Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,
Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big
Speaker 1: changes and transitions about twenties and what they mean for
Speaker 1: our psychology. Hi. Everyone, new listeners, old news listeners, friends, strangers, exes, feelings.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the podcast and to this week's topic of discussion,
Speaker 1: which is the breakup. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the breakup
Speaker 1: such a big part of our lives, such a big
Speaker 1: part about twenties, you know, when I think the majority
Speaker 1: of us experience our first type of real and serious heartbreak,
Speaker 1: and you know, the breakups and the relationships we have
Speaker 1: in our twenties are just going to impact us way
Speaker 1: down the line. So I thought we should finally discuss it.
Speaker 1: This is going to be a pretty big episode, I think,
Speaker 1: a hard episode, a sad episode, but also one of
Speaker 1: healing and thriving, getting through your heartbreak and hopefully coming
Speaker 1: out of it as a better person. And if you're
Speaker 1: here and listening, I'm sending you a lot of love
Speaker 1: and support because I'm guessing that you're listening for a reason,
Speaker 1: most likely because you're going through this right now and
Speaker 1: we've all been there in the midst of a breakup
Speaker 1: where the grief just feels overwhelming. So hopefully what we
Speaker 1: talk about today we'll offer you some guidance or at
Speaker 1: least a sense of solace that you're not in it alone,
Speaker 1: that you're not the first one to go through this.
Speaker 1: And you know, time passes. That's the beautiful thing about time.
Speaker 1: It always keeps moving forward and you will as well.
Speaker 1: That sounds so happy, but I hope you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. So I have been working writing, replanning, reworking,
Speaker 1: and thinking about this episode for over a year. In fact,
Speaker 1: when I first began this podcast, it was one of
Speaker 1: the main things, the main topics that I really wanted
Speaker 1: to get around to discussing. But every time I've revisited
Speaker 1: the subject, I just felt that I couldn't. I was
Speaker 1: at a place where I could objectively view heartbreak and
Speaker 1: a break up and not feel like I was still
Speaker 1: in one myself. Basically, I wasn't sure if I could
Speaker 1: recall this from a wise place or not cry. And
Speaker 1: you know, this is a really vulnerable topic. And I
Speaker 1: know that you know, friends and family are probably listening
Speaker 1: to this, which is great hello, But yeah, safe space
Speaker 1: to share, I feel like, and to link up with
Speaker 1: the people who are in the same place as you,
Speaker 1: and I think now I can now I can all
Speaker 1: this episode. I believe more on that later, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm in a wiser place about it, so I was like,
Speaker 1: let's give it a crack. Actually a bit of podcast history.
Speaker 1: I actually began this podcast after a pretty serious breakup
Speaker 1: I went through last year with Yeah, with the guy
Speaker 1: I was seeing at the time who Yeah, with this person.
Speaker 1: I went through a breakup with them, and I was
Speaker 1: at a really low place in terms of my self esteem,
Speaker 1: keeping myself occupied with all of my free time I
Speaker 1: had because I wasn't with this person anymore, and you know,
Speaker 1: recreating myself how I saw myself. And this podcast was
Speaker 1: just such a savior for me to heal and grow
Speaker 1: as a person, as a person that was beyond them,
Speaker 1: that was no longer attached to them. So I am
Speaker 1: very grateful to this podcast, the people who have listened,
Speaker 1: and how much it's grown out of that vision I
Speaker 1: had for it initially, and it's helped me so massively
Speaker 1: and it's just like unbelievable what it's become. So thank
Speaker 1: you to those who have sup haarded me. I really
Speaker 1: appreciate it. So I truly believe that there is a
Speaker 1: certain reverence to being heartbroken, to building yourself back up
Speaker 1: from such a low point where you have lost someone
Speaker 1: you cared for so deeply. There's something spiritual about the
Speaker 1: process of feeling emotions so intensely and being able to
Speaker 1: adjust to them and move forward. It's a significant grieving
Speaker 1: process that I can imagine many of you are currently in.
Speaker 1: I think I also went through a period. I don't
Speaker 1: think I know I went through a period of that
Speaker 1: recently as well, and though I probably wouldn't call it
Speaker 1: a breakup, it certainly felt that way and it still
Speaker 1: really hurts. There are times when I missed this person
Speaker 1: really intensely, and I wish I could tell them about
Speaker 1: the things I see and message them about things that
Speaker 1: remind me of them. And we'll go through how you
Speaker 1: can move through those periods of longing in grief, how
Speaker 1: you can move forward with your life and you know,
Speaker 1: with respect and admiration for that person and everything they
Speaker 1: can attributed to your life, but leaving the love you
Speaker 1: had for them behind and solidly in the past. We'll
Speaker 1: talk more about that later. Love is not always easy
Speaker 1: or straightforward. And I think the majority of the times
Speaker 1: we do choose to put ourselves out there and have
Speaker 1: a deep connection with someone, we risk being profoundly hurt.
Speaker 1: But I guess the message of this episode that I
Speaker 1: really want to convey is that it's always worth it.
Speaker 1: The growth you see in yourself, the ability to recreate yourself,
Speaker 1: to remind yourself of your strength and why you are
Speaker 1: fucking amazing, is just such an incredible reward. You know,
Speaker 1: also just the fact that you lean on your friends
Speaker 1: and your family and your hobbies so much more intensely,
Speaker 1: and you're just going to see so much growth and
Speaker 1: reward in that area of your life as well. After
Speaker 1: a breakup. Some of the moments of the greatest change
Speaker 1: and growth and significance in my life has come after
Speaker 1: periods of heartache, and I look back at the person
Speaker 1: I was for and I can't even recognize her anymore
Speaker 1: because I'm profoundly different. You are profoundly different after you
Speaker 1: have loved and lost, no matter how significant that relationship was.
