Speaker 1: Pushkin. This is talk Easy. I'm standing Forgoso. Welcome to
Speaker 1: the show today. I am joined by actor and activist
Speaker 1: Nazzini Nor. She's an Iranian American performer who's used her
Speaker 1: platform and voice to support the people of Iran fighting
Speaker 1: back against the Islamic Republic. The movement began back on
Speaker 1: September thirteenth of twenty two in response to the detainment
Speaker 1: of Massa Amini, a young Kurdish woman who was visiting Tehran.
Speaker 1: From the outset, it seemed to be a typical detention
Speaker 1: over an anadequate hijab, but as the hours turned to days,
Speaker 1: we learned Masa was beaten by the Morality Police, a
Speaker 1: religious police squad operating under the auspices of the Islamic Republic.
Speaker 1: She was beaten so badly by these men that she
Speaker 1: fell into a coma, hanging on only with the assistance
Speaker 1: of a ventilator before passing away on September sixteenth. She
Speaker 1: was twenty two years old. Of course, since the fall
Speaker 1: of Iran's monarchy in nineteen seventy nine, the revolution has
Speaker 1: unfolded and fits and starts, but it's this recent wave
Speaker 1: of sustained protest and pressure from across the globe that
Speaker 1: has people like Nazzinine fighting, fighting to upend the republic
Speaker 1: and most importantly, fighting for the women of Iran to
Speaker 1: have the basic freedoms any human deserves. In our brief
Speaker 1: time here, Nazanin has fought back through social media, news
Speaker 1: appearances on CNN, and even traveling to Geneva to speak
Speaker 1: with ambassadors from various member states to kick the Islamic
Speaker 1: Republic off of the UN Commission on Women, which she,
Speaker 1: along with other determined activists did. You'll hear all about
Speaker 1: this in our conversation. You'll also hear how she's turned
Speaker 1: her politics into art and a new play called English,
Speaker 1: written by Snaz Tucci, which has recently been extended at
Speaker 1: the Studio Theater in Washington, d C. Through March twelfth.
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful piece about four adult students in Iran
Speaker 1: preparing for the test of English as a foreign language,
Speaker 1: the key to getting their green card, medical school, and
Speaker 1: family reunification. For her part, Nozanin plays their instructor named Marjon,
Speaker 1: who hear a little bit of that play at the
Speaker 1: end of this episode. But to learn more about English,
Speaker 1: be sure to visit Studio Theater Dot org. That's Studio
Speaker 1: Theater dot org. As for today, we talked through some
Speaker 1: of the history that has brought Iran to this historic moment,
Speaker 1: her years growing up in northern Virginia with immigrant parents,
Speaker 1: and the complicated feelings just about most first generation children
Speaker 1: have around identity and guilt and home. It was an
Speaker 1: honor to do this episode and to sit with the
Speaker 1: one and only Nozany nor Nozany nor pleasure to see
Speaker 1: you say nice to see you as well. Let's start
Speaker 1: with something that is a little complicated and maybe a
Speaker 1: little bit of a loaded question, how are you feeling
Speaker 1: right now? Yeah, being Iranian is a little bit difficult.
Speaker 1: Right now. Things change drastically after the death of Massa
Speaker 1: Gina Amini, and you know, every Iranian I know is
Speaker 1: kind of feeling We feel sad, we feel kind of helpless.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's an up and down mix of emotions. And
Speaker 1: I feel guilt for not being in Iran physically. I
Speaker 1: feel like, am I doing enough every day to help
Speaker 1: this current revolution move forward and be successful. There's kind
Speaker 1: of like this cloud hanging over my head every day,
Speaker 1: and you feel guilty sometimes too, if you know, I'm
Speaker 1: because I'm working now and you're doing your job and
Speaker 1: you're on stage, you're entertaining people, and then also you're like,
Speaker 1: what am I even doing? You know. I don't know
Speaker 1: if that makes sense, but that's how I feel daily.
Speaker 1: This civil rights movement in Iran was sparked by the
Speaker 1: death of Masa Amini back on September sixteenth of last year. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she was a twenty two year old Kurdish girl who
Speaker 1: was killed at the hands of the Islamic Republic's Morality
Speaker 1: police for wearing improper job. Since then, according to the
Speaker 1: data attract daily by the hr A and A, at
Speaker 1: least five hundred and thirty one protesters and seventy one
Speaker 1: children have been killed, not to mention the nineteen thousand,
Speaker 1: five hundred and ninety four people who've been arrested, the
Speaker 1: seven hundred and thirty seven people being convicted for protesting,
Speaker 1: the one hundred and ten people who are under the
Speaker 1: impending threat of a death sentence, and the four protesters
Speaker 1: that have already been executed. Now that's just the data
Speaker 1: that's been collected and confirmed. But as we enter month
Speaker 1: five of this revolution against the regime, where are we at?
