Speaker 1: Pushkin. This is Talk Easy. I'm Sam Fragoso. Welcome to
Speaker 1: the show today. I'm joined by actor Kei Hoi Kwan.
Speaker 1: He began acting back in nineteen eighty three in the
Speaker 1: film Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, directed by
Speaker 1: the great Steven Spielberg. He was twelve years old at
Speaker 1: the time of casting, and when the movie was released
Speaker 1: the next year year in nineteen eighty four, Key was
Speaker 1: praised for his betrayal of Short Round, the young Chinese
Speaker 1: sidekick to Harrison Ford's titular archaeologist. It was, by all accounts,
Speaker 1: a momentous start to a career, especially one so young,
Speaker 1: But in the years to follow, Quan found it increasingly
Speaker 1: difficult to find work as a Chinese American actor. The
Speaker 1: systemic racism embedded in Hollywood's casting system didn't help, although,
Speaker 1: as you'll hear, Key is not one to lay blame
Speaker 1: on the industry at large. Thankfully, eventually the movies caught
Speaker 1: up to Kuan's talents. After nearly two decades of working
Speaker 1: behind the camera as an assistant director and stunt coordinator,
Speaker 1: he found his light once more in the film Everything Everywhere,
Speaker 1: All at Once, directed by the Daniels. In it, he
Speaker 1: plays Waymand, the patriarch of a Chinese American immigrant family
Speaker 1: trying to heal some intergenerational trauma. I should add that
Speaker 1: that's probably the simplest description of a film that constantly
Speaker 1: defies long lines. In case you haven't seen it yet,
Speaker 1: here's a bit from the trailer From Everything Everywhere, All
Speaker 1: at Once. I'm not a husband, I'm an emotion if
Speaker 1: from an universe. I'm here because we need your help.
Speaker 1: Very busy today, it's some time to help you across
Speaker 1: the multiverse. I've seen thousands of evidence. You can access
Speaker 1: all of the memories, their emotions, even this skills. There's
Speaker 1: a great evil spreading to what the many verses and
Speaker 1: you maybe you'll only chance of stopping it. So many
Speaker 1: for you, I am really good. I don't believe you,
Speaker 1: Alice really. That was from Everything Everywhere, All at Once,
Speaker 1: which is now available to stream on Showtime, Amazon, or
Speaker 1: wherever you rent your movies. The film has received a
Speaker 1: whole lot of attention this Award season, in large part
Speaker 1: because of a Quand's soulful and stirring performance. Just over
Speaker 1: the past week, he won Best Supporting Actor at this
Speaker 1: year's and battled Golden Globes, delivering an acceptance speech that
Speaker 1: made just about everyone cry. And there's a reason for
Speaker 1: those tears, both from within him and the audience watching.
Speaker 1: I think you'll understand that reason by the end of
Speaker 1: this conversation. Over the last few months, Key, with his
Speaker 1: kind of infectious yish charm, has given a lot of interviews.
Speaker 1: But I want to make the same assurance Key gave
Speaker 1: me after finishing this one, which is that even if
Speaker 1: you know some of his remarkable story, you haven't quite
Speaker 1: heard it like this, and that's because Key has never
Speaker 1: told it the way he does in this conversation. And
Speaker 1: so with that, I want to thank Key for coming
Speaker 1: on Talk Easy and sharing his life with us. This
Speaker 1: is an incredibly special episode for me, for my family,
Speaker 1: and for the family here at the show, and I
Speaker 1: hope you love listening to it as much as we
Speaker 1: loved putting it together. And with that, here is the
Speaker 1: one and only Key Hoi kwan keihik quan. Nice to
Speaker 1: meet you, Nice to meet you, Sam. Thank you for
Speaker 1: having me. How are you feeling? I feel amazing. Really,
Speaker 1: there's something good happened this year, or a lot of
Speaker 1: things going on, or what you know, ever since a
Speaker 1: movie came out O that, right, since I've been on
Speaker 1: a high higher than Cloud nine. That's been. It's been.
Speaker 1: It's been incredible. You know. The film Everything Everywhere, all
Speaker 1: at Once, came out last March. I believe it's been
Speaker 1: almost a year since people have begun to see it. Obviously,
Speaker 1: since then, almost everyone I know has seen this movie.
Speaker 1: And I'm curious, when you watch the film now, or
Speaker 1: even when you think of the film now in your
Speaker 1: work in it has its meaning changed for you in
Speaker 1: the last year. Well, I haven't seen it that much.
Speaker 1: I've seen it four times now, and every time I
Speaker 1: think about this movie, I have a range of emotions. Well,
Speaker 1: let's go to the range. Well, know, first of all,
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful for the movie because I know, you know,
Speaker 1: this was a role that I waited more than thirty
Speaker 1: years for. It was the script that I waited just
Speaker 1: as long to read. Never think that I would have
Speaker 1: this incredible opportunity to be gifted this amazing role. I'm
Speaker 1: so proud of it. And I remember vividly the time
Speaker 1: we spent in Simi Valley making this movie at the
Speaker 1: laundry mat. Yeah, laundry mat was on location. The movie
Speaker 1: Saw Universe was shot in downtown Los Angeles, but the
Speaker 1: majority of the movie was in this abandoned building in
Speaker 1: Semi Valley, and it would scheduled for thirty eight days
Speaker 1: over eight weeks, over eight weeks, and then we shot
Speaker 1: thirty seven days with one day left to go, and
Speaker 1: then we got shot down for the pandemic. This was
Speaker 1: almost to the day three years ago. You know, when
Speaker 1: our movie came out in March, I was just hoping
Speaker 1: that people would come out and see it and allow
Speaker 1: us to make our money back so Age twenty four
Speaker 1: wouldn't lose their money, so that they would green light
Speaker 1: more movies like this, more stories like this that feature
Speaker 1: an Asian American family and everything that has happened the
Speaker 1: whole you know, reception that you know, people resonating with
Speaker 1: our movie is beyond anything we can ever imagine, and
Speaker 1: it's just been a wonderful ride so far. You've said
Speaker 1: in many interviews that the role of women is one
Speaker 1: you don't think you could have played ten or fifteen
Speaker 1: years ago. You said, I needed all that life experience
Speaker 1: to give me the nuance and the depth to give
Speaker 1: me the different versions of him, and so I wanted
Speaker 1: to unpack some of that life experience you were talking
Speaker 1: about in Obviously, I'm so scared, because you know I've
Speaker 1: been I've been quite emotional every time I do an
Speaker 1: interview of talking about my journey. I'm talking about my
Speaker 1: having this amazing sack can act. Why don't we start
Speaker 1: at the beginning if you don't mind, yes, please. You're
Speaker 1: born in Saigon in nineteen seventy one, the seventh of
Speaker 1: nine children, in a household where you had to sit
Speaker 1: at the kiddie table because there was overflow from your
Speaker 1: large family. You said early on that your parents instill
Speaker 1: the new, very traditional Chinese family values. What did that
Speaker 1: look and sound like growing up in Vietnam? Well, you know,
Speaker 1: just because of how many kids my parents had. There
Speaker 1: was nine of us, so there was constantly screaming, fighting laughters.
