Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: My mom is of German descent and my dad is Mexican.
Speaker 1: His real dad's name was Gonzales. He was adopted by
Speaker 1: a man named Pritchard, which is uh, an English name.
Speaker 1: I my whole life have presented as white. I recognized
Speaker 1: that there's privilege associated with that. I'm not sure I
Speaker 1: would have made it to this role given the prejudice
Speaker 1: and biases around realizing the privilege of this position, the
Speaker 1: opportunity to make a difference right some of the wrongs
Speaker 1: and affect bias by what we do on advertising. I
Speaker 1: came out as a Mexican. It was emotional, but it
Speaker 1: was important because they created emotional safety for other people
Speaker 1: who do the same. Hi am Bob Pittman. Welcome to
Speaker 1: Math and Magic Stories from the Frontiers and Marketing. Normally
Speaker 1: we have chats in a small studio with just me
Speaker 1: and a guest. Today we are doing this episode in
Speaker 1: Cincinnati at Procter and Gamble in front of a live audience,
Speaker 1: So all of you welcome to Math and Magic and
Speaker 1: I Heart Podcasting. We usually have a guest with a
Speaker 1: strength in either math or magic. Sometimes we have someone
Speaker 1: who is ambidextrous and has both. But today we're exploring
Speaker 1: leadership driven by insights, curiosity, empathy, and courage. Our guest
Speaker 1: on this episode is someone who is well known and
Speaker 1: much respected as a role model in marketing corporate management.
Speaker 1: In addition to exhibiting those characteristics of the strong leaders,
Speaker 1: he also has a platform that can magnify the impact
Speaker 1: and make a lasting difference. Mark Pritchard, Chief rand Officer
Speaker 1: of Procter and Gamble. Mark is a gifted and innovative
Speaker 1: marketer whose actions have not only redefined marketing, but his
Speaker 1: actions in leadership have led to major changes in his company,
Speaker 1: in the media industry and in society in general and diversity,
Speaker 1: concepts of women's beauty, transparency, and new models of purpose
Speaker 1: driven marketing. And this has not only been good for society,
Speaker 1: it's been good for business. Procter and Gamble has been
Speaker 1: delivering records setting financial performance for at least the last
Speaker 1: year and a half. Mark has led a life of humility,
Speaker 1: fairness and leadership without the paralysis of fearing mistakes. He
Speaker 1: plays it right. Not safe. Welcome Mark, happy to be here, Bob,
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me Mark. I want to dig into
Speaker 1: all the meaty stuff. But first I'd like for us
Speaker 1: to do you in sixty seconds. You ready, I'm ready.
Speaker 1: Do you prefer beetles or stones? Stones, Cincinnati or Bloomington's
Speaker 1: Bloomington sunrise or sunset? Sunset? Basketball or gymnastics basketball? That's easy?
Speaker 1: Spring or fall? Uh? Fall? Call or text call? Catch
Speaker 1: up or mustard neither. It's about to get harder. Smartest
Speaker 1: person you know, my wife Betsy right answer by the way.
Speaker 1: Childhood hero you know who was it? Abraham Lincoln? First
Speaker 1: job I bust tables at mcl cafeteria. Favorite song I
Speaker 1: Only Have Eyes for You song at my wedding, My
Speaker 1: first dance with my wife. Oh, that's nice. Favorite city
Speaker 1: since Mattie. Last vacation, that's vacation. That's scary. This is
Speaker 1: part of the problem with working too hard. I went
Speaker 1: to Maine where my daughter got engaged. Secret talent I
Speaker 1: can sing pretty well. Favorite basketball team the guys I
Speaker 1: played with every Saturday morning. Favorite food tacos. What did
Speaker 1: you want to be when you were growing up? Rock star?
Speaker 1: And here you are. Let me begin with a question
Speaker 1: about our location. Does being located here in Cincinnati, in
Speaker 1: Ohio the middle of the country, keep you in the
Speaker 1: company better grounded in Middle America and the mass market.
Speaker 1: Is it an advantage. It's an advantage in some ways,
Speaker 1: the disadvantage in other ways. But I think what is
Speaker 1: more important is the people we hire. The people we
Speaker 1: hire are grounded in just really strong ethics and values.
Speaker 1: We have what we call our purpose values and principles.
Speaker 1: We hire people who have high integrity, trust, teamwork, ownership, leadership.
Speaker 1: My first day on the job, my boss said, we
Speaker 1: do the right thing at PNG. So it's less about
Speaker 1: where we're located. It's more about who we hire and
Speaker 1: who we bring in and who we build. You may
Speaker 1: know that this is one of the few companies that
Speaker 1: still most of the people grow from within. Do you
Speaker 1: feel like people walking the streets here get a different
Speaker 1: feeling of the heartland than people walking the streets in
Speaker 1: New York or l A or Silicon Valley and that
Speaker 1: gives them any marketing advantage. I think gives them a
Speaker 1: different context, and I think it gives them a different experience.
Speaker 1: I don't think it necessarily gives them a different marketing advantage.
Speaker 1: I think what's really important, Bob is extracting the creativity
Speaker 1: out of every individual, and that happens if you're in Cincinnati,
Speaker 1: in New York, in Geneva and Singapore and Guangzho, China.
Speaker 1: We got a brilliant marketing in all the places in
Speaker 1: which were located, every city, every country, because we've got
Speaker 1: great people who really get connected and do great things.
Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about the view
Speaker 1: of this company, and I want to go back in time,
Speaker 1: back to when you were GM of the Cover Girl
Speaker 1: business and you had an epiphany about the broader impact
Speaker 1: you could have on culture. It had an immediate effect
Speaker 1: on the Easy Breezy Beautiful ad campaign and very well
Speaker 1: known at that time. Can you tell us what led
Speaker 1: to that epiphany and how it changed you? What I
Speaker 1: was doing at the time as I was a general
Speaker 1: manager of our CoverGirl business, which is Baltimore. And then
Speaker 1: my white Betsy and our three daughters, who are all
Speaker 1: under the age of ten, went to a place called
Speaker 1: wind River Ranch up in the Colorado Rockies. It was
Speaker 1: a spiritual ranch, nondenominational spiritual ranch. Because I was born Catholic,
Speaker 1: my wife's Jewish. My dad was an alcoholics anonymous, so
Speaker 1: he had a higher power and he was also there
Speaker 1: with us. When we were there, the spiritual leader at
Speaker 1: the very end of it came up to me and said,
Speaker 1: you know, Mark, you really can make a big difference
Speaker 1: in the world because you're in business. The greatest force
Speaker 1: for good in the future is going to be business.
Speaker 1: It's not going to be clergy, it's not gonna be government.
Speaker 1: It's going to be business. If you choose to do so,
Speaker 1: you can do a lot of good. We had just
Speaker 1: introduced the Easy Breeze Beautiful Cover Gold campaign and I
Speaker 1: literally it was an epiphany where I thought, oh wow,
Speaker 1: the effect that we have on the standard of beauty
Speaker 1: is profound. We're essentially portraying what we view is the
Speaker 1: standard of beauty and unfortunate the time, the spokespeople we
Speaker 1: had were too young, too skinny, and too white. And
Speaker 1: I sat there and looked at my ten year old
Speaker 1: daughters and I said, you know, I have an oligation
Speaker 1: to do the right thing. And I knew then that
Speaker 1: we needed to make a change. We brought in Queen Latifa,
Speaker 1: we brought in all in Generous, Sophia Vergara, Pink, Janelle Monet.
Speaker 1: We became diverse. We moved to a standard of beauty
Speaker 1: that came from within as opposed to externally, and it
Speaker 1: was really a very profound moment because I realized how
Speaker 1: much impact advertising can have on people's perceptions. And that
Speaker 1: was really the start of what I hope we're doing
Speaker 1: now at that moment. What was the reaction internally from
Speaker 1: the consumers and from the ad industry. Well, at first,
Speaker 1: when I went back and talked to our agencies at
Speaker 1: the time, They're like, well, wait, wait a minute, no, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: that's not what women want to see. They don't want
Speaker 1: to see themselves if they want to see other people
Speaker 1: who are the quote better version of them selves. M
Speaker 1: I said, no, no, no, no no, no, no, we need
Speaker 1: to try. We can do something that's better. Thankfully, Alice Erickson,
Speaker 1: who was the creative director at the time, did a
Speaker 1: magnificent job, and she's the one who really, along with
Speaker 1: the other team, brought in Queen Latifa. That really is
Speaker 1: what transformed that campaign and that brand. What was the
Speaker 1: reaction internally when you came back with this epiphany, You know,
Speaker 1: internally people got it. They got it pretty quickly. They thought,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, this is something we can do, and
Speaker 1: we went for it. It really unlocked a lot of creativity.
Speaker 1: John Pepper was the first P and G CEO I
Speaker 1: ever spent time with. I was back in the nineties,
Speaker 1: and I must say when I met him, it was
Speaker 1: not what I expected. I was sort of expecting. I
Speaker 1: guess I don'tn't know what the cold, ruthless corporate killer. Instead,
Speaker 1: I found the man who was interested in doing good
Speaker 1: and interested in positive change in society. It was a
Speaker 1: strong business as a force to do good philosophy very
Speaker 1: much concurent with the story telling. Has that always been
Speaker 1: the case at P and G? Where did that come from?
Speaker 1: That came from the very beginning of this company. You
Speaker 1: can go right down these halls and you can see
Speaker 1: our archives. There's a picture of our founder's store, Procter
Speaker 1: and Gamble. And the first claim we made was pure
Speaker 1: goods at an honest weight. We sold candles, and so
Speaker 1: what distinguished the company was that we had purity and
Speaker 1: the products where some didn't, and we actually had an
Speaker 1: honest weight. We said, here's how much is in here,
Speaker 1: and that's exactly what we delivered. That's the foundation of
Speaker 1: this company and it's always been that way. I want
Speaker 1: to come back to the topic because I think it
Speaker 1: really does make this company very special. But I want
Speaker 1: to get a little context about you, and I want
Speaker 1: to go back to the young mark. You were born
Speaker 1: in Oakland, California, in the dawn of the sixties. You're Taurus,
Speaker 1: and if you believe astrology, you seem to fit the
Speaker 1: profile patients stepfast and radiate calm and fortitude, and I
Speaker 1: love this one and often associated with successful business people.
Speaker 1: Were you that way as a kid? I was pretty calm,
Speaker 1: low key, and my brother was not. He was a
Speaker 1: year younger and he was all over the place, and
Speaker 1: he used to joke about how he'd be all over
Speaker 1: the place and I'd be sitting there just focused on
Speaker 1: my truck and playing around and doing things. So I've
Speaker 1: always been that way. I'm actually quite introverted. I need
Speaker 1: my turtle time, so to speak, where I can go
Speaker 1: back into my little shell and just kind of hang
Speaker 1: out and get some energy. Where did you grow up. Well,
Speaker 1: started in Oakland, especially Filo, California, which is near that.
Speaker 1: Then it went to Denver for twelve years till fourteen,
Speaker 1: then went to Arkansas for two years, which was quite
Speaker 1: a shot where in Arkansas in North Little Rock, Arkansas.
Speaker 1: It was a very big, big change, going from really
Speaker 1: what was at the time, you know, hippie country, and
Speaker 1: I had long hair parted down the middle, often mistaken
Speaker 1: or a girl. But then um went to Arkansas, and
Speaker 1: then we moved to Elkhart, Indiana. My dad worked at
Speaker 1: Miles Laboratory, as he had a sales territory in Arkansas,
Speaker 1: and then we moved the home office up here, Indiana,
Speaker 1: and then went to Bloomington, which is where I went
Speaker 1: in the university, and then ended up here in Cincinnati.
