Clip 1: Who wants to take a pill for the rest of
Clip 1: their life. It's not like you sign up and go, Oh, goody, woo!
Clip 1: I'm taking a pill for the for the rest of
Clip 1: my life. I have a disease that people cannot see.
Clip 1: It's not like breaking an arm. It's not like cancer
Clip 1: where everyone's sorry for you because you have to go chemotherapy.
Clip 1: Everyone looks at you and says, Oh, you don't need
Clip 1: that pill. Just think positive. And if it were that simple,
Clip 1: don't you think I would try that? Of course, thinking
Clip 1: positive is part of my makeup, but it's not the answer.
Clip 1: I have an organic brain disorder where my brain does
Clip 1: not produce the chemicals that other people produce. When I
Clip 1: get depressed, I get depressed. When I get manic, I
Clip 1: get manic. And when I hear voices, I cannot control them.
Clip 1: It doesn't matter what I do. My last psychiatrist, he said,
Clip 1: You're going to have to live with the voices for
Clip 1: the rest of your life. You're going to have to
Clip 1: figure out how to manage them. And every drug I've taken,
Clip 1: none of them have worked. It's not something like I
Clip 1: wake up every day going, I'm in joy. I'm taking
Clip 1: my meds. But part of it is now I am
Clip 1: a little joyful that I have a medication that keeps
Clip 1: me stable and my thoughts are my own. And I
Clip 1: can manage the voices without doing what they command me
Clip 1: to do. Because if I did what they commanded me
Clip 1: to do, then I will either kill myself or kill
Clip 1: someone else.
Faydra Aldridge: Claws of pain. Abilify risperidone. All are just a few
Faydra Aldridge: of the many antipsychotic drugs available today. These drugs, like
Faydra Aldridge: any other prescription drug, has their side effects, but they
Faydra Aldridge: can also help a person manage their symptoms of schizophrenia,
Faydra Aldridge: including paranoia, delusions and hallucinations. And yet there's a movement
Faydra Aldridge: that's been picking up a lot of speed that wants
Faydra Aldridge: to shift mainstream thinking away from medication towards a greater
Faydra Aldridge: acceptance of living with the voices and the hallucinations that
Faydra Aldridge: come with a serious mental illness. It's a controversial and
Faydra Aldridge: hot topic right now, but that's what this season is
Faydra Aldridge: all about. Today, we brought back a voice you may
Faydra Aldridge: remember from our first season, Dr. Diane Macintosh. Psychiatrist and
Faydra Aldridge: clinical assistant professor at the University of British Columbia. And
Faydra Aldridge: we are going to be talking about the use of
Faydra Aldridge: medications when treating serious mental illnesses like schizophrenia. Dr. Macintosh,
Faydra Aldridge: it's wonderful to have you back on the show. Thanks
Faydra Aldridge: for being here.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: Thanks so much, Phaedra.
Faydra Aldridge: Okay. So let's start off today's show by talking about
Faydra Aldridge: the different types of medication. I understand that there are
Faydra Aldridge: two main groups of antipsychotics. So what are they and
Faydra Aldridge: how do they work on the brain?
Dr.Diane McIntosh: Well, I would argue there are several different groups or
Dr.Diane McIntosh: types of antipsychotics, and actually each one is a distinct entity.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: And that's why there are many people who have tried
Dr.Diane McIntosh: different ones that took time to find the one that
Dr.Diane McIntosh: was right for them. But generally, we classify antipsychotics into
Dr.Diane McIntosh: two groups. One is the sort of older conventional antipsychotics,
Dr.Diane McIntosh: the only ones that were available more than about 20
Dr.Diane McIntosh: years ago. And then the newer, what are often called
Dr.Diane McIntosh: atypical antipsychotics. These ones have some of the same challenging
Dr.Diane McIntosh: side effects that the older ones have, but also less
Dr.Diane McIntosh: of some of the challenging side effects that the older
Dr.Diane McIntosh: ones have. They're all effective for treating schizophrenia, but every
Dr.Diane McIntosh: drug works. It doesn't mean they work in every brain.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: And now we have some newer ones in the atypical
Dr.Diane McIntosh: group that have some added benefits that they have some
Dr.Diane McIntosh: benefits for depression or anxiety, as well as some of
Dr.Diane McIntosh: the more challenging negative symptoms associated with schizophrenia.