Speaker 1: We were always fighting for attention. It was a very
Speaker 1: very loving family. My father loves his children and so
Speaker 1: does my mom, and they work really hard to provide
Speaker 1: for all of us. And this was you know, this
Speaker 1: was in Vietnam, in Saigon, it used to be called Saigon,
Speaker 1: I was called Jiming City. And life was going great
Speaker 1: until the war came and everything changed. So that's in
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight, with the fall of Saigon, this robust
Speaker 1: family of yours has to split up into two factions.
Speaker 1: What happens then we made two attempts to leave Vietnam.
Speaker 1: The first attempt it failed and it cost my parents
Speaker 1: everything they had. It's not cheap to get all of
Speaker 1: us out. Then when that failed, my parents decided that
Speaker 1: maybe we would have a better opportunity if we were
Speaker 1: to split up. So my mom took three of my
Speaker 1: siblings and she went to Malaysia. And when I say leave,
Speaker 1: it's like literally in the middle of a night in
Speaker 1: you secretly and try to be as quiet as possible
Speaker 1: to get on the boat and then that boat sails
Speaker 1: out to wherever you know you're planning to go. And
Speaker 1: that's what my mom did with three of my siblings.
Speaker 1: They went to Malaysia, and my father took six of
Speaker 1: us and we got on the boat and it was
Speaker 1: the biggest boat at that time. It had three thousand
Speaker 1: Vietnamese refugees. I don't remember Vivili, but what I do
Speaker 1: remember was I was very confused. I didn't understand why
Speaker 1: we had to leave because I was very comfortable at home,
Speaker 1: and I didn't understand at that age. I didn't have
Speaker 1: the maturity to grasp what my parents were trying to
Speaker 1: do for us. All I remember was that my little brother,
Speaker 1: who was my best friend and I was separated. I
Speaker 1: couldn't understand why we had to leave our beautiful home behind.
Speaker 1: I got on this boat and it was three thousand
Speaker 1: people and it was very, very crowded, and my father
Speaker 1: just you know, holding all of us together, and we
Speaker 1: were just trying to survive this journey to have a
Speaker 1: better future. That's what my dad would tell me when
Speaker 1: I was a kid, and he would also he would
Speaker 1: also come from me and assured me that up soon enough,
Speaker 1: I would be reunited with my mom, my brother, and
Speaker 1: my other sisters. And we were in Hong Kong. We
Speaker 1: landed there, and you know, the local government was trying
Speaker 1: to figure out what to do with us because there
Speaker 1: were so many of us, and they built this makeshift
Speaker 1: refugee camp to put us all in while they were
Speaker 1: trying to work out with other countries to see if
Speaker 1: they would take some of us. And we were in
Speaker 1: Hong Kong and a refugee camp for an entire year
Speaker 1: and not allowed to go out within you know, the
Speaker 1: parameters of those fences and to the graaciers of the
Speaker 1: American government at that time. You know, they granted us,
Speaker 1: you know, political asylum. And I got on a plane
Speaker 1: for the first time in my life. And when I landed,
Speaker 1: there was my mom and my and my siphlings were
Speaker 1: waiting for us at the airport at lax Yeah, and
Speaker 1: always one of the always one of the greatest days
Speaker 1: in my life. And the nine of us were together
Speaker 1: finally and that was that was in nineteen seventy nine,
Speaker 1: and we came to this country with nothing. My parents
Speaker 1: were heavily in debt because of leaving Vietnam. Leaving Vietnam
Speaker 1: and just how much it cost to get us on
Speaker 1: that boat and we started from scratch. I mean it
Speaker 1: was I think it was definitely easier for me and
Speaker 1: my younger sister and my younger brother to assimilar to
Speaker 1: adapt to this new life. But I could not imagine
Speaker 1: what it was like for my parents. And that's why
Speaker 1: I always think they are the heroes. I'm sure it
Speaker 1: was tough for them because of the language barrier, and
Speaker 1: also it was a full land to them at that time.
Speaker 1: I haven't talked about this for thirty eight years. So
Speaker 1: whatever feelings that I had built emotions, I buried them
Speaker 1: for decades. And it's bringing back a lot of memories,
Speaker 1: some happy memories and also some painful ones as well too.
Speaker 1: And what's incredible about our movie is that it is
Speaker 1: about the immigrant journey then the intergenerational trauma. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: you mentioned how talking about this period brings up both
Speaker 1: painful and happy memories for you. I'm wondering when your
Speaker 1: family moves into that house in Chinatown, what are some
Speaker 1: of the happy images that come to mind? Yeah. I
Speaker 1: remember on the weekends, after dinner, my mom would make
Speaker 1: all these wonderful food and just because of how many
Speaker 1: of us, so whatever she cooks was never fast enough,
Speaker 1: like you know what. You know, she would cook one
Speaker 1: dish and whip she would put on the table and
Speaker 1: then in two seconds it would be gone. Those are
Speaker 1: the happy memories. And then after dinner, you know, my
Speaker 1: dad would cut up like either a watermelon, fruit or
Speaker 1: angle or strawberries whatever, and they would have that, and
Speaker 1: then we would crowd around this thirteen inch television and
Speaker 1: you know, we didn't have much, We didn't have cable
Speaker 1: or anything, so whatever the local video store was renting out,
Speaker 1: and that's what we would watch, and was mostly movies
Speaker 1: from Hong Kong television shows like TVB dramas, soap propers
Speaker 1: and Jackie Chan movies, Chowian Fat movies, and we would
Speaker 1: just sit around that TV and watch and laugh and
Speaker 1: really enjoy those family time. I still remember the street
Speaker 1: we used to live in, one of first immigrators in Chinatown,
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. It's on a street called Grant Avenue, and
Speaker 1: it was just this little house that has four bedrooms,
Speaker 1: and it was one of the happiest memories I have
Speaker 1: as a child. Did watching those films and the performers
Speaker 1: in them, did it awaken something inside of you? No, no,
Speaker 1: I was just I was just watching as an audience member.