Speaker 1: As you mentioned, you know, there's four young men that
Speaker 1: were executed after sham trials. There's no due process and
Speaker 1: justice under the Islamic Republic. And those are just the
Speaker 1: four that we know of that we're reported. You know,
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, there's over eighteen thousand people in prison,
Speaker 1: ranging from human rights activist, animal activists, environmental activists, attorneys, artists,
Speaker 1: regular citizen and just protesting for human rights. And so
Speaker 1: they still remain there and so trying to get them
Speaker 1: released and out is a huge goal. It's a very
Speaker 1: sustained effort that's been happening, and like every protest movement
Speaker 1: and revolution, there's going to be waves of protest up
Speaker 1: and down. We have gas and oil workers from some
Speaker 1: of the most oil and gas rich parts of Iran
Speaker 1: that had gone on strike and some continue to strike
Speaker 1: petro chemical workers. We've had mass protest in the diaspora
Speaker 1: since this all started in September of twenty twenty two
Speaker 1: that are sustained. Every week there's mass protest in solidarity.
Speaker 1: There's pushes from Iranians abroad to have certain bills passed
Speaker 1: in America in Europe for different types of things that
Speaker 1: would be against the Islamic regime. So they're targeted towards
Speaker 1: Islamic regime and the officials. I myself took part in
Speaker 1: advocacy work for the UN resolution as well as kicking
Speaker 1: the Islamic Republic off of the Commission on the Status
Speaker 1: of Women, which were both successful. So there are a
Speaker 1: lot of things at play currently right now, and this
Speaker 1: revolution is ongoing and it shows no signs of slowing down.
Speaker 1: The part of the revolution is in response to what
Speaker 1: Susan Kian poor rights in politico, the politics of fear,
Speaker 1: which has been a key to the Islamic Republic of
Speaker 1: Iran's hold on power for forty three years. Can you
Speaker 1: explain what that looks like on a day to day
Speaker 1: basis for the women of Iran. Absolutely? Yeah. So you know,
Speaker 1: Iran was ruled under monarchy up until nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker 1: The last family that was there were the path Levies
Speaker 1: and so after the Ayatola Rholahomany came in nineteen seventy
Speaker 1: nine February of nineteen sevent nine, actually that created the
Speaker 1: Islamic Revolution. So Iran went from a monarchy to a theocracy,
Speaker 1: and under this theocracy they enforced mandatory hedge up. So
Speaker 1: whereas in Iran pre nineteen seventy nine, women could choose
Speaker 1: to cover or not. My parents and family obviously grew
Speaker 1: up their pre revolution, and you know, the pictures and
Speaker 1: videos you see are just as you would see anywhere
Speaker 1: else across the world, freely dressed however they want, going
Speaker 1: to disco's regular everyday society as far as freedoms go.
Speaker 1: And once that change in nineteen seventy nine, women were
Speaker 1: forced to cover. So it became enshrined in law, and
Speaker 1: you could get jailed, beaten, flogged, lashes killed for wearing
Speaker 1: quote unquote bad hedgejob if it wasn't improper. This morality
Speaker 1: police was created as well after this, and they enforce
Speaker 1: these types of laws. They would roam the streets looking
Speaker 1: for women who weren't following this dress code and again
Speaker 1: violently taking them in beating them on the streets. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's so many videos. Massa Gin I'm many. Unfortunately, is
Speaker 1: not the first person to die at the hands of
Speaker 1: the morality police. And I myself had brushes with the
Speaker 1: morality police when I would visit Iran, So it's very scary.
Speaker 1: Women's testimony in court is worth half that of a man's.
Speaker 1: Women are not allowed to travel or study without the
Speaker 1: permission of their husband or a male figure in their life.
Speaker 1: Women are not allowed to sing solo in public. Women
Speaker 1: are not allowed to ride bicycles. I remember one time
Speaker 1: when I was in Iran, before we got there, it
Speaker 1: was like, well, don't wear bright colored neo polish. And
Speaker 1: then the next time I was there, it was like, okay,
Speaker 1: you can wear your headscarf a little bit looser. And
Speaker 1: then other time was there, my sister got stopped at
Speaker 1: the airport and they weren't allowing us to board our
Speaker 1: flight because she had sandals on, so they made her
Speaker 1: go buy socks in the airport to put under her sandals.
