Speaker 1: Welcome the guys we fund the anti slut Shining Pods.
Speaker 1: I'm Christina, I'm kerin Ficture and I'm friends bring up
Speaker 1: to slutting, your horny and your shame. Hey, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: talk about how you doing? Fuckers? What up? How you
Speaker 1: been you're fucking? You're doing? Okay, what's going on inside
Speaker 1: that brand of yours? Welcome to another episode of Guys
Speaker 1: We Fuck. It's the anti slutshing podcast. I'm Karen Fisher,
Speaker 1: I'm Christina Hutchinson. Welcome to our show. Thank you to
Speaker 1: everybody who submitted songs to fuck to UM. Please check
Speaker 1: our instagram at Guys we Fucked without the U and
Speaker 1: fucked for the top ten list. UM. You send in
Speaker 1: some good ones. I gotta be honest. Some of them.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, oh, I can't not want to
Speaker 1: suck that song. Did any men send songs in? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah they did, and they were good. Some people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: some people didn't understand the assignment as the kids say,
Speaker 1: and that like they were really romantic and I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm talking like a song that makes you want to
Speaker 1: crawl on all fours baby, And we had a lot
Speaker 1: of those loveless Yeah, yeah, light a candle. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean that makes me feel very uncomfortable. Can lit candles? No,
Speaker 1: not candles, But just like if it's songs that feelings
Speaker 1: that you would light a candle to, I don't want to.
Speaker 1: I don't. Well, it's also you know, you know, it's
Speaker 1: like when you get you get like a card for
Speaker 1: like Valentine's Ay or something, but it's like the person
Speaker 1: who manufactured the card wrote too much in the card,
Speaker 1: and you're like, well, now this is this is not
Speaker 1: even my own feelings, right, that's what That's how I
Speaker 1: feel about a song that's too romantic and having sex
Speaker 1: to it. I shouldn't feel it from you, right right? Right? Um,
Speaker 1: so let's pull let's crit and I are going to
Speaker 1: do a love bucket pull. Um. I already pulled one
Speaker 1: for a care in because it was one minds fully loaded,
Speaker 1: I forgot. I wrote this a couple months ago when
Speaker 1: we did the live Guys We Sucked on YouTube, which
Speaker 1: we are going to be doing a January nine pm
Speaker 1: Eastern Standard time YouTube dot com slash Guys who Sucked
Speaker 1: without the un Come one and come all right. Those
Speaker 1: are very fun shows. Yeah, I enjoy those a lot Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, now I'm scared. It says would you rather have?
Speaker 1: It is not at all the direction I thought this
Speaker 1: is going in. Would you rather have an incurable stinky
Speaker 1: pussy or no neck? That's a tough one, really come
Speaker 1: all the challenges. To me, it's actually pretty easy. Incurable
Speaker 1: sink pussy. Yeah, you just find someone who doesn't have
Speaker 1: a sense of smell or or you covidence. Can we
Speaker 1: define no neck? Does no neck mean like you just
Speaker 1: have like a like a chubby like when people are
Speaker 1: stucky and they have no neck? What do you mean
Speaker 1: medically no neck or someone who has like a bad neck?
Speaker 1: I mean medically no neck. Yeah, people really underestimate how
Speaker 1: important a neck is to look. Yes, absolutely can make
Speaker 1: a break you. And this is like my favorite part
Speaker 1: of me. So definitely definitely I need the neck, especially
Speaker 1: because you've got that golden ratio face. Baby. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: need the neck. And like I and especially as someone
Speaker 1: like it's to me this question is also asking like
Speaker 1: do you need your life to be easy on a
Speaker 1: day to day basis or do you need intimacy? And
Speaker 1: for me, just I need my life to be easy
Speaker 1: on a day to day basis, So that's how I
Speaker 1: kind of interpreted that. Incredible thinking. And also, you just
Speaker 1: find some stimp who's like, I love you no matter
Speaker 1: what your pussy smells, and there's anyone who could do that.
Speaker 1: It's your girls. Yeah, okay, wait, you didn't answer it, Christina.
Speaker 1: I oh, I think i'd rather Yeah, I guess the
Speaker 1: pussy one. Yeah, because the neck really does sunk up
Speaker 1: your look. And I have a long neck. Sorry, and
Speaker 1: I like my neck to listen. Sorry, guys, which two
Speaker 1: of our comedian colleagues would you most like to see
Speaker 1: in a porn Oh? Oh, okay, I'm gonna go with Okay, wait,
Speaker 1: let me think I'm gonna go with Jeff Die and
Speaker 1: who's the guy that hosted the aviensus, matt Rice, Matt Rife.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with them. I would like yeah, because
Speaker 1: I wouldn't mind two guys touching each other. I wanted
Speaker 1: to be something crazy like John Chris, Who's who's a
Speaker 1: Christian comedian? And then like miss Pat Yeah, I was
Speaker 1: thinking miss that. I was thinking miss that them up. Yeah, guys,
Speaker 1: if you want to email us, it's sorry about last
Speaker 1: night's show at gmail dot com. Today's subject line I
Speaker 1: broke things off with my sugar daddy days before my relationship. Hi,
Speaker 1: Krit and Christina. Wow, wow, Wow, I'm so surprised and
Speaker 1: glad I'm finally reaching out to you too. I've been
Speaker 1: listening to you both for eight years now. O g fucker.
Speaker 1: Thank you. And you can remember the day I first
Speaker 1: came across your podcast. I was crying. Uh well, I
Speaker 1: was seventeen and insanely depressed as I was growing up
Speaker 1: in a mentally and physically abusive household. I was driving
Speaker 1: to school, which at the time was a forty minute compute,
Speaker 1: and trying to find new, basic, new music about fucking
Speaker 1: guys that would give me a confidence boost. We should
Speaker 1: go to our Instagram and go look at that playlist.
Speaker 1: Little did I know when I typed into that search bar,
Speaker 1: I would find you two in the results. I couldn't
Speaker 1: help but keep listening. Krin quickly resonated with me, as
Speaker 1: her hilarious, realist perception of the world was similar to
Speaker 1: how I viewed it, and Christina had that positive light.
Speaker 1: I was craving. I like how she nicely was like
Speaker 1: she was like I was gonna kill myself. And then
Speaker 1: I found creating and I was like, oh, this bitch
Speaker 1: wants I don't. You both are on the algetically yourselves
Speaker 1: and inspired me to finally be my own person too.
Speaker 1: Oh that's very nice. I've grown tremendously since then and
Speaker 1: in all aspects of life, and you've been such a
Speaker 1: positive influence. So I can't thank you enough for what
Speaker 1: you do. However, I've run into an issue I feel
Speaker 1: the need to write into the podcast about that I'm
Speaker 1: hoping you can help me with. When I turned twenty three,
Speaker 1: I had some dumb bitch self reflection and decided it
Speaker 1: probably wasn't healthy to continue my journey of relationship hopping.
Speaker 1: Looking back, I'm sure I was searching for the love
Speaker 1: and security I didn't receive as a child. That's always
Speaker 1: what it is. Anyway. I decided to join my generation's
Speaker 1: hook up culture, and man, it was fun. I learned
Speaker 1: how to be intimate with someone without getting my feelings
Speaker 1: involved and without searching for their validation. Very important men
Speaker 1: to me were disposable yum, and my dates with them
Speaker 1: were an opportunity to figure out what I liked. When
Speaker 1: I went on a date with them, I mentally checked
Speaker 1: off what I did and didn't like about them and
Speaker 1: even in the bathroom. I was an amazing the bedroom.
Speaker 1: Oh in the bedroom. That a world of difference, A
Speaker 1: world of difference. Boy, it was an amazing journey of
Speaker 1: self reflection and growth. Seriously, I would journal about it
Speaker 1: and believe the right person that checked all the good
Speaker 1: boxes would come into my life when it was time.
Speaker 1: Around this time, I also entered the sugar daddy world.
Speaker 1: I instantly matched with this guy who was very high
Speaker 1: up for an in an aerospace company. He was only
Speaker 1: He was my only sugar daddy, and I would meet
Speaker 1: him a couple of times a month. We bonded over art, cocktails,
Speaker 1: and meditation. He would mentor me on my career. Oh sexy,
Speaker 1: and we had pretty great sex for a thirty one
Speaker 1: year old a thirty one year age gap. Wow good nice,
Speaker 1: Good for him and you. He still sucked though. Don't
Speaker 1: get me wrong. I wasn't getting attached and I always
Speaker 1: made sure to grab my envelope before going home. And yeah,
Speaker 1: people paying an envelope of money, Yeah that's not hot.
Speaker 1: That's for the When I met my now boyfriend, he
Speaker 1: checks all of my boxes. We went on dates for
Speaker 1: about five months. As I was, of course meant fully
Speaker 1: testing him. He surprised me left and right, and still
Speaker 1: surprises me with his actions, character and open mindedness. I
Speaker 1: mentioned you guys by name as some of my favorite comedians,
Speaker 1: and he's a fan of the podcast good Man. This
Speaker 1: email is long enough. I don't need to go into anymore,
Speaker 1: but wow, wow, wow is all I have to say. Anyways,
Speaker 1: as we were casually dating, I felt myself get closer
Speaker 1: to him and more out of contact with sugar Daddy.
Speaker 1: I ended up breaking things off with my sugar Daddy
Speaker 1: because I knew I wanted uh, I wanted to be
Speaker 1: with my boyfriend. The catch. My boyfriend asked me to
Speaker 1: be official with him two days after that. I never
Speaker 1: brought it up. I don't know if that's a catch.
Speaker 1: I never brought Yeah, I never It's just like good time,
Speaker 1: the result of your action. I've never brought up in journaling.
Speaker 1: You got manifest. I never brought up the sugar daddy
Speaker 1: thing when we were casual Who would and have flat
Speaker 1: out lied to him when we would go on dates
Speaker 1: and he would ask why I was always at so
Speaker 1: many bills? Well, I wonder why the chase a t
Speaker 1: M man and only disposed just dispelled no it only
Speaker 1: needs there we go. I know I was getting close.
Speaker 1: This is one long ast email to tell you both
Speaker 1: that I've been with my boyfriend for a year and
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm hiding the secret from him. I've
Speaker 1: shared secrets with him that he's accepted from me for
Speaker 1: but I feel like this one might hit too close
Speaker 1: to home. Should I ever tell him? I would love
Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts. Thank you for everything. No, I
Speaker 1: think it's very healthy to keep secrets to yourself, especially
Speaker 1: in a relationship. You don't need to know every single
Speaker 1: thing about each other. Um. But that's something I realized
Speaker 1: as I got a little older. Why does it hit
Speaker 1: too close to home? Though? I don't understand, like like
Speaker 1: you're using like sayings but incorrectly. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't doesn't.