Speaker 1: Never thought that I would become an actor. I was
Speaker 1: just very entertained by those movies. Like you said earlier,
Speaker 1: you know, I grew up in a very traditional family
Speaker 1: value with Chinese values, and and my parents wanted me
Speaker 1: to be, you know, a doctor. It's very it's very stereotypical.
Speaker 1: You know, either doctor, want accountant or a lawyer, and
Speaker 1: so I never thought that I would go down the
Speaker 1: road of being an actor. The road was improbable somehow
Speaker 1: Even more improbable is the story of you landing Indiana Jones.
Speaker 1: This nineteen eighty three. You're twelve years old at a
Speaker 1: historic Chinatown public school called Casteller Elementary, and it's there
Speaker 1: that a casting director for Indiana Jones was holding open
Speaker 1: auditions at the school. What happens next? I remember I
Speaker 1: was behind the camera next to the casting director watching
Speaker 1: all of this unfold. As my brother was reading lines
Speaker 1: off off of sides, and as he was auditioning, I
Speaker 1: was like giving him notes behind the camera. I would say, David,
Speaker 1: train this right this day, would try that. You're directing him? Yeah?
Speaker 1: How did he like that? He was fine with it,
Speaker 1: he enjoyed it. Towards the end of the audition, the
Speaker 1: casting director saw me and noticed me and says, you know, Keith,
Speaker 1: would you like to try you know? And I didn't
Speaker 1: think much of it. I didn't even know what it
Speaker 1: was for, really, but I just thought it seemed fun,
Speaker 1: So I said, yeah, sure, and he gave me the sides,
Speaker 1: and I remember doing horribly. My grasp of the English
Speaker 1: language at that time wasn't great. And then luckily the
Speaker 1: casting director was able to see past that and say, Key,
Speaker 1: you know, why didn't he put the sides down? Let's
Speaker 1: just talk. And I ended up chatting with her for
Speaker 1: ten to fifteen minutes, I believe, and that was it.
Speaker 1: Didn't think much of it. And then the next day
Speaker 1: we got a call and it was people from Steven
Speaker 1: Spielberg's office. They say, you know, we would love to
Speaker 1: see Key again. Can you come on this state and
Speaker 1: this time. And we didn't even have a car back then,
Speaker 1: my mom. It was through a translatora my mom didn't
Speaker 1: even speak English, so I was translator to Steven's office.
Speaker 1: Is says, they don't have a car to get to
Speaker 1: your office, and they says, don't worry. We was sent
Speaker 1: a car. So the following day they sent a car
Speaker 1: to pick my mom and I up. And you know,
Speaker 1: I told the story before how my mom thought it was.
Speaker 1: You know, it was a fancy meeting, and you know,
Speaker 1: she wore this like really fancy dress and she put
Speaker 1: me in this, you know, episode three piece suit and
Speaker 1: we were sitting on the sofa in the waiting area
Speaker 1: and that's when Stephen Spielberg came out and gave me
Speaker 1: a big hug. I remember him vividly He was kind,
Speaker 1: he was smiling, and it was very warm, and he said, Key,
Speaker 1: I want you to come back the next day, but
Speaker 1: were something comfortable And I go, okay, the three piece
Speaker 1: suit was too much. It was too much. It was
Speaker 1: really tight too. You know, I had a vest I
Speaker 1: couldn't breathe in that suit. Little gold chain, Yeah, with
Speaker 1: a little gold chain, hand out of this I hanging
Speaker 1: out of the side pocket. Yeah. And then you know,
Speaker 1: I went back the next day walking the room and
Speaker 1: there were Steven Spielberg, George Lucas, and Harrison Ford. I
Speaker 1: would never forget it. We spent an entire afternoon together.
Speaker 1: And what's incredible is I immigrated here in nineteen seventy
Speaker 1: nine when we had nothing, and as fate would have it,
Speaker 1: four years later, in nineteen eighty three. This is when
Speaker 1: that happened. And that's why, to this day, every time
Speaker 1: I either see that movie on television or when people
Speaker 1: talk about it, I'm just so happy because it's not
Speaker 1: only changed my life, it changed the lives of my family,
Speaker 1: and it gave me a purpose in life. I found
Speaker 1: what I wanted to do for the rest of my life,
Speaker 1: which was to be in front of camera and be
Speaker 1: an actor. You do this film, you play the character
Speaker 1: a short round. Once the film is released in nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty four, it's met with adoration from fans. The critics
Speaker 1: love it. In fact, in the New York Times, Vincent
Speaker 1: Canby wrote of your performance Key Who's first film, this
Speaker 1: is is a very good comic sidekick. Who, in moments
Speaker 1: of stress which come often sounds a little like Donald Duck.
Speaker 1: I love that. You know he's right, because I always
Speaker 1: I have such a crazy sounding voice, you know, it's
Speaker 1: so different. But yeah, yeah, Donald Duck. I can't agree.
Speaker 1: War just just thought i'd gift you that strange bit
Speaker 1: of you know what, I don't know what. I love
Speaker 1: Donald Duck. I love Mickey Morris. I love those you know,
Speaker 1: those were the cartoons that I watched when I was
Speaker 1: a kid growing up, So you're probably influenced by them.
Speaker 1: I'm sure in many ways I am. The point is
Speaker 1: the film is a huge success, and as a result,
Speaker 1: you're able to buy a house for your family with
Speaker 1: the earnings of the film and help pay off some
Speaker 1: of the debts your parents had a crude after leaving Vie. No,
Speaker 1: I have to ask you, as a thirteen year old
Speaker 1: buying a home for your parents. You know, like at thirteen,
Speaker 1: most kids, you know, they have math, homework. You had
Speaker 1: like a mortgage. I just wonder what did that What
Speaker 1: did that look like? Did that affect your relationship with
Speaker 1: your parents? Did it change your relationship to your siblings. No,
Speaker 1: That's what's so great about my parents and my family.