Speaker 1: I mean it just they can choose at the drop
Speaker 1: of a hat whether you're in violation of this arbitrary rule.
Speaker 1: Under their theocracy, it's sort of always been a sliding
Speaker 1: scale who's in power. One of the biggest movements in
Speaker 1: Iran happened in two thousand and nine. It was called
Speaker 1: the Green Movement, and it was when reformist candidate mir
Speaker 1: Hussain Musabi, who was seen as more of a little
Speaker 1: bit of a moderate, against the incumbent Mahudama Ahmadinajad, who
Speaker 1: was a hardliner, and there was so much hope because
Speaker 1: Iranians really felt like, oh, there could actually be changed.
Speaker 1: Some of these laws are going to get loosened up,
Speaker 1: you know, we're going to have some more freedoms. And
Speaker 1: I remember I actually was in Iran for that two
Speaker 1: days before the elections. I landed and I saw the hope.
Speaker 1: I mean, people were dancing in the streets. That is
Speaker 1: something I have never seen after the Islamic Revolution that
Speaker 1: lasted about seven months, right, the Green Movement, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it wasn't as sustained as it is now because it
Speaker 1: was kind of also specific to Tehran. But this protest movement,
Speaker 1: this revolution currently that started in twenty twenty two, is
Speaker 1: the longest sustained effort daily and it has reached all
Speaker 1: the provinces inside of Iran. So everybody is united in
Speaker 1: this common cause. And one of the things the Islamic
Speaker 1: Republic has been successful in over the years that's now
Speaker 1: finally breaking and cracking is they have tried to pit
Speaker 1: people in Iran against each other too, whether it's an ideology,
Speaker 1: you have a religion you follow, if you're an ethnic minority.
Speaker 1: It was always kind of presented as it's all of
Speaker 1: us against each other. But now everyone's come together. And
Speaker 1: one of the biggest chance that you'll hear that started
Speaker 1: at the beginning of this was, for example, you know,
Speaker 1: from zahead on to Tehran, we will give our lives
Speaker 1: for Iran. That's the loose translation. And Zahidan is a
Speaker 1: place where there's a Kurdish ethnic minority. Tehran is of
Speaker 1: course the capital of Iran. So people were chanting that,
Speaker 1: you know, doesn't matter where you're from, we're in this together.
Speaker 1: We want to topple this regime. I want to better
Speaker 1: understand that common cause you mentioned, because in Western coverage
Speaker 1: of this movement, I've read a lot about potential reforms
Speaker 1: that could be made within the Islamic Republic to accommodate protesters.
Speaker 1: But those same protesters are making a very clear distinction,
Speaker 1: or at least trying to communicate a distinction, which is
Speaker 1: that they are not asking for reform but instead a
Speaker 1: dissolution of the regime. And I'm curious how do you
Speaker 1: grapple with both that distinction and then what the people
Speaker 1: of Iran actually want on the other side of dissolution. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's interesting in the way I've seen it presented inaccurately.
Speaker 1: There was this New York Times article that came out
Speaker 1: I believe it was two months ago. I don't know
Speaker 1: the exact date, but it was it was a while ago,
Speaker 1: and it said that the Morality Police had been abolished.
Speaker 1: Not only have they not been abolished, they have now
Speaker 1: started enforcing facial recognition technology. I personally know people who
Speaker 1: have received tickets in the mail because they were driving
Speaker 1: and facial recognition caught them in their car, maybe their
Speaker 1: headscarf fell off or whatever it may be, and now
Speaker 1: they're being charged with this crime based on this technology.
Speaker 1: So it's not abolished, and they're just now going about
Speaker 1: it in different ways as well, to quote unquote catchwomen
Speaker 1: with their bad head job. So headlines like that were
Speaker 1: very detrimental to us as well. That actually came out
Speaker 1: when I was doing advocacy work with my group at
Speaker 1: the UN in Geneva and in New York. And one
Speaker 1: of the first questions that we were asked by different
Speaker 1: member states, where so tell us about the abolishment, is
Speaker 1: that we're like, no, no, no no, So we have to
Speaker 1: spend part of our time dispelling this rumor and disseminating
Speaker 1: accurate information. So you know, very frustrated at the coverage
Speaker 1: or lack thereof, and that sometimes when there is coverage,
Speaker 1: it's still it's not accurate reporting. Since this all began
Speaker 1: back in September, you've been a particularly outspoken critic of
Speaker 1: the regime, even meeting, as you just referenced, with ambassadors
Speaker 1: from various members of state the kick the Islamic Republic
Speaker 1: off the UN Commission on Women. But at what point
Speaker 1: did it first cross your mind that by being this vocal,
Speaker 1: by speaking out as you have, that you would not
Speaker 1: be able to return to Iran. That's a great question.
