Speaker 1: time news service for the Black community, the Black Information Network.
Speaker 1: He's Tony Coles, the president of Black Information Network and
Speaker 1: also a division president overseeing a hundred and fifty six
Speaker 1: radio stations in one markets across America. Tony has a
Speaker 1: story of a painfully shy kid who lived on a
Speaker 1: farm in an incredibly small town in Ohio, who managed
Speaker 1: to overcome that shyness and become an on air radio
Speaker 1: personality and create an impressive career in radio. He moved
Speaker 1: on to the programming side of things from being talent
Speaker 1: and then joined the senior management ranks and programming, and
Speaker 1: finally took over an entire group of markets and stations
Speaker 1: as a division president. He believes in the power of
Speaker 1: mentoring in both business and in our society. He had
Speaker 1: parents that helped shape his success and he brings insights
Speaker 1: we all need to hear. His great grandfather was a
Speaker 1: slave in this country and his family even settled in
Speaker 1: Ohio through the power of the underground railroad. Farming was
Speaker 1: a way of life and his family and four h
Speaker 1: was even important part of his life. Tony, Welcome, Thank you, Bob.
Speaker 1: It's a pleasure to be here. We have so much
Speaker 1: to talk about today and stop you and I don't
Speaker 1: regularly explore, but first I want to do you in
Speaker 1: sixty seconds. You're ready? Ready? Do you prefer cats or dogs? Cats,
Speaker 1: salty or sweet? Sweet? Country or city city country music
Speaker 1: or top forty country music? Call or text text a
Speaker 1: M R F M. Love them both, but I'm going
Speaker 1: to go with FM on the mic or behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: behind the scenes every time it's about to get harder.
Speaker 1: Smartest person you know, I'm blessed to know a lot
Speaker 1: of smart folks, but I'm gonna lean into Greg Ashlock,
Speaker 1: who runs our markets groups. Favorite radio station w n
Speaker 1: C I and Columbus that was the big motivator. What
Speaker 1: was your favorite animal on the farm? Probably our horses,
Speaker 1: childhood hero, my dad, favorite band or artist. Probably gonna
Speaker 1: go with Tim McGraw. First job, w h I Z
Speaker 1: in Zanesville, Ohio, secret talent. A lot of people don't
Speaker 1: know about my cooking obsession, but cook. What topic can
Speaker 1: you talk about forever? Thanksgiving dinner for hours? Okay, Tony,
Speaker 1: Let's start with the biggest breakthrough in our company and
Speaker 1: our industry in quite a while. The Black Information Network
Speaker 1: twenty four hours of news serving the Black community. It's
Speaker 1: on digital, on the I Heart radio app, and over
Speaker 1: the air on almost all of our markets where we
Speaker 1: have large black communities, including New York, Atlanta, Miami, San Francisco, Detroit, Houston, Billion,
Speaker 1: dozens more. It also is the source of news for
Speaker 1: over a hundred of our hip hop, R and B
Speaker 1: and gospel stations, and it's also carried on some stations
Speaker 1: that My Heart doesn't own. It's local, national, and international news.
Speaker 1: Tell us how you describe Black Information Network and what's
Speaker 1: so unusual about it. The Black Information Network is first
Speaker 1: and foremost a news network that comes from the black perspective.
Speaker 1: When you have everyone from the writers, to the reporters
Speaker 1: to the anchors telling stories not necessarily from their point
Speaker 1: of view, but from their perspective, it makes a difference.
Speaker 1: And more importantly, we're sourcing stories that mainstream newsrooms would
Speaker 1: never tell only because they lack the diversity to bring
Speaker 1: some of these stories to light. And in the most
Speaker 1: diverse of those news rooms, those black voices don't always
Speaker 1: have the loudest voice in the room to make sure
Speaker 1: that those stories come to life. Talk about some examples, Tony,
Speaker 1: I know you use one with the war in Ukraine.