Speaker 1: They never really cared what I do. And even after
Speaker 1: coming off of Indiana Jones, such a big movie, I
Speaker 1: would go home and I would still sit at the
Speaker 1: kiddie table. Yeah, home you bought. Yeah, that was just
Speaker 1: the way things ran in our family. My parents are
Speaker 1: very very strict. But also what I wanted to talk
Speaker 1: about too, is you're absolutely right when that movie came out,
Speaker 1: it changed your life. And this is really to the
Speaker 1: generosity of Steven Spielbook and George Lucas. They didn't have
Speaker 1: to do a lot of the things that they did
Speaker 1: for me, but they did, and that's why I was
Speaker 1: able to buy a house and pay off in my parents'
Speaker 1: debt when the movie came out. And that's why, to
Speaker 1: this day, I'm so grateful for what they have done
Speaker 1: for me. And I didn't think much of it. All
Speaker 1: I remember was that we were able to move into
Speaker 1: a bigger and more comfortable home, we were able to
Speaker 1: buy a car, and just to see how happy my
Speaker 1: family was. That's what I wanted. And even to this
Speaker 1: day when I like coming back becoming an actor again
Speaker 1: and getting phone calls and FaceTime videos with my family
Speaker 1: and seeing how happy they are for me, that's what
Speaker 1: I want to see. That's what I always wanted. You know,
Speaker 1: that's what family is for. You know, whoever is capable
Speaker 1: should help each other. That's the value that my family
Speaker 1: taught me. That's beautiful. It really is. If we can
Speaker 1: take just ten percent of what you have in your heart,
Speaker 1: I think we'll do a little bit better. And the
Speaker 1: aftermath of buying the home, you start as Data and
Speaker 1: The Goonies, which was produced by Spielberg. From there, you said,
Speaker 1: I thought the road to acting would be easy, and
Speaker 1: of course it was anything but easy. Those next eight
Speaker 1: years would be increasingly difficult, landing bit parts in sci
Speaker 1: fi films and a sitcom with Elliott Gould called Together
Speaker 1: We Stand. But I want to talk about nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 1: You're twenty at this point, a decade removed from Indiana Jones,
Speaker 1: and it's then that you go on an audition for
Speaker 1: a no name, two line part as a Vietcong soldier.
Speaker 1: How did that go? You know? It was really interesting.
Speaker 1: My first audition for Stephen Spielberg was on the Waner
Speaker 1: Brother's lat. It was at his office at that time.
Speaker 1: Now was my first movie. Goonies was my second movie.
Speaker 1: Was also at Warner Brothers where we shot the majority
Speaker 1: of the movie. In nineteen ninety three. When I went
Speaker 1: in an audition for this role of Vicom with two lines,
Speaker 1: was also on the Warner Brother's lat. I walked in
Speaker 1: the room. There were thirty other Asian actors fighting for
Speaker 1: this little little role. I met with the casting director
Speaker 1: and she said, oh my god, key, you know we
Speaker 1: love you in Indiana Jones, we love you and Goonies,
Speaker 1: thank you for coming in. I saw in my audition
Speaker 1: and that was it. I went home. I waited an
Speaker 1: entire week from my agent to call me, thinking, oh,
Speaker 1: I have a real good chance of landing this role
Speaker 1: because the casting director knows who I am, she enjoys
Speaker 1: my work, so maybe she'll give me this role. And
Speaker 1: this was when I think it's been more than a
Speaker 1: year since I was employed. My agents never called me,
Speaker 1: so finally I couldn't wait any longer. I called him
Speaker 1: and I said, hey, did we hear back from that audition?
Speaker 1: And he says no, I'm so sorry. I think they
Speaker 1: went with somebody else. And I said, okay, wow. Oh.
Speaker 1: I was so disappointed, and I asked I did a
Speaker 1: follow up question. I said, is there anything else out there?
Speaker 1: Are there more auditions for me? And he says no,
Speaker 1: I saw a key, but I'll keep an eye out
Speaker 1: for you. If I have anything, i'll call you. Then
Speaker 1: he hung up the phone. It's all right. I held
Speaker 1: the phone in my head, sat there for an hour,
Speaker 1: did not move an inch. I don't know what I
Speaker 1: was thinking at that time. My mind was just everywhere,
Speaker 1: and I was so confused and lost because I was
Speaker 1: twenty three years old at that time, and I wasted
Speaker 1: an entire year just waiting for a phone call, and
Speaker 1: that moment, I didn't know where I was going. I
Speaker 1: didn't see a path for myself. It was a horrible feeling.
Speaker 1: And that was the first time, very very first time
Speaker 1: I had asked myself the question is it time to
Speaker 1: step away? And I didn't have an answer for that.
Speaker 1: I waited another year before I decided to do so,
Speaker 1: and I applied for USC Film School because I didn't
Speaker 1: want to leave this industry completely. But I can see
Speaker 1: clearly that if I were to not do something else,
Speaker 1: I would just waste my entire twenties. That was in
Speaker 1: nineteen nineties. For me. That was the first time I
Speaker 1: asked myself that question, is it time to step away?
Speaker 1: And luckily I applied for UC Film School. I got in,
Speaker 1: had a wonderful time, learned a lot, made numerous friends,
Speaker 1: and started working behind the camera, without thinking that one
Speaker 1: day I would be able to revisit this. I always
Speaker 1: feel like I feel like any therapy or something. You know.
Speaker 1: That's why every time I talk about it, I get
Speaker 1: a little bit emotional. But uh, and the only reason
Speaker 1: why I get emotional, it's because you know you don't
Speaker 1: You don't have to apologize. You don't not here at least,
Speaker 1: Thank you, Sam, Thank you you're so sweet. Trust me,
Speaker 1: you are not decide that owes an apology. I thought
Speaker 1: about it the last few months, and I don't blame anybody,
Speaker 1: you know. I just if I would have looked back
Speaker 1: and put a blame, I would put it on timing.
Speaker 1: The timing wasn't right. I was very lucky when I
Speaker 1: was a kid. It was just not the right time
Speaker 1: for me. Well, timing is a funny thing, and it's
Speaker 1: a central part of this movie. Roads Taken, not Taken,
Speaker 1: Fantasy has lived out, dreams deferred. It's very much central
Speaker 1: to everything everywhere, all at once. But I think to
Speaker 1: understand how you made the great work you made in
Speaker 1: that film, we have to understand the decisions you did
Speaker 1: make and the time that you had to make them.