Speaker 1: I actually haven't been able to return to Iran for
Speaker 1: many years. The last time I was there, I went
Speaker 1: two years in a row, two thousand and nine, as
Speaker 1: I said, I was there for the Green Movement, and
Speaker 1: then two ten the year after, and I haven't been
Speaker 1: able to go back since. One is because as an artist,
Speaker 1: I have participated in either TV shows or I wrote
Speaker 1: a script, actually a feature script that detailed what happened
Speaker 1: during the Green Movement while I was there, so I
Speaker 1: already knew once I wrote that script, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to be able to go back. And then over the years,
Speaker 1: you know, I wasn't as vocal as I am now
Speaker 1: by any means. It was kind of a build up.
Speaker 1: And you know a lot of people in diaspora have
Speaker 1: always been hesitant and scared because it's not just about
Speaker 1: us being able to go back, it's we all have
Speaker 1: family there, so we know how terrible this regime is
Speaker 1: and how they will blackmail you or threaten your families,
Speaker 1: torture your families to get to you. And so I
Speaker 1: was trying to tread carefully, and then I would say,
Speaker 1: over the last three to four years, I started becoming
Speaker 1: way more vocal. And then I was like, well, you
Speaker 1: know what, I can't go back anyway. So well here's
Speaker 1: the thing too, Sam, you can go you just might
Speaker 1: not be able to come back. But not be able
Speaker 1: to come back, what do you really mean jailed would
Speaker 1: be the least of your worries. Jail, torture, potential execution.
Speaker 1: I mean they're charging people with it's called corruption on
Speaker 1: earth or waging war against God, which it's anything that's
Speaker 1: against the Islamic Republic is or threatens the Islamic Republic
Speaker 1: is what it comes down to. And these young men
Speaker 1: who were executed and hanged, that's what happened to them
Speaker 1: for protesting for human rights. And you know, of course
Speaker 1: all of us that are vocal in the diasp, where
Speaker 1: all of us that are working with the UN government's
Speaker 1: politicians to try to hit the Islamic Republic where it
Speaker 1: hurts and do whatever we can to have them topple.
Speaker 1: You know, we are definitely also enemies of the state,
Speaker 1: enemy number one. So the hope is that one day
Speaker 1: we all will be able to go back because we'll
Speaker 1: have a free run. And I know that'll happen. I
Speaker 1: know that's going to happen. Well, I think to understand
Speaker 1: all that you've had to leave behind, we have to
Speaker 1: go back to the beginning for you. We alluded to
Speaker 1: the Islamic Revolution of nineteen seventy nine, but your parents
Speaker 1: actually left for the US in nineteen seventy five to
Speaker 1: attend university and study engineering. They ended up staying here
Speaker 1: as Iran erupts four years later before having you in
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two. Now, growing up in northern Virginia, your
Speaker 1: parents would often say you're Iranian, not American. How did
Speaker 1: you make sense of that as a child going to
Speaker 1: a Persian school in Virginia. Yeah, it was really interesting.
Speaker 1: They had the plan that a lot of Iranians had
Speaker 1: they came in the seventies pre revolution. The plan was
Speaker 1: to go to university here, get a degree, and go
Speaker 1: back and use it in Iran. And that all changed.
Speaker 1: You know, so many people are here not because they
Speaker 1: planned to stay here, which I think is one of
Speaker 1: the saddest things. I feel like when you come here
Speaker 1: too as an immigrant. And they were so wanted to
Speaker 1: hold onto that identity. Like, as I said, they weren't
Speaker 1: planning to come here and be quote unquote be American.
Speaker 1: They were going to go back to their motherland, and
Speaker 1: they wanted to make sure that they instilled that culture
Speaker 1: in me. And that that's how I was raised. And
Speaker 1: so I have memories, of course, of asking to go
Speaker 1: on play dates or to sleep over at someone's house
Speaker 1: and it was like no, or well so and so
Speaker 1: can do this, and they're like, well, you're Iranian. You know,
Speaker 1: they're not Iranian, they don't have Iranian parents. And so
Speaker 1: I loved it. I grew up surrounded by a community
Speaker 1: of other Iranians that we are all still friends today.