Faydra Aldridge: So how do you, as a clinician, Dr. Macintosh, decide
Faydra Aldridge: whether to give an individual a first generation antipsychotic or
Faydra Aldridge: the second generation or atypical antipsychotic?
Dr.Diane McIntosh: I have stopped using first generation antipsychotics completely and have
Dr.Diane McIntosh: for many, many years. And that's because of the kinds
Dr.Diane McIntosh: of side effects, the challenges associated with those older age.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: And so the reason that I tend to use some
Dr.Diane McIntosh: of the newer ones, because I treat people that have
Dr.Diane McIntosh: mood issues, anxiety issues as well. Those tend to be
Dr.Diane McIntosh: a little bit better. But there are patients that do
Dr.Diane McIntosh: better with some of the older atypical agents olanzapine for
Dr.Diane McIntosh: as a pain being an excellent treatment. They come with
Dr.Diane McIntosh: a lot of side effects and one of the biggest
Dr.Diane McIntosh: challenges is related to the weight gain or metabolic syndrome
Dr.Diane McIntosh: that sometimes goes along with these medications. The problem is
Dr.Diane McIntosh: that disorders like schizophrenia, bipolar disorder come with challenges related
Dr.Diane McIntosh: to metabolic syndrome and weight. So you put those two together,
Dr.Diane McIntosh: both the medication and the propensity associated with the disorder.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: We have to be really careful about our drug choices
Dr.Diane McIntosh: and trying to reduce the risk of weight gain, metabolic
Dr.Diane McIntosh: syndrome and other side effects as much as possible. And
Dr.Diane McIntosh: now we're going to pause and take a moment to
Dr.Diane McIntosh: listen to this person's experience taking antipsychotic medications.
Clip 2: For years, I struggled with trying to find the right meds,
Clip 2: and I've been on a lot of different antipsychotics, different antidepressants.
Clip 2: I've done lithium. Abigail sterilizing Haldol. Trials don't serve well,
Clip 2: and none of them worked until this past year where
Clip 2: I just. My past admission to hospital. The allowance of
Clip 2: pain was what they put me back on. And for
Clip 2: a year now, because I'm also sober, can relate to
Clip 2: what I was saying about self-medicating with marijuana. And I
Clip 2: also did other drugs as well that were thinking that
Clip 2: I could help my mental health that way. But just
Clip 2: over 14 months ago, I, I quit everything and went
Clip 2: back into the AA programs and a program. And I've
Clip 2: been sober for 14 months now, and that has been
Clip 2: my lifesaver. So two things happen. My substance abuse is
Clip 2: now stable and I'm in recovery and my mental health
Clip 2: is now stable. And I take my medication every day.
Clip 2: And I realize now that for the rest of my life,
Clip 2: I can never come off this medication, because if I
Clip 2: don't want to remember or relive the experiences that I
Clip 2: had in psychosis, then I need to do the right thing.
Clip 2: And the right thing is to stay on medication and
Clip 2: not drink alcohol or drugs.
Faydra Aldridge: So, Dr. Macintosh, listening to that clip and based on
Faydra Aldridge: all of your experience, she listed so many medications. So
Faydra Aldridge: why is it so difficult to find the right combination?