Speaker 1: Can you give us that one? Yeah, when when the
Speaker 1: war first broke out, there were a number of blacks
Speaker 1: and minorities who were having a hard time fleeing the
Speaker 1: country for their own safety. And we wanted to cover
Speaker 1: that perspective because it's not just about black life in America,
Speaker 1: but black life overall. And our team fortunately was able
Speaker 1: to contact a black reporter who was actually on the
Speaker 1: ground in Ukraine very quickly, so not only were we
Speaker 1: able to bring his perspective to an international crisis, but
Speaker 1: also to hear the stories of what was happening to
Speaker 1: minorities in that country in time of war was just
Speaker 1: incredibly insightful, and to be able to get that on
Speaker 1: very quickly was something we were proud of. When you
Speaker 1: talk about delivering news from the black perspective, you also
Speaker 1: have features as well. Can you talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about what some of those features are in the range
Speaker 1: of topics that you cover. We really want to make
Speaker 1: sure that we're engaging, entertaining, and forming, and I think
Speaker 1: that one of that stands out to me is uh,
Speaker 1: I bet you didn't know. With Tarik Low, we hear
Speaker 1: so many comments both within and outside the black community
Speaker 1: because what he does is take historic acts, things that
Speaker 1: that are little known to most people, either about people
Speaker 1: who were black and uh and made life changing either
Speaker 1: inventions or creations or changed the course of history. And
Speaker 1: a lot of people didn't know that they were African
Speaker 1: Americans who were doing that, or they were just little
Speaker 1: known historic facts that often don't show up in your
Speaker 1: typical history book. Talk to me a little bit about
Speaker 1: the style of journalism. You know, you and I spent
Speaker 1: a lot of time in the development of this and
Speaker 1: going back and forth about where our place would be
Speaker 1: contrasted to the kind of news that we are sort
Speaker 1: of in the headlines today as people talk about what's
Speaker 1: going on in the in the news media business. We've
Speaker 1: assembled a team that not only has you know, brand
Speaker 1: new journalists who are bringing not only a fresh perspective,
Speaker 1: but a fresh set of eyes and ideas to the
Speaker 1: news room and pairing them up with veteran journalist, award
Speaker 1: winning TV reporters and watching the interaction and the flow
Speaker 1: of ideas and content. It really not only make sure
Speaker 1: that the content that we have on the air runs
Speaker 1: the gamut in appeal to all ages and backgrounds, but
Speaker 1: it's also great to see some of these budding journalists
Speaker 1: developing in their own career because they have great role
Speaker 1: models within our newsroom. You know, one of the things
Speaker 1: I'm proud of stuff and I know you are too,
Speaker 1: in the style of journalism you do, is that you
Speaker 1: really work on treating the audience as intelligent decision makers,
Speaker 1: with an idea that if you give them enough information,
Speaker 1: hopefully all the information, they'll make good decisions. And you
Speaker 1: seem to avoid the temptation to somehow get people's blood
Speaker 1: pressure up in hopes of getting them more engaged quote
Speaker 1: unquote round engaged. How tough has that been in a
Speaker 1: world in which you know that's turning out probably would
Speaker 1: be more than norm than not. It's certainly a challenge,
Speaker 1: but it was really important to us from day one.
Speaker 1: We looked at why someone else hadn't done this before,
Speaker 1: quite honestly, and and the reality is that so many
Speaker 1: of the gimmicks and the tactics that that a lot
Speaker 1: of news organizations have resorted to over the years is
Speaker 1: exactly why a lot of people had turned away from
Speaker 1: news and we're beginning to believe the fake news and
Speaker 1: narrative because it was really hard for them to know
Speaker 1: what to trust and what not to trust, who to
Speaker 1: trust and who not to And we wanted to make
Speaker 1: sure that from day one we were building a product
Speaker 1: that was unbiased. And also we have to keep in
Speaker 1: mind that the black community is not monolithic and that
Speaker 1: there are people with wide ranging views and opinions within
Speaker 1: the black community, and for us to have any amount
Speaker 1: of credibility, we need to make sure that we have
Speaker 1: that balance in the reporting that we provide. And I
Speaker 1: think for a lot of our reporters that was something
Speaker 1: that they hadn't experienced in other newsrooms, and the question
Speaker 1: of what angle do you want me to take with this?
Speaker 1: What opinion should I have on this was a refreshing
Speaker 1: conversation when we said, just tell the truth, present the facts,
Speaker 1: and it gave them the opportunity to start bringing new
Speaker 1: ideas and new stories to the network because they suddenly
Speaker 1: realized they could report on what is interesting to the
Speaker 1: black community, not what a focus group says their opinion
Speaker 1: of a story should be. You know, as you and
Speaker 1: I talked early on in development of Black Information Network,
Speaker 1: one of the challenges of doing any news product today
Speaker 1: that's advertiser supported is that if you're advertising supported, ratings matter,
Speaker 1: and the best way to get ratings is to get
Speaker 1: people worked up. Because the normal cycle of news is
Speaker 1: that when there's a really big story, you get a
Speaker 1: lot of listeners, and when there's really nothing going on,
Speaker 1: you don't get so many listeners. It is peaks and valleys,
Speaker 1: and a lot of news organizations want to fill those
Speaker 1: valleys understandably, and we went with a new model of
Speaker 1: founding partners versus advertisers, in which we went to a
Speaker 1: group of companies and said, here's this mission to create
Speaker 1: this important service for the black community. But we need
Speaker 1: to free them from the need to chase ratings and
Speaker 1: we want them to be able to do what they
Speaker 1: do best, which is really focused on informing the community
Speaker 1: and creating a trusted news source. Very important, and by
Speaker 1: the way, let me give them a shout out, because
Speaker 1: I think these are incredibly important companies that stepped up
Speaker 1: to say, yes, we believe in this mission. We're gonna
Speaker 1: be there as a founding partner Bank of the Aurica,
Speaker 1: A Rise in CBS, Lows Tree and Me, McDonald's, Geico
Speaker 1: and Sony so b I n As in service to
Speaker 1: the Black community. What impact are you having and and
Speaker 1: can you give us a couple of stories? Absolutely. One
Speaker 1: of the things that's really important to us is that
Speaker 1: we're not only reporting on the headlines, but we're having
Speaker 1: an impact and a positive impact on the black community.