Speaker 1: It doesn't have it. It's too close to home, meaning
Speaker 1: like what's home? You're pussy like, I don't. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: truly like confused because it's like, Okay, it's not like
Speaker 1: he had a story about it about a sugar baby
Speaker 1: who did him wrong. It's not like you cheated on
Speaker 1: him with the sugar daddy. Like to me, it's like
Speaker 1: what I mean, I agree that you do need to
Speaker 1: keep secrets in a relationship, and most people, I think
Speaker 1: really funk that part up the relationship up and they
Speaker 1: have nothing for themselves. But it feels like it's weighing
Speaker 1: on you a bit, and that's the only reason why
Speaker 1: I might say to tell him, it's just like stuff
Speaker 1: like this. The longer you wait, the more it feels
Speaker 1: like a bigger secret than it is. And also all right,
Speaker 1: so you know how like when a little kid falls,
Speaker 1: if the parents make a big deal about the fall,
Speaker 1: then the kid perceives it as a big deal and
Speaker 1: cries harder. I think that's that same as the sentiment
Speaker 1: is true for relationships, because like I've like overreacted to
Speaker 1: things that actually, in my heart didn't bother me because
Speaker 1: of how a boyfriend has presented the information to me.
Speaker 1: And part of that was to funk with them, because
Speaker 1: you know, they thought they did something really wrong, so
Speaker 1: I wanted to act like they did do something really
Speaker 1: wrong so they couldn't get away with it. Yes, absolutely,
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, if you thought this was that bad,
Speaker 1: then let's make it that bad because because sometimes that
Speaker 1: is enough, you know, So like it it's like if
Speaker 1: you think you did something really bad and you feel
Speaker 1: that level of guilt, then it's like it's almost like
Speaker 1: you should pay at that level. This is fair be
Speaker 1: sucked up. But but it's just like, oh, you think
Speaker 1: you did something really fucked up to me, So now
Speaker 1: I have to act like you did something really sucked
Speaker 1: up to me because it took you this long to
Speaker 1: tell me it's not that fun up. I think it
Speaker 1: actually does work out that only happened one time. Whatever.
Speaker 1: That person doesn't out of my life. Um, but but yeah,
Speaker 1: it seems like it's weighing on you a lot. So
Speaker 1: if you're gonna tell him, tell him sooner rather later.
Speaker 1: But like, also, don't don't act like it's the biggest
Speaker 1: thing in the world, because it isn't. And you didn't
Speaker 1: do anything incorrectly, Like you didn't do anything wrong. I
Speaker 1: mean you could, Yeah, if you if you're concerned about
Speaker 1: how he's going to react, if if he's checking all
Speaker 1: these boxes that are really important to you in a
Speaker 1: loving relationship, then it seems like he's the kind of
Speaker 1: person that won't react poorly to that. Yeah. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I think sometimes the reason that we don't tell
Speaker 1: people things even though we want to, is because we
Speaker 1: are afraid of their reaction, you know. But it's like
Speaker 1: and then I also ask yourself, like would it bother
Speaker 1: you if you're possible Like you know, future husband was
Speaker 1: like anti sex worker, Like would that bother right? Right? Right? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 1: Maybe you were you were raised in a like a
Speaker 1: volatile household, so maybe maybe you were made to feel
Speaker 1: guilty about things that you have no business feeling guilty for,
Speaker 1: and this is just one of them, and that's why
Speaker 1: it's weighing on you. Also could just be a sexy secret.
Speaker 1: But like the fact that you took the time to
Speaker 1: write this email after all these years of listening to
Speaker 1: me says it's weighing on you heavily. And when I
Speaker 1: think when you have a secret weighing on your in
Speaker 1: a relationship, it can start to affect the relationship. Yes,
Speaker 1: for sure. Also, come see us live. I'm going on
Speaker 1: tour Baby Nyack, New York. I'm headlining Levity Live February
Speaker 1: two through fourth, Winnipeg, Canada, Rumors Comedy Club February ninth
Speaker 1: through the eleventh. Tickets are available on my website for
Speaker 1: those two dates as well as all my social media.
Speaker 1: Get on that link tree link and then No tickets
Speaker 1: are available yet for these following dates, but put them
Speaker 1: in your calendar. New Westminster, British Columbia, Canada. House of Comedy,
Speaker 1: March sixteenth through the eighteenth, Dallas, Texas, March through Boston.
Speaker 1: I'm doing Laugh Boston April fourteenth and fifte Edmonton, Canada.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be headlining the Comic Strip April, and then Detroit,
Speaker 1: Michigan House of Comedy. I will be headlining April and
Speaker 1: the nine and I have a Patreon that you can
Speaker 1: sign up for. It's five bucks a month. You get
Speaker 1: solo episodes, episodes of my solo podcast rather the Voices
Speaker 1: in our Heads, as well as up to four opportunities
Speaker 1: per month to do zoom group lamenting and sharing jags
Speaker 1: and molines and therapist um that happens. Yeah, five dollar
Speaker 1: level and UH Patreon dot com slash Christina Hutchinson UH.
Speaker 1: And then for me Texas, UH comeing to you in
Speaker 1: February Austin, Texas, UM at the Vulcan Gas Company Friday
Speaker 1: February tenth, and then go heading out to Houston, UH
Speaker 1: Texas at Rockefella's Saturday February eleven, and then the following weekend, Toronto, Canada.
Speaker 1: I am gonna be up inside You Friday the seventeenth
Speaker 1: and Saturday the eighteenth. There's four shows. Tickets for all
Speaker 1: these are currently available via the link tree link in
Speaker 1: my Instagram profile or at Karan Fisher dot com. Everything
Speaker 1: is organized for you, and of course you can always
Speaker 1: listen to me roast and analyze the news on Without
Speaker 1: a Country that's on the Gas Digital Network. But you
Speaker 1: can also just sign up on YouTube. Just subscribe for free.
Speaker 1: It's Without a Country podcast, very fun show, great times,
Speaker 1: all the fuck uh round nice and if you haven't
Speaker 1: rated and reviewed Guys We Fucked and followed us on
Speaker 1: the iTunes Apple podcast app, go ahead and do that.
Speaker 1: It's free. It's a great way to support the show,
Speaker 1: and then make sure you're following us on YouTube. We
Speaker 1: have a YouTube page dedicated to full episodes of Guys
Speaker 1: We Sucked on video. That's YouTube dot com, slash Guys
Speaker 1: We Fucked without the un Funk. That's all of our
Speaker 1: social media handles, including TikTok. And then we have a
Speaker 1: clips channel g w F clips Um that you should
Speaker 1: follow with shorter pieces and then old sketches with the
Speaker 1: Guys we fucked Vault. We're bringing back some old sketches
Speaker 1: that we did, and you can also watch The Dumb
Speaker 1: Bitch Woo Hour, which is a little sketch show that
Speaker 1: krit and I wrote and started in. Look at all
Speaker 1: the free content. We love you baby, yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: and then oh also this is this is from this
Speaker 1: is for Michael. I don't know if you follow Randy
Speaker 1: Newman on Instagram. I saw that he's having some health
Speaker 1: problems and he's like, yeah, yeah, time is of the
Speaker 1: essence because it said I woke up, and I said unfortunately,
Speaker 1: due to ongoing recovery from his most recent surgery. And
Speaker 1: that's not good because that means there's been a series
Speaker 1: of surgeries, Randy Newman is unable to safely travel or perform. Therefore,
Speaker 1: his European tour must be postponed. His medical team is
Speaker 1: currently unable to determine when he will be ready, and
Speaker 1: they will continue to work on his healing and monitor
Speaker 1: the progress so he can return to doing what he loves,
Speaker 1: playing music for his fans. So we just need big
Speaker 1: up sauce and prayers to Randy Newman because he can't
Speaker 1: die before Michael Costa Rally gets to meet him. That
Speaker 1: is true. Absolutely cannot come on God, Randy coming um
Speaker 1: and uh yeah, so I watched the Chrystaliah doc after
Speaker 1: looking at your stories Karna over the holiday break and
Speaker 1: what a holiday celebration that documentary. I loved it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I I bunkered myself up him in the bedroom and
Speaker 1: watched the whole thing. It was very interesting, um, because
Speaker 1: there's a lot more serious his his he's man, These
Speaker 1: sexual predators are so open about their predatory ways and
Speaker 1: everyone just like ha ha ha, you can't he's getting right.
Speaker 1: And then this doc was like, no, he's not kidding.
Speaker 1: He's like really the leader of accult and gets uh
Speaker 1: his initials branded on girls. Next Well, it's like it's okay,
Speaker 1: but it's also like the kind of that you would
Speaker 1: like start when you're in like middle school, like you know,
Speaker 1: like Paul and I started calling us ourselves the cruel
Speaker 1: horrors and the like. You know, it's like it's like
Speaker 1: Chrystaliah is so fucking embarrassing to himself. Yeah, that tattoo,
Speaker 1: that's why. Yeah, so you have to fund You have
Speaker 1: to when you're this level of embarrassing, that's when you
Speaker 1: have to fund a seventeen year old, because only a
Speaker 1: seventeen year old would think that like getting your getting
Speaker 1: branded is cool. Right. Do you imagine telling a thirty
Speaker 1: seven year old woman to get it crystal? Hey baby,
Speaker 1: how you get your initials tattooed on my neck? How
Speaker 1: about you go funk yourself Crystally, I'd rather getting the
Speaker 1: Yankees tattoo on my calf that a Crystal tattoo. And
Speaker 1: that's like the one of the worst tattoos that they're
Speaker 1: that exists, right right right? Well, I was I just
Speaker 1: google before before I started talking about it. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm curious. I haven't really heard much about it. I
Speaker 1: I tweeted about it after I saw your stories, Corren,
Speaker 1: and then I was just googling to see if Ednie
Speaker 1: of the shows got canceled, because one of the frustrating
Speaker 1: things is like, you know, making an example of people
Speaker 1: to be like, don't fun. What are you doing dude?
Speaker 1: What are you doing? Dude? Um? But it's there's a
Speaker 1: Rolling Stone article from January fourth. Um, oh, that's the
Speaker 1: one that so i I the filmmaker had actually contacted
Speaker 1: me after I put it in my stories, and he
Speaker 1: was like a Rolling Stone article is about to come out,
Speaker 1: and he gave me this woman's um information if anybody
Speaker 1: came forwards, I was like, well, I don't know because
Speaker 1: we're East coast. He does this on the road, and
Speaker 1: I'm curious, does anybody listening to guys who fund that
Speaker 1: got hit up by Chris d'eliah emails starbillis one show
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. Curious any seventeen year old listeners? Um,
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, we do have a bunch. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that's one thing I do appreciate about guys who sucked
Speaker 1: fans is that they'll go see live comedy, which I love,
Speaker 1: all around the country, all around the globe, and then
Speaker 1: if they do fun, a male comedian will know about it.