Speaker 1: Because the ninety nine you graduate from USA Film's Call
Speaker 1: and you get a call from an old action director,
Speaker 1: choreographer friend of yours. Remember what he said, Yes, he said, Hey,
Speaker 1: I'm in Toronto working on this little movie. You just
Speaker 1: graduated from film school. Would you like to come and
Speaker 1: work for me? I packed, I got on a plane,
Speaker 1: I walked on set, and it was The X Men.
Speaker 1: It was the coolest thing ever. And that was the
Speaker 1: beginning of a beautiful relationship with koy Un for a
Speaker 1: number of years, who was able to take me under
Speaker 1: his wings. Taught me a lot about action, about how
Speaker 1: to look good on camera, doing action, the whole choreography
Speaker 1: of it. I knew martial arts, but I didn't understand
Speaker 1: the choreography aspect of it, and that's where I learned
Speaker 1: from Koy. It's very poetic and beautiful, and also it's
Speaker 1: like a dance sequence. It's like a ballet. There's a
Speaker 1: certain way to do it where it looks great on camera.
Speaker 1: What where is that? Well, you know, every punch, every kick,
Speaker 1: there's the only one angle to make it look good.
Speaker 1: And then also the whole creative aspect of choreography and
Speaker 1: making it so it doesn't seem boring. All of that.
Speaker 1: It's quite complicated, but yeah, that's how I was able
Speaker 1: to learn from him for many years. That's why if
Speaker 1: you look at everything everywhere, all at once, the different universes,
Speaker 1: you can see the influence of it with Alpha Weyman
Speaker 1: doing the fanny pack that came from chore un the
Speaker 1: movie Star universe that came entirely from working for Long
Speaker 1: Kawaii and his film In the Mood for Love. In
Speaker 1: The Mood for Love is one of my favorite movies
Speaker 1: of all time. I didn't work with him on that.
Speaker 1: I worked with him on two zero four to six,
Speaker 1: where I was the assistant director. I want to know
Speaker 1: about that time when you start working with him. Did
Speaker 1: it reignite some love of moviemaking? Yes, His movies are
Speaker 1: so beautiful and such a unique way of making movies.
Speaker 1: No other filmmakers is able to afford that luxury. You know,
Speaker 1: he makes a movie in like five years. He would
Speaker 1: write something and then he would gather his casting crew together,
Speaker 1: he would shoot it for a week, and then everybody
Speaker 1: would go do something else, and then they will continue
Speaker 1: that writing process. So it's very unique. And I learned
Speaker 1: the word perseverance from him. It's incredible. He never gives up.
Speaker 1: I remember when we were shooting two zero four six.
Speaker 1: Every year there's a deadline to submit your film for
Speaker 1: Can Film Festival, and the deadline would approach, and there
Speaker 1: was always that pressure on him to finish the movie.
Speaker 1: You know. Everybody asked him, you know, is it gonna
Speaker 1: Is it going to be done in time to go
Speaker 1: to Can this year? You know? And he would always
Speaker 1: say yes, yes, And then as the time gets closer
Speaker 1: and closer, it's obvious that we're not going to make
Speaker 1: that deadline, and then another year would pass, but he
Speaker 1: would will continue to work on it and it's a
Speaker 1: fascinating process. And I was with him the whole time.
Speaker 1: I was just so blown away by how calm he is,
Speaker 1: how collected he is, and he's so focus on giving
Speaker 1: into his vision. I'm making the best movie he can,
Speaker 1: no matter how much pressure from the outside. That was
Speaker 1: a great lesson for me after the break. More from
Speaker 1: actor Ki Hoi Kwan, emboldened by his doctorial style. You're
Speaker 1: clearly still part of the industry, still working in im
Speaker 1: you love, But through the two thousands you don't do
Speaker 1: much acting, And I'm curious financially was that challenging at times?
Speaker 1: Was it hard to make it through? I know you
Speaker 1: met your wife through won Cary. Was that a hard period?
Speaker 1: I was okay. I can't say I was struggling to
Speaker 1: put food on the table. I didn't comic cons that helped.
Speaker 1: First of all, I don't want people to think that
Speaker 1: I'm rich or well off or anything. I'm nowhere close.
Speaker 1: I was content working behind the camera, making a decent living.
Speaker 1: But there was just something missing all those years, and
Speaker 1: I didn't know what it was then. I mean, honestly,
Speaker 1: only now looking back in retrospect do I know what
Speaker 1: that was. But during that entire time, I was just
Speaker 1: working on projects and moving on like everybody. But if
Speaker 1: you would ask me, was I really happy? No, I
Speaker 1: don't think I was really happy, and I didn't understand
Speaker 1: what I was missing. And looking back at this time,
Speaker 1: you said once, when those opportunities dried up, I spent
Speaker 1: a long time trying to convince myself that I didn't
Speaker 1: like acting anymore. I was lying to myself. Why to
Speaker 1: do that, That's a great question. I guess it was
Speaker 1: a way for me to lessen the pain that I
Speaker 1: had to step away, and because I just didn't see
Speaker 1: a day that I would act again, so subconsciously, I
Speaker 1: guess I would feel better if I were able to
Speaker 1: convince myself that I don't like acting anymore. In fact,
Speaker 1: over the years, a lot of people have come up
Speaker 1: to me and say, are you the kid from Indiana Jones?
Speaker 1: You are outstanding? How come you're not acting anymore? And
Speaker 1: I never once told the truth. I always told them, well,
Speaker 1: you know, it's just because you know, I just want
Speaker 1: to do something else now. But the truth was, there
Speaker 1: was just no opportunities for me as an Asian actor
Speaker 1: at that time. I've said it enough times, I've lied
Speaker 1: to myself enough times were I actually believed it that
Speaker 1: must have been painful to hold that. It wasn't that
Speaker 1: bad if I didn't talk about it, you know, I
Speaker 1: never had to talk about it. When did you start
Speaker 1: telling yourself a different story? It was when Crazy Rich
Speaker 1: Asians came out. That was in It was that movie
Speaker 1: because it was the first time that I saw a
Speaker 1: wonderful movie, a very successful movie that featured an entire
Speaker 1: cast of Asian actors. And when I saw that movie,
Speaker 1: I so wish that I was up there with them.