Speaker 1: And I think of so many of the stories that
Speaker 1: our reporters have brought to us. Vanessa Tyler came to
Speaker 1: us with an idea of doing a special that was
Speaker 1: completely about the missing black women all across America that
Speaker 1: weren't getting attention, and she highlighted those and we've now
Speaker 1: incorporated much of that content on an ongoing basis, I
Speaker 1: think about what we're doing right now in our effort
Speaker 1: to help one hundred thousand black listeners either up skill
Speaker 1: into new careers, fine new careers, or completely change their
Speaker 1: perspective on work. The partnership that we're doing with career
Speaker 1: building right now that's focused on getting Black Americans into
Speaker 1: more powerful positions and better opportunities. Those are just two
Speaker 1: things that come to mind. But we've done so many
Speaker 1: things to have a positive outcome for our community. Tony,
Speaker 1: I think all of us who are not part of
Speaker 1: the black community would benefit from hearing stories that are
Speaker 1: a part of the Black families narratives. You have a
Speaker 1: very powerful family narrative going back to your great grandfather.
Speaker 1: Would you mind sharing that with us? Sure? I have
Speaker 1: to start with the fact that you know, when you
Speaker 1: think of some of the things that have happened in
Speaker 1: related to social justice over the past few years, there's
Speaker 1: this movement, there's this energy around the history of black
Speaker 1: people in America, and I think what a law out
Speaker 1: of people lose sight of is It wasn't that long
Speaker 1: ago that people who are escaping slavery and the long
Speaker 1: term impact that slavery has had when I think back
Speaker 1: to my own family, and you know, my great grandfather
Speaker 1: being one of the last slaves in America, my grandfather
Speaker 1: being one of the first people in my family who
Speaker 1: was able to read and to to learn to read legally,
Speaker 1: and my father being the first person in our family
Speaker 1: to actually go to school, and then my sister and
Speaker 1: I being the first people in our family to be
Speaker 1: able to graduate high school and go to college, just
Speaker 1: a few generations from slavery is something that I think
Speaker 1: about quite often. Let's stay on your background. You grew
Speaker 1: up in a small Ohio town. I think the population
Speaker 1: was five people, very small. Your dad was an oil driller,
Speaker 1: your mom worked on the family's farm. You were in
Speaker 1: four age, you were active on the school newspaper. Paint
Speaker 1: a picture for us of growing up in the seventies
Speaker 1: and eighties and that really small town, obviously rural environment.
Speaker 1: I don't want to make it sound too Norman Rockwell,
Speaker 1: but in many ways it really was. It was just
Speaker 1: a wonderful experience for me growing up in a small town. Obviously,
Speaker 1: we were the only black family in our town, so
Speaker 1: that presented some some unique situations. But but more than anything.
Speaker 1: It was such a learning experience. You learn the value
Speaker 1: of hard work. Your view of the world is different
Speaker 1: when you grow up around five hundred people. Every family
Speaker 1: knows every other family. There's a genuine concern for your neighbors,
Speaker 1: and especially in the farming communities, because anything that impacts
Speaker 1: one farm impacts another, and so you have a lot
Speaker 1: of shared experience is no matter how different you are.
Speaker 1: You know, most people listening probably don't even know what
Speaker 1: four H is. I grew up Mississippi. I do tell
Speaker 1: us about four h and what impact that had on you.
Speaker 1: Four h was absolutely pivotal for me and impactful. Uh
Speaker 1: and and if you're not familiar with it, I often
Speaker 1: refer to it as the farming version of Boy Scouts
Speaker 1: or Girl Scouts. You have youth that come together starting
Speaker 1: at the age of eight, and every year you can
Speaker 1: pick one project, or you can pick multiple projects, and
Speaker 1: it can run anything from you know, for me, it
Speaker 1: was raising animals to forestry to public speaking and uh
Speaker 1: and throughout the year, you have these projects that you
Speaker 1: work on and then at the annual county Fair you
Speaker 1: present your final projects uh and and you know, you
Speaker 1: compete for awards, and there was always an impact to
Speaker 1: your community. That was a focal point of so many
Speaker 1: of the projects that we all worked on. So, uh,
Speaker 1: it helps you grow and develop and it helps your
Speaker 1: community be a better place. At the same time, you
Speaker 1: thought you were going to be a park ranger or
Speaker 1: a Methodist minister. I read, by the way, my dad
Speaker 1: was a Methodist minister. So I'm really interested in why
Speaker 1: did you think those were going to be your career opportunities? Well,
Speaker 1: because park rangers and ministers are so closely related to
Speaker 1: one another. Uh. You know, we were a very religious household.