Speaker 1: And then if the male comedian misbehaves in anyway, we
Speaker 1: get told. And I kind of love that. Um, but yeah,
Speaker 1: it says Hollywood Improv removed the forty two year olds
Speaker 1: show on January eleventh from the schedule without explanation, weeks
Speaker 1: after the comedie was accused of predatory behavior. So I mean,
Speaker 1: he'll probably be back on the road soon because but
Speaker 1: wait that time, it makes no sense. How are they
Speaker 1: how is it say January eleventh? But then the articles
Speaker 1: from January four. What they were, I guess he had
Speaker 1: a show one January. So as of January four, he
Speaker 1: had a scheduled show at the eleven. I see what
Speaker 1: they're saying, and they canceled it. Um, but that's about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but that's because I think they were getting so much
Speaker 1: blowback because all these clubs in l A, you know.
Speaker 1: And and not to put point a finger at l
Speaker 1: A because New York book books tons of rapists too,
Speaker 1: U rapists and molesters and sex could people. We don't
Speaker 1: really have the square footage for a sex cult. Here
Speaker 1: right right, high right studio. We have a sex closet
Speaker 1: in New York. Sex studio, cab sex Van. Oh god, yeah,
Speaker 1: wild shit, but you know it's not wild. Was wild
Speaker 1: and a great intellectual way. Our guests, our guests today. Uh.
Speaker 1: He is a writer, podcaster, and opinion columnist who specializes
Speaker 1: in issues related to race, public policy, and applied ethics.
Speaker 1: And he does have a book coming out that he's
Speaker 1: currently writing. Very excited to read that when it does
Speaker 1: come out. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the show
Speaker 1: called and Hughes. Let it Up, Let it Up, Let
Speaker 1: it there's a little place I know everyone is wide
Speaker 1: and free. If you have a chance to go, then
Speaker 1: you better come and see. You've been working hot on baby,
Speaker 1: Now's the time to let it loose. If you're in
Speaker 1: a bad way. I got careers. All you have to
Speaker 1: do is set the group getting into you. Let it,
Speaker 1: let it up. I let listen. Now you got the
Speaker 1: feeling down and you're shaking awful blues. And when the
Speaker 1: spirit comes in time, let's see the people ship this sire.
Speaker 1: We are here with writer, podcaster author Coleman Hughes. So
Speaker 1: happy to have you on the show. The show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I've known you for a bit. You are what
Speaker 1: I would describe as a very smart guy. Thank You're smarty,
Speaker 1: You're an intellectual. Thank you. I love I love hanging
Speaker 1: out and talking with people who are more intellectually geared, because, uh,
Speaker 1: it teaches me. I'm very curious about everything and why
Speaker 1: it works and why people do what they do. And
Speaker 1: I feel like you have a really good grasp on
Speaker 1: on that. You're young, You're amazing, so you already have
Speaker 1: so much. You just know about a lot of stuff,
Speaker 1: and I think it's fascinating. Um. One of the first
Speaker 1: questions I wanted to ask you was how were you raised,
Speaker 1: Like what values were imparted on you as a kid,
Speaker 1: because I feel like they were good ones. A good question.
Speaker 1: So I was raised in suburban New Jersey. I had
Speaker 1: a great two parent home. My mom was a New
Speaker 1: Yorkan from the South Bronx who came from poverty to
Speaker 1: affluence in her generation. Was the first to go to college.
Speaker 1: And my dad was grew up middle class and he
Speaker 1: was like a Midwestern guy. So he's very nice. He
Speaker 1: says hi to everybody. My mom was like tough. She
Speaker 1: was from the Bronx and uh, in fact, she would
Speaker 1: she would make sure you always said she was from
Speaker 1: the South Bronx, not not from the Bronx, because that
Speaker 1: was the hardest place, in arguably the hardest borough, according
Speaker 1: to her. What a parent, Brooklyn would disagree. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: they were. They had a really great marriage. I think
Speaker 1: I saw a great example of of love and of
Speaker 1: um like a fairly functional marriage and the values instilled
Speaker 1: in me. So, my mother was book smart, and it
Speaker 1: was very important to her to be book smart, especially
Speaker 1: as a person of color, and because I know for
Speaker 1: her growing up in the South Bronx it was discouraged
Speaker 1: to read books. She was like teased and made faunos
Speaker 1: for being like kind of like Matilda type from that
Speaker 1: like Belle and Beauty and the Beasts. She's weird because
Speaker 1: she reads. And I remember when the weird Al Yankovic
Speaker 1: song White and Nerdy came out. Remember that everyone in
Speaker 1: my family thought it was hilarious except my mom because
Speaker 1: she was like wiser in association between whiteness and nerdiness.
Speaker 1: Why can't you be a black nerd? So that was
Speaker 1: my mom. And she was also a Marxist, and she
Speaker 1: was getting a PhD when I was young, and she
Speaker 1: thought it was never too young to read your children things.
Speaker 1: So when I was five years old, I she was
Speaker 1: reading me Marx and Emil Dirkheim and other famous socio
Speaker 1: sociologists that are that are Marxists. Um, and I didn't
Speaker 1: even know how. I remember thinking kind was pronounced dirt
Speaker 1: kind because like I was five, Yeah, and that's what
Speaker 1: five year olds care about. Sounds funny, yeah, exactly. Um.
Speaker 1: My dad, my dad was a big fan of Iron Rand,
Speaker 1: so he was totally on the other side of the
Speaker 1: political spectrum, but a big um you know, personal responsibility
Speaker 1: person and I think the combination of them. I think
Speaker 1: they raised us pretty well. Did you grab any like,
Speaker 1: did you get anything removed by these things that your
Speaker 1: mom was reading? You were just like one year on
Speaker 1: the other I want Celery with the peanut peanut butter.
Speaker 1: I was thinking about when she read marks to me.
Speaker 1: I still sometimes think that, you know, during interviews, so
Speaker 1: about ants on a log? Yeah, I mean just snacks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I always love snacks. Yeah, um, that's amazing. So so
Speaker 1: what so you had a childhood obviously, but like, was
Speaker 1: it lights? Was it? Was it very heavy? Like that
Speaker 1: sounds getting read marks and books of that nature. Usually
Speaker 1: I'm reading good Night Moon, just worrying about playing with
Speaker 1: my barbies. Yeah. Well, I think it's interesting some people
Speaker 1: would have described me as a serious kid after a
Speaker 1: certain point. I think it was like very silly and
Speaker 1: then I remember one time my dad told me you
Speaker 1: were really silly until about you know, nine years old,
Speaker 1: and then you suddenly got really serious. Did a pivot?
Speaker 1: Did something happen you just I don't know, You're just
Speaker 1: like I'm serious now. Was there any emphasis on fun
Speaker 1: and your child could because I say I would say
Speaker 1: that was like the one of the things lacking from
Speaker 1: my childhood was like an emphasis on fun, which I
Speaker 1: think is actually quite important for children. You mean an
Speaker 1: emphasis What do you mean my emphasis on fun? Like
Speaker 1: like you should funch, prioritize, I believe when you're a child, Yeah,
Speaker 1: go out in the woods, get some sticks, play. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think my dad was more like, let them do whatever,
Speaker 1: let them walk to school a little more hands off.
Speaker 1: My mom was like safety. Yeah, but yeah, I played
Speaker 1: a lot as I played with action figures, I played.
Speaker 1: I mean as I got older. I really had one
Speaker 1: interest from like age eleven to eighteen, which was music.
Speaker 1: So you're a very talented musician, thank you so, but
Speaker 1: I was obsessed. You know. I practiced hours and hours
Speaker 1: and hours a day and that was my pretty much
Speaker 1: my one interest outside of girls and getting decent grades.
Speaker 1: But so that was what was fun for me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: at that point, what values did you? Did you get
Speaker 1: a sex talk for your parents and they talked to
Speaker 1: you about dating when you enter when you started that,
Speaker 1: when you became that age where you wanted to date women,
Speaker 1: did they sit you down give you a talk? I
Speaker 1: definitely know they have a vivid memory of them sitting
Speaker 1: me and my sister down when we would have been,
Speaker 1: you know, at most five and seven years old, right
Speaker 1: by the front door of our house, laying out in
Speaker 1: encyclopedia with all the biology and the parts and explaining everything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you were five, like medical, Yeah, wow, what did you do?
Speaker 1: You remember what you thought when you were given this information?
Speaker 1: I knew that it was important and it was something
Speaker 1: to remember by the tone and the gravitas, but I
Speaker 1: could not conceptualize how any of it would be important,
Speaker 1: right because you weren't interested in girls at that point.
Speaker 1: You're five when you started, when you started dating, did
Speaker 1: they give you? Do they ever give you sex? Talk?
Speaker 1: Other than that anatomy's speech As a kid, I think
Speaker 1: my dad used to say, um, almost any decision in
Speaker 1: life you can take back, except having a kid. So
Speaker 1: you wear a condom? I think, like everything else, everything
Speaker 1: else is reversible, right, right. If you get into a
Speaker 1: bad marriage, you can untangle it. You can divorce at
Speaker 1: a large expense maybe, But having a kid, you cannot
Speaker 1: kill your kid very much society hopefully. Um. Interesting. So
Speaker 1: one of the things that I find so interesting about
Speaker 1: you is you or you have a stoicism in the
Speaker 1: midst of a chaotic world that I really admire. And
Speaker 1: there's this concept. I forget what author that I read
Speaker 1: that was talking about this, but I've heard it across
Speaker 1: the board kind of It's not anything incredibly unique, is activism?
Speaker 1: So like when you when you care about a cause,
Speaker 1: it's I've heard that it's it's important, almost imperative that
Speaker 1: you're not too emotionally invested in the cause, because then
Speaker 1: your activism is kind of for the wrong reasons. And
Speaker 1: I remember when I heard that, I'm like, everybody that
Speaker 1: I know that's really passionate about activism is way too
Speaker 1: emotionally invested in the cause. Well, I'm curious what your
Speaker 1: thoughts are on that. Have you observed that to be true?
Speaker 1: There is a very interesting tension there because on the
Speaker 1: one hand, emotion is what stirs you to go out there.
Speaker 1: And I think the way Bayard Rusting used to put it,
Speaker 1: who's my favorite historical activists like put put your body
Speaker 1: in the cog of the wheel of society, right, like
Speaker 1: put your body on the line, make the make the
Speaker 1: gear stop, so that you must be paid attention to
Speaker 1: that wires. Emotion, I mean, it requires emotion in the
Speaker 1: same way going to war requires this kind of like
Speaker 1: tribal patriotism and like you know, jinning people up like
Speaker 1: the Lord of Lord of the Ring scene where you clack,
Speaker 1: I got to clack the swords to get people into
Speaker 1: a mode, right, And it's it's a primal thing. It's
Speaker 1: actually a primal thing, but you need it to organize
Speaker 1: at scale. On the other hand, that same exact impulse
Speaker 1: leads people to ignore true facts on the other side,
Speaker 1: to exaggerate the hand that they actually have, and to
Speaker 1: be intellectually irresponsible in the claims that they're making, to
Speaker 1: demonize the enemy more than they ought to be. And
Speaker 1: all that stuff is is dangerous and I think by temperament,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm very sensitive to those excesses. How do you
Speaker 1: how do you stay calm when you're in the midst
Speaker 1: because you've had so many times moments in your life
Speaker 1: where you've debated really hot but it issues so so
Speaker 1: how do you how do you ground yourself? Like how
Speaker 1: do you stay tethered to yourself during like a heated debate. Well,
Speaker 1: I think the first and most important thing is to
Speaker 1: check yourself. Like everyone's first impulses, Oh, the person who's
Speaker 1: yelling at me, they're they're crazy, they're nuts, and then
Speaker 1: I'm going to look up an article that disproves them.