Speaker 1: It could have been for three months, could have been
Speaker 1: for six, could have been for years. But I guess
Speaker 1: I am speaking to people in their twenties where you know,
Speaker 1: I don't think many of us have met the loves
Speaker 1: of our lives yet. Maybe you have congratulations, but it
Speaker 1: ultimately means that you're going to have to probably go
Speaker 1: through this at least once or twice before you get there.
Speaker 1: But being able to, you know, look at who you
Speaker 1: were before, look at who you are now, and think
Speaker 1: about who you are and could be who you could
Speaker 1: be in the future. It's just such a beautiful part
Speaker 1: of that process. And I had this recently. I went
Speaker 1: back to Canberra, where I went to UNI and spent
Speaker 1: a lot of time, and I just realized how much
Speaker 1: I had grown since I was last there and when
Speaker 1: I was living there, and I felt so sad. I
Speaker 1: felt so sad for the person I was when I
Speaker 1: was there, and I missed those memories and those people
Speaker 1: that I loved in that place. But I was also
Speaker 1: so grateful and proud for what I chose to do
Speaker 1: after periods of hurt. And I was proud of myself for,
Speaker 1: you know, I guess, standing up for myself not being
Speaker 1: with those people anymore, realizing that I did deserve better,
Speaker 1: and I did a bit of a survey of my
Speaker 1: life and I just felt so much gratitude for those
Speaker 1: people and for myself, because I guess you put in
Speaker 1: the work and it pays off and one day you
Speaker 1: get a kind of look around and be like, Wow,
Speaker 1: I did it. I like move past those periods of
Speaker 1: like shittiness. And I also think this is a period
Speaker 1: of my life. I think it's like the first time
Speaker 1: in like five years that I haven't either been heartbroken
Speaker 1: dating or falling in love. And what a liberating feeling
Speaker 1: that is. And if you're in your own breakup right now,
Speaker 1: which I am assuming you are, I hope that's something
Speaker 1: to look forward to. Okay, I'm really sorry for the ramble.
Speaker 1: I guess it's a vulnerable subject though, So if you're
Speaker 1: not here for the vulnerability, you're probably not here for
Speaker 1: the right reasons. But let me give you an overview
Speaker 1: of what we are what I am planning to discuss today.
Speaker 1: So we're going to talk about the biology and the
Speaker 1: underlying kind of physical reactions that many breakups contain and
Speaker 1: that make breakups so hard. There is, like most things,
Speaker 1: a science to it or that we will discuss. And
Speaker 1: we'll talk about grief and how to move through the
Speaker 1: stages of grief associated with a breakup and then eventually
Speaker 1: how you move on. Also, can you be friends with
Speaker 1: your ex? Well, I'm going to speak from experience and
Speaker 1: say yes, we can, but it has a few conditions.
Speaker 1: And I think it's a question that a lot of
Speaker 1: us ask ourselves when we're in a breakup, like I
Speaker 1: just want to be friends with them. I just want to,
Speaker 1: you know, as long as we stay friends. So that's
Speaker 1: also a point of contention, but also discussion that I
Speaker 1: want to think about with you, discuss with you. So
Speaker 1: all you heartbroken people out there, welcome, strap yourself in
Speaker 1: and yeah, prepare for a brilliant EPI. So, I don't know,
Speaker 1: an informative episode and one that hopefully you can relate to.
Speaker 1: So the first thing I want to talk about is
Speaker 1: the biology, the science, the psychology behind breakups. What does
Speaker 1: it mean from I guess a brain sense or a
Speaker 1: mind sense, what's actually happening up there? Why does this hurt?
Speaker 1: Why does this hurt so much? So a big part
Speaker 1: of it is, of course, to do with neurotransmitters. I'm
Speaker 1: sure you probably guess that neurotransmitters are basically hopefully I'm
Speaker 1: not explaining this if you already know, but basically they're
Speaker 1: these little chemicals in our brain that allow for communication. There,
Speaker 1: you know, the fuel that the brain rate, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of relies on to communicate messages and to get
Speaker 1: us to act and do things. And our neurotransmitters play
Speaker 1: a pretty big role in feelings like love and then
Speaker 1: the subsequent feeling of her when it doesn't work out.
Speaker 1: The primary ones are serotonin and dopamine. We hear a
Speaker 1: lot about them, and for good reasons. So there was
Speaker 1: this study done around a breakup and around love that
Speaker 1: shows that addiction and love are actually very very similar.
Speaker 1: So in the study, there's psychologists. She had two groups
Speaker 1: of people and one group were you know, intensely in
Speaker 1: love falling in love, and the other group had been
Speaker 1: broken up with and she showed them pictures of you know,
Speaker 1: their beloved the people that they loved, and when she
Speaker 1: showed it to the people who were actively in love,
Speaker 1: the same areas lit up in their brain as you
Speaker 1: would expect when you know, you would see when someone
Speaker 1: would do like heroin or when you got a massive
Speaker 1: dopamine hit from gambling or from intense exercise. Anything that
Speaker 1: is addictive activates the same parts of our brains that
Speaker 1: love does, which is really interesting and really accounts where
Speaker 1: I think that really intense period where you're first meeting
Speaker 1: someone and getting to know them, where you're just obsessed
Speaker 1: and you love them and you're just you know, thinking
Speaker 1: about they could do no wrong, thinking about all the
Speaker 1: future plans, all the amazing things about them, and you know,
Speaker 1: its essence. What the psychologist is saying is that its
Speaker 1: addiction is that dopamine. The dopamine in our brain is
Speaker 1: creating pathways really quickly that make you want to have
Speaker 1: more of a fix and make you more connected to
Speaker 1: this person or a neurological level. So then she showed
Speaker 1: these photos of people, you know, people that were connected
Speaker 1: to the participants, to the people who've just been broken
Speaker 1: up with. Here's the thing, those same areas lit up,
Speaker 1: but something else happened as well. Firstly, they lit up
Speaker 1: just as much, but it took long to die down.