Speaker 1: We were very active in our church. Um, we were
Speaker 1: in the church on on an ongoing basis, and you know,
Speaker 1: it was something that that really spoke to me. I
Speaker 1: enjoyed everything in the church. Uh, And so that was
Speaker 1: that was something that intrigued me. And and actually one
Speaker 1: of my best friends from childhood today is a Methodist minister.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, through four h uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I was a summer camp counselor. Before that, I was,
Speaker 1: you know, a summer camper. You know, we did a
Speaker 1: lot out of work around forestry. One of one of
Speaker 1: the summers I planted four hundred trees in in a
Speaker 1: vacant lot and uh, and so spending that much time
Speaker 1: outdoors in nature and and you know, working in the
Speaker 1: parks as a part of four age, it was something
Speaker 1: that I enjoyed tremendously and uh. And so those two
Speaker 1: fields were highly intriguing to me until the concept of
Speaker 1: radio was introduced to my life. So let's let's make
Speaker 1: the connection here now with the radio. You have a
Speaker 1: great story about how your dad pushed you into your
Speaker 1: first job, and I really had a way of thinking
Speaker 1: about when you went to work. Can you tell us
Speaker 1: that story? Sure? So. So, my father grew up during
Speaker 1: the Great Depression as part of a very big family.
Speaker 1: His father had a rule in place in their house
Speaker 1: that anyone that was in the house by age twelve
Speaker 1: needed to be paying rent or or get out. They
Speaker 1: just couldn't afford to feed all those mouths. And so
Speaker 1: my dad, from my earliest memories, told me that I
Speaker 1: was going to get a reprieve until I was sixteen,
Speaker 1: but I had to either get a job when I
Speaker 1: was sixteen or leave home. And uh, and I, you know,
Speaker 1: like most kids, never really thought much about it until
Speaker 1: one day I came home from school and there were
Speaker 1: boxes in my room, and when I asked my dad
Speaker 1: about it, he said, well, you're almost sixteen and I
Speaker 1: don't see you looking for work, so I want to
Speaker 1: at least help you pack your stuff so you can
Speaker 1: get out. Now, to this day, I don't think that
Speaker 1: my dad would have kicked me out, but as a
Speaker 1: fifteen year old, I wasn't ready to find out. Uh.
Speaker 1: And so I very quickly started looking for for work
Speaker 1: anywhere I could. And about a week after this, uh,
Speaker 1: this moment, the program director for w h I Z
Speaker 1: came to speak at our school career day and I
Speaker 1: was fascinated by what he did, but I was more
Speaker 1: terrified than if I didn't get a job, I was
Speaker 1: going to be homeless. So I walked up to him
Speaker 1: and said, I need a job. Do you have any jobs?
Speaker 1: And Uh, Luckily for me, they had an opening for
Speaker 1: a you know I CA I call it a gopher
Speaker 1: at the time. We're literally anything that you needed in
Speaker 1: the radio station. They needed somebody to help with and
Speaker 1: I was that kid. And so I took a job
Speaker 1: after school working at the local radio station. And uh.
Speaker 1: And had it not been for my dad's strong encouragement
Speaker 1: to find a job, I may not have found my
Speaker 1: way into that radio station. So looking back, how do
Speaker 1: you think your parents shaped who you are today? I
Speaker 1: tell people all the time that I owe everything to
Speaker 1: both of them. Uh. You know, obviously my my father
Speaker 1: for not only the work ethic that I learned from
Speaker 1: him by watching him over the years, but by him
Speaker 1: pushing me to get a job. You know, I'm very
Speaker 1: thankful that the stars aligned for that. And then my mom.
Speaker 1: She is the one who recognized how shy I was,
Speaker 1: and and I mean painfully shy and uh, and she
Speaker 1: is the one who prompted and pushed and prodded me
Speaker 1: into learning the importance of public speaking, learning the importance
Speaker 1: of of interacting with with other kids, because I was
Speaker 1: that kid that you know, if I could have sat
Speaker 1: in the woods or read my Bible, That's what I
Speaker 1: was going to do. But she's the one that said,
Speaker 1: you have to break out of this mold. And so
Speaker 1: between the two of them, I owe everything to them.
Speaker 1: More on math and magic right after this quick break,
Speaker 1: Welcome back to math and Magic. Let's hear more from
Speaker 1: my conversation with Tony Coles. Let's go back to your
Speaker 1: radio career. Everyone I know on the radio has some
Speaker 1: twist of fate that land at them that first on
Speaker 1: air job. You've got one to what's your story? So
Speaker 1: Pie Patoniac, who was the program director at that radio station,
Speaker 1: called my house one one Saturday morning. And this was
Speaker 1: back during the days where stations signed off at midnight.
Speaker 1: They signed on at six am. And he was in
Speaker 1: the hospital with appendicitis attack and was frantically searching for
Speaker 1: anyone to go in and sign on the station and
Speaker 1: do the morning show, which he normally did. And uh,
Speaker 1: I was the last person that he called and the
Speaker 1: first person who answered the phone. And you know, I
Speaker 1: had no clue what I was doing. I you know,
Speaker 1: I was the the errand kid at the time. And
Speaker 1: he's like, I just need you to go in, and
Speaker 1: I don't care what you do, but play the legal
Speaker 1: I d and play the commercials and just cover until
Speaker 1: someone can get there. And I went in and proceeded
Speaker 1: to have what I am sure to this day is
Speaker 1: the worst airshift in the history of radio. But I
Speaker 1: was mortified. I assumed that that was the end of
Speaker 1: my job and I was going to be homeless at
Speaker 1: that point. But what shocked me was the general manager
Speaker 1: and owner of the radio station called a few days
Speaker 1: later and said, hey, you know, we want to teach
Speaker 1: you how to be a DJ. And I said, you
Speaker 1: clearly didn't hear what happened, and he said, no, we heard,
Speaker 1: and it was bad. But what we could tell was
Speaker 1: you were really trying and we think that if you
Speaker 1: can try that hard, if we show you what to
Speaker 1: actually do, you could be good at this. And um,
Speaker 1: you know again, I think back to the mentors in
Speaker 1: my life and I look at that moment. There was
Speaker 1: absolutely no reason, uh that they needed to take that
Speaker 1: leap of faith, But they saw something in me that
Speaker 1: I didn't see it myself, uh, and they trained me.