Speaker 1: It's like that is that's all well and good. And
Speaker 1: sometimes you you are right, and you ought to insist
Speaker 1: that you're right. But I think the first step is
Speaker 1: always to wander. Wait a minute, am I getting ahead
Speaker 1: of myself? And I did I get triggered by something
Speaker 1: that's making me be irrational? Did I say something I
Speaker 1: regret and now I'm digging into it just because I
Speaker 1: said it where I could just as easily go. Actually
Speaker 1: I didn't. Let me just start again? That was wrong.
Speaker 1: Let me So that's the first thing to do. First thing,
Speaker 1: I think you gotta start with you before you're like
Speaker 1: thinking of tactics of how to make this conversation better. Um.
Speaker 1: And then outside of that, I think you should try
Speaker 1: to listen well and meditation doesn't hurt um. But you know,
Speaker 1: there's no there's no formula for having a good conversation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you just kind of have to see, well, every and
Speaker 1: every conversation is a dance too. And then you you
Speaker 1: feel yourself get heated, you feel yourself kind of get
Speaker 1: carried away. And I think as as you as I
Speaker 1: get older, I can notice, well I'm getting pissed. I
Speaker 1: got to back off, you know. Um, So, how are
Speaker 1: like the things that you are passionate about or that
Speaker 1: you that you work out in the world, How did
Speaker 1: you get involved in them? And what are they? So? I? Um?
Speaker 1: As a high schooler, I was. I was into philosophy
Speaker 1: and music mainly. And out of high school I went
Speaker 1: to Juilliard for a bit and then I dropped out
Speaker 1: and went to Columbia and did philosophy there. And when
Speaker 1: I got there, I noticed this kind of strange thing
Speaker 1: happening in the subculture there where everyone was obsessed with
Speaker 1: race and they would talk about racism in America in
Speaker 1: a way that was more pessimistic than my grandparents, who
Speaker 1: lived under Jim Crow, and I found I found that
Speaker 1: to be interesting. I found it to be strange and
Speaker 1: to be crying out for an explanation, like, well, what
Speaker 1: is happening that I've now gone from a relatively privileged
Speaker 1: upbringing but to the mecca of privilege right to an
Speaker 1: Ivy League university which is extremely progressive, and yet people
Speaker 1: are more pessimistic than I've ever heard how So, like
Speaker 1: it's never going to get better kind of thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's never gonna get better. It's we're doomed. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: racism suffuses every inch of society and and and you
Speaker 1: know all people of color are inherently victims of it.
Speaker 1: And uh, I became curious because this this struck me
Speaker 1: as a frank frankly just total hyperbole. And I was cring,
Speaker 1: what what what is it doing psychologically for people? Because
Speaker 1: it's not actually true that people are experiencing racism every
Speaker 1: day on this campus. That's like a claim I would
Speaker 1: hear in the Columbia Specta it right, And I knew
Speaker 1: walking around on campus, like I think I experienced one
Speaker 1: truly racist incident in my four years at Columbia. UM.
Speaker 1: It's not to say everyone experiences the same, but you know,
Speaker 1: if I'm somewhere in the sample size of norm of
Speaker 1: like reality, there was a real disconnect between what people
Speaker 1: were saying and what the facts on the ground were.
Speaker 1: And I became curious about that gap. How do I
Speaker 1: explain that gap? And so for a year or two
Speaker 1: I would just read and write about it for for
Speaker 1: no audience. So I had like a Google dock of
Speaker 1: like dozens of dozens of pages like trying to figure
Speaker 1: out what where this is coming from, because it was
Speaker 1: new to me. It was not a pessimism that I
Speaker 1: got from the black half of my family. It was
Speaker 1: a pessimism that seemed unique to actually like higher upper class,
Speaker 1: upper crust and elite. And then eventually I started submitting.
Speaker 1: I wrote a little bit for the student newspaper, and
Speaker 1: then eventually for this online journal Coal which accepted my pieces.
Speaker 1: And then yeah, and then my writing I got again
Speaker 1: of following from there, then I started a podcast and
Speaker 1: here I am. Yeah, in those numbers. I mean when
Speaker 1: you say one racist, really racist incident in four years,
Speaker 1: I mean, are you or do you think the people
Speaker 1: who were writing and saying it was every day are
Speaker 1: they counting like microaggressions or because like obviously I'm going
Speaker 1: at only going at it from like, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: a female perspective and how I am treated as a woman.
Speaker 1: So and I think sometimes, like I was reading and
Speaker 1: coddling of the American mind, that sometimes something will happen
Speaker 1: and it is up to you know, the minority would
Speaker 1: whether that be being a woman, being a person of color,
Speaker 1: to decipher whether or not it was because you are
Speaker 1: a woman or because you are a person of color.
Speaker 1: And sometimes we just make the decision that this thing
Speaker 1: happened to us because of who we are, but we
Speaker 1: don't have any actual proof. Do you think maybe that's
Speaker 1: where it was coming from or are you think it
Speaker 1: was just like a late like liar both. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think James Baldwin has a quote in the Fire
Speaker 1: Next Time something to the effect that when you live
Speaker 1: in a society with actual racism, it can be difficult
Speaker 1: to distinguish between the real and the imagined. Um so
Speaker 1: there is it permeates your psyche And yeah, totally it can.
Speaker 1: And um So that one thing is how you interpret
Speaker 1: a quote unquote micro aggression. If someone asks you, oh,
Speaker 1: where are you from? Oh know, where you really from?
Speaker 1: That kind of thing or one that I've gotten, You know,
Speaker 1: one that I've gotten my whole life is that I'm articulate.
Speaker 1: So I have two choices of how to interpret that.
Speaker 1: One is to say, oh, they're saying, they're saying I'm
Speaker 1: articulate for a black person, Right, they think the mere
Speaker 1: fact that I can string a few sentences together is
Speaker 1: amazing because of my skin color. Right. It could be that,
Speaker 1: or it could be the fact that I actually am
Speaker 1: articulate most people are most people or not. It's actually
Speaker 1: I don't have many friends who I would describe as articulate.
Speaker 1: You would certainly be one of them, because I just
Speaker 1: know how to voice things in a calm manner in
Speaker 1: a very intellectual way. But that's not too over everybody's head.
Speaker 1: But I don't think that because you're black. I think
Speaker 1: that's just really smart and so exactly so, I think
Speaker 1: what I can tell you is this the whole subculture
Speaker 1: at Columbia was teaching me to interpret that kind of
Speaker 1: a compliment in the racist way. My reason, my my
Speaker 1: reason would tell me to interpret it in the charitable ways.
Speaker 1: Out of a hundred yeah, that's also the way to
Speaker 1: interpret it that best suits you. And I think sometimes
Speaker 1: we have to, uh just take take things in the
Speaker 1: way that it's going to help our lives, whether or
Speaker 1: not that is even true. That's kind of like the
Speaker 1: advice they give you, like during a breakup or relations
Speaker 1: like relationships experts will be like, just interpret it in
Speaker 1: a way that is beneficial to you because that helps
Speaker 1: with the healing process. That's a good point. I was
Speaker 1: talking to that this guy, the guy who does the
Speaker 1: Hidden Brain podcast. I'm yeah, yeah, Um, I forget his name,
Speaker 1: but I know that podcast Indian guy. He so he
Speaker 1: was he he said they had a whole podcast dedicated
Speaker 1: to this question of do you actually want to know
Speaker 1: if you've been discriminated against. It's a very interesting question
Speaker 1: because the obvious answer is just of course I want
Speaker 1: to know. You want to be ignorant to it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in a situation of uncertainty, did I actually lose this
Speaker 1: opportunity because of my race or does it just because
Speaker 1: I wasn't qualified and it was totally above board? Um.
Speaker 1: He actually came to the interesting conclusion based on some
Speaker 1: research that it may be psychologically beneficial to be the
Speaker 1: sort of person that, when discriminated against, actually doesn't think
Speaker 1: about it. Ah, And why I can guess, but because
Speaker 1: like to to feel that the world is a little
Speaker 1: bit against you can end up harming you. But then
Speaker 1: then you don't put yourself out there, then you become bitter.
Speaker 1: Until that makes sense. To have a little bit of
Speaker 1: a slight delusional optimism may actually be beneficial to you
Speaker 1: in your life. That's like why I walk around like
Speaker 1: thinking I'm a ten when I'm not. But it helps
Speaker 1: like Yeah, because because I'm walking around with the air
Speaker 1: of something like like who's that girl? Yeah? With that walk? Yeah.
Speaker 1: You ever like if you ever have, like have a
Speaker 1: conversation with someone and they just kind of say state
Speaker 1: as if it is fact that they are an attractive
Speaker 1: person that you would want to go on a date with,
Speaker 1: and even though you're looking at their face and you're
Speaker 1: going this, I don't think there's something wrong with my eyes? Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's I find that to be a mesmerizing quality. I've
Speaker 1: definitely seen it written in a lot of articles that
Speaker 1: depressed people sometimes have a more quote unquote accurate read
Speaker 1: of facts. If like if if if I give a
Speaker 1: TED talk, if you give a hundred people to give
Speaker 1: a TED talk, the people that are depressed, they will
Speaker 1: give an accurate reading of what the audience thought of them.
Speaker 1: They will say, you know, the audience thought I was
Speaker 1: about a five out of ten, right, And the people
Speaker 1: that aren't depressed will overrate themselves. So there's there's some
Speaker 1: some way in which a delusional confidence, you know, not
Speaker 1: getting up to Kanye and Trump levels, a little bit
Speaker 1: of a healthy delusional confidence maybe a good thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what what has what is being in relationships, thought you
Speaker 1: define the right person to be in a relationship with.
Speaker 1: It's taught you that. No, no, no, that's what it's
Speaker 1: taught me. So like I I I judge myself to
Speaker 1: be in a very good relationship. It's one I really
Speaker 1: enjoy um. And it's been a couple of years and
Speaker 1: I like I I love it. And sometimes, you know,
Speaker 1: as a twenty six year old guy, most of my
Speaker 1: friends are still not quite really in that situation. Some
Speaker 1: want to be, some don't. But sometimes they will look
Speaker 1: at me and say, oh, you've been in a like
Speaker 1: it seems like a really comfortable and functional and great
Speaker 1: relationship for several years, Like what what what's the secret?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I don't know. I wasn't good in
Speaker 1: my relationships before this. I was not really I wouldn't
Speaker 1: say that you were so young. Yeah, But also it's like, well,
Speaker 1: making mistakes, you have to make mistakes yourself. I learned,
Speaker 1: like advice is not that helpful necessarily unless because you
Speaker 1: don't know which advice applies to you until you write.