Speaker 1: I really did want I was like, Wow, wouldn't it
Speaker 1: be great if I was one of those actors? And
Speaker 1: then it was then that that acting bug that I
Speaker 1: buried so deep started crawling towards the surface. I was
Speaker 1: forty eight, I was getting close to fifty, and I
Speaker 1: was wondering what I'd want to do for the next
Speaker 1: ten years from fifty to sixty. I wasn't getting anywhere
Speaker 1: with working behind the camera at that time. It was
Speaker 1: this thought of do I want to act again? Can
Speaker 1: I act again? Was more in the beginning, not if
Speaker 1: I want it, but can I active? You know, because
Speaker 1: I haven't done it more than twenty years. You and
Speaker 1: your wife would have these conversations. We would have these
Speaker 1: conversations at night. She says, are you sure about this?
Speaker 1: And my answer was always I'm not sure. I don't
Speaker 1: know if I can do this. And I don't even
Speaker 1: know if Hollywood wants me, because they did you know,
Speaker 1: they didn't want me before, you know, why would they
Speaker 1: want me now twenty something years later. But then every
Speaker 1: time we would have this conversation, and I didn't think
Speaker 1: it would go anywhere, I would just brush it away.
Speaker 1: But every time I brush it away, this voice in
Speaker 1: me comes back stronger and louder. And what does it say.
Speaker 1: It tells me that you should do this again. This
Speaker 1: is where you'd be. You will be so much happier,
Speaker 1: and every time it will come back louder. But there
Speaker 1: was just so much fear in me getting rejected again
Speaker 1: and again and again. You know, I'm not in my twenties,
Speaker 1: so getting rejected again and again when you're fifty years old,
Speaker 1: it's quite you know, it's quite sad. I mean, honestly,
Speaker 1: I didn't know if I was prepared for that. And
Speaker 1: that's what my wife was saying all along. Oh, you
Speaker 1: prepared to go in an audition again and again and
Speaker 1: get it rejected again and again. If you are, then
Speaker 1: go for it. Because she loves me so much and
Speaker 1: the last thing she wants is to see me struggle
Speaker 1: to suffer, so she didn't want that. There was a
Speaker 1: lot of fear, but then as I was approaching fifty,
Speaker 1: the fear of regret, when it finally overwhelmed any fear
Speaker 1: that I had of getting back into acting, That's when
Speaker 1: I decided I have to do this. And that was
Speaker 1: when I called my friend who was an agent, and
Speaker 1: I said, hey, can you come out. Can we have lunch?
Speaker 1: And we did and I told him I said I
Speaker 1: want to be an actor again. What do you think
Speaker 1: about that? He said, yeah, sounds good and I said great,
Speaker 1: but I don't have an agent. Will you be my agent?
Speaker 1: Practically begging him for a representation. And then I remember
Speaker 1: asking him do you think that I will be able
Speaker 1: to get a job as an actor after so many years?
Speaker 1: Do you think casting directors will want to see me?
Speaker 1: And he asked me, you know what do you want?
Speaker 1: And I said, well, I hope I can get a
Speaker 1: series regular role on a television show where the job
Speaker 1: is stable. Do you think that's possible? And he said,
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's hard to get a series regular.
Speaker 1: I don't know anything's possible, but you know you would
Speaker 1: have to. If you want to do this, you have
Speaker 1: to go all in. You can't put half a foot in.
Speaker 1: That's what he asked, Is it's all You ready to
Speaker 1: go all in? And I said, yes, I am, let's
Speaker 1: do this. Two weeks later, I got a phone call
Speaker 1: and he said, there's this little movie called Everything Everywhere,
Speaker 1: All at Once, and it stars Michelle Yo. That was
Speaker 1: the call. That night, I spoke with my wife and
Speaker 1: I said, do you think there's any chance I can
Speaker 1: be in this movie? And she's always very supportive, and
Speaker 1: she's always very optimistic. He says, anything can happen. Key,
Speaker 1: as long as you really want it, you'll get it.
Speaker 1: When that script came in, I read it for the
Speaker 1: very first time. I was so emotional. And when my
Speaker 1: wife saw how emotional I was and how much I
Speaker 1: love the script and how much I love this role,
Speaker 1: she says, Key, you are going to get this role.
Speaker 1: She said. Though she said huh, And I said, you're crazy.
Speaker 1: You don't know, Hollywood, There's no way I'm gonna get this.
Speaker 1: Says Key. You will work with Michelle Yo. A good
Speaker 1: thing you married her. You know, honestly, I've said this
Speaker 1: before for one of the big reasons why, you know,
Speaker 1: had had this world been offered to me before, and
Speaker 1: I don't think I could have played had I not
Speaker 1: met my wife. She is the real wayman in my world.
Speaker 1: Or She's kind, she's generous, she's just so loving, and
Speaker 1: she changed me. I'm a different person because of her.
Speaker 1: I am who I am now. It's because of her.
Speaker 1: And the only reason I can play waymen is because
Speaker 1: of her. Well, in fact, you do play women in
Speaker 1: this film. Her prediction comes true. Yeah, And sure enough
Speaker 1: you find yourself on the set of this movie. And
Speaker 1: I want to stick with something specific, which is that
Speaker 1: as you step onto the set, you notice the attention
Speaker 1: to detail created by the production designer and the costume designer,
Speaker 1: And I wonder what those details, After all you've been through,
Speaker 1: what those details signified to you. When I walked on
Speaker 1: set the first time, the first thing I noticed were
Speaker 1: those hard working production assistance that greeted me, that helped
Speaker 1: the actors get to the set. Because I worked behind
Speaker 1: the camera for so long, all those wonderful and talented
Speaker 1: crew that worked so hard to make everything happen for us.
Speaker 1: Before that first shot, I remember the placement of the camera.
Speaker 1: I stood behind the camera for many, many years, and
Speaker 1: that first time I stepped in front of that camera
Speaker 1: after so long, it felt amazing. I felt like I
Speaker 1: was a kid again. I felt alive. It's a very
Speaker 1: special feeling. And the wayman's outfit and the laundromat. That's
Speaker 1: a great outfit, isn't it, And the fanny pack and
Speaker 1: a little piggy that's hanging off of it. Did it
Speaker 1: feel familiar to you? Yes. In fact, when I was
Speaker 1: trying on different outfits when we did the Woodwill fittings,
Speaker 1: it was one particular shirt that was hanging off the rack.