Speaker 1: And before you knew it, I was sitting in that
Speaker 1: studio and I actually realized that people did that for
Speaker 1: a living. And that was the moment where I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't want to do anything else but being a
Speaker 1: radio station. You know, you had some really good jobs
Speaker 1: on the air. You moved around market to market, grew
Speaker 1: in bigger markets. But how did you move from being
Speaker 1: on air talent behind the saint in programming a radio station?
Speaker 1: So I was on in Columbus, Ohio. I was on
Speaker 1: a top forty station that was competing with what is
Speaker 1: now one of the I heart stations in w n
Speaker 1: c I, the station that I listened to growing up
Speaker 1: and idolizing. And I was across the street competing and
Speaker 1: new manager came in who hired a new program director
Speaker 1: who fired everybody on the air and was going to
Speaker 1: bring in their own staff. And I remember so many
Speaker 1: things about that moment because it was the biggest market
Speaker 1: i'd worked in at the time. I loved the job,
Speaker 1: I love the people that I worked with. But what
Speaker 1: struck me more than anything was the program director at
Speaker 1: w n c I, a guy named Dave Robbins. He
Speaker 1: was our mortal enemy. We hated him. He was just
Speaker 1: a fierce competitor. But within twenty four hours of our
Speaker 1: air staff being fired, Dave had called every single person
Speaker 1: at home. We had no idea how he even got
Speaker 1: our numbers, but he called every single person and he said, Hey,
Speaker 1: I've been in your shoes. Come over to our station.
Speaker 1: You know, make your demo tapes. If you need to
Speaker 1: make phone calls, you can use our phones. Whatever you
Speaker 1: need to find a job, come see us. And so
Speaker 1: I took him up on the offer. But the thing
Speaker 1: that struck me the most was within the first few minutes.
Speaker 1: I saw the way that Dave was interacting with his
Speaker 1: air staff, I saw the way that he was interacting
Speaker 1: with the people in the building, and more than anything,
Speaker 1: I saw the passion that he had for what he did.
Speaker 1: And in that moment, I just I walked up to
Speaker 1: him and I said, I know I came over here
Speaker 1: to make demo tapes, but I actually think I want
Speaker 1: to do what you do. And he was so passionate
Speaker 1: about being a manager and being a leader that he
Speaker 1: sat down with me for two hours and told me
Speaker 1: everything about why he loved his job, and from that
Speaker 1: moment on, I wanted to do that. You continued to
Speaker 1: rise in the programming ranks. You had a lot of successes.
Speaker 1: He eventually became one of our company's executive vice presidents
Speaker 1: of programming, covering the radio stations the markets in the
Speaker 1: west part of the country. And then you had the
Speaker 1: opportunity to go to the business side, from what I
Speaker 1: think all of us in programming would say is the
Speaker 1: creative side, and be a division president overseeing a P
Speaker 1: and L of one of the company's divisions about four
Speaker 1: million revenue twenty one markets across America. Why was that
Speaker 1: of interest to you. One of the things that I
Speaker 1: loved the most and enjoyed the most on the programming
Speaker 1: side was seeing the impact that the programming leads have
Speaker 1: on people and the things that you can accomplish, and
Speaker 1: more than anything, the innovation that can happen. But what
Speaker 1: I noticed was the division presidents and other positions in
Speaker 1: the leadership team had far more impact because you weren't
Speaker 1: isolated to just one area of a radio station or
Speaker 1: one area of the company. And the more time that
Speaker 1: I spent talking to division presidents and other leaders I
Speaker 1: noticed that exact same excitement and passion that Dave Robbins had.
Speaker 1: And so to me, moving from the creative side to
Speaker 1: the business side, obviously there are some differences, but more
Speaker 1: than anything, it's an opportunity to have a greater impact,
Speaker 1: and I'm so excited that I made the leap. What
Speaker 1: surprised most about moving from the creative side to the
Speaker 1: business side, I would say that, Uh, one of the
Speaker 1: surprises was that so many of the challenges that we
Speaker 1: faced on the programming side happened in all other parts
Speaker 1: of the company. And while it may be off the air,
Speaker 1: you're still dealing with personalities, You're still dealing with the
Speaker 1: need to come up with ideas. And as I started
Speaker 1: interacting with more clients and meeting with more clients, that
Speaker 1: was both the surprising and the refreshing thing that I
Speaker 1: realized in that on the air, you're trying to sell
Speaker 1: people your radio station. You're trying to sell them on
Speaker 1: a new artist or a new song. And for our clients, uh,
Speaker 1: they're trying to sell new ideas and new products. But
Speaker 1: the thought process that goes into the creative work that
Speaker 1: we do on the programming side is exactly what you
Speaker 1: need when you're trying to help clients market their businesses.