Speaker 1: I know you've talked about your own family diversity as
Speaker 1: well as the world you grew up with. Can you
Speaker 1: share that? Yeah, my mom is of German descent and
Speaker 1: my dad is Mexican. His real dad's name was Gonzalez.
Speaker 1: He was adopted by a man named Pritchard, which is
Speaker 1: uh an English name. My parents got married, and my
Speaker 1: whole life have presented as white. I recognized that there's
Speaker 1: privilege associated with that I was lucky enough to be
Speaker 1: named Pritchard. My parents considered naming me Mick because they
Speaker 1: had a really good friend named Mick. I think often
Speaker 1: that I could have been Mickey Gonzalez, which I'm not
Speaker 1: sure I would have made it to this role given
Speaker 1: the prejudice and biases around, so you know, you recognized privilege.
Speaker 1: Probably the most profound moment was a few years ago.
Speaker 1: A couple of years ago, were actually admitted publicly that
Speaker 1: I was half Mexican, which I had never done in
Speaker 1: thirty five years. Consciously, you hadn't done it or just
Speaker 1: never gotten around. It was conscious because I was kind
Speaker 1: of you know, I grew up in the sixties. My
Speaker 1: dad was kind of an activist. He was very active
Speaker 1: in the Mexican community. We used to go up to
Speaker 1: this place called Wattenburg or called Latte, which was a
Speaker 1: place where there were migrant farm workers that were all Mexican,
Speaker 1: and he was very much into that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: So I kind of adopted that activism. So I was
Speaker 1: very much into Chicano activism. When I was in Colorado.
Speaker 1: I moved to Arkansas. Half the high school with black
Speaker 1: so I was very much into civil rights and those
Speaker 1: kinds of things. When I got to college, that was fine,
Speaker 1: But then when I got to work, I kind of
Speaker 1: suppressed my Mexican heritage because I learned about labels. When
Speaker 1: I would put an application where I would say race,
Speaker 1: you know, Caucasian, Hispanic, whatever said that would put if
Speaker 1: you put Caucasian, because it will affect how you're viewed.
Speaker 1: That always in there in the subconscious. So when I
Speaker 1: got to work and I suppressed it, and then when
Speaker 1: I started getting in this position, realizing the privilege of
Speaker 1: this position and the opportunity to make a difference and
Speaker 1: right some of the wrongs and affect biased by what
Speaker 1: we do on advertising, I came out as a Mexican.
Speaker 1: It was emotional, but it was important because they created
Speaker 1: emotional safety for other people to do the same. Well.
Speaker 1: It's a powerful story in the business and I think
Speaker 1: the impact you've had on people is well known. Did
Speaker 1: you feel like an outsider when you have a heritage
Speaker 1: or an identity being a half Mexican and seeing what
Speaker 1: happened to my dad, there's that little bit of feeling
Speaker 1: sometimes on the outside. Then moving having to break into
Speaker 1: a new group where I was the hippie yankee. Literally
Speaker 1: they called me the hippie yankee down in Arkansas, so
Speaker 1: I felt outside. Then then moved to Northern Indiana, where
Speaker 1: I was just also an outsider. Again, different type of culture.
Speaker 1: Ever where you go. Whenever I start someplace new, there's
Speaker 1: always that little bit of a feeling and look, I'm
Speaker 1: not the only person that feels that way, but what
Speaker 1: it does is allow me to have some empathy. Does
Speaker 1: that help you as a market or two and as
Speaker 1: a manager? I think in the way in which trying
Speaker 1: to just understand other people more effectively. In order to
Speaker 1: be able to engage and be part of something, you know,
Speaker 1: you need to understand other people so you can connect
Speaker 1: with them. You went to Indiana University in Bloomington's why
Speaker 1: they're because it was local? Yeah, because we could afford it.
Speaker 1: That's a good reason. Yeah. We lived in Elkhart, Indiana,
Speaker 1: which is right next to Outbend. And I said I
Speaker 1: wanted to go not to day. My dad said, no,
Speaker 1: no way, we can't afford that. You can go to Indiana.
Speaker 1: When you went to college, what did you expect to
Speaker 1: get from college? And looking back on it, what did
Speaker 1: you get from college? I just looked back at what
Speaker 1: I was like when I was eighteen years old and
Speaker 1: I went to college because my dad said you need
Speaker 1: to go to college. And I remember pretty clearly where.
Speaker 1: He said what do you want to major? And I
Speaker 1: said journalism? He said no, no, I don't think so,
Speaker 1: You're not going to make any money in journalism. I said, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: what do you think business? Okay, he was in marketing
Speaker 1: at the time. You know, I thought I'd go get
Speaker 1: a degree, I'd get a job and go from there.
Speaker 1: And what I got out of it is I learned
Speaker 1: how to learn. More than anything. I look back on
Speaker 1: it and learned how to learn, and that has carried
Speaker 1: me with me every day. I learned something new every
Speaker 1: single day, and I go at my job in that
Speaker 1: way as well. There is an ongoing debate about whether
Speaker 1: we pushed too many kids onto the college track. Where
Speaker 1: do you come out on that. Do you have a you, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it would be great if
Speaker 1: every kid could have some form of college education. That
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that people can't go into a technical track
Speaker 1: or a tradecraft or anything like that. Those are all
Speaker 1: wonderful approaches, But if anything, I think we need to
Speaker 1: make sure that we educate more many people as possible. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the things that's got to happen.
Speaker 1: Education is one of the areas that we spent a
Speaker 1: lot of time on ensuring that we get people educated,
Speaker 1: particularly women. Blacks, Latinos, and other cultures. That's important. So
Speaker 1: you join PNG right after college, and you showed your
Speaker 1: leadership skills early. As I understand that you had a
Speaker 1: dozen or so folks working for you when you were
Speaker 1: a very young man, many of whom were older than you.