Speaker 1: So what that means is that you're not getting the
Speaker 1: same hit or fix. You know, your brain gets activated
Speaker 1: to receive a reward and you don't get it, and
Speaker 1: what ends up happening is withdrawal. So your brain sends
Speaker 1: out all these messages of like oh my gosh, we're
Speaker 1: going to get this reward. You know, we've seen this
Speaker 1: person that's like a hit it or it's a rush
Speaker 1: of like some drug. And in the people who were
Speaker 1: in love, you know, they were rewarded by that. They
Speaker 1: knew that those feelings of love would be reciprocated. They
Speaker 1: could go back to that person and get that hit.
Speaker 1: But for the people who were in a breakup, their
Speaker 1: brains were no longer getting that hit, and it caused
Speaker 1: genuine withdrawal, genuine withdrawal symptoms within their brain, a crash
Speaker 1: within their brain, a dopamine crash. And this other group
Speaker 1: of researchers, they studied young adults had experienced a recent
Speaker 1: unwanted breakup, so they were broken up with, and when
Speaker 1: participants viewed photos of their ex as their ventual to
Speaker 1: mental vent tegimental area, so basically it's the VTA and
Speaker 1: they're this like nucleus in the center of their brain
Speaker 1: where the dopamine center is. They all lit up with activity.
Speaker 1: And these regions are tied to our brains reward system,
Speaker 1: specifically dopamine, which we've talked about the causes feelings of
Speaker 1: euphoria and addiction. And in the face of a breakup,
Speaker 1: your brain stimulates the addiction. The dopamine signals your brain
Speaker 1: to crave an object or a person that previously caused
Speaker 1: the euphoria for you to crave them in the first place.
Speaker 1: So our reward or motivation system means that we're now
Speaker 1: driven to find the source of our joy and to
Speaker 1: to you know, find that person. But we don't have
Speaker 1: access to them anymore. They're not ours, So you basically
Speaker 1: have that crash. You have that high and you have
Speaker 1: that crash. Kind of also explains you know, those like
Speaker 1: awkward drunk texts that you send your acts when you're
Speaker 1: really drunk and you're like looking at photos of them
Speaker 1: or like thinking of them, and your brain's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I know how we can how we can get a hit.
Speaker 1: Let's just message to them out of the blue. Don't
Speaker 1: do it. Never works. I feel like, yeah, let's just
Speaker 1: steer clear of that. Another part of our kind of
Speaker 1: internal systems and our neurological systems that contributes to the
Speaker 1: pain of a breakup is this thing called long term potentiation.
Speaker 1: I've talked about this on the podcast before. You all
Speaker 1: know the term. You use it or you lose it,
Speaker 1: But there is kind of a reverse of that as well.
Speaker 1: The more you use a pathway, the stronger it becomes.
Speaker 1: So when you've been with someone, when you've been with
Speaker 1: them for a while, when you've built up memories and
Speaker 1: connections and patterns of behavior with them, your brain creates,
Speaker 1: you know, simultaneously creates patterns of synapses and patterns of
Speaker 1: neurons that reflect those activities, that reflect those feelings. And
Speaker 1: then you break up with them, and you know, whilst
Speaker 1: they may be gone, those neurological patterns and pathways in
Speaker 1: your brain associated with that person, they're still there. They
Speaker 1: didn't go anywhere, so your brain continues to fire signals
Speaker 1: along along those pathways. That creates a sense of craving,
Speaker 1: and it takes a while for those pathways to die out.
Speaker 1: I guess that's the great part of you know, you
Speaker 1: use it or you lose it. You can lose it
Speaker 1: if you don't act on those reactions or those impulses
Speaker 1: to talk to that person, to see that person, to
Speaker 1: connect with that person. Slowly, those pathways that are associated
Speaker 1: with your feelings for them, they'll die, They will no
Speaker 1: longer be used in the brain, will be like okay, well,
Speaker 1: let's let's replace that with something better. In a breakup,
Speaker 1: you also feel a lot of physical symptoms as well.
Speaker 1: So MRI scans and some other neuroscience studies have shown
Speaker 1: that the withdrawal of romantic love activates the same parts
Speaker 1: of the brain which are activated when we go through withdrawal.
Speaker 1: So it also sends the same signals to your body
Speaker 1: to pay attention to certain things, and it creates physical
Speaker 1: pain as well. So these MRI s and showed that
Speaker 1: there are several areas of the brain which contribute to that. Basically,
Speaker 1: what it means is your brain is addicted to something
Speaker 1: and when it can't get it, it sends signals to
Speaker 1: your body to do so to go out and find it.
Speaker 1: You know, you might feel, you know, physically ill, you
Speaker 1: might feel like nauseous, you might feel incredibly tired or
Speaker 1: anxious or jittery, fatigue, muscle agges, headaches, all of these
Speaker 1: are symptoms of what you would expect from you know,
Speaker 1: drug withdrawal, But lovers love is the best drug, I guess,
Speaker 1: and so you're expecting and it's expected that you'll also
Speaker 1: experience that when you go through a breakup. The other component,
Speaker 1: which is more of a social element, I think, But
Speaker 1: equally as important is that when you date someone and
Speaker 1: when you love someone, your identity becomes intertwined with them.