Speaker 1: I looked at it and there was a shirt that
Speaker 1: my father would wear. In fact, the fabric, the color,
Speaker 1: everything about it felt so familiar. And I asked our
Speaker 1: costume designed to Shoreline, said where did you buy this?
Speaker 1: And she said Chinatown, Los Angeles, And that's where my
Speaker 1: father used to shop. Forty years later, forty years later,
Speaker 1: putting that Awardio bond for the first time and looking
Speaker 1: at myself in the mirror, I think there was a
Speaker 1: moment in there that I go wow, I looked like
Speaker 1: my dad I must have been something. It was. My
Speaker 1: father passed away in two thousand and one, so he
Speaker 1: was really happy for me when I got a Temple
Speaker 1: of Doom. But then you know, later on, I'm sure
Speaker 1: he saw me struggle as an actor, and I just
Speaker 1: I wish you can see me now see our movie.
Speaker 1: It will be incredible. I think he would be very,
Speaker 1: very proud. Yeah, I think that's right. Although he can't,
Speaker 1: we can. And as we leave, I thought, um, perhaps
Speaker 1: we'd sit with a scene together and talk about it. Okay,
Speaker 1: what do you think? Which scene do you have in mind?
Speaker 1: I have one. I'm going to try to set this up,
Speaker 1: but this movie defies loglines at every turn. This is
Speaker 1: a key delivering an impassioned plea. I do not mean
Speaker 1: for that to rhyme for kindness, namely to his wife
Speaker 1: played by Michelle Yo. As things are falling apart across
Speaker 1: the multiverse, please please, can we just stop fighting it?
Speaker 1: Shill goal just see and TWN call the shug. I'm gone.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of trenches, said one mean by you
Speaker 1: know what, don't get yourself. I know you're fighting because
Speaker 1: you're scared and confused. I'm confused down all day I
Speaker 1: don't know where the heck is going on, but somehow
Speaker 1: it feels like it's all my fault. I don't say
Speaker 1: kind of sitting how the emen I'm pussing your attention.
Speaker 1: I should be you sho you jos with the same
Speaker 1: trenches that I have on h M. It's the only
Speaker 1: thing I do know is that we have to be kind. M.
Speaker 1: Please be kind, especially what we don't know what's going on.
Speaker 1: We'll need your hand. If we see your full swimming
Speaker 1: or your heigh temple soup to, someone will change and
Speaker 1: each one and function. Hey, alt bagel, you can still
Speaker 1: turn around and avoid all this. Please be kind. I
Speaker 1: love that scene. I love the music. Some Luck did
Speaker 1: such an amazing job with the score, and it's such
Speaker 1: a beautifully written scene by the Daniels. I remember reading
Speaker 1: that script and that that's the part when I cry
Speaker 1: the most. And it was also the scene that that
Speaker 1: gave me the most pressure when we were shooting it.
Speaker 1: I remember that day well, where it's a big scene
Speaker 1: and they got these two huge wind machine was loud,
Speaker 1: confetting was all over the place. There were there were
Speaker 1: a ton of background actors and the entire cast was there,
Speaker 1: and I was off to the side, just trying to
Speaker 1: stay in that in that mindset, and I was so
Speaker 1: afraid that I would not be able to go there
Speaker 1: emotionally when the camera rose. But then, you know, I
Speaker 1: think this is the credit to how beautifully written that
Speaker 1: speech is. When I uttered that first line, I could
Speaker 1: not help myself. Tears just started streaming down my face.
Speaker 1: We did two takes of that, and afterwards, as they
Speaker 1: wrapped it up and set up the next shot, I
Speaker 1: was still crying. I was off to the side. I
Speaker 1: was crying uncontrollably, and dan Quan, one of our directors,
Speaker 1: saw me, came over and gave me a big hug
Speaker 1: and made a joke and pulled me out of it.
Speaker 1: Why do you think you're crying so much? The message,
Speaker 1: the kindness, I think that's what the woan needs with
Speaker 1: everything that's going on in the past three years. When
Speaker 1: we were shooting it, this was pre pandemic, but we
Speaker 1: live in such a cruel world and I just want
Speaker 1: everybody to be happy and to be kind to one
Speaker 1: another and to have empathy. When we were watching that scene,
Speaker 1: just now seeing you jump across the multiverse and your
Speaker 1: three characters in it, I couldn't help but think of
Speaker 1: this beautiful description of your performance, which comes from Bilga
Speaker 1: Iberi and Vulture. This is what he wrote. The picture
Speaker 1: bears the hallmarks of Kuan's many lives, Hong Kong action.
Speaker 1: The kind un helped pioneer melancholy lyricism as perfected by Wong,
Speaker 1: and sci fi fantasy that builds towards cathartic, unifying uplift,
Speaker 1: which one might call pulling a Spielberg. The film also
Speaker 1: channels something deeper, a sense of stifled potential unlocked. I
Speaker 1: keep coming back to that passage because he pinpoints the
Speaker 1: triptych you and bodies so perfectly that you could have
Speaker 1: only embodied after living the life you've led. But it's
Speaker 1: that line, a sense of stifled potential unlocked, that stayed
Speaker 1: with me. You know, I wasn't brought up by my
Speaker 1: parents to put blames or you know, when things don't
Speaker 1: go right, if things don't go the way you want.
Speaker 1: I was taught that, well then you need to walk harder.
Speaker 1: It's nobody fault and that yeah, I mean, it's so
Speaker 1: ingrained in me. I can't think any other way. All
Speaker 1: I can say is that all of this is happening now,
Speaker 1: and I'm really grateful to be here. If you ask me,
Speaker 1: could I have done anything different? No, I think for
Speaker 1: this role to exist, I think everything has to happen
Speaker 1: the way it did in order for this moment to arrive.
Speaker 1: And I'm okay with that. I'm here. I'm really happy.
Speaker 1: I'm in a good place. And over the past few months,
Speaker 1: so many people have come up to me and told
Speaker 1: me that they love our movie. They really enjoy it.
Speaker 1: It changed their life and they start crying in front
Speaker 1: of me. That's the most beautiful thing. That's why I
Speaker 1: love a movie so much. It's just hopefully, you know,
Speaker 1: if we can play a little, little, tiny role in
Speaker 1: helping this role to be a better place, everything is
Speaker 1: worth it. Yeah, this quote, I really like you said.