Speaker 1: How did managing an older, more experienced workforce help shape
Speaker 1: your management style. I was twenty two years old, four
Speaker 1: months out of college, working at the Mahoopani plant, which
Speaker 1: is one of our biggest, if not our biggest plant,
Speaker 1: and I had a dozen people working for me. I
Speaker 1: was the planting accounty management. These were experts. These are
Speaker 1: people who had been doing this for anywhere from twenty
Speaker 1: to forty years. I didn't know what I was doing.
Speaker 1: They were kind enough to help me be a good manager.
Speaker 1: Since I didn't know their skill and their craft, then
Speaker 1: I wasn't even going to try. What I was gonna
Speaker 1: do is be there to help them whatever they needed.
Speaker 1: That's really the way I focused. It was focused on
Speaker 1: what do I need to do to help you? And
Speaker 1: then what can I do to add uniquely. It was
Speaker 1: the beginning of my mantra, which is to be useful
Speaker 1: to other people. And that's really what I focused on
Speaker 1: that stayed with you all this time, stayed with me.
Speaker 1: In fact, I wake up every day and ask for
Speaker 1: the strength to be useful to whomever I come in
Speaker 1: contact with. What is really interesting and quite different than
Speaker 1: most people we've had on Math and Magic is how
Speaker 1: P ANDNG has prioritized leadership and management skill over professional
Speaker 1: skill or knowledge point you're just making you move from
Speaker 1: financial analysts, profit forecaster into strategy and then brand manager, associate,
Speaker 1: advertising manager, marketing director, then GM. You even did a
Speaker 1: stent outside the US leading the development P and g's
Speaker 1: global I T strategy at about the time the Internet
Speaker 1: popped up into the consumers lives and you worked in
Speaker 1: hair care, oral products, skincare, the US cosmetics and fragrance products.
Speaker 1: So you had multiple disciplines, multiple product categories. The only
Speaker 1: constant was leadership. Can you give us the philosophy the
Speaker 1: company has for doing that and how they view the
Speaker 1: career path of young managers like you were and how
Speaker 1: it helped to you. Leadership is one of those foundational
Speaker 1: skills that we really seek at PNG. We also look
Speaker 1: for initiative, We look for the ability to make things happen.
Speaker 1: We look for thinking, and problem solving. We hire really
Speaker 1: smart people, but we're also looking for people who can
Speaker 1: work well with others collaboration. It seems like you really
Speaker 1: do prioritize that, and I think in most companies you're
Speaker 1: in a career track, you're a creative type, you're an
Speaker 1: I T person or whatever. It's very hard to say
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take my I T manager or make them
Speaker 1: my marketing manager. Yet the sense I get at P
Speaker 1: and G is that you think smart people can learn
Speaker 1: or do anything, and certainly manage any of these disciplines.
Speaker 1: I wish it was as good as you describe it.
Speaker 1: It's still a little siloed, but in fact, we just
Speaker 1: had our management meetings here where the most senior managers
Speaker 1: the company came in here for a week, and one
Speaker 1: of the things we talked about was moving toward a
Speaker 1: more skill based, less siloed development approach, because we find
Speaker 1: that smart people can do great things. If you give
Speaker 1: them enough of the technical and professional skills, they can
Speaker 1: do pretty amazing things. There's some plunge ability, as you describe,
Speaker 1: but we think we can go even further. So if
Speaker 1: you find a new manager and say that person has
Speaker 1: incredible potential. Do you deliberately push them through different disciplines
Speaker 1: to try and give them a broader experience or does
Speaker 1: that happen by accident it happens deliberately. I would say
Speaker 1: it doesn't happen as much as we'd want it to.
Speaker 1: I think we want to do more. I started in finance,
Speaker 1: moved into in the marketing, So that was an example.
Speaker 1: There's many many people who have started in one place,
Speaker 1: moved into another, and then moved up through the ranks.
Speaker 1: Any advice you would give companies that don't do it
Speaker 1: this way? What would be your argument for the advantage
Speaker 1: of doing it? The advantage of doing is that right
Speaker 1: now the world requires it. The world's moving way too
Speaker 1: fast for us to be able to just stay in
Speaker 1: one particular discipline. We're looking for people who have marketing
Speaker 1: skills and analytical skills, and creative skills, and design skills
Speaker 1: and communication skills. You mentioned that P and G really
Speaker 1: does grow its leaders internally and from the outside. You're
Speaker 1: known for that. I mean here you are the entire
Speaker 1: career of PNG. How does the company think about how
Speaker 1: that happens. The way we focus on developing leaders is
Speaker 1: building their skills, building their capabilities, but the application of
Speaker 1: those to deliver results is the key differentiator. You've got
Speaker 1: to figure out how to build brands and build businesses
Speaker 1: combined with judgment around what potential might be. And then
Speaker 1: a big part of this putting people into jobs that
Speaker 1: are challenging and they stretch, and that's what really then
Speaker 1: propels them. We'll be right back with more from our
Speaker 1: live recording of Math and Magic after this quick break,
Speaker 1: we're back with Mark Pritchard from a live recording of
Speaker 1: Math and Magic at Procter and Gamble in Cincinnati. I
Speaker 1: want to get to some meat of marketing now. You
Speaker 1: live through the advent of the birth of cable TV networks,
Speaker 1: the introduction of the web, the birth of social search,
Speaker 1: mobile targeting, retargeting, programmatic buying, and more. Yet your most
Speaker 1: dramatic bottom line successes, certainly recently, have been after you
Speaker 1: quite dramatically and vocally overhauled your entire marketing and quite
Speaker 1: famously said for all of us and you, we love this.
Speaker 1: What is old is new again? Referring to TV, radio
Speaker 1: and outdoor, what exactly did you and your team do?