Speaker 1: There are parts of you that you associate with them.
Speaker 1: They've had kind of a hand in, you know, love
Speaker 1: and romance. I'm sure we've all seen. It also creates codependence,
Speaker 1: where you're relying on that person for support and for
Speaker 1: love and for validation. And when you can no longer
Speaker 1: get that, your sense of self really crumbles and diminishes
Speaker 1: because you no longer have that support structure to hold
Speaker 1: you up. You just feel weakened without it, and our
Speaker 1: brain kind of does weird things with that as well.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've had this, but you know,
Speaker 1: these people that you've broken up with, it you're not
Speaker 1: with anymore, they show up in your dreams. They like
Speaker 1: I remember, I like a few months ago, I was
Speaker 1: just having like vivid, vivid dreams of this person showing up,
Speaker 1: and it felt so real because my brain was still
Speaker 1: trying to use those old pathways that you know, we
Speaker 1: were trying to shut down. And also because they had
Speaker 1: been a big part of my life, so they were
Speaker 1: all of the I wasn't having them in my life,
Speaker 1: so my brain was kind of creating situations for me
Speaker 1: in which I got to have that kind of fix.
Speaker 1: It also might be why, you know, you do also
Speaker 1: feel your self esteem and your self confidence really kind
Speaker 1: of go down the toilet, because, like we were talking about,
Speaker 1: with that social element of your identity becoming intertwined with them,
Speaker 1: you no longer have that validation and reinforcement from someone
Speaker 1: you truly loved, and your confidence just kind of drops.
Speaker 1: I had that recently. I would just like felt so
Speaker 1: low and so like crappy about myself because I could
Speaker 1: no longer look to this person to kind of lift
Speaker 1: me up. Not that they really did anyways, but in
Speaker 1: the ways that they would show you affection or they
Speaker 1: would show you that you cared. I'll show you that
Speaker 1: they cared about you. You don't have that anymore, So
Speaker 1: what do you have to replace it with you In
Speaker 1: the initial stage of the breakup, nothing really seems to
Speaker 1: feel that whole the same way that they did, which
Speaker 1: is really tough, and it all kind of links together.
Speaker 1: That's why you just feel so crap and you feel
Speaker 1: so shitty because there are physical and social and mental
Speaker 1: and psychological reactions going on in your brain that is
Speaker 1: to do with withdrawal, and that is to do with
Speaker 1: no longer having access to that fix or that sense
Speaker 1: of companionship with that person. So now that we understand
Speaker 1: where those shitty feelings are coming from, I want to
Speaker 1: talk about grief. I think losing a relationship, losing someone
Speaker 1: you love not permanently is and they're dead, but losing
Speaker 1: someone you're no longer with is this type of grief.
Speaker 1: Having to say goodbye to that person and what you
Speaker 1: had and what you could have had in the future
Speaker 1: is grief. And I do truly believe that there are
Speaker 1: stages of grieving to a breakup, just like there are
Speaker 1: stages of grieving with a death. For those who don't know,
Speaker 1: the five stages are denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.
Speaker 1: Let's apply these to heartbreak to a breakup. Denial. That's
Speaker 1: probably the first two weeks, i'd say for most of us,
Speaker 1: where it's just like this isn't happening. Everything is as normal,
Speaker 1: everything is, We're just going about our business. And it's
Speaker 1: where you don't really feel anything. You know, you're full
Speaker 1: of like opportunities for what you can do. You know,
Speaker 1: like now I can date other people, now I can,
Speaker 1: you know, hang out with my friends, let's go drinking,
Speaker 1: Let's like, you know, go gym, heaps, or like whatever
Speaker 1: you decide to do. Essentially, it's just like the emotions
Speaker 1: haven't hit you yet, you're still in denial about what
Speaker 1: is actually happening. Next comes anger. Anger is just such
Speaker 1: a severe stage I think of grief, but one that
Speaker 1: you just have to work through. Anger at yourself, anger
Speaker 1: at the person, anger at the situation. I remember finding
Speaker 1: myself so angry at myself for allowing myself to be in,
Speaker 1: you know, a relationship that wasn't suiting me for so long,
Speaker 1: and now I'm having to go through this period of
Speaker 1: like intense heartbreak I should have just like not that
Speaker 1: you know, started it to begin with, which is ridiculous.
Speaker 1: But the anger, I think a big element of it
Speaker 1: is it's not rational and it's not necessarily something you
Speaker 1: can control. Other either bargaining. You know, typically how people
Speaker 1: would see bargaining in relationship a breakup is wanting to
Speaker 1: get back together with them, trying to you know, kind
Speaker 1: of have a discussion with yourself for that, Oh, you know,
Speaker 1: eventually we'll get back together, Like it's in the future.
Speaker 1: You know we're meant to be together, we'll get back together,
Speaker 1: or bargaining around like, oh, I'm just going to find
Speaker 1: someone better. I'm just going to you know, if I
Speaker 1: do these things, I'll feel great in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: If I go and sleep with someone else, I'll feel fine.