Speaker 1: Our parents are good friends. These are it's like my
Speaker 1: extended family. And yes, I went to Persian school for
Speaker 1: about eight years every Saturday, so in addition to my
Speaker 1: Monday through Friday regular school, I was there learning how
Speaker 1: to read and write Persian. How you know, our culture,
Speaker 1: our dance, music, and all that kind of stuff. And
Speaker 1: sometimes as a child, of course, when you look at it,
Speaker 1: you're like, oh god, I have to go to school
Speaker 1: on Saturday. But again we were surrounded by all our
Speaker 1: friends doing the same thing, so it's actually really fun.
Speaker 1: My identity is so tied to my culture and my history,
Speaker 1: and I'm really thankful for that because it really is
Speaker 1: up to us to continue our culture here. But some
Speaker 1: part of you must have also thought, well, I am American,
Speaker 1: I was born here. Yeah, and I wonder like how
Speaker 1: you navigated those two competing identities. It's interesting because a
Speaker 1: lot of Iranians that grew up in America, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure in other countries, but I'll just speak to the
Speaker 1: experience here, we always feel like we don't know where
Speaker 1: we belong. You know, we feel very Iranian, and we
Speaker 1: also feel very American because we were born and raised here.
Speaker 1: And I always was made to feel not now, but
Speaker 1: more so back then. You know, I always say that
Speaker 1: it's it's become cool to be ethnic now in America
Speaker 1: over the last few years, but when I was growing
Speaker 1: up and in school, it wasn't. You kind of are othered.
Speaker 1: And then when I would visit Iran, it was in
Speaker 1: you know, they would tease you in a funny way,
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, the American girls are here, the American
Speaker 1: sisters are here. So we were always like wait, So
Speaker 1: like Iranians think we're foreign and Americans think we're foreign.
Speaker 1: So I think you just constantly have this double identity
Speaker 1: that you're trying to make mesh together. And sometimes it's
Speaker 1: easier to code switch around certain groups of people so that,
Speaker 1: you know, instead of explaining things and whatnot, you just
Speaker 1: kind of adhere to those norms in that one culture,
Speaker 1: and then when you're in the other one, you adhere
Speaker 1: to those norms of that culture, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Do you think maybe subconsciously you were bridging those identities
Speaker 1: as a kid through performance, because by the age of six,
Speaker 1: you said that you treated your bedroom like it was
Speaker 1: a theater and did everything from telling jokes and singing
Speaker 1: to writing scenes and acting them out in the most
Speaker 1: dramatic fashion. Yeah, I did, and I do think that
Speaker 1: that's a very stute observation. I think that was part
Speaker 1: of the passion that I always have had for explaining
Speaker 1: our culture and our history to people who aren't familiar
Speaker 1: with it, because, you know, the last forty three years, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: most of the times that you see Iran in the
Speaker 1: media and the news, in television and movies, Iranians as
Speaker 1: people get conflated with the Islamic Republic, and so people
Speaker 1: assume that's our culture and that's our history. We have
Speaker 1: a twenty five hundred plus year history that unfortunately a
Speaker 1: lot of people don't know about. I used to do
Speaker 1: these women on the Street segments and sketches that I
Speaker 1: would write where I was bridging this gap between teaching
Speaker 1: people about our culture but doing it in a fun,
Speaker 1: funny way. My loves were always like Weekend Update and
Speaker 1: the Daily Show, and you know when people would do
Speaker 1: jaywalking with Jay Lenos, So just like kind of combining
Speaker 1: all of that stuff to help people learn about us
Speaker 1: and see, hey, or just like you, Iranians, We're just
Speaker 1: like you. So it definitely has colored my artistic expression
Speaker 1: and how I connect to others through that. You very
Speaker 1: clearly you have a tendency to make light of dark situations. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I wondered, does that stem from your aunts and
Speaker 1: uncle's sense of humor. Yeah, I would say my family members,
Speaker 1: whether on my mom's side or my dad's side, are
Speaker 1: so just full of humor, teasing, ribbing each other. Like
Speaker 1: that's how Iranians show their love a lot of the time,
Speaker 1: is like if we think you're cool, we're going to
Speaker 1: tease you. You know, if we're very for me, especially
Speaker 1: if I'm very just, you know, very polite and respectful,
Speaker 1: it probably means I don't feel that comfortable around you.