Speaker 1: We constructively disrupted ourselves. We did this as a company
Speaker 1: about five years ago where we first of all changed
Speaker 1: our portfolio. Our portfolio products needed to change. We had
Speaker 1: sixteen categories. We moved to ten, ten categories where performance
Speaker 1: drives brand choice, because that's what we're all about. Star
Speaker 1: Candles was the best candle in the world, and Ivory
Speaker 1: Soap when it came out was the best soap in
Speaker 1: the world. And that's what we do is focus on
Speaker 1: products where performance drives brand choice. And then we changed
Speaker 1: our strategy to focus on irresistible superiority, literally irresistible. It
Speaker 1: had to be the best and people had to have it.
Speaker 1: And then what we did is focus on in the
Speaker 1: marketing area, reinventing brand building from mass marketing with lots
Speaker 1: of waste two mass precision, one to one brand building
Speaker 1: using data and digital technology. That's how we started to
Speaker 1: reinvent media, so mass blasting lots of waste to using
Speaker 1: the data to get to one to one precision. It's
Speaker 1: why we rediscovered the power of audio. Back when radio
Speaker 1: came around, we created the ability to connect with people
Speaker 1: through radio and it's just wonderful whenever you and I've
Speaker 1: had several conversations about now the ability to engage with
Speaker 1: people in precision to reach people, and then things like podcasts,
Speaker 1: which has now become this completely new new media. As
Speaker 1: we started getting into new media, we started getting your
Speaker 1: new creativity. We started getting into reinventing advertising, creating content,
Speaker 1: partnerships and new ways of doing things while still doing
Speaker 1: the fundamentals. That changed our agency model. We used to
Speaker 1: have fixed relationships that lasted for decades to the ability
Speaker 1: to flow in and out so we can get greater
Speaker 1: levels of creativity. Finally, we went into too being a
Speaker 1: force for good and a force for growth rather than
Speaker 1: just focusing on one particular vector. It's been a pretty
Speaker 1: big transformation that's making a difference. It's someone who's in
Speaker 1: the audio business. It looks like this year P and
Speaker 1: G will probably wind up as the number one advertising radio,
Speaker 1: or at least close to it. Three years ago, you
Speaker 1: may not have been in the top fifty. What happened there.
Speaker 1: Part of the reason why I think it came about
Speaker 1: is because we started having different types of audio or
Speaker 1: radio opportunities. There were many Pandora, Spotify, Serious, I Heart.
Speaker 1: These all offered new opportunities with new levels of ways
Speaker 1: to engage consumers. We followed consumers, where are they spending
Speaker 1: their time. That was a big aspect of it, because
Speaker 1: that's fundamentally what it's all about. And then we started
Speaker 1: getting creative, We started rediscovering creativity. What that did then
Speaker 1: is allow us to be able to try things, measure
Speaker 1: the performance, and then start reinvesting in it. When you
Speaker 1: look at advertisers supported broadcast television, your reach is declining
Speaker 1: pretty substantially. Does that impact looking for other media like
Speaker 1: radio to get reach. TV used to be the big
Speaker 1: reach medium, at least than most of my career. Laws. Yeah,
Speaker 1: TV is still a big reach medium and we still
Speaker 1: have a pretty heavy investment in TV. The part of
Speaker 1: it that is the perplexing aspect of it is how
Speaker 1: reach continues to decline yet cost continues to go up.
Speaker 1: Just define the laws of economics, but many of us
Speaker 1: continue to go towards that. What that does is that
Speaker 1: causes you to look at different ways to engage with people,
Speaker 1: and many many cases in TV in particular, and we
Speaker 1: actually found this in digital once we demanded to get
Speaker 1: the data, was that there's too much frequency. The most
Speaker 1: annoying part about advertising and media is excess frequency. Having
Speaker 1: to hear or see the same add over and over again,
Speaker 1: part of our job is we started getting the data,
Speaker 1: which is a big difference in that we finally came
Speaker 1: to Grips with the wall gardens and probably gonna stay walled.
Speaker 1: So we went out and got our own data. And
Speaker 1: so now we have over a billion ideas, so we're
Speaker 1: able to more easily track where things are going, programmatically
Speaker 1: serve things so we can cap the frequency so we
Speaker 1: don't annoy people, find new alternatives like radio, like audio,
Speaker 1: and then measure the performance. Let's spend the second on
Speaker 1: the creative, the magic in the math and magic equation.
Speaker 1: What makes a good ad something that is useful and
Speaker 1: interesting and in our case actually conveys the superiority of
Speaker 1: the product. Great ads have an insight that helps a
Speaker 1: person connect to that because they know they recognize it.
Speaker 1: We call out a problem that you have and then
Speaker 1: we show you how to solve it. Is We have
Speaker 1: some really funny ads. We have some really informative ads.
Speaker 1: Some of the most interesting ads we put out there
Speaker 1: like infomercials. I've actually gone back to informers. Mr Clean,
Speaker 1: Magic Eraser. We could not find a way to make
Speaker 1: this brand grow. We did a Super Bowl ad that
Speaker 1: was really funny nothing. What we did is we actually
Speaker 1: put out an AD that's pretty much like an informercial,
Speaker 1: which said, here's all the problems that you have in
Speaker 1: your home in terms of cleaning stuff, and then it
Speaker 1: talked about how Mr Clean Magic eraser can clean all
Speaker 1: those different things. And it was the most straightforward some
Speaker 1: might even call it boring ad. And the business results
Speaker 1: went up ten to as soon as you put it
Speaker 1: on Why because it was useful. It was useful and
Speaker 1: it told people how this product worked. It's not going
Speaker 1: to win any wards it can, but that's fine because
Speaker 1: it's growing to business. Someone told me very early in
Speaker 1: my career I got my first gold Records. Might looked
Speaker 1: at me, small timer and says, you know, kid, you
Speaker 1: can't take it to the a MP. Yes, doesn't add
Speaker 1: have an expiration date. You talked about you don't want
Speaker 1: people to get tired of your ads? Is a great ad?