Speaker 1: It's basically yourself kind of trying to convince You're trying
Speaker 1: to convince yourself that there's an easy way out, which
Speaker 1: I'm sure you know there isn't. And when it doesn't work,
Speaker 1: we have depression, perhaps the longest stage of the breakup
Speaker 1: and the most acute, where you just feel shit, You
Speaker 1: just feel awful, you feel sad, you feel lonely, you
Speaker 1: miss that person so much. You know you're probably looking
Speaker 1: back through all the photos and fun times you had
Speaker 1: of them. Sometimes it's actually, at least I think, really
Speaker 1: good to embody that period and to really let yourself
Speaker 1: feel that emotion like you would anything else. You know,
Speaker 1: if you were physically hurt, I would hope you wouldn't
Speaker 1: just ignore it. But in another sense, I think it's
Speaker 1: actually can be quite nice and a little bit indulgent
Speaker 1: in a good way to just let yourself be sad,
Speaker 1: let yourself really be sad about what could have been,
Speaker 1: about what you miss about that person, because if you don't,
Speaker 1: and if you try and suppress it, if you try
Speaker 1: and use things like, you know, drink or have sex,
Speaker 1: or throw yourself into something else or you know, stay
Speaker 1: you know, always be on your screen or whatever it is,
Speaker 1: excessively socialize, you're never actually going to move through this stage.
Speaker 1: And it's just going to take longer. Everyone has to
Speaker 1: get through it. If you're going through a breakup, it's
Speaker 1: just part of the deal. You're going to be really
Speaker 1: sad for a while, and it's best to make that
Speaker 1: last a little bit shorter, I think by just like
Speaker 1: pushing yourself really into it, hitting that kind of low stage,
Speaker 1: and then you building yourself back up, and that's when
Speaker 1: you get to the final stage of grief, which is acceptance.
Speaker 1: Acceptance is the key to moving on. It is the
Speaker 1: golden antidote to everything that's come before. It's realizing that
Speaker 1: you're not going to be with that person. That person
Speaker 1: is no longer yours in a sense, you are probably
Speaker 1: never going to see them again, or at least not
Speaker 1: in a setting where you probably want to see them again.
Speaker 1: You're never going to tell them you love them again.
Speaker 1: You're never going to you know, kiss them again, go
Speaker 1: on holidays with them again, have that same level of intimacy.
Speaker 1: And it's about really accepting that you do want to
Speaker 1: be with someone that loves you and someone that you
Speaker 1: can grow with, someone that treats you with respect. That
Speaker 1: was a point I really had to get to where
Speaker 1: I was. I think in previous breakups where I was like, actually, no,
Speaker 1: Like I accept that I do deserve things better. I
Speaker 1: accept that that was a very beautiful relationship and that
Speaker 1: we did have a great time. But it's over now.
Speaker 1: And I think that's the thing that I really stags
Speaker 1: a lot of people, really trips them up, is you
Speaker 1: don't truly let them go. You don't recognize that it's
Speaker 1: truly over. You always have that thought at the back
Speaker 1: back of your mind of like, yeah, maybe one day
Speaker 1: we'll get back together, you know, I'll get to see
Speaker 1: them here, I'll get to maybe one day we can
Speaker 1: we can do this again. And you're not going to
Speaker 1: be able to move forward unless you get over that, essentially,
Speaker 1: unless you really come to terms with that, and you
Speaker 1: can kind of tell if you haven't. I remember I
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I'm totally over it. I've accepted this,
Speaker 1: we're not together anymore. And then you know what happens.
Speaker 1: You know what happens. They get a new partner, they
Speaker 1: get an new relationship. And that's the real, I guess
Speaker 1: moment of truth in determining whether you really have accepted
Speaker 1: that it's over or whether you've just been telling yourself
Speaker 1: that it is. Because when that person gets a new partner,
Speaker 1: that's when that conclusion that realizes that realization of like,
Speaker 1: oh fuck, like I'm not with this person anymore, they're
Speaker 1: not with me, this is really done. And I think
Speaker 1: that's when the breakup can truly kind of set it.
Speaker 1: If you haven't been through that depression stage, you've just
Speaker 1: kind of skipped over it and gone straight to like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's done, we're over, Like let's move on. As soon
Speaker 1: as they get, you know, meet someone new. I think
Speaker 1: that's really when you kind of realize, you kind of
Speaker 1: realize that you probably haven't really really reached that stage yet.
Speaker 1: And I think one way to get to that acceptance
Speaker 1: stage is kind of having a bit of a funeral
Speaker 1: for your love. And I know this is really really strange,
Speaker 1: but it's something that I have done that really helps
Speaker 1: me and really has helped me in the past. Make
Speaker 1: a box of all the things they gave you, or
Speaker 1: your little mementos, you know, cards they wrote you, gifts,
Speaker 1: they gave you, tickets to things that you did together, photos,
Speaker 1: whatever it may be. Put it in a box and
Speaker 1: put it away. And I think write them almost like
Speaker 1: a bit of a eulogy, a bit of a letter
Speaker 1: saying you know, yeah, really acknowledging how much you loved them,
Speaker 1: saying all the things that you really loved about them,
Speaker 1: that you really saw in them, the best things about them,
Speaker 1: and then also taking a moment to realize why it
Speaker 1: probably wasn't meant to be. Sometimes, I think when we
Speaker 1: are in that depression stage of that stage of grief,
Speaker 1: we look back on our relationships with rose tinted lenses
Speaker 1: and we really tend to forget the awful times. It's
Speaker 1: a terrible type of cognitive dissonance. You just look back
Speaker 1: and you think, oh, you know, how amazing was it
Speaker 1: when we were on this beautiful trip together, and like,
Speaker 1: how amazing was it when we did this, And you know,
Speaker 1: how amazing was it when we had this experience Not
Speaker 1: remembering all the times in between when perhaps you didn't
Speaker 1: feel loved and you didn't feel respected or not, you know,
Speaker 1: remembering the fact that if they wanted to, they would
Speaker 1: be with you, and then not for a reason, write
Speaker 1: that letter. It's going to be really hard. You will
Speaker 1: probably have a few tears. And it's actually a really
Speaker 1: good thing to feel sad when you're doing it, because
Speaker 1: you're sitting back or you're acknowledging both the gratitude you
Speaker 1: have for them, but also your fears and also in
Speaker 1: some ways the reasons why it did to have to end.