Dr.Diane McIntosh: I think what she said, all of it was so
Dr.Diane McIntosh: critically important and there were a lot of different layers
Dr.Diane McIntosh: that I think are worth exploring. First of all, we
Dr.Diane McIntosh: know that all of the Health Canada, the FDA approved
Dr.Diane McIntosh: indicated medications work because they've had studies that back them
Dr.Diane McIntosh: up and years of experience in the use of these medications.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: But in reality, they don't work for every brain because
Dr.Diane McIntosh: every individual is unique and has unique needs. So we
Dr.Diane McIntosh: need to unfortunately, because we don't have lab work or X-rays, radiographs,
Dr.Diane McIntosh: it can say, okay, you have this kind of disorder
Dr.Diane McIntosh: that is going to require this treatment. We have to
Dr.Diane McIntosh: do a lot of trial and error. The other part
Dr.Diane McIntosh: that's important is the fact that each individual has side
Dr.Diane McIntosh: effects that they would find completely intolerable versus ones that
Dr.Diane McIntosh: they can live with. So this is truly a partnership.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: It should be between the prescriber and their patient to
Dr.Diane McIntosh: find out what works best for them, not just from
Dr.Diane McIntosh: a is it affective perspective, but also from a tolerability perspective.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: She mentioned something that was also critically important, which was
Dr.Diane McIntosh: her sobriety and the fact that when especially young people
Dr.Diane McIntosh: who have a new onset of schizophrenia or bipolar disorder
Dr.Diane McIntosh: often will use substances, whether it's alcohol, cannabis or other
Dr.Diane McIntosh: substances to self-medicate or maybe just because they like using them.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: That really throws a wrench in the works when you're
Dr.Diane McIntosh: trying to find a medication that works. So you can
Dr.Diane McIntosh: see that she tried a number of different ones. None
Dr.Diane McIntosh: of them worked for her until she was put on
Dr.Diane McIntosh: the O lanzapine . But she also was using multiple substances
Dr.Diane McIntosh: which could have confused the picture. The other challenge here
Dr.Diane McIntosh: is with adherence that people don't like. I wish they
Dr.Diane McIntosh: weren't called antipsychotics. They don't like to take medication. They
Dr.Diane McIntosh: certainly don't want to take a medication label like that often.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: They're hearing erroneous information from other people that have negative views.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: It's really hard to take your medication every single day,
Dr.Diane McIntosh: particularly if there's side effects that you don't love. So
Dr.Diane McIntosh: the combination of substances, challenges with adherence and the fact
Dr.Diane McIntosh: that our medications are not perfect make it really difficult
Dr.Diane McIntosh: to find the right treatment and make it personalized. Personalized
Dr.Diane McIntosh: medicine means the right treatment for the right person at
Dr.Diane McIntosh: the right time.
Faydra Aldridge: So how do we know when a drug is actually
Faydra Aldridge: working or not working?
Dr.Diane McIntosh: We have what are called clinical scales that we can
Dr.Diane McIntosh: use so that the most objective measures that we have,
Dr.Diane McIntosh: we're all supposed to be using these clinical scales in
Dr.Diane McIntosh: our day to day interactions with our patients. So we
Dr.Diane McIntosh: have measurements that we can follow over time. And of course,
Dr.Diane McIntosh: the most important thing is the conversations that we have
Dr.Diane McIntosh: with our patients about their experiences, how they're functioning, what
Dr.Diane McIntosh: their quality of life is like. So it's not just
Dr.Diane McIntosh: the symptoms, although the symptoms are critically important to try
Dr.Diane McIntosh: to manage completely, but also how are you living your life?
Dr.Diane McIntosh: How are you getting things done? Are you enjoying your days?
Dr.Diane McIntosh: Are you able to do the work or be in
Dr.Diane McIntosh: school or parent your children effectively? All of those pieces
Dr.Diane McIntosh: go together to know this medication is working.
Faydra Aldridge: So how long does it typically take to know if
Faydra Aldridge: a drug is working?
Dr.Diane McIntosh: This is probably going to startle you, Faydra, but it
Dr.Diane McIntosh: takes about two weeks.