Speaker 1: Everybody's gonna give you advice from their bias perspective. That's right,
Speaker 1: As I say, all advices autobiographical but very you know,
Speaker 1: I found like a lot of the things that we're
Speaker 1: problems with me in previous relationships or not problems when
Speaker 1: I met the right person. Yeah, that's what we learned
Speaker 1: from this podcast. The pairing of two people is people
Speaker 1: are so unique, and you and and and you know,
Speaker 1: Sally are going to be so much more unique than
Speaker 1: you and Lisa, Like it's just you're gonna be a
Speaker 1: it's a completely different to me. But every relationship is
Speaker 1: like h like its own little organism when two people
Speaker 1: come together, and if you're bringing you don't know which
Speaker 1: traits are going to trigger the other person and how
Speaker 1: you deal with in securities and all of that stuff.
Speaker 1: What were some of the things that previously were considered
Speaker 1: problems that you have now decided are just unique qualities.
Speaker 1: I thought I didn't like p d A. But I didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't didn't like with somebody with the other person, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess like somehow the combination of our chemistry like
Speaker 1: didn't feel right. Yeah, right, not even not just from
Speaker 1: my perspective, but from from there's too. Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: with another person, I realized, actually, it just does work
Speaker 1: and it's nice and I do like it. But I
Speaker 1: thought that was a trait of me, right, I thought
Speaker 1: it was a trait to me that I would have
Speaker 1: to oh like, yeah, not a p d A guy.
Speaker 1: And when I go on days after, you know, let
Speaker 1: people know not you know, we have to talk about that.
Speaker 1: I was like, would never because I would never put
Speaker 1: that I think a bad thing or a good thing.
Speaker 1: To me, that's just a thing. It's not it's not
Speaker 1: negative or positives. But would you were definition that that
Speaker 1: ended up being not a part of myself necessarily? So
Speaker 1: were you in a relationship with with anybody at some
Speaker 1: point where you both tried p d A but you
Speaker 1: both didn't wasn't right? And you're like this is apt
Speaker 1: and uncomfortable. Yes, you blame it on the p d A. Huh,
Speaker 1: what else have you learned? Like, I feel like relationships,
Speaker 1: relationships are really a good mirror to any insecurities that
Speaker 1: we may have. Have any popped up with you with
Speaker 1: romantic relationships and how have you dealt with them? So
Speaker 1: I didn't realize I was a jealous person or that
Speaker 1: I had a jealousy issue at all until I got
Speaker 1: in serious relationships because I never viewed I always more
Speaker 1: or less I felt like I could celebrate someone's success.
Speaker 1: I had no problems. No, no, no, I guess we
Speaker 1: have the same word jealousy to describe two. I guess
Speaker 1: envy maybe the other. But you know, I didn't know
Speaker 1: that I was someone that was capable of great jealous rage.
Speaker 1: Yeah I am No. I didn't guess it either until
Speaker 1: I was in a situation, in a relationship, and I
Speaker 1: realized and I saw this side of myself. Was like,
Speaker 1: I had no idea I had the capacity to like
Speaker 1: fly off the handle. I didn't know because I had
Speaker 1: never done that in any other context in my life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: how you achieve something you wanted to achieve? What do
Speaker 1: you mean? Because because because we were we were interpreting
Speaker 1: the jealousy as like a jealousy of another guy. And
Speaker 1: then but you said it was more like envy, as
Speaker 1: in like achievements, So right, So I guess I said
Speaker 1: it confusingly like until I was in serious relationships in
Speaker 1: my twenties, I didn't think of myself as a person
Speaker 1: capable of great jealousy or great anger to the point
Speaker 1: where they would be like problems, right, right, Because I
Speaker 1: had never really been so jealous of a friend that
Speaker 1: it became a problem where you know, I've seen people
Speaker 1: people have that problem. Jealousy could be an ugly feeling too, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is, it is. But it turned out that the
Speaker 1: first time I was in a situation where I was
Speaker 1: capable of feeling jealousy of another guy, I like, I
Speaker 1: had no antibodies for it. I had no No one
Speaker 1: ever does when that first pops up, especially when you
Speaker 1: don't think you're really capable of exhibiting that a lot.
Speaker 1: How did you deal with it? Poorly? As we all
Speaker 1: do when we learned, would you go up to the
Speaker 1: did you go up to your partner at the time?
Speaker 1: Did you go up to the guy? Yeah, I probably
Speaker 1: screamed at her or something crazy, um like on the
Speaker 1: street in New York. Yeah. Yeah, I've been like I've
Speaker 1: been like the psycho guy screaming on the street. And
Speaker 1: then good thing Christina didn't see you. She would have
Speaker 1: stepped in. Yeah, like are you okay? Man? Are you okay?
Speaker 1: I've seen so many instances of couples in New York
Speaker 1: where the guys just screaming at the girl and I'm like,
Speaker 1: are you okay? And she's like I'm fine. I'm like,
Speaker 1: all right, well both of you. Yeah, but yeah, that's
Speaker 1: usually how how how do you come back from that?
Speaker 1: Like can you repair? Because I know there's certain moments
Speaker 1: in relationships where I know, psychologically it's called splitting, like
Speaker 1: a lot that can happen a lot, like in a
Speaker 1: traumatic household with a parent and a child, where the
Speaker 1: parent just betrays the child's trust so much that even
Speaker 1: if the kid doesn't realize, you are emotionally splitting from
Speaker 1: a person. And I think if you've anybody has been
Speaker 1: in a relationship, especially when it's ended, which most of
Speaker 1: them do you, there's a moment A lot of times
Speaker 1: it's usually not a build up, there's like a moment
Speaker 1: where you split. Did you feel that when you were
Speaker 1: exhibiting those emotions? You know? No, I I never felt
Speaker 1: that split, and the split never happened from her end
Speaker 1: on on jealousy issues either. Yeah. So I was able
Speaker 1: to resolve it just by like talking through it and
Speaker 1: also knowing when to stop talking through it because it's
Speaker 1: you have to handle it yourself. Can't be the dead horror, Yeah, yeah, there,
Speaker 1: and there's certain things where, yeah, you have to pick
Speaker 1: yourself up from this and can't rely, can't ease the
Speaker 1: other person is like an emotional crutch, and that's one
Speaker 1: of those things I just I the only way I've
Speaker 1: gotten better about it is by being in that situation,
Speaker 1: like feeling that in myself and not being like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is the jealousy thing. Let's not let's not go crazy.
Speaker 1: This is actually this is going to go away if
Speaker 1: I can. It's a wave. Yeah, it's temporary. I don't
Speaker 1: have to just acted out in all its insane toxicity
Speaker 1: for it to go away. It will actually go away.
Speaker 1: If I'm less toxic in my behavior is about it, it
Speaker 1: it will still go away. Yeah, Because I think there's
Speaker 1: a there's this RD when jealousy pops up, or or
Speaker 1: insecurity of any kind, which I guess is what jealousy
Speaker 1: would come from, some type of insecurity. There's there's this
Speaker 1: desire in people where where do I put this? What
Speaker 1: do I do with it? And really, unfortunately the best
Speaker 1: answer is you don't do anything with it. You just
Speaker 1: breathe and then it passes through you and it's so
Speaker 1: hard to not act on it, but you get better
Speaker 1: over time. What what are your values and relationships? Like?
Speaker 1: What do you value out of our romantic relationship? What
Speaker 1: do you mean by that? What are some possible answers like, like, um, Like,
Speaker 1: I love the closeness that I feel with somebody. I
Speaker 1: love feeling supportive. I think the sex is actually is
Speaker 1: a is a very bonding thing for two people to
Speaker 1: do in your Typically, if you're in a monogamous relationship,
Speaker 1: you're only doing that with your partner. So that's a
Speaker 1: way to feel It's just a way to feel a
Speaker 1: type of closest that you don't get with anybody else.
Speaker 1: I think that's right. I love that closeness. I love
Speaker 1: that intimacy. That's what I've always loved about relationships. Yeah,
Speaker 1: have you are your relationship guy? Like? Have you had
Speaker 1: a lot? Yeah? I've always been a relationship guy. I've
Speaker 1: I've never been like a casual sex guy. I have
Speaker 1: done that at periods of being single between relationships and
Speaker 1: have generally not enjoyed it that much. Yeah. What what
Speaker 1: did you not like about it? Well, if I like
Speaker 1: you enough, then I'm going to want to be in
Speaker 1: a relationship with you, and that's that's how I've always
Speaker 1: felt about it. And if I don't like you enough,
Speaker 1: then it becomes this thing of like we have sex
Speaker 1: a couple of times, and then I'm not into it,
Speaker 1: and then I feel all this guilt if she's into it,
Speaker 1: and the whole sum total of the experience was like
Speaker 1: not worth the pleasure we felt for a short period.
Speaker 1: That's been my experience because there's some guys that love
Speaker 1: like chasing women, like love the chase, the thrill of
Speaker 1: the chase. That's never been of interest to you and
Speaker 1: your pisces, right, your pisces guy? Are you emotional? Very emotional? Insensitive? Um?
Speaker 1: I think, I mean in some ways, I'm sure. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. I think I probably come
Speaker 1: across as like you said, stoic. Yeah, but yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I I can tell you I I cry at
Speaker 1: or more of movies I watch. Yeah, and they're not
Speaker 1: always good crying at movies. I feel like, yess something
Speaker 1: like when there was you know, for many many years,
Speaker 1: I cried like three times a year, like a year,
Speaker 1: like not at all, but I would always cry during movies,
Speaker 1: And I think that's like a different kind of cry.
Speaker 1: Are you someone who cries often based on like like
Speaker 1: interpersonal Do you cry at the news? No? I don't
Speaker 1: think so. Um, I may have, I may have cried
Speaker 1: when Trump was elected in Yeah, in retrospect that I
Speaker 1: cried too, But it was because Hillary lost, not because
Speaker 1: Trump won. That I just felt so bad for her.
Speaker 1: That's all she wanted. Yeah, I just felt I felt
Speaker 1: how bad she wanted that for years. Yeah, there's just
Speaker 1: something about someone feeling at their dreams so publicly that
Speaker 1: really broke my heart. Yeah. Man. And and and to
Speaker 1: think of that as a failure when she's when she
Speaker 1: when in totality, it's a huge success for her life.
Speaker 1: You know. It was a bummer, totally, big old bummer.
Speaker 1: We were to room a theater filled with Hillary balloons.