Speaker 1: A great ad for a long time. Yeah. I really
Speaker 1: believe that the only reason why people are annoyed by ads,
Speaker 1: or why and ad gets old is that they see
Speaker 1: it over and over again. We actually get tired of
Speaker 1: ask before consumers do. In many cases. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you've seen some of the sk two work that
Speaker 1: we've done recently. Those are completely different type of ad.
Speaker 1: Those are like comedy sketches with James Gordon and the
Speaker 1: Naly went Tona Bey and John Legend, and they're hilarious.
Speaker 1: I don't think those are going to get old for
Speaker 1: a long time. It's funny and radio we played the
Speaker 1: songs the personalities on the air here the songs, and
Speaker 1: about the time the personalities say, gosh, I'm sick of
Speaker 1: this song, the consumers to sing, what's that new song
Speaker 1: you're playing? Exactly. Great songs don't get old. Great ads
Speaker 1: don't get old. We've had ads where we've showed them
Speaker 1: over and over again, some of our Olympic advertising. Do
Speaker 1: you ever go back and pick up an old campaign
Speaker 1: or an old ad or elements from it and bring
Speaker 1: it around again. Periodically we go back and look for inspiration.
Speaker 1: Now you give me some ideas to go back and
Speaker 1: do some of that. I want to jump back to
Speaker 1: where we began. P and G is a huge company,
Speaker 1: but it has a heart that you might actually expect
Speaker 1: from a nonprofit. You talked little bit about where this
Speaker 1: came from, but I'd like to hit a couple of
Speaker 1: the things you've on and are doing, just to get
Speaker 1: a little context on it. Love over Bias. Can you
Speaker 1: give us a minute on that? Yeah? Love Over Bias
Speaker 1: was our last Olympic ad, which was trying to shine
Speaker 1: the light on the bias that exists in the world
Speaker 1: and then imagine what the world can see if they
Speaker 1: looked at it through mom's eyes and looked at people
Speaker 1: through mom's eyes. It was just a brilliant add It
Speaker 1: was one of the best we've ever done. It was
Speaker 1: also directed by Alma Horrell, who is you may know,
Speaker 1: founded Free to Work. Just a brilliant director gave just
Speaker 1: such a touch to it that was just phenomenal that
Speaker 1: really helped build our business. At the same time, were
Speaker 1: you able to measure it in any way the impact
Speaker 1: it had on changing attitudes? Primarily the way we measured
Speaker 1: that one is through just the sentiment that it provided.
Speaker 1: The reactions that we got of an ad is really
Speaker 1: brilliant or a piece of work is really brilliant. It
Speaker 1: does amplify and get carried. You've been a vocal advocate
Speaker 1: for pay equality. I think if my numbers are right,
Speaker 1: about forty of the manager years of the company are
Speaker 1: now women seven Sorry with old numbers. How did the
Speaker 1: company do that? What was the process to get there?
Speaker 1: Because I think there's a lesson in that for a
Speaker 1: lot of other companies that are wrestling with the same issue.
Speaker 1: A big part of that came from leadership. When I started,
Speaker 1: there were not many women managers, but the leadership at
Speaker 1: the time, John Smail and then eventually John Pepper and
Speaker 1: others said diversity is important, and that led to over
Speaker 1: time now at and we're seeking to get leadership still today,
Speaker 1: David Taylor is absolutely adamant about the power of diversity,
Speaker 1: and over time. What we also found, Bob, was that
Speaker 1: diversity is not only the right thing to do, it's
Speaker 1: the smart thing to do. When it comes to building business.
Speaker 1: The most diverse companies, the most diverse teams tend to
Speaker 1: do better. It's gender, it's race, it's nethicity, it's a
Speaker 1: sexual and gender identity, it's ability, religion, and age, and
Speaker 1: we look at things out on an intersectional basis because
Speaker 1: it's intersectional. Quality is important. A big part of that
Speaker 1: is because that's who we serve. We serve all humanity,
Speaker 1: so therefore our company needs to reflect humanity. So we're
Speaker 1: deliberately focusing on that. We're not where we want to
Speaker 1: be yet, but we're absolutely deliberate about making a difference there.
Speaker 1: You're a good role model for all of us. We
Speaker 1: reach Americans every month, so we say we need to
Speaker 1: reflect that in every layer of our company. We're not
Speaker 1: there and are working to get there. Our industry has
Speaker 1: a lot more work to do on that front, there's
Speaker 1: no question about that. One of our goals is to
Speaker 1: get equality in the creative supply chain, so to speak,
Speaker 1: so companies, agencies behind the camera. We're making progress. We've
Speaker 1: got at least women in our brand organization, so that's
Speaker 1: at least a good start at literally every level. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about P and G products and the company itself
Speaker 1: and how it plays role in fighting extreme poverty, plastic pollution,
Speaker 1: education girls. Give us a little context for some of those.
Speaker 1: We have some what we call citizenship pillars ethics and
Speaker 1: corporate responsibility foundational. Then we have community impact things like
Speaker 1: clean safe drinking water that we provide to now fifteen
Speaker 1: billion liters of clean water to people who don't have any.
Speaker 1: Then we have gender quality, diversity, inclusion, and environmental sustainability.
Speaker 1: We made a choice to build it into our business.
Speaker 1: So we used to bolt it on as a separate activity,
Speaker 1: we now have built it in to how we do things.