Speaker 1: Let's go back to Black Information Network. Before the pandemic.
Speaker 1: We as a company, we're looking for new products. You
Speaker 1: took on an additional role of leading the effort with
Speaker 1: a with a few of our other really talented senior
Speaker 1: executives in the company to develop a new kind of
Speaker 1: news service when we were talking about which became Black
Speaker 1: Information Network, and we led up to the pandemic with
Speaker 1: this on the development cycle. Thanks for looking good. Pandemic hits.
Speaker 1: As you remember, everyone remembers revenue advertising revenue goes down.
Speaker 1: Every company responds by reducing cost. We put every development
Speaker 1: product on the hold, and then we have the George
Speaker 1: Floyd murder. You call me and you say, Bob, I
Speaker 1: know we don't have any extra money. I know we
Speaker 1: put everything on hold. We need to do this and
Speaker 1: we need to do it right now. Can you tell
Speaker 1: that story and how you got this on the air
Speaker 1: in a matter of weeks, not months. We started the
Speaker 1: development of this network long before the launch, and I
Speaker 1: think had we not had so many creative minds in
Speaker 1: place and so many people thinking about this and thinking
Speaker 1: about the possibilities, that we would not have been able
Speaker 1: to launch as quickly as we did. You know, as
Speaker 1: you mentioned, even during the pandemic, the people that we
Speaker 1: had already been interviewing and talking to before we had
Speaker 1: to pause on the project, we're calling me and saying, hey,
Speaker 1: are you seeing the disproportionate impact that COVID is having
Speaker 1: on the black community for mortality, to hospitalizations, to the
Speaker 1: economic impact. And even though none of them had active
Speaker 1: jobs at the moment, they were already thinking about this
Speaker 1: network and thinking about the kind of content that we
Speaker 1: could provide and the impact that we could have. So
Speaker 1: when we when we had that conversation. I will never
Speaker 1: forget that Saturday us being on the phone. We knew
Speaker 1: that there was a need for this network before. We
Speaker 1: have a responsibility to put this network on now and
Speaker 1: just calling people all over the country saying we're going
Speaker 1: to do this. We're going to do this now. What
Speaker 1: have you been working on and how quickly can we
Speaker 1: assemble this? And what surprised me as conversation after conversation
Speaker 1: they hadn't stopped working on this network. They hadn't stopped
Speaker 1: thinking about this network. And that's how we were able
Speaker 1: to hit the ground running because so many people were
Speaker 1: already emotionally invested in bringing this to life. They just
Speaker 1: needed the okay to do it. And you had a
Speaker 1: lot of allies internally and a lot of folks helping you.
Speaker 1: You know, have to mention Doc Winter and Theamtum we
Speaker 1: were actively involved in enormous proponents of this as well,
Speaker 1: who on the outside really embraced this right away and
Speaker 1: said yeah, there for you. We were blessed with so
Speaker 1: many allies outside the company. I mean, first and foremost,
Speaker 1: I have to start with our founding partners, but not
Speaker 1: just the founding partners, but their entire teams really embraced
Speaker 1: our team and embraced the work that we were doing. Then,
Speaker 1: I think of all of the organizations and the people.
Speaker 1: You know, one thing that a lot of people don't
Speaker 1: know is we have a board of advisors that help
Speaker 1: us with not only our content but just our our
Speaker 1: great sounding boards. And we have everyone from Mayor Control,
Speaker 1: the mayor of New Orleans, to artist Stevens, the first
Speaker 1: black CEO for Big Brothers Big Sisters, the civic support
Speaker 1: that we had, the clients that were involved, and then
Speaker 1: just other other journalists, other industry people who saw the
Speaker 1: vision that we had and were supportive of that, whether
Speaker 1: it was giving their time, giving their insights, or just
Speaker 1: giving their support to our team. I also have to
Speaker 1: give a shout out to Chris Berry, who oversees the
Speaker 1: news operations for iHeart Media in general. He from day
Speaker 1: one was not only our biggest fan, but but a
Speaker 1: great counselor as well. So today you're running one of
Speaker 1: our big divisions, also running the Black Information Network. Let's
Speaker 1: tag into your management insights. You've been a big proponent
Speaker 1: and you mentioned it already a few times of mentoring
Speaker 1: why and what's the power of it? Well, it starts
Speaker 1: first and foremost with with the journey that I've been on.
Speaker 1: I know for a fact that I would not be
Speaker 1: here today if it wasn't for a powerful group of
Speaker 1: mentors in my own life. And what I realized very
Speaker 1: early on is there is a difference between people who
Speaker 1: support you and people who will be not only your
Speaker 1: champion but your biggest critic and give you perspective and
Speaker 1: give you honest feedback. And I think that that's the
Speaker 1: difference between having friends in the industry and having mentors.