Speaker 1: If the funeral idea is a little bit weird for you,
Speaker 1: I totally get it. I'm just saying it works. I
Speaker 1: have like a few boxes of like X's stuff that
Speaker 1: I like keep in my attic, and you know, maybe
Speaker 1: I'll pull it out one day, but it's safe now.
Speaker 1: But if that's not really your thing, keep a diary
Speaker 1: or some way of tracking your progress. So this might
Speaker 1: sound a little bit dramatic, but the first breakup I
Speaker 1: ever went through, I was so distraught. I don't even know.
Speaker 1: That was the worst. I don't even know how to
Speaker 1: explain it. I was just so sad. I was crying
Speaker 1: all the time, I was just like miserable, and my
Speaker 1: psychologist at the time said, you should film this. You
Speaker 1: should film yourself in this stage. Every time you're crying,
Speaker 1: every time you get overwhelmed and you think about them,
Speaker 1: pull out your camera and start recording. And I did it,
Speaker 1: and every time I was crying about them, I would
Speaker 1: record exactly how I was feeling, what I was thinking
Speaker 1: about at that moment. And I still have those videos.
Speaker 1: I actually looked at them a few days ago in
Speaker 1: thinking about this episode. Fuck, it was sad, but you
Speaker 1: know what else, it was kind of beautiful. It's like
Speaker 1: thirty five minutes of just like clips of me, like
Speaker 1: in tears in different locations around you know, Camber and Melbourne,
Speaker 1: and I just looked watched it back and I was like,
Speaker 1: that's just crazy that I was feeling that emotion so intensely.
Speaker 1: And I can look at this now and realize how
Speaker 1: far I've come, and it's a great way to kind
Speaker 1: of see that you are moving forward. And yeah, progress
Speaker 1: isn't linear, but at the end of the day, when
Speaker 1: you do watch them back in the future, you're just
Speaker 1: going to kind of laugh at yourself, you know, feel
Speaker 1: a little bit of pity, but also just have that
Speaker 1: moment of like kerror, I did it, I made it
Speaker 1: through that I'm actually not that person anymore. Some more strategies,
Speaker 1: the classic one and one that I do really stand by.
Speaker 1: Block them, block them, put them in spam, at least
Speaker 1: for a little while, don't have any contact. I know
Speaker 1: it's really really hard. I know you don't want to
Speaker 1: do it. Trust me, I've been there that if you
Speaker 1: don't feel like you can do that right now. If
Speaker 1: I think also, you know, if you have things that
Speaker 1: tie you together, like maybe you lived with them and
Speaker 1: you've got bank accounts you need to deal with, or
Speaker 1: you've got leases that you need to deal with, or
Speaker 1: furniture or shared property or cars or anything like that,
Speaker 1: obviously it doesn't make sense to block them straight away
Speaker 1: because A. That's rude. B that's irresponsible. But put them
Speaker 1: in spam. Put them in spam, and then give yourself
Speaker 1: like thirty minutes in the day where you can think
Speaker 1: about them and you can reply to them, and you
Speaker 1: can do whatever you want. And then outside of that
Speaker 1: thirty minutes, put them away. There's nothing that needs to
Speaker 1: be done within twenty four hours that they can't wait
Speaker 1: for and it really stops you from getting those notifications
Speaker 1: or being reminded of them when you don't want to
Speaker 1: think about them, having them pop up to you on
Speaker 1: Instagram when you're spending time with your friends. You know
Speaker 1: how shitty that is. It's just like the worst feeling
Speaker 1: because it makes you feel like you've made no progress.
Speaker 1: It pulls you away from the moment, and it keeps
Speaker 1: you in the loop. So I would say, if you
Speaker 1: can't block them, at least put them in spam. That
Speaker 1: is my biggest tip. And when you do get the
Speaker 1: option to block them, do it. It is just amazing
Speaker 1: and I think really helps contribute to that acceptance of like,
Speaker 1: we're not together anymore, I'm not going to see this
Speaker 1: person anymore. I shouldn't have any contact. My friend Phoebe
Speaker 1: God bless her if she's listening, absolute legend. She has
Speaker 1: said this to me and my most recent experience of heartache.
Speaker 1: She goes, if you don't have contact with them, if
Speaker 1: they're not in your life, if you're not seeing them,
Speaker 1: if you're not getting notifications from them, if they're not
Speaker 1: present in your daily kind of routine, you can kind
Speaker 1: of forget that they even exist. If they're not in
Speaker 1: your like periphery. If they're not in your field of vision,
Speaker 1: either on your phone or by seeing them, you can
Speaker 1: move forward a lot faster. And I think that kind
Speaker 1: of links to this next idea of like keep yourself busy.
Speaker 1: Although I've said, like it's important to really feel your emotions,
Speaker 1: keeping yourself busy, it's just like so useful when you
Speaker 1: are in that like really terrible stage. Reconnect with your friends,
Speaker 1: reconnect with the things that you might have given up
Speaker 1: that we naturally give up when we become intertwined and
Speaker 1: connected with someone else. And I think that is also
Speaker 1: relevant to creating new parts of you, pursuing new things
Speaker 1: that you know they don't have some connection to, new
Speaker 1: parts of you that are just yours. Hobbies and new friends.
Speaker 1: They're a great place to start, you know, try a
Speaker 1: new sport, go hiking, go see new places. And I
Speaker 1: think that's a massive thing. I remember I went when
Speaker 1: I was in camera and I went through this like
Speaker 1: break up with one of my exes. Everywhere I go
Speaker 1: would just remind me of them, and it was so painful,
Speaker 1: it was so terrible. But I started visiting new places
Speaker 1: that had no connection with them. That were just mine.