Speaker 1: So when we think about gender equality, for example, we
Speaker 1: use our voice in advertising as a way to have
Speaker 1: an accurate and realistic portrayal of women and again of race, ethnicity,
Speaker 1: sexual and general identity, religion, ability, and age, because that
Speaker 1: accuracy will then portray people as they are and eventually
Speaker 1: eliminates Because when you reach five billion people on the
Speaker 1: planet every day and you're the world's artest advertised ordinary,
Speaker 1: you have an impact. So that's number one. Then we
Speaker 1: periodically take stands like we did with Like a Girl,
Speaker 1: like we're doing that with im period poverty, take a
Speaker 1: stand because we can use our voice to be able
Speaker 1: to make a difference. We won't spend that much on
Speaker 1: those things, but we get an outsized impact because people
Speaker 1: care about that. We're now building in sustainability into our products.
Speaker 1: The head and Shoulders beach plastic bottle, take the wasted
Speaker 1: plastic off the beaches turned into a plastic bottle and
Speaker 1: the allianced and plastic waste is another effort we're working out.
Speaker 1: Do you think on things like that that you are
Speaker 1: reflecting the consumer, are actually leading the consumer into places
Speaker 1: they should be. Frankly, I think we're reflecting what the
Speaker 1: consumers wanted to man think they're already there. Nine out
Speaker 1: of ten consumers feel better about a brand if they
Speaker 1: support some kind of an environmental or a social cause.
Speaker 1: More than two thirds now, particularly millennials and Gen Z,
Speaker 1: are choosing brands on the basis of shared beliefs and increasingly,
Speaker 1: and I think we will see that exponentially increase, which
Speaker 1: is why we've made a choice that we're going to
Speaker 1: build it into how we innovate and how we build brands,
Speaker 1: as opposed to have it as some kind of a
Speaker 1: separate effort. I know your job title doesn't say this,
Speaker 1: but you are clearly a role model for marketers. Does
Speaker 1: that affect you? I mean, are you conscious of it?
Speaker 1: I'm honored that somebody would think that, and I come
Speaker 1: at it though through the I think of responsibility to
Speaker 1: be in this position, to have the privilege to try
Speaker 1: to role model. These positions have a certain level of
Speaker 1: impact that what I try to do is use that
Speaker 1: for good. That's why I try to think about every day,
Speaker 1: is what can I do to be useful today useful
Speaker 1: to whoever. Frank Blake a CEO of Home Depot, former CEO,
Speaker 1: and he's now one of our board members. He gives
Speaker 1: this idea of the inverted pyramid. The leader's position is
Speaker 1: at the bottom of the pyramid down here. Leadership is
Speaker 1: a weight bearing position, and your job is to support
Speaker 1: the people in your organization. You could not probably get
Speaker 1: any more rewards or honors than you've gotten. What do
Speaker 1: you do to keep that from going to your head?
Speaker 1: How do you not have Darth Vader whispering in your
Speaker 1: ear trying to bring you over to the dark side
Speaker 1: of the force? You know, as an extreme introvert, I
Speaker 1: find those things incredibly embarrassing because there's a little bit
Speaker 1: more attention than I would want. Again, I try to
Speaker 1: flip it around to say, don't read your own press.
Speaker 1: Whenever I've received anything, I've tried to think, is there
Speaker 1: something I can convey that's useful in this discussion. I'll
Speaker 1: give you a little story that might illustrate this a
Speaker 1: little bit. I was a general manager of cosmetics, then
Speaker 1: I became the president of Cosmetics and Personal Care. Then
Speaker 1: I was the president of Global Strategy, working for the CEO.
Speaker 1: But I had no P and L responsibility. Tell you what.
Speaker 1: The phone never rang, the emails dried up. For two years.
Speaker 1: On business job, I would go to things and it's like, hey, Mark,
Speaker 1: how you doing. Yeah it's good, good good? Yeah, what
Speaker 1: are you doing? I was on global strategy working for
Speaker 1: the seriod. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you have responsibility. No, hey, good,
Speaker 1: seen you. Then I became CMO of P and suddenly
Speaker 1: the most popular man, and he alone started ringing again.
Speaker 1: It's the position, it's the chair. Don't ever let the
Speaker 1: position or the chair get to your head. You can
Speaker 1: do the right thing, do a good job, and be
Speaker 1: a good person, and stay humble and stay in yourself
Speaker 1: and everything will be fine. That lesson that I had
Speaker 1: for those two years is very, very valuable, and I
Speaker 1: convey that lesson frequently. Stay humble. Let me get you
Speaker 1: to give some advice. How do you think about work
Speaker 1: life balance for you and work life balance for your
Speaker 1: team and the people who work here. Work life balance
Speaker 1: to me is a bit of a myths if you
Speaker 1: think of balance is being equal, because in some of
Speaker 1: the positions that we're in, a certain position that I'm in,
Speaker 1: there's not an equality in terms of work and life.
Speaker 1: It's work life integration, and the two have to go together.
Speaker 1: So it's really consciously making time for when you want
Speaker 1: to do something other than work. I wish I was
Speaker 1: better at it, because honestly, I'm not. Still have a
Speaker 1: tendency to go too much work. When it comes to
Speaker 1: the people who work with me, I don't want to
Speaker 1: impose my standards on them. I recognize that there are
Speaker 1: times when I do that where I will make phone
Speaker 1: calls at certain times, and I have to really be
Speaker 1: careful of that. Sometimes I have certain people who I'm
Speaker 1: looking out of the audience right now, who are smiling brightly.
Speaker 1: I'm not looking at people, and I'm trying not to.
Speaker 1: I think that's really the advice I would give. Just
Speaker 1: engage with the humans that you work with, and understand
Speaker 1: their life enough and their work and their expectations, and
Speaker 1: have enough of an exchange and build enough trust to
Speaker 1: where you can have those kinds of conversations. I had
Speaker 1: one person who wants told me, said, Mark, quit sending
Speaker 1: emails on the weekends. To why because everybody's scrambling around
Speaker 1: doing everything. I said, oh my god, Okay, tell you what.