Speaker 1: We thought she won. Yeah she didn't. We were in
Speaker 1: l A And me and my friend who was half Mexican,
Speaker 1: we cooked Mexican food on the election night in order
Speaker 1: to celebrate Trump's loss, right about Mexican. Yeah, And you know,
Speaker 1: I think, just in retrospect, I don't know the cry
Speaker 1: was justified. I don't know if Trump did anything as
Speaker 1: bad in his four years as what I thought he
Speaker 1: would do when when I was crying, you know, this
Speaker 1: is the time when he was talking about putting Muslims
Speaker 1: on a registry and stuff like that, Like it's hard
Speaker 1: to get stuff done four years. Yeah, but but I
Speaker 1: also think he didn't turn out to be the fascist
Speaker 1: that we worried he was. He turned out to be
Speaker 1: much more of the you know, con Man used Carl
Speaker 1: Salesman than hitler um. But based on that perception, based
Speaker 1: on what he was saying at the time, that that
Speaker 1: I think I did cry, but I don't think I've
Speaker 1: cried about politics since then. Yeah, and there's this, there's
Speaker 1: this notion. I don't know this if this was at
Speaker 1: the root of your feelings during this, but the the
Speaker 1: fact that he was just saying such racist ship, so
Speaker 1: many sexist things, and the whole grab him by the
Speaker 1: pussy remark was he said so many things that to
Speaker 1: me are absolutely heartbreaking for a political leader. Like I
Speaker 1: knew he was trash. I always knew he was like
Speaker 1: kind of this trashy Long Island guy or Queen's guy um.
Speaker 1: But the part that made me sad is like people
Speaker 1: didn't care enough about his racism and his sexism to
Speaker 1: not vote for him. And it's like what you were
Speaker 1: saying earlier about like when you got to Colombia and
Speaker 1: you realized there was this pessimism with with racism and
Speaker 1: how you you viewed people talking about it. It's hard
Speaker 1: to not get pessimistic and just really low and down
Speaker 1: about the state of of humanity, but humanity in America
Speaker 1: because there's this like very particular brand of obnoxiousness in
Speaker 1: America that I it's so much more palpable when I
Speaker 1: go to other countries and you realize the population is
Speaker 1: just calmer, They're just like chill, they're not there's not
Speaker 1: a lot of horn honking, there's not a lot of yelling.
Speaker 1: I know New York is a very unique bubble, but
Speaker 1: I would say there's a lot of anger in America,
Speaker 1: and it just feels like that will never get dispelled.
Speaker 1: Like how do you like people? You know when you're
Speaker 1: saying when you feel jealousy, there's this innate instinct to
Speaker 1: want to do something about it immediately. I can't imagine
Speaker 1: like the temperature of where everybody's at in America of
Speaker 1: like they're just still trying to like pound on the
Speaker 1: door and do something about their rage when it's like
Speaker 1: he just gotta meditae and calm down. But I don't know,
Speaker 1: like do you ever get like lost in pessimism for
Speaker 1: like the direction of the world. I know it's a
Speaker 1: big question, but no, not really. I think that the
Speaker 1: media has a financial interest in always reporting the worst
Speaker 1: thing that happens today. And yeah, they make money off
Speaker 1: of telling us horrible things, and there are always gonna
Speaker 1: be enough horrible things to report on, and often the
Speaker 1: good things are unseen. Like there's good things happening every day,
Speaker 1: they're just never reported on. And so if you pay
Speaker 1: attention to the news um which you know obviously is
Speaker 1: not an accurate representation of the world, it's a very
Speaker 1: curated zero point zero zero zero zero or one percent
Speaker 1: of events that happened today, which will get you to
Speaker 1: watch TV or click on the article or whatever. I
Speaker 1: think it gives you a skewed perspective. And I'm influenced
Speaker 1: by the guys like Stephen Pinker and Hans Rosing that
Speaker 1: shown a lot of like countervailing progress occurring. At the
Speaker 1: same time, that's hard to talk to anyone whose life
Speaker 1: is worse than their grandparents. I'm in America. Let's say,
Speaker 1: if you sample your friends of all classes and backgrounds
Speaker 1: in America, most of them they talked to their grandparents,
Speaker 1: and their grandparents say, you have a better hand than
Speaker 1: I did, And that's the background fact behind all of
Speaker 1: the you know, admittedly really crazy, horrible issues we do
Speaker 1: have to look at every day. Yeah, and it feels
Speaker 1: like all the news organizations just regurgitate the same stories.
Speaker 1: Like if there's one story that's breaking that's really bad
Speaker 1: and really brutal, you you flip the channel, it's on
Speaker 1: every damn news source and you're just getting you get
Speaker 1: inundated with it, and it's just so exhausting. What do
Speaker 1: you think is the state of masculinity right now? State
Speaker 1: of masculinity? That's an interesting question. So I just talked
Speaker 1: to this guy, Richard Reeves on my podcast. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: saw that interview. Yeah, that was a great one. So
Speaker 1: he made a persuasive argument argument to me just about
Speaker 1: the especially about the educational system, which is the fact
Speaker 1: that wind the clock back to the fifties and sixties,
Speaker 1: you had way more men graduating college, um, I think
Speaker 1: possibly even graduating high school and certainly basically only men
Speaker 1: at the you know, getting PhD s and and that
Speaker 1: kind of thing. And that was just a pure a
Speaker 1: social barrier to a woman trying to do that, like
Speaker 1: you just weren't expected to do that. It was just
Speaker 1: don't do that. Once that barrier was lifted, what we
Speaker 1: now see is the beginning of a trend in the
Speaker 1: opposite direction, where considerably more women graduate high school than men,
Speaker 1: go to college than men, and and so forth. And
Speaker 1: that's a that's an interesting phenomenon that no one would
Speaker 1: have predicted. So the question is what what didn't they
Speaker 1: see in the sixties that that would have led them
Speaker 1: to not predict that. And Richard Reeves I think argues
Speaker 1: persuasively that there's something about um, the structure of school
Speaker 1: that is a little bit easier for your average girl
Speaker 1: than your average boy. Um girls get better grades in
Speaker 1: high school, for for instance, And so the more and
Speaker 1: more society invests importance in book learning, there is like
Speaker 1: a like a there's a class of boys that are
Speaker 1: disadvantaged in that system. They're like the boys that get
Speaker 1: I would not count myself as one of these because
Speaker 1: I was good at school. But a d h D
Speaker 1: diagnosis are like four to one male to female, which
Speaker 1: is interesting and strange for males for everyone female getting diagnosis.
Speaker 1: But is it kind of split down the middle in
Speaker 1: generally think like is it but we're just not seeing
Speaker 1: it in women? Or girls, like the way autism is
Speaker 1: not is is harder to detect in women, or not
Speaker 1: detected as frequently for whatever reason. That's a good question.
Speaker 1: My instinct is that actually more boys have the symptomology
Speaker 1: of a d h D than girls do. But my
Speaker 1: point there would be, you know, like the a boy
Speaker 1: that is restless in class, for instance, or a for
Speaker 1: that matter, a kid that can't bring themselves to sit
Speaker 1: down for six straight hours and do the regurgitation thing.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure there's anything wrong with that kid. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure that kid necessarily has a condition. And in
Speaker 1: many other societies and in many other times in history,
Speaker 1: no one would find any problem with this person. They
Speaker 1: would just fit in somewhere in society that suited their
Speaker 1: personality type. And today, if you if you struggle in
Speaker 1: second grade to do that thing, bam a d h
Speaker 1: D diagnosis adderall, which is a crazy, crazily powerful drug,
Speaker 1: specially for a child. Yeah, and you said something interesting
Speaker 1: on that episode about like, yeah, it's really difficult to
Speaker 1: be interested in something that bores you and it's it's
Speaker 1: so of what you're learning unless unless you were, you know,
Speaker 1: really encouraged by your parents to be curious about the world.
Speaker 1: I would love to say that most kids are, but
Speaker 1: the more I talked to people, I'm like, if your
Speaker 1: parents have mental illness, if your parents didn't value that
Speaker 1: stuff you, you didn't have this like push. Your kids
Speaker 1: need to be nurtured and raised, like their spirit needs
Speaker 1: to be nurtured. So if your spirit wasn't nurtured and
Speaker 1: you don't even know like the value of being curious
Speaker 1: about the world and it's how exciting it is to
Speaker 1: learn about something, then everything is going to be boring
Speaker 1: to you. So this is Yeah, this is one gripe
Speaker 1: I had with the way writing is taught. So the
Speaker 1: way writing is taught, at least in my experience growing up,
Speaker 1: was that here's a book that you probably don't care about,
Speaker 1: and now we're going to teach you to write by
Speaker 1: asking you to write about it. Yeah. Oh, I hated
Speaker 1: writing book reports. Yeah. So I'm I'm an adult that's
Speaker 1: considered a pretty good writer and I made a career
Speaker 1: off of it. And I don't think that I was
Speaker 1: any any notable kind of writer in high school when
Speaker 1: I was writing about stuff I didn't care about. When
Speaker 1: I started really caring about specific topics, in the world.
Speaker 1: I realized, I want to communicate what I'm saying as
Speaker 1: concisely and precisely as as possible, and that urge let me,
Speaker 1: let me lead me to figure out how to write well.
Speaker 1: But absent that, I don't think I could have learned
Speaker 1: how to write well. Writing so fire behind you, fire
Speaker 1: behind it. So I mean, I'm not I don't have
Speaker 1: a grand plan to overhaul things. But like if I
Speaker 1: were teaching someone to write, I would not just assign
Speaker 1: a random book from the syllabus. I would ask them
Speaker 1: what they're deeply interested in, and it could be anything,
Speaker 1: but getting first that kindle of wanting to communicate something
Speaker 1: that maybe a little tough to communicate. That's where like
Speaker 1: good writing comes from. Yeah, when you want to figure
Speaker 1: out how you want to say this, or want to
Speaker 1: feel like you're like this, this this work does something
Speaker 1: in me. It stirs something and me I don't even
Speaker 1: know what it is yet, but like finding out what
Speaker 1: that is within yourself through writing is so valuable and
Speaker 1: so exciting. But like I don't remember anybody, like when
Speaker 1: I was in middle school in high school, like no
Speaker 1: one had like a passion like you guys don't have
Speaker 1: This is interesting to me just because we were both
Speaker 1: raised in New Jersey, and New Jersey actually has a
Speaker 1: surprisingly good education system. Um, and because I was like
Speaker 1: my experience in Union, which is a lower income town,
Speaker 1: was quite different. Like we had a lot of creative
Speaker 1: We had creative writing as a singular course and I
Speaker 1: in that I took, and we had a lot of
Speaker 1: we had we had journals where we would free right.
Speaker 1: That was very encouraged. And I had a lot of
Speaker 1: opportunities to write about just I mean, I obviously had
Speaker 1: to do book reports too, but I can recall them
Speaker 1: because I love writing, and I couldn't recall in my
Speaker 1: mind many opportunities that I was given to write about
Speaker 1: things that I was passionate about because I also hate
Speaker 1: doing book reports, but even a research paper like I
Speaker 1: was able to, you know, choose, you know, obviously like
Speaker 1: a little goth girl. I loved writing about Edgar Allan Poe,
Speaker 1: you know, my boyfriend who's dead. Yeah, but yeah, and
Speaker 1: and journaling and creative writing and and then I worked
Speaker 1: for the school newspaper to uh to forcing my writing
Speaker 1: on people early. That was a fun thing. Um. But
Speaker 1: you didn't have a lot of because I mean, I
Speaker 1: think I think one of the problems with school is
Speaker 1: certainly that, uh, we're not encouraged to be free thinkers.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's my biggest criticism of the education system.