Speaker 1: And by doing that, I got to create and recreate
Speaker 1: my identity outside of that relationship and outside of my
Speaker 1: you know, of us together, and it was a really
Speaker 1: great way to kind of move forward, to reconnect with
Speaker 1: myself and see myself as not just their's, not just
Speaker 1: their girlfriend, not just their person, but as Gemma, as
Speaker 1: my own person who has their own things that they
Speaker 1: don't have any touch or hold or fingers in, that
Speaker 1: they don't have any connection to. And I think that's
Speaker 1: a really important step and you know, hopefully a good
Speaker 1: strategy for you if you are in that situation where
Speaker 1: you're just in a loop of being reminded of them,
Speaker 1: of feeling like everything you do is in some way
Speaker 1: theirs as well. Okay, so what next? What next? You've
Speaker 1: done the work, you've invested in yourself, you've invested in
Speaker 1: your hobbies, you've invested in your friends, you've cut off contact.
Speaker 1: You have gone to therapy. A big one. My friend
Speaker 1: Aaron would always say that, go to therapy. You have
Speaker 1: moved through, you've gone through that grieving process. Where do
Speaker 1: you go there? Like, what do you do not just
Speaker 1: in relation to them, but in relationship to your broader
Speaker 1: relationships as well. The first thing I think we all
Speaker 1: think about is like, is it possible to be friends
Speaker 1: with your ex? I actually think it is. This is
Speaker 1: not based on any kind of research, just like personal experience.
Speaker 1: I think that you had a really deep connection with
Speaker 1: them for a reason. Perhaps you would have been better
Speaker 1: as friends. You know this whole time. But if you
Speaker 1: have a successfully moved through those stages, if you no
Speaker 1: longer see them as a romantic interest, if you no
Speaker 1: longer and this is critical, no longer have any expectations
Speaker 1: for a future romantic or intimate relationship with them, I
Speaker 1: think it is possible. I think it's possible to reintroduce
Speaker 1: them to your life, slowly and making sure it's not
Speaker 1: derailing any progress you've made, or that you know you're
Speaker 1: putting too much attention on them, or you really are
Speaker 1: se really thinking like, oh, yeah, this is it, we're
Speaker 1: going to get back together this time. But if you're
Speaker 1: no longer in that thought process, I do think it's possible.
Speaker 1: I had this with one of my exes, who I
Speaker 1: love very deeply and who was now I would say,
Speaker 1: a very good friend of mine, and after a while
Speaker 1: we had we had a large period of separation. We
Speaker 1: both went on and dated different people, and then slowly
Speaker 1: we just started to become friends the way that you
Speaker 1: would become friends with a stranger, just like thinking about
Speaker 1: things you had in common, you know, having a laugh
Speaker 1: with them every now and again, helping them out with
Speaker 1: like some random thing, and keeping it at that level,
Speaker 1: not letting it get any deeper. I remember the moment
Speaker 1: I realized that like I truly was like just like
Speaker 1: actually just good pals with this person was when I
Speaker 1: was talking to them about another relationship I was in
Speaker 1: and he was doing the same, and there was no
Speaker 1: feeling of jealousy, there was no feeling of like sadness.
Speaker 1: It was just as if I was talking to any
Speaker 1: of my other friends about something I was going through. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's actually I would say, you know, a rare thing
Speaker 1: to achieve, and it's definitely not for everyone. And I
Speaker 1: would say, if you can't keep up healthy boundaries with
Speaker 1: that person, if that person has really hurt you or
Speaker 1: done something that's like genuinely abhorrent or like terrible, in
Speaker 1: no way should you feel like you have to be
Speaker 1: friends with them again, or should you feel obligated cut
Speaker 1: them off, get them out of your fucking life. But
Speaker 1: if you have that inclination, and if it's natural and
Speaker 1: if it works, I do think that there is something
Speaker 1: to be said about being friends with your ex and
Speaker 1: keeping them in your life at a healthy distance. I
Speaker 1: think the other thing is when do you know that
Speaker 1: you're ready to date again. I don't think you ever know.
Speaker 1: I think they will just come a point where you'll
Speaker 1: just realize that that's actually an option now, and that
Speaker 1: you are in the right place to be able to
Speaker 1: meet someone new, to give it another shot, and to
Speaker 1: share with yourself a big hurdle. I think there's two
Speaker 1: things I really want to say about that. If you're
Speaker 1: just dating because you're trying to get over that person,
Speaker 1: I don't think that's that great. Firstly, you're just going
Speaker 1: to end up hurting yourself more. It's also not fair
Speaker 1: to those other people either, And I don't actually think
Speaker 1: it's a healthy way to move through grief. You're just
Speaker 1: using dating and other people as a distraction, and you're
Speaker 1: always I think, looking to those people that you're seeing
Speaker 1: to be like that person you were just with with.
Speaker 1: It's just like such an unhealthy expectation to place on
Speaker 1: every single possible party in that situation. I also think
Speaker 1: the other thing that comes into it is your self
Speaker 1: confidence levels and feeling as if you are yourself again,
Speaker 1: if you do have something to share, if your life
Speaker 1: would at this stage be better with someone else. My
Speaker 1: friend Kate is incredible, just an incredible, incredible person, and
Speaker 1: I just remember her saying like she just mate, like
Speaker 1: she after she went through like a hard period of
Speaker 1: hard breakup, heart heart break thing, she just focused really
Speaker 1: intently on making her life as amazing as possible, as
Speaker 1: suited to what she wanted as possible. So when someone
Speaker 1: did come along, the only thing left is for them
Speaker 1: to do was just to already elevate what she already
Speaker 1: knew she had, which was happiness, which was friends, which
Speaker 1: was opportunities, and which was gratitude. And I think that's
Speaker 1: a really successful and amazing way to go about it.