Speaker 1: But what has struck me throughout the years is every
Speaker 1: time I attempt to thank them in any way to
Speaker 1: a tie, every mentor has said, I'm not doing this
Speaker 1: for thanks. I'm doing this because I believe in you
Speaker 1: and I want you to grow and succeed. And the
Speaker 1: only way that you could ever repay me is to
Speaker 1: do this for someone else. And over time, as I've
Speaker 1: started mentoring other people both inside and outside the business,
Speaker 1: I now understand what those mentors meant because I realize
Speaker 1: that quite often, even though I'm mentoring someone else, I'm
Speaker 1: learning in the process and I'm becoming a stronger person
Speaker 1: because of that relationship. How does corporate culture and your
Speaker 1: corporate values impact your business mission. It's the foundation for
Speaker 1: for everything that we do. And I remember when when
Speaker 1: you joined I Heart Media and you started talking about
Speaker 1: our core values and our corporate values and uh in
Speaker 1: the very first meeting that they attended, and you had
Speaker 1: them up on these these big boards all over the room. UH,
Speaker 1: and it was what you and Rich stand for. It's
Speaker 1: what the company was going to stand for. And it
Speaker 1: became the north star for the company and for me,
Speaker 1: who had worked for a number of great organizations over
Speaker 1: the years, it was the first time that I'd ever
Speaker 1: seen any organization have that proclamation and make it such
Speaker 1: a steady and consistent part of everything that we do.
Speaker 1: And it has absolutely been I think one of the
Speaker 1: greatest things that you and Rich of have brought to
Speaker 1: iHeart Media. Talk about how you and your team think
Speaker 1: about the responsibilities of journalists to the communities they serve.
Speaker 1: It has been fascinating to watch and to learn from
Speaker 1: the team the stories that they cover, but more importantly,
Speaker 1: what those stories represent and the people that they represent.
Speaker 1: And radio in general has always been the original storyteller.
Speaker 1: It's been a fantastic vehicle for sharing the impact that
Speaker 1: the world is having on people, and people are having
Speaker 1: on the world. But watching the team at the Black
Speaker 1: Information Network look at not only what is the story
Speaker 1: that they're telling, but what does it represent. It can
Speaker 1: be anyone from the young girl who won the national
Speaker 1: spelling be to a senior citizen to you know, someone
Speaker 1: with the latest invention. It not only represents what they're
Speaker 1: bringing to the world, but the hope that they bring
Speaker 1: to the Black community, the impact that they have on
Speaker 1: others within the community. And I think that's one of
Speaker 1: the things that we hear back most often about the
Speaker 1: network is we're not just reporting on the latest tragedy,
Speaker 1: we're reporting on the latest triumph as well. COVID changed
Speaker 1: how we all operate businesses. You launch the Black Information
Speaker 1: Network during COVID. How did that affect I mean being
Speaker 1: in this virtual world, How did that affect how you
Speaker 1: build the operation and the organization? And by the way,
Speaker 1: what's a lasting problem with it or what's a lasting
Speaker 1: benefit coming from that world. Our vision was to build
Speaker 1: out this giant news hub in Atlanta and that would
Speaker 1: be the source of all things. B I N and
Speaker 1: COVID changed everything. We up until that point never would
Speaker 1: have imagined a work from home scenario or work from
Speaker 1: anywhere scenario. And while I hate to say anything great
Speaker 1: came from COVID, one thing that did change the trajectory
Speaker 1: of this network was the sudden realization that we didn't
Speaker 1: have to have a group of people all sitting in
Speaker 1: the same room in Atlanta to make this network a reality.
Speaker 1: And the benefit of that has been we now have
Speaker 1: journalists and reporters everywhere from New York City to Huntsville, Alabama.
Speaker 1: And it's not just about the range of places where
Speaker 1: we have studios and we have reporters, it's the perspectives
Speaker 1: that they bring. Um you know, are reporting on black
Speaker 1: farmers may not have happened or may not have sounded
Speaker 1: the way that it does. If we didn't have black
Speaker 1: reporters in rural communities, and had we stuck to that
Speaker 1: original vision of a team in Atlanta, the network would
Speaker 1: most likely sound very different than it is. And I
Speaker 1: don't see us ever going back to one centralized newsroom again.
Speaker 1: The advantages that we see now of having correspondence throughout
Speaker 1: the country. We just have a much more robust pipeline
Speaker 1: of stories and content because they're actually living in all
Speaker 1: of the communities that were reporting on. Let's spendish up
Speaker 1: on you if you could. What advice would you give
Speaker 1: your twenty one year old self. It's an interesting question
Speaker 1: and timely for me because you know, I've got a
Speaker 1: son that's getting ready to leave the house and UH,
Speaker 1: and much to his chagrin, I've been torturing him daily
Speaker 1: with all of the things that I want to make
Speaker 1: sure he knows before he goes out into the world.
Speaker 1: You didn't, and so is in his room. Did you? Oh?