Speaker 1: And I think that's definitely on purpose, because you don't
Speaker 1: want a bunch of free thinkers. That that makes for
Speaker 1: a chaotic society and no one's going to sign up
Speaker 1: for the military, right, Yeah. Yeah, Well, I'm glad you
Speaker 1: had that. I mean, I'm sure I had some of
Speaker 1: that stuff. I definitely had, like free writing. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: I guess my in my memory, when they're teaching you
Speaker 1: the nuts and bolts of writing and the papers they're correcting,
Speaker 1: and this is how grammar goes, and this is how
Speaker 1: to write a strong sentence, especially like this, how to
Speaker 1: write a strong sentence, that kind of pedagogy, that kind
Speaker 1: of teaching. I feel it doesn't work unless you first
Speaker 1: have a really strong thought. Yeah. Yeah, and I don't. Actually,
Speaker 1: I don't don't really know many people. What's really sure,
Speaker 1: there's not a lot. Yeah, I found the times I write, well,
Speaker 1: it's because I spent a lot of time thinking about
Speaker 1: the thing, thinking about exactly why I care about Yeah, what,
Speaker 1: and then the right good writing tends to flow from there. Sure,
Speaker 1: so it's a good symbiosis between your thoughts and emotions,
Speaker 1: because I think when you're too overpowered by your emotions,
Speaker 1: you're just you're thinking, brain goes off. And but at
Speaker 1: the same time, if you have known, if nothing sparks
Speaker 1: your emotions or touches your emotions in any way, that's
Speaker 1: what boredom is, right, I mean, that's what no one's
Speaker 1: gonna want to write about something that doesn't move them
Speaker 1: in any way. Right. Um, you talked to Richard too
Speaker 1: in that episode. I really loved that episode about the
Speaker 1: feminization of society in what other ways other than the
Speaker 1: way school is structured, are or is society feminized? So
Speaker 1: so that yeah, that's an interesting thesis. I think the
Speaker 1: one that came to my mind in that conversation was, um,
Speaker 1: the the way bullying has talked about. You talk to
Speaker 1: anyone like over forty or fifty, I think, um, the
Speaker 1: notion that bullying is like a problems as to be
Speaker 1: solved by teachers and institutions, or to be fought at
Speaker 1: a national level, just like wasn't a thing. It was
Speaker 1: just like girls don't be a pussy. And I think Um,
Speaker 1: it was. You know, that's the influence of the parts
Speaker 1: of masculinity that are toxic, right, Like boys left to
Speaker 1: their own devices with no outside influences often tend towards
Speaker 1: that kind of behavior and that kind of cruelty. And
Speaker 1: I think probably with the increasing power of women in society,
Speaker 1: that is that's probably been one effect, is that bullying
Speaker 1: has talked about as at minimum like a problem, like
Speaker 1: not something that's acceptable. But there's this irony though that
Speaker 1: like when a girl bullys you, like I've been bullied
Speaker 1: by other girls, it hurts. They girls can cut deep
Speaker 1: with their words in a way that men just don't
Speaker 1: even think are capable of. Like a could punch you
Speaker 1: in the face, but a girl can punch you in
Speaker 1: the heart. That, um, not that I remember. I don't
Speaker 1: think I was. Do you deal with a lot of
Speaker 1: back You deal with a lot of backlash online just
Speaker 1: for having opinions? Right? How do you handle that? Um? Well?
Speaker 1: Better and better as I've gotten older. I mean I
Speaker 1: think the first time I really got started to get
Speaker 1: backlash on Twitter, I reacted to it. I was kind
Speaker 1: of stunned. Yeah, I was like, you don't know how
Speaker 1: much it hurts to have a hundred strangers bullying you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I do, yeah, but yeah, you do. You
Speaker 1: know it's awful. You want to crawl into a hole.
Speaker 1: But it's actually it's it's like worse than you would predict. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it depends for me what it's for, like
Speaker 1: you know, ugly conbucket, not those things. But I think
Speaker 1: it's when it's when it's to me, when it's something
Speaker 1: about you that you know not to be true, and
Speaker 1: there's but there's no way of convincing other people like
Speaker 1: that a huge misread sucks. Yes, that's right, that's terrible.
Speaker 1: And how do you how do you gripe with that?
Speaker 1: Like people just assuming a trait about you that you
Speaker 1: know you don't even possess. Let it go. That is,
Speaker 1: there is no solutions on Twitter because we are obviously
Speaker 1: we're evolved wired to treat every person as if they're
Speaker 1: like a person that's important and that we're going to
Speaker 1: meet again. Like we we evolved in tribes of like
Speaker 1: two people, everyone's opinions about you really mattered. That's why
Speaker 1: that's why social disapproval. As animals, we are wired to
Speaker 1: like really hate social disapproval. Yeah, we want to belong.
Speaker 1: It's a very deep evolutionary thing. So, you know, fast
Speaker 1: forward to Twitter, we're bringing that Caveman psychology to a
Speaker 1: situation where we have thousands and thousands and thousands of
Speaker 1: strangers following us that see a snippet and hate you
Speaker 1: and never met you and say the meanest thing that
Speaker 1: they can and you're still acting as if if you're
Speaker 1: not if you don't convince them who you really are,
Speaker 1: you're they're not going to share the next bison kill
Speaker 1: with you, and you and your kids die. And there
Speaker 1: is this desire though, to disprove their misread of you,
Speaker 1: this this desire to shake them. And just like if
Speaker 1: we if we could just seem me, if you could
Speaker 1: just talk to me, I guarantee you I'm not what
Speaker 1: you think I am. Yeah. And the kicker with that is,
Speaker 1: you know that if whoever was tweeting the worst thing
Speaker 1: that's ever been tweeted at you, if they were in
Speaker 1: front of your face, they would never say that. They
Speaker 1: don't even think they would want to say that. It's
Speaker 1: like this, there's it's so much easier to throw your
Speaker 1: pain at people on the internet, but receiving it fucking
Speaker 1: bites also have you ever had the experience where someone
Speaker 1: emails or d m do something really mean and then
Speaker 1: you respond like nicely and calmly, and then the next
Speaker 1: thing they say is, oh my god, I'm sorry. I'm
Speaker 1: such a big fan. Yes they did, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: you didn't even mean what you said, Like they didn't
Speaker 1: even they didn't even mean the anger that I read
Speaker 1: with your message that you just take it back like
Speaker 1: that because I responded, Yeah, that always pisces me off.
Speaker 1: They didn't see you as a person and then they remember,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is a human being, right, it's
Speaker 1: like a guy, I'm just talking. Yeah, I can't be crazy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think you're I think you're your point though, Like
Speaker 1: it's so much worse than people know when you're being attacked. UM.
Speaker 1: Online is interesting because I know, like even when it
Speaker 1: happens to like me, even like people very close to me,
Speaker 1: Like my best friend wanted me to talk to someone
Speaker 1: who was like getting canceled, um because he's a he's
Speaker 1: a therapist, And I was like, therapist, he's getting canceled
Speaker 1: because he's no, no, no no, no, no. One of his
Speaker 1: clients was getting canceled, and so he was like he
Speaker 1: was gonna. He was like, asked me if it was
Speaker 1: okay to refer me, and I was like, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: still working through that in therapy, so I I was like,
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't think. I was like, you
Speaker 1: can never you know, people would just be like, act
Speaker 1: like you're a cry baby, you know, if you're if
Speaker 1: you really let on. But I'm like, it is. You know,
Speaker 1: that's why John Ronson wrote, you know, the entire book,
Speaker 1: so you've been publicly ashamed. I mean, because it's like
Speaker 1: I gave it to everyone in my family for Christmas
Speaker 1: and they were like and I was like, just you
Speaker 1: need this, um and it's an easy read to um.
Speaker 1: But I think, like, you know, the fact that people
Speaker 1: are commonly kill themselves over public shamings should wake something
Speaker 1: up in other people. And you know, there was a
Speaker 1: time when I responded just like really, you know, angrily
Speaker 1: online and then I evolved to responding nicely, and now
Speaker 1: sometimes I just fucking make examples of people and within
Speaker 1: two hours there you know, the their instagrams on private,
Speaker 1: because that's how little of it they can take it.
Speaker 1: And it's not me trying to make people feel it's
Speaker 1: just me showing them. I'm like, I need to show
Speaker 1: you what this feels like, because I really don't think
Speaker 1: you know, And as soon as you get a little
Speaker 1: tiny piece of it, it's going to change who you are.
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry that I have to do it this way,
Speaker 1: but I gotta do it this. It must be antithetic,
Speaker 1: like against our evolution or or human instincts to put
Speaker 1: ourselves in other people's shoes, because it's hard. I don't
Speaker 1: see a lot of that happening, like really about yourself
Speaker 1: before before you say the thing. It's time consuming and
Speaker 1: no one wants to take the time to do it,
Speaker 1: like it's a it's a pain in the ass. And also,
Speaker 1: how do you know what it's like. You're never going
Speaker 1: to really know what it's like, just to like dance
Speaker 1: there a little bit in your imagination. I do too.
Speaker 1: I think it's very interesting. That's but that's why when
Speaker 1: I get criticism online, which is all the time, but
Speaker 1: like when it has happened in the avalanche is I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: the anger that you're feeling is coming from somewhere and
Speaker 1: you're not making it up and it's valid. So it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't wanna I don't wanna invalidate your anger,
Speaker 1: because that's that's going to make things way worse. It's
Speaker 1: just misdirected. I think we all just feel like everyone
Speaker 1: else's lives are going a lot better than ours, or
Speaker 1: they have something that we want or should have, and
Speaker 1: like that's not true. We're all suffering. Like that's hello,
Speaker 1: when did social media? How old were you when social
Speaker 1: media came into your life? Because I remember when I
Speaker 1: went on Facebook, you had to get a college email
Speaker 1: it's in order to do it, which was awesome. And
Speaker 1: I like, I think, I think so often how blessed.
Speaker 1: I never use a word, but I feel that way
Speaker 1: about not about going through middle school in high school
Speaker 1: with th no social media. I think fourteen for me,
Speaker 1: and I was late compared to most of my peers
Speaker 1: because I wasn't I don't know. I wasn't the type
Speaker 1: to just always be on the new technology like my sister,
Speaker 1: So it would have been like twelve for most people
Speaker 1: in Migrate, but I just waited another two years. I
Speaker 1: was working at my Spice Girls easy and at fourteen,
Speaker 1: what do you think social media is doing to society?