Speaker 1: And making sure that you're at a point where you
Speaker 1: feel like you could be vulnerable with someone again, that
Speaker 1: was a big thing and still a big thing for me.
Speaker 1: I think where although like I'm definitely not actively dating
Speaker 1: or anything like that, a big reason behind me not
Speaker 1: doing that is because I just don't feel the need
Speaker 1: to but be just think there's so much work left
Speaker 1: to be done in myself, around my confidence levels after
Speaker 1: my recent experience, and just feeling like I am myself again,
Speaker 1: and that if someone met me tomorrow, if like my
Speaker 1: soulmate met me tomorrow, they would actually like the person
Speaker 1: I am, and the person I am is actually a
Speaker 1: reflection of who I want to be and a reflection
Speaker 1: of my values and my principles and not of you
Speaker 1: my self esteem issues. You know, it's a lot. If
Speaker 1: you work through your baggage, Elly, it's a less weight
Speaker 1: and less burden on your future relationships. I think you're
Speaker 1: doing yourself a favor for the future, You're doing them
Speaker 1: a favor. It's not really much else to be said
Speaker 1: about it other than that. And before we wrap up
Speaker 1: this episode, if you are going through a breakup, I
Speaker 1: send you a lot of love. I know how it feels,
Speaker 1: I know what can feel really terrible, But do focus
Speaker 1: on the really good parts of the relationship for a while,
Speaker 1: let yourself feel pay let yourself feel the love that
Speaker 1: you do have for them, at least for a period,
Speaker 1: and be grateful for that relation ship and then really
Speaker 1: get to work on accepting that it's not part of
Speaker 1: your life anymore. It's not part of your future, it's
Speaker 1: not part of your reality, and it's time to move on.
Speaker 1: It's time to be with someone who's more compatible, be
Speaker 1: with someone who can give you what you want and
Speaker 1: who can give you what you really deserve, because you deserve.
Speaker 1: I think so much more. If that relationship didn't work,
Speaker 1: it didn't work for a reason. Remind yourself of that
Speaker 1: it didn't work for a reason. It might not be
Speaker 1: their fault, it might not be it's definitely not your fault.
Speaker 1: It might not be anyone's fault. Sometimes people just don't
Speaker 1: work because there's friction, because there's incompatibilities, and that's all right,
Speaker 1: and you don't have to get back together with them.
Speaker 1: You shouldn't feel like you need to. There's someone a
Speaker 1: lot better out there. And even if you're by yourself
Speaker 1: for five ten years, that's just such a great opportunity
Speaker 1: to make yourself into the best version of you. Not
Speaker 1: for your future partner, not for your future you know,
Speaker 1: boyfriend or girlfriend or partner or whatever, but just for you,
Speaker 1: and just because you know, on this stuff, you really
Speaker 1: do only have yourself, and that's just the most crucial element.
Speaker 1: I think. If nothing else. If you take nothing else,
Speaker 1: you really do only have yourself. So the investment you
Speaker 1: put into your identity, your character, how you feel about yourself,
Speaker 1: how you feel in relation to others, whether you're proud
Speaker 1: of yourself, whether you love yourself, is so much more
Speaker 1: important than whether you love someone else and whether they
Speaker 1: love you. So yes, I hope you enjoyed this episode.
Speaker 1: I thought it was going to be a lot more
Speaker 1: emotional than it was. I guess it's a testament to
Speaker 1: having moved through this successfully. Congratulations, Gamma. But I hope
Speaker 1: it also gave you some insight. It gave you something
Speaker 1: to think about and some strategies, some advice. Time is
Speaker 1: just your best friend in this situation. It's a brilliant
Speaker 1: and worst thing about. Time always moves forward and you
Speaker 1: will as well, And it really does heal all wounds,
Speaker 1: at least partially. Along with some good hard work and
Speaker 1: some therapy, you'll get to a point where you can
Speaker 1: look back on yourself in this stage, like I looked
Speaker 1: back at those videos of me crying when I was
Speaker 1: like nineteen and just feel just a little bit silly
Speaker 1: about it, but also just like so much. It's just
Speaker 1: such a strange feeling. It's just such a strange feeling
Speaker 1: to be looking back at yourself in the past and
Speaker 1: just acknowledging how far you've come and just thinking back
Speaker 1: on those feelings and how you never thought it was
Speaker 1: going to end and then eventually it does. And if
Speaker 1: you did like this episode, please feel feel free to
Speaker 1: subscribe or leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or
Speaker 1: Spotify podcasts. It really does help this show grow. If
Speaker 1: this is an episode you think someone else in your
Speaker 1: life would really appreciate it, would really appreciate or really
Speaker 1: needs send it to them. I would be really greatful
Speaker 1: if you would do that, and follow us on Instagram
Speaker 1: as well at Twenties Psychology Podcast. I know it's a
Speaker 1: weird handle. I'm trying to change it. I don't really
Speaker 1: know how to, but sometimes we do like questions there
Speaker 1: for topic ideas or things you want to hear about,
Speaker 1: So please feel free to send your suggestions over there.
Speaker 1: And sending you a lot of peace, love, and happiness.
Speaker 1: If you are moving through your breakup and some heartbreak
Speaker 1: at the moment, it's going to get better and you're
Speaker 1: on the right path. If you're listening to podcasts, I
Speaker 1: think you're you're getting into that acceptance stage, so best
Speaker 1: of luck and thank you for listening.