Speaker 1: I was tempted to. I was very tempted to, but
Speaker 1: I gave him a reprieve. But but during this process,
Speaker 1: so much of what I'm telling him, I'm thinking back to,
Speaker 1: UH to you know, my own childhood and my own
Speaker 1: adventure into the world. And something that I read recently
Speaker 1: that has really stood out to me was understand the
Speaker 1: importance and the value of compounding. And when I was
Speaker 1: reading it, it was talking about obviously compounding interest and
Speaker 1: how you can build lifelong wealth if you're diligent early on,
Speaker 1: and so I've shared that with him. But what I
Speaker 1: think is more important is the compounding of everything in life,
Speaker 1: investing not only financially, but investing in people, investing in
Speaker 1: yourself investing in relationships early on. For me, I look
Speaker 1: back and I didn't do that. I certainly didn't do
Speaker 1: that financially, but also I was so focused on hopping
Speaker 1: from market to market, UH that while I had friendships
Speaker 1: in a lot of these towns, UM, I always viewed
Speaker 1: it as well, they're my friend from New York, they're
Speaker 1: my friend from Columbus, they're my friend from here, UM
Speaker 1: and I and I wish that I would have taken
Speaker 1: more of those friendships and relationships over time with me
Speaker 1: UH to a much deeper level. So I think that
Speaker 1: the the value of compounding everything in your life from
Speaker 1: early on UH will give you a much richer life,
Speaker 1: both financially and personally. Tony, we always and math and
Speaker 1: magic with a shout out to the analytics person we
Speaker 1: most admire the math side of things and to the
Speaker 1: most creative person the magic side to business. So you
Speaker 1: have to pick two people analytics, creative, math and magic.
Speaker 1: Who are they so for for the math side, um,
Speaker 1: it's it's a recent entrant into my life. UM. There's
Speaker 1: a man named Rashad Tobacca Wala that a lot of
Speaker 1: people in marketing and advertising, though um, he's an advisor,
Speaker 1: works with publicists and a number of Fortune five hundred
Speaker 1: companies and and I was fortunate enough to get introduced
Speaker 1: to him during the pandemic. And one thing that stood
Speaker 1: out to me was his ability to take data, to
Speaker 1: take research, to take all of the math side of
Speaker 1: business and marketing and advertising and humanize it. And I
Speaker 1: think that that's what he does best, is humanized data
Speaker 1: and trends. And I think that that in and of
Speaker 1: itself is an art form to be able to turn
Speaker 1: numbers into stories. On the magic side, something that has
Speaker 1: fascinated me is the work that Procter and Gamble does
Speaker 1: when it comes to the multicultural space. And even though
Speaker 1: that's a CpG company, what has impressed me has been
Speaker 1: their ability to lean into powerful creative to tell stories
Speaker 1: uh and particularly about women and minorities uh and and
Speaker 1: to start conversations. And I think that that is one
Speaker 1: of the most creative responsibilities that I've seen any company.
Speaker 1: Do you know what, You're the first one to give
Speaker 1: the magic shout out to a company and uh and
Speaker 1: I agree with you on pent Tony, You've got an
Speaker 1: inspiring story filled with useful insights for others. Your commitment
Speaker 1: to mentoring and helping others is definitely your hallmark. I
Speaker 1: want to give a shout out before we leave, of course,
Speaker 1: to Black Information Network. So if you don't have the
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, get it. If you have the
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, open it up and find the
Speaker 1: Black Information Network. You can listen to the national version
Speaker 1: which covers the country, or you can go to individual
Speaker 1: versions for specific cities, which will have local news, trafficking
Speaker 1: weather for those cities added in as well. I actually
Speaker 1: find it's my news source of choice because the news
Speaker 1: is so balanced and so comprehensive, a really fantastic product
Speaker 1: and obviously one of the reasons I'm so happy to
Speaker 1: have you on today. Thanks for your contributions to our
Speaker 1: company and UH and thanks for your contributions to our communities,
Speaker 1: and congrats and all you've accomplished. Thank you both. I
Speaker 1: appreciate it. There are a few things I've picked up
Speaker 1: in my conversation with Tony. One, good journalism doesn't hinge
Speaker 1: on getting people's blood pressure up, Tony Steam doesn't chase clickbait. Instead,
Speaker 1: they focus on the stories that matter to know the
Speaker 1: power of compounding. As Tony told his son, if you
Speaker 1: start investing early, and that's investing financially and in your
Speaker 1: personal relationships. You can enrich your life in every sense
Speaker 1: of the word. Three, don't let your vision be siloed.
Speaker 1: We didn't plan on launching the Black Information Network during
Speaker 1: the pandemic, but Tony kept his eye on current events
Speaker 1: to ensure he would launch the network when society needed
Speaker 1: it the most. I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening. That's
Speaker 1: it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening to
Speaker 1: Math and Magic, a production of I Heart Radio. The
Speaker 1: show is hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Susan
Speaker 1: Ward for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which is
Speaker 1: no small feat Marissa Brown for pulling research, our editors
Speaker 1: Derek Clements, Mary Dow and Ryan Murdoch, our producer Morgan Levoy,
Speaker 1: our executive producer Nikki Eator, and of course Gayle Rahul,
Speaker 1: Eric Angel Noel and everyone who helped bring this show
Speaker 1: to your ears. Until next time,