Speaker 1: I might send you an email on the weekend. That
Speaker 1: is not a requirement for you to respond to me
Speaker 1: on the weekend. The reason why I'm sending your emails
Speaker 1: on the weekend, it's because I'm working the entire week
Speaker 1: in meetings while you guys are sending me emails. So
Speaker 1: the only time I had to do emails is on
Speaker 1: the weekends. So that's why I'm doing that. And I
Speaker 1: didn't realize it until they said, you know, yeah, you
Speaker 1: Core Matt over here was working until all hours of
Speaker 1: the night on a Sunday night, and say, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I felt terrible about that. So have a conversation, have
Speaker 1: the dialogue. It can all work out. Respect other people's
Speaker 1: boundaries as well, and then as a coworker, communicate your boundaries,
Speaker 1: make sure you understand those boundaries. Don't make the assumption
Speaker 1: to this one big, really really important assumption that people
Speaker 1: make is that we as managers our machines and that
Speaker 1: we're not human. And I used to think the same
Speaker 1: way of people that were in my position when I
Speaker 1: was younger. Poor the humans, you'd be surprised when you
Speaker 1: put your quest out there, you put your expectation out there.
Speaker 1: Usually respond what advice would you give yourself to the
Speaker 1: twenty one year old Mark. My big advice is on
Speaker 1: Mark is think about other people more than you think
Speaker 1: about yourself. It took you a while to realize that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it did. It took me a while. What was your
Speaker 1: epiphany there? Frankly, once I got married and started having children,
Speaker 1: that is usually what changes you, as everyone well knows. Also,
Speaker 1: in this role, I don't have PMO responsibility, so my
Speaker 1: job is to help other people. Now, looking back on that,
Speaker 1: I wish I had been more in service of others
Speaker 1: throughout my entire career. Before we wrap up, I have
Speaker 1: one more question about you. You did not move from
Speaker 1: company to company. You built your entire career in this
Speaker 1: one company. We talked some about the advantages of it.
Speaker 1: Did you intend to do that? Was that deliberate action?
Speaker 1: Not really. I got an undergraduate degree at Indiana and
Speaker 1: Finance and Business. I thought I would probably work for
Speaker 1: two years, and then I'd probably go back and get
Speaker 1: my m b A and then do something else. I
Speaker 1: just kept learning and getting challenged every single day. Thirty
Speaker 1: seven and a half years later, I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: just getting started. We always wrap up one way. We
Speaker 1: give a shout out to the greats in math and
Speaker 1: magic of marketing. So if you think about the person
Speaker 1: who you know or know of that's the greatest math person,
Speaker 1: who would that be, well, the greatest math person. There's
Speaker 1: two of them that come to mind. There's like three
Speaker 1: of them that come to sorry, but we're alright. Curties Singh,
Speaker 1: who is our chief Analytics and insights officer, who is
Speaker 1: just brilliant. He understands the math and he understands the
Speaker 1: data and he gets insights that make profound changes in
Speaker 1: terms of how we think about things. And connected to that,
Speaker 1: Jasmine jew and Yah and He who are in China
Speaker 1: who have completely transformed our business in China. That business
Speaker 1: used to be five years ago television, very little digital,
Speaker 1: and they have completely flipped a digital. Almost all of
Speaker 1: it has done programmatically, all driven through data and analytics,
Speaker 1: and they've completely changed things. Three way time math, Let's
Speaker 1: go to magic. Who's the greatest magician? Who's that great creative?
Speaker 1: That one might be like a five way time sorry,
Speaker 1: one of Alice Erickson, who was easy, Beauty, beautiful cover girl.
Speaker 1: I would also put in there Queen Latifa and Katie
Speaker 1: Couric because they have constantly changed themselves Katie has a
Speaker 1: podcast on the He's in the Family, and I would
Speaker 1: also put Arianna Huffington's in there in terms of people
Speaker 1: who have She also has another podcast, Wow Keeping that Planned.
Speaker 1: But think about the longevity that they've had because they
Speaker 1: are constantly recreating themselves. There's some real power to that.
Speaker 1: Almarel is one of those up and comers who has
Speaker 1: really got this gaze that I find to be brilliant.
Speaker 1: John Legend, James Cordon, they're doing some work with this
Speaker 1: on SK two. John Legend was one of our podcasts
Speaker 1: to spit the guest. Yes, we love your choices. Mark.
Speaker 1: We really appreciate your unique contributions to marketing. This has
Speaker 1: been an honor. I appreciate the hospitality out here in
Speaker 1: Cincinnati and Procter and Gamble and to the room of
Speaker 1: all of you are first ever live audience for Math
Speaker 1: and Magic. Thank you too. All right, thank you. Here
Speaker 1: are a few things I picked up in my conversation
Speaker 1: with Mark. One. Creating a bold campaign based on values
Speaker 1: can unlock creativity. When P ANDNG committed to diversity and
Speaker 1: they're easy, breezy beautiful cover Girl campaign New Talent brought
Speaker 1: fresh ideas to the brand two. Smart people can stretch
Speaker 1: their skill set and become invaluable assets in today's workplace.
Speaker 1: At P and G, this approach is part of how
Speaker 1: they think about every employee's potential. Three. Follow the consumer
Speaker 1: and what influences them. When Mark looked at the reach
Speaker 1: and power of audio, he saw an opportunity for growth
Speaker 1: that really paid off. He's had five straight quarters of
Speaker 1: record growth in his business. Thanks for listening. I'm Bob Pittman.
Speaker 1: That's it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening
Speaker 1: to Math and Magic, a production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: This show is hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to
Speaker 1: Sue Schillinger for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which
Speaker 1: is no small feat. Nikki Etre for pulling research, Bill
Speaker 1: Plax and Michael Asar for their recording help, our editor
Speaker 1: Ryan Murdoch, and of course Gayle Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel
Speaker 1: Mango and everyone who helped bring this show to your ears.
Speaker 1: Until next time,