Faydra Aldridge: Two weeks. Wow.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: And too often I meet patients who have been on
Dr.Diane McIntosh: the same treatment for six months a year. They still
Dr.Diane McIntosh: have significant symptoms and nobody's changed anything. And critically, it
Dr.Diane McIntosh: takes about two weeks. If nothing is happening at two weeks,
Dr.Diane McIntosh: there is no improvement at all. The likelihood that that
Dr.Diane McIntosh: drug is going to work is almost none. Now, that
Dr.Diane McIntosh: makes people anxious. Sometimes when I teach this, although there's
Dr.Diane McIntosh: a whole bunch of data to support this. So I say, okay,
Dr.Diane McIntosh: in two weeks, have a follow up, see how things
Dr.Diane McIntosh: are going. Check in with your patient. Are they having
Dr.Diane McIntosh: any side effects? Are they managing to take the medication
Dr.Diane McIntosh: most days? Give it another couple of weeks. But you
Dr.Diane McIntosh: should know within a 4 to 6 week period, Max.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: Is this drug going to help? If you're not finding that,
Dr.Diane McIntosh: you have some significant response to that medications, significant changes
Dr.Diane McIntosh: in functioning, it ain't going to work and it's time
Dr.Diane McIntosh: to try something else. And unfortunately, we have not had
Dr.Diane McIntosh: that kind of approach to psychiatry, nor do we have
Dr.Diane McIntosh: access to care that's adequate to manage to have that
Dr.Diane McIntosh: kind of connection and make sure that people are continuing
Dr.Diane McIntosh: to have a positive experience with their medication.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: Now, Dr. Macintosh, we're going to play another clip from
Dr.Diane McIntosh: someone describing their experiences being on antipsychotics.
Clip 3: Being going on and off medications since I was 16.
Clip 3: So it feels like a long time anyway. But truly,
Clip 3: the biggest thing that frustrates me is the negative side
Clip 3: effects of these medications that you're taking or I'm taking
Clip 3: because they don't really talk about that a whole lot,
Clip 3: like the antipsychotics that they prescribe are so sedating, like
Clip 3: they give you a brain fog. Like it really feels
Clip 3: like you're almost like a zombie. I may be overgeneralizing
Clip 3: a bit, but every single antipsychotic that I've been on
Clip 3: has had some sort of similar effect in that regard,
Clip 3: and it's not enjoyable. I don't want to take it,
Clip 3: but I know I have to because it at least
Clip 3: dissolves some of the hallucinations that I'm experiencing and some
Clip 3: of the delusions that I'm experiencing.
Faydra Aldridge: So in that clip, we heard some of the delusions. Dr.
Faydra Aldridge: McIntosh why do some symptoms still exist even when taking medication?
Dr.Diane McIntosh: As we spoke about before, people often struggle to take
Dr.Diane McIntosh: their medication every day. I never ask anyone anymore, Are
Dr.Diane McIntosh: you taking your medication? I ask. How often do you
Dr.Diane McIntosh: take your medication? Because it's hard to take it every day.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: We have better medications that are less sedating. We need
Dr.Diane McIntosh: to be much more effective in personalizing treatment and listening
Dr.Diane McIntosh: to the side effects that people are experiencing and trying
Dr.Diane McIntosh: to mitigate those side effects so people will stay on
Dr.Diane McIntosh: their medication. I mean, that very short clip of what
Dr.Diane McIntosh: is wrong within psychiatry practice. We don't listen. We don't
Dr.Diane McIntosh: address symptoms. Were fearful of combining medications somehow. It's wrong
Dr.Diane McIntosh: to ask someone to take more than one medication. But
Dr.Diane McIntosh: I think most people would like to have their symptoms
Dr.Diane McIntosh: fully managed and manage those side effects simultaneously by being
Dr.Diane McIntosh: thoughtful about using combinations. If we do it in high
Dr.Diane McIntosh: blood pressure and hypertension, if we do it in diabetes,
Dr.Diane McIntosh: why can't we do it in another medical disorder, schizophrenia?