Speaker 1: It's hard to not For me, it's hard to not
Speaker 1: be pessimistic about that. Yeah, this is a This is
Speaker 1: an interesting debate because on the one hand, you have
Speaker 1: people who say, listen, there's been fake news since the
Speaker 1: end of time. Since since the beginning of time, there's
Speaker 1: been viral myths that go on to social media. There's
Speaker 1: been genocides and civil wars and strife and all kinds
Speaker 1: of horrible violence, long before social media came for us
Speaker 1: to blame it on. On the other hand, the difference
Speaker 1: between how information spread in two thousand five and two
Speaker 1: thousand fifteen is actually incredible. Like in two thousand five
Speaker 1: is if something crazy happened in your local town and
Speaker 1: like Wichita, I guess that's not that's like a pretty
Speaker 1: big city for their um apologies to listeners from Kansas
Speaker 1: is a great state. Like that would be in the
Speaker 1: Wichita local newspaper the next day, a journalists would go
Speaker 1: they would do their due diligence and it would be
Speaker 1: read locally and you would go to the farmer's market
Speaker 1: to all these did you hear the crazy thing happened? Right?
Speaker 1: And that'd be it, and they spread, Yeah it's relevant
Speaker 1: to them, it's not today is that same crazy things
Speaker 1: happens in Wichita, someone is there with with an iPhone.
Speaker 1: They film it. They film a thirty second clip, the
Speaker 1: worst thirty second clip of it, without the lead up,
Speaker 1: without the fallout, without the context, and within hours, millions
Speaker 1: of people across the world have seen it. They have
Speaker 1: an opinion on it, and they're relating it to their
Speaker 1: pain and what they like. I was telling this the
Speaker 1: other day. I'm like, we're all playing hot potato with
Speaker 1: our pain and are like bad feelings. And I feel
Speaker 1: like you could tell when a media outlet the headline
Speaker 1: is just that it's trying to poke at you. It's
Speaker 1: trying to poke at like what what's the lowest hanging
Speaker 1: fruit of what people get mad at? And then you
Speaker 1: see how many people take the bait. So there's no
Speaker 1: I mean, you cannot exaggerate the difference between the information
Speaker 1: ecosystem in our just the pure speed, yeah, the speed
Speaker 1: of information, because fake news now is like what you know,
Speaker 1: we used to call like an old wives tale or something,
Speaker 1: you know, just something that you would have to like,
Speaker 1: you'd have to hear it from somebody. Yes, And when
Speaker 1: you raise the speed limit of information, not every piece
Speaker 1: of information takes advantage of that. So like, by the way,
Speaker 1: I think, I use this analogy sometimes with like if
Speaker 1: we were to increase the speed limit on the highway
Speaker 1: like three um, certain cars would be able to go
Speaker 1: that fast. But certain cars have a top speed of
Speaker 1: ninety miles an hour. They were just you know, family
Speaker 1: cars or whatever. And so when you when you know,
Speaker 1: jack up the speed of information divisive things like horrible
Speaker 1: things or what travels faster, the rational still travels slow.
Speaker 1: And so because it's less interesting. Yeah, Like that's how
Speaker 1: I feel about climate change and why I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: because I have my other podcast as a new show,
Speaker 1: and I think the reason truly that we don't talk
Speaker 1: about climate change as much is because the articles are boring,
Speaker 1: and that's really why. And also it's like you start
Speaker 1: reading it and you go, these are not words that
Speaker 1: I use every day when it's about a person or
Speaker 1: something like more like a social issue that's easier for
Speaker 1: us to grasp, and then you just, you know, climate
Speaker 1: change articles have environmental language in them that we don't
Speaker 1: use on a day to day basis. And I really
Speaker 1: think that if you know, I just got to spice
Speaker 1: up these articles a little bit, put some news that'll
Speaker 1: maybe want to say. There, so give me stuff to do,
Speaker 1: like give me we know, like you know, it took
Speaker 1: me a minute to realize, oh, I need to be
Speaker 1: bringing my own grocery bags to the grocery store. Like
Speaker 1: that's but that's such an easy thing for everybody to do.
Speaker 1: It didn't take anything out of you, It doesn't emotionally
Speaker 1: exhaust you. It's just something you have to remember. There's
Speaker 1: though something demoralizing about knowing that you're just one in
Speaker 1: a note of millions in that, you know, bringing your
Speaker 1: grocery bag, your biodegradable whatever. Like at some level, it's
Speaker 1: such you're such a blip in the universe, in the
Speaker 1: world that it's so easy to lapse into nihilism and
Speaker 1: just say, Okay, I'm gonna try to vote for the
Speaker 1: right person, screw this whatever. Yeah. But going back, I
Speaker 1: going back to like the future of social media and
Speaker 1: it's impact on society. Do you ever see that getting better? No?
Speaker 1: I mean I don't know. I mean it's a very
Speaker 1: tough nut to crack because, um, look, we live in
Speaker 1: a capitalist society. Many people are making tons of money
Speaker 1: on so and I don't think that will ever go away. Overall,
Speaker 1: that is the engine of wealth that makes so many
Speaker 1: immigrants want to move here. It's in the in a
Speaker 1: ten ft few. It's a good thing, I think, but
Speaker 1: it has these downsides. Whereas you know, when TikTok comes
Speaker 1: out in China, they can actually close it at ten
Speaker 1: pm or whatever they do. Oh they do that, Yes,
Speaker 1: TikTok in China. Yeah, they just put in all of
Speaker 1: these regulations to say, actually, it locks you out after
Speaker 1: certain hours, all of these things which which a parent
Speaker 1: would want to be able to instill so so that
Speaker 1: you don't go crazy. Here, we can't just do that.
Speaker 1: We can't just snap our fingers in an authoritarian state
Speaker 1: and make these decisions. And that that's the price we
Speaker 1: pay for freedom. I think it's it's a price that's
Speaker 1: worth it. But as long as like there's money to
Speaker 1: be made with attention and just like your eyeballs, it's
Speaker 1: it's hard to see how we roll this back. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we almost We need examples, We need teachings. We
Speaker 1: need to be taught in school because you can't really
Speaker 1: rely that the parents are going to teach it. Although
Speaker 1: I think parenting is really evolved in the last couple
Speaker 1: of decades of like how what is self control, what
Speaker 1: does it look like, the benefits of it, and then
Speaker 1: how do you do it and where do you implement it?
Speaker 1: Because I feel like we're all Kevin McAlister and home
Speaker 1: alone too. We got our dad's credit card and we
Speaker 1: got this fucking butler wheeling us in ice cream until
Speaker 1: we pass out. And it's like over simulation with pornography,
Speaker 1: over simulation with advertisements and with buying, just buying ship
Speaker 1: that you don't need. It took me a long time
Speaker 1: to realize, Oh, I'm just buying shit I don't need.
Speaker 1: Like that's the nature of a consumerism consumer society, Like, um,
Speaker 1: you know, it almost seems like teaching people how to
Speaker 1: control themselves is going to be the key. I think, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we need some kind of self control culture or some
Speaker 1: kind of um make self control hot and fun? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, like the whole just like being on your
Speaker 1: phone during a conversation. You have that like a cultural thing,
Speaker 1: like that's not cool because there's other absent a cultural
Speaker 1: stigma on it. Nothing is going to slow this down,
Speaker 1: Like it's only gonna get like the whatever the version
Speaker 1: of TikTok Pocket is that comes out in ten years
Speaker 1: is going to be more addictive than TikTok. Think about that.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Hell yeah, that sounds terrible. I can't.
Speaker 1: I wean off drugs and just get off get on
Speaker 1: social media. Listen, TikTok has been very helpful for me.
Speaker 1: That's how I get my a SMR, which is, in
Speaker 1: my opinion, more helpful than meditation. I love it. I
Speaker 1: love a SMR. That's the only reason I go on TikTok.
Speaker 1: Do you do you only follow a smart people basic?
Speaker 1: Basically so, and I'll go on all my lives. My
Speaker 1: favorite is Serenity. Hey, hey, beasty. She calls everyone besty.
Speaker 1: She doesn't know me, um yeah, and I just like
Speaker 1: watch her, like give a fake facial to a camera,
Speaker 1: like not a pornography facial and actual like a whisper voice,
Speaker 1: and oh my god, it's amazing. Yeah, She's improved my
Speaker 1: life that more more than like almost anyone I've paid
Speaker 1: money to, Yeah, for sure, But yes, I mean will
Speaker 1: power and self control. I mean that's like one of
Speaker 1: the biggest I think lessons like in life. I mean
Speaker 1: that's why I like I got. I feel like I
Speaker 1: like Judaism so much because I feel like every holiday
Speaker 1: is kind of about self control or like taking thing
Speaker 1: away from yourself. And that's why I really got into it.
Speaker 1: Like you know, we were just kind of raised like culturally,
Speaker 1: like my parents are different religions. But then I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: like pass Over, You're just like taking things away from yourself.
Speaker 1: And it's the only holiday that builds character. I've never
Speaker 1: like sales character from celebrating Christmas or Easter, but I
Speaker 1: really truly have built character from celeb celebrating and I'm
Speaker 1: using that we pass Over. Yeah, but it's interesting, like
Speaker 1: almost every religion has something like that. Lent, I guess
Speaker 1: for one for Christians and Ramadan for Muslims, all about
Speaker 1: giving up that which gives you pleasure to get to
Speaker 1: something deeper. Yes, yeah, and then you then you reappreciate
Speaker 1: what gives you pleasure and you don't want to overdo it,
Speaker 1: which is amazing. Coleman, thank you so much for being
Speaker 1: on the show. We really appreciate it. Where can we
Speaker 1: find you? What would you like to promote my podcast
Speaker 1: Conversations with Coleman wherever you listen to podcasts, My Twitter
Speaker 1: at cold x Man, and my uh let's see my
Speaker 1: website Coleman houst dot or awesome. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: This has been Guys We Fucked, the anti slot shaming podcast.
Speaker 1: We'll talk to you next Friday. Guys We Fucked is
Speaker 1: presented by Luminary, Created and hosted by Karin Fisher and
Speaker 1: Christina Hutchinson. Editing and music coordination by Mike Coscarelli. Theme
Speaker 1: song by Rob Patterson and Jake Cozen Suck my wet
Speaker 1: ass pussy. Christina said, to cut that before, but now
Speaker 1: it's in there. Yeah, let's keep it. Who cares, Megan,
Speaker 1: it's mag it's strong soils, it's all along. Let the
Speaker 1: buzz like go on to drunken bliss. Give me a
Speaker 1: good old fashion love with a twish, Love with a twist.
Speaker 1: Give me Reddi steady love with a twist, Vegan meat
Speaker 1: meganns sigg it up once or twice, maybe virtue be vice.
Speaker 1: You can't resent. Give me Reddy Steady a love with
Speaker 1: a twist. Love is like a count two hearts to
Speaker 1: feel samee mixing hearts love, sparking night flame. I had
Speaker 1: a twist to see and flame become a fire, burning
Speaker 1: rights that you love the dringle love with leasures around
Speaker 1: dry love with a twist, ring me ring a ding
Speaker 1: dingle Love with a dress too, by Sweet One, by
Speaker 1: Fine Port, slow, just like wine, so the flavor over
Speaker 1: time was still first. SA bring me ring a ding
Speaker 1: dingle love with a twist, The shout,