Speaker 1: Over the years, met a lot of Asian talent now
Speaker 1: working in Hollywood. They always thank me and say, man,
Speaker 1: it was so great to see you up there on
Speaker 1: the screen because I was able to see myself. Thank
Speaker 1: you for paving the way for us to be here.
Speaker 1: And of course it's really interesting because they've paved the
Speaker 1: way for my return. And this image is so vivid
Speaker 1: because it feels like a baton being passed in a
Speaker 1: race that you began back in nineteen eighty four. That's beautiful, Sam,
Speaker 1: And now in twenty twenty three, you were being asked
Speaker 1: to finish the race. Well, I hope the race is
Speaker 1: not finished yet, meaning that you know, we get to
Speaker 1: keep doing this. Yeah, you put it so beautifully. I
Speaker 1: don't know how I can act to that. Well does
Speaker 1: it feel like that to you? Do you see it
Speaker 1: in those terms? And what does it mean if you do?
Speaker 1: First of all, that's why representation matters. And if I
Speaker 1: can help a little kid out there, a little Asian kid,
Speaker 1: to be fired and to believe that he can do
Speaker 1: anything he wants in life, then I've done my job.
Speaker 1: For the longest time. I just didn't think that all
Speaker 1: of this would be possible. So all the people that
Speaker 1: have done it for the last twenty years gave me
Speaker 1: courage to do this again. And if my story can
Speaker 1: somehow help the people who have given up their dreams
Speaker 1: or who didn't think their life could be better, if
Speaker 1: I can inspire them to think differently, to actiferently, then
Speaker 1: that would be incredible. So the dream, in many ways
Speaker 1: the one that began back on the set of Indiana Jones,
Speaker 1: It's alive once more. Yes, yeah, it's great. Well, then
Speaker 1: I only have really one question left, which is that
Speaker 1: every year on your birthday in August, you make a
Speaker 1: wish for something. But I've been told that this past year,
Speaker 1: when you turn fifty one, that you didn't wish for anything.
Speaker 1: Why was that my wish came true? This movie have
Speaker 1: given me so so so much, and I just felt
Speaker 1: that if I would have wished for anything more, I
Speaker 1: would be too greedy. I've already gotten this unbelievable second
Speaker 1: act as an actor. It's put me in a great place.
Speaker 1: What else can I ask for? You keep talking about
Speaker 1: the second act? Does that old quote Fitzgerald has that
Speaker 1: there are no second acts in American life? But I
Speaker 1: think he was a smart guy, but wrong on this one.
Speaker 1: I hate to say it. Thank you was wrong on
Speaker 1: this one. And since you didn't make a wish for
Speaker 1: your birthday, it still technically means that you have one left,
Speaker 1: and so I'm going to do it for you. I
Speaker 1: wish you everything you've earned and so much more, and
Speaker 1: I hope I wish to see you doing the thing
Speaker 1: you've always been meant to do. Thank you, Sam, thank
Speaker 1: you and you know what, if I would to have
Speaker 1: one wish, I would wish that everybody's wishes come true
Speaker 1: as he came true for me. Everybody deserves it, mister Kwan,
Speaker 1: thank you for sitting with me. Thank you Sam, Thank
Speaker 1: you you are an incredible Uh. This is I had
Speaker 1: the most fun. This is the most fun. You know what.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm so impressed by how much you know
Speaker 1: before I even sat down. And it's like you talked
Speaker 1: about stuff that the amount of research, the amount of
Speaker 1: stuff that you scour to do this interview is very,
Speaker 1: very impressive. We do it no other way. I wish
Speaker 1: you luck and I feel like there's some good news coming.
Speaker 1: So let's let's just let's let's just let's hope for that.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Sam, Thank you until next time. And that's
Speaker 1: our show. If you enjoy today's episode, be sure to
Speaker 1: give us five stars on Spotify, Apple, wherever you do
Speaker 1: your listening, reviewing the program on these platforms, sharing it
Speaker 1: with friends. It's still the best way for new listeners
Speaker 1: to find the show. I want to give us special
Speaker 1: thanks this week to Chase Laner and the team at
Speaker 1: Narrative PR. Of course, the good people at Age twenty
Speaker 1: four and last but not least, the One and Only
Speaker 1: Key Hoi Kwan. Everything Everywhere, All at Once, is now
Speaker 1: available to stream. I hope you do so. To find
Speaker 1: out more about Key and his work, visit our show
Speaker 1: notes at talk easypod dot com. If you enjoy today's conversation,
Speaker 1: I'd recommend our episodes with Jonathan Majors, Kate Blanchette, Pedro,
Speaker 1: Pascal Hero, Marai, Tessa Thompson, Kamil Nanjianni, Ethan Hawk and
Speaker 1: Claire Ford. To hear those in more Pushkin Podcasts listen
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you
Speaker 1: like to listen. You can also follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram,
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Speaker 1: As always, the show would not be possible without our
Speaker 1: incredible team. Talk Easy is produced by Caroline Reebok. Our
Speaker 1: executive producer is Jennick Sobravo. Our associate producer is Caitlin Dryden.
Speaker 1: Today's talk was edited by Clarisse Givara and mixed by
Speaker 1: Andrew Vastola. It was taped at iHeartMedia here in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: Our assistant editor is Lindsay Ellis. Our music is by
Speaker 1: Dylan Peck, illustrations by Krisha Chanoy, photographs by Julius Chow,
Speaker 1: Video and graphics by Ian Chang, Eric gabrazach, Ian Jones,
Speaker 1: Ethan Seneca and Leila Register. Special thanks to Patrice Lee,
Speaker 1: Kylin Ung and Pauline as Suarez. That'd also like to
Speaker 1: thank our team at Pushkin Industries, Justin Richmond, Julia Barton,
Speaker 1: John Schnars, Karrie Brodie, David Glover, Heather Faine, Mia LaBelle,
Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, Nicole Morano, Mankie Taylor, Morgan Rattner, Jordan McMillan,
Speaker 1: Isabella Navarrez, Mechanic, Carli Mcgleiori, Jason Gambrell, Malcolm Gladwell, and
Speaker 1: Jacob Weisberg. I'm San Fragoso. Thank you for listening to
Speaker 1: Talk Easy. I'll see you back here next Sunday with
Speaker 1: a new episode. Until then, stay safe and so on.