Dr.Diane McIntosh: We have to be more thoughtful about our treatments. We
Dr.Diane McIntosh: need to listen to our patients both the challenges that
Dr.Diane McIntosh: they're experiencing. Because what happens is if you're not taking
Dr.Diane McIntosh: your medication or you're having side effects you don't like.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: The drug doesn't work, it doesn't get optimized. We don't
Dr.Diane McIntosh: manage every symptom. And we know, again, a ton of
Dr.Diane McIntosh: data to show us the importance of managing every symptom.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: Some of our disorders are neuro progressive, which means they
Dr.Diane McIntosh: can get worse over time. So we want to try
Dr.Diane McIntosh: to manage every possible symptom. But if someone saying, Well,
Dr.Diane McIntosh: you're zombified me, so I'm not taking anymore, we got
Dr.Diane McIntosh: to do something different. We got to make a different choice.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: And it's another piece I want to mention. We need
Dr.Diane McIntosh: innovative treatments in psychiatry. The ones that we have are
Dr.Diane McIntosh: not fantastic. They're difficult to take. So we need to
Dr.Diane McIntosh: make sure that we're being creative in our pharmacology to
Dr.Diane McIntosh: help patients to be able to take these medications. But
Dr.Diane McIntosh: even more importantly, we need new treatments. Recently, we got
Dr.Diane McIntosh: a new treatment in depression called a Satomi. It's a
Dr.Diane McIntosh: nasal spray. That's the first new mechanism of action in
Dr.Diane McIntosh: 30 years for the treatment of depression. We are still
Dr.Diane McIntosh: having the same mechanism of action that we have used
Dr.Diane McIntosh: forever in schizophrenia. We need new treatments, and the way
Dr.Diane McIntosh: that we get those is by having pharma industry. It
Dr.Diane McIntosh: has to be very well regulated, but they're not going
Dr.Diane McIntosh: to bring treatments to Canada if we can't do trials
Dr.Diane McIntosh: and get them covered in Canada. And this is the
Dr.Diane McIntosh: greatest barrier for so many patients is there in tolerability.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: So the side effects of medications. They don't take them
Dr.Diane McIntosh: and they're not optimal.
Faydra Aldridge: You're listening to Look Again. Mental Illness Re-examined. A podcast
Faydra Aldridge: brought to you by the B.C. Schizophrenia Society and B
Faydra Aldridge: C partner organizations. I'm your host, Faydra Aldridge. This podcast
Faydra Aldridge: would not be possible without the support of the community.
Faydra Aldridge: From the bottom of our hearts, we want to thank
Faydra Aldridge: you for caring about serious mental illness and everything that's
Faydra Aldridge: around it. Together, we truly can make a difference.
Faydra Aldridge: Welcome back to look again. Mental illness re-examined for talking
Faydra Aldridge: to UBC clinical Assistant professor Dr. McIntosh about the medications
Faydra Aldridge: used for various serious mental illnesses and how they work.
Faydra Aldridge: But now we're going to switch gears and talk about
Faydra Aldridge: the movement that's been happening quite slowly for decades, but
Faydra Aldridge: seems to be picking up a lot of speed lately,
Faydra Aldridge: which is living with the hallucinations and choosing not to medicate.
Faydra Aldridge: So May of 2022, the New York Times Magazine published
Faydra Aldridge: parts of an author's novel about this no medication movement.
Faydra Aldridge: And some people hailed it as the way that we
Faydra Aldridge: should be going with treating mental illness, while others feel
Faydra Aldridge: it's irresponsible, creates harm. And it actually does the complete
Faydra Aldridge: opposite of removing the stigma around illnesses like schizophrenia. Dr. McIntosh,
Faydra Aldridge: over to you. What are your thoughts on this movement?
Dr.Diane McIntosh: I would say that psychiatry is responsible for this movement,
Dr.Diane McIntosh: and that is because we have not done a good
Dr.Diane McIntosh: enough job of educating, of listening and helping our patients
Dr.Diane McIntosh: to find the best possible treatment for them. And also,
Dr.Diane McIntosh: the reality is that we don't have a full understanding
Dr.Diane McIntosh: of where schizophrenia comes from. We know that there is
Dr.Diane McIntosh: a biological genetic risk associated with it. There are psychological
Dr.Diane McIntosh: risks and social risks that all come together, but we
Dr.Diane McIntosh: don't have the whole story. So there are lots of
Dr.Diane McIntosh: people and factors that go into the responsibility for this movement.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: But it's such a sad movement in my mind because
Dr.Diane McIntosh: of those failures. People will make a decision not to
Dr.Diane McIntosh: treat a very serious mental illness, and the outcome of
Dr.Diane McIntosh: those decisions can mean a massive decline in quality of life,
Dr.Diane McIntosh: changes in relationships and inability to parent or to maintain
Dr.Diane McIntosh: partnerships and inability to work or go to school. All
Dr.Diane McIntosh: of those issues are very real. When a serious mental illness,
Dr.Diane McIntosh: whether it's bipolar, schizophrenia, depression is untreated.
Faydra Aldridge: Dr. Macintosh, earlier you said you don't like the term
Faydra Aldridge: antipsychotic drugs. What term would you use if you could
Faydra Aldridge: change the name today to something else?
Dr.Diane McIntosh: It's a good question because the big drive in the
Dr.Diane McIntosh: world of psychiatry is talking about a mechanism. And most
Dr.Diane McIntosh: people aren't comfortable using the term dopamine antagonist or dopamine
Dr.Diane McIntosh: partial agonist. So what the way I talk about it
Dr.Diane McIntosh: is I use it terms like these are medications to
Dr.Diane McIntosh: treat psychotic symptoms because antipsychotics, particularly the newer ones we
Dr.Diane McIntosh: use as antidepressants, they work to treat anxiety as well.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: So most medications have more than one use mood stabilizers
Dr.Diane McIntosh: that we use to treat bipolar disorder. Most of them
Dr.Diane McIntosh: are anticonvulsant medications, so we use them for seizures. So
Dr.Diane McIntosh: I try to use medications mechanistically. What is the mechanism
Dr.Diane McIntosh: of action? What is its job? And then how can
Dr.Diane McIntosh: we use that most effectively to help that patient manage
Dr.Diane McIntosh: their symptoms? So antipsychotic is a misnomer. Patients want quality
Dr.Diane McIntosh: of life that's at the top of the pile, right?
Dr.Diane McIntosh: I want to enjoy my life. There is always something
Dr.Diane McIntosh: else we could do. There's always a path ahead. But
Dr.Diane McIntosh: it requires access to care. And this is the greatest
Dr.Diane McIntosh: challenge in our health care system now is no one
Dr.Diane McIntosh: can access high quality care.
Faydra Aldridge: As you said, the relationship between the person living with
Faydra Aldridge: the illness, clinicians such as yourself and family members, that
Faydra Aldridge: circle of care.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: Psychiatry has always had this thing about, you know, don't
Dr.Diane McIntosh: talk to anyone else. There's only the patient and obviously
Dr.Diane McIntosh: we have to get permission. I can't just talk to
Dr.Diane McIntosh: anyone I want to. But that's why so early in
Dr.Diane McIntosh: the relationship, I started asking people, Who do you love?
Dr.Diane McIntosh: Who can you bring in here? Can you audiotape or
Dr.Diane McIntosh: videotape our discussion? Because I know your husband's worried about
Dr.Diane McIntosh: the medication that you're on to engage the patient on
Dr.Diane McIntosh: every level and help them to feel like, okay, this
Dr.Diane McIntosh: is my story. I'm Diane, the Navigator. You drive the
Dr.Diane McIntosh: ship and I want to help you to get through
Dr.Diane McIntosh: those rocky periods as quickly and swiftly and safely as possible.
Faydra Aldridge: This is one thing that I've never understood. If a
Faydra Aldridge: child or young person is diagnosed with type one diabetes,
Faydra Aldridge: they bring in the family to be able to practice
Faydra Aldridge: giving an injection. And yet with mental illness, there's this
Faydra Aldridge: hesitancy to bring in family members to be able to
Faydra Aldridge: allow that family member who loves and cares for that
Faydra Aldridge: person to be able to be a part of that journey.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: Yeah, well, it's just not the way I've ever practiced.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: I mean, obviously the agency belongs with my patient. They
Dr.Diane McIntosh: get to decide who they love and who they want
Dr.Diane McIntosh: as part of this. And I don't care who it is,
Dr.Diane McIntosh: everyone can be part of the discussion, but it has
Dr.Diane McIntosh: been a conundrum to me from the get go is
Dr.Diane McIntosh: why would we not talk to people who love this
Dr.Diane McIntosh: person and can help to support them? We know social
Dr.Diane McIntosh: support is the greatest protector of your mental health, so
Dr.Diane McIntosh: why wouldn't we want to be part of that whole solution?
Dr.Diane McIntosh: I don't know.
Faydra Aldridge: And one final question. If there's somebody who is paying
Faydra Aldridge: attention to this movement and is starting to listen to
Faydra Aldridge: some of those voices that are out there talking and
Faydra Aldridge: trying to get more people to join this bandwagon, what
Faydra Aldridge: would you like to say to them about the effects
Faydra Aldridge: and the benefits and the outcomes of using medication?
Dr.Diane McIntosh: I've always tried to practice medicine and to be a
Dr.Diane McIntosh: psychiatrist treating people as I would like to be treated
Dr.Diane McIntosh: and of course, having children, how would I want my
Dr.Diane McIntosh: child to be treated? And it's heartbreaking to me that
Dr.Diane McIntosh: someone's child is making a choice not to take medication
Dr.Diane McIntosh: because they feel let down, because they haven't found the
Dr.Diane McIntosh: right treatment, because their side effects haven't been addressed, because
Dr.Diane McIntosh: they're struggling with addiction. And the reason it breaks my
Dr.Diane McIntosh: heart is because I know the impact it has on
Dr.Diane McIntosh: their whole life. These symptoms are not benign. Having auditory hallucinations,
Dr.Diane McIntosh: experiencing delusions every day are not benign. More importantly, is
Dr.Diane McIntosh: the risk that happens to that individual, their risk of suicide,
Dr.Diane McIntosh: the risk to their relationship. Those are my greatest concerns
Dr.Diane McIntosh: when symptoms go untreated. And it just feels like a
Dr.Diane McIntosh: real failure of our system, that this has become a
Dr.Diane McIntosh: movement that's been able to gather some steam.
Faydra Aldridge: Dr. McIntosh, thank you so much for being here today.
Faydra Aldridge: We always learn so much from you. So thanks for
Faydra Aldridge: being here.
Dr.Diane McIntosh: Thank you, Faydra. It was my pleasure.
Faydra Aldridge: And a huge thanks to you, our audience, for joining
Faydra Aldridge: us for this episode. Together, we can change the narrative
Faydra Aldridge: around mental illnesses like schizophrenia and end the many myths
Faydra Aldridge: and stereotypes that still exist today. If you have any
Faydra Aldridge: questions or any comments, tweet us at. B.S. Schizophrenia. And
Faydra Aldridge: to get our latest episode, be sure to follow on
Faydra Aldridge: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere you listen to podcasts. And
Faydra Aldridge: if you want to hear more about how schizophrenia affects families,
Faydra Aldridge: we have another podcast for you three moms from the
Faydra Aldridge: East Coast, West Coast and Middle America. Host a unique
Faydra Aldridge: podcast about mental illness. Each host has an adult son
Faydra Aldridge: with schizophrenia, and they've written acclaimed books about their journeys.
Faydra Aldridge: They say it like it is with the goal of
Faydra Aldridge: helping families learn more about serious mental illnesses. Listen to schizophrenia.
Faydra Aldridge: Three Moms in the trenches wherever you get your podcasts.
Faydra Aldridge: We hope you join us next episode again. Talk to
Faydra Aldridge: you soon.
Narrator: This podcast is brought to you by the B.C. Schizophrenia
Narrator: Society and the BC Partners for Mental Health and Substance
Narrator: Use information. Where a group of non-profit agencies providing good
Narrator: quality information to help individuals and families maintain or improve
Narrator: their mental well-being. ABC Partners Members are Anxiety Canada, B.C.
Narrator: Schizophrenia Society, Canadian Institute for Substance Use Research, Canadian Mental
Narrator: Health Association's B.C. Division Family Smart. Jessie's Legacy. The North
Narrator: Shore Family Services Program and Mood Disorders Association of B.C.,
Narrator: a branch of Lookout, Housing and Health Society. The B.C.
Narrator: partners are funded and stewarded by B.C. Mental Health and
Narrator: Substance Use Services, an agency of the Provincial Health Services Authority.
Narrator: For more information, visit here to help. B.C.ca .