Speaker 1: But if I can pal around with you, that's how
Speaker 1: I show that I'm comfortable. But it's definitely a way
Speaker 1: that you make light of certain situations, and Iranians do
Speaker 1: it constantly. You know, we had FaceTime calls with friends
Speaker 1: and family in Iran over the last few years whenever
Speaker 1: there's other movements and uprisings happening, and you know, they're
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, you know, just another day in heaven here.
Speaker 1: And that's where that sense of guilt creeps into because
Speaker 1: you know, I'm like, I don't have to live that
Speaker 1: every day. And I threw a luck of my parents
Speaker 1: coming here for university and then deciding to stay. I
Speaker 1: avoided having to live under that oppression, and so that
Speaker 1: also drives me to advocate as hard as I can
Speaker 1: for my people. That joke of another day in heaven,
Speaker 1: that's something you don't have to say. Yeah, and it
Speaker 1: seems like that does weigh on you. Yeah, a lot
Speaker 1: of this weighs heavily. It really colors your everyday life
Speaker 1: and you feel almost you do, I mean not even almost.
Speaker 1: Do you feel guilty for having fun or laughing, you know,
Speaker 1: at certain things. Sometimes not all the time, but it
Speaker 1: definitely there's a reminder, there's like a stark reminder that
Speaker 1: happens anytime I opened my phone. Did you feel that way?
Speaker 1: You know, back in two thousand and two, when you
Speaker 1: graduate from George Mason University with a double major and
Speaker 1: government and international politics, and you're moving to New York
Speaker 1: City and you're starting your life working at a corporate
Speaker 1: litigation firm, did you feel guilt even then? I know
Speaker 1: that was twenty years ago, but did that guilt come
Speaker 1: with you to New York? That guilt would creep up
Speaker 1: every now and then, you know, when you talk to
Speaker 1: your family in Iran, it would creep in and then
Speaker 1: it was easier. I don't know if it's because I
Speaker 1: was younger or more optimistic, or I wasn't as involved
Speaker 1: in the day to day politics and life of what
Speaker 1: was going on in Iran. It was probably a culmination
Speaker 1: of all of those things. It afforded me the privilege
Speaker 1: of it not weighing on me so heavily. Irani and
Speaker 1: Sue when you talk to your family in Iran, regardless
Speaker 1: of what's going on. I had a friend who her
Speaker 1: father just in the last two months the militia the
Speaker 1: police under the cover police in Iran, as they were
Speaker 1: shooting at protesters. A bullet hit his car. He was
Speaker 1: just sitting in his car and it was, you know,
Speaker 1: just an inch or two from where his head was,
Speaker 1: so he avoided that simply by luck. And you think
Speaker 1: about those things and you're like, wow, even with that,
Speaker 1: when you talk to them on the phone, they make
Speaker 1: light of it because they don't want you to feel bad.
Speaker 1: But after having gone as an adult and experiencing all
Speaker 1: those things again to where those memories were fresh in
Speaker 1: my head, it is absolutely was the spark for me
Speaker 1: to continue to feel that guilt. It crept back in
Speaker 1: and it was like Oh wow. Yeah, I saw it
Speaker 1: in everybody's eyes when I was there. They want you
Speaker 1: to have a good time, they want to have fun,
Speaker 1: they're so happy that you're there, but there's this sense
Speaker 1: of sadness that's looming underneath for them because of the
Speaker 1: oppression that they're living under. So that's always stuck out
Speaker 1: to me in my head, and it was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, Yeah, I have got to get louder. I've
Speaker 1: got to get louder about this and get more involved.
Speaker 1: So I think it was a combination of all of
Speaker 1: those things. But also your entry point into being actively
Speaker 1: outspoken is acting though. That's where this starts. And I'm curious,
Speaker 1: even amid these conversations with your family and friends with
Speaker 1: a backdrop that is severe and terrifying, I'm sure parts
Speaker 1: of them still wanted you to pursue your dream of
Speaker 1: being an actor. And when you decide to do that
Speaker 1: in New York, I wondered, what did your mother think?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, my parents definitely did not want me to
Speaker 1: pursue a career in entertainment at all. You know, in
Speaker 1: their mind, I had my degree, I was working in
Speaker 1: a law firm. I was a good job with a
Speaker 1: good salary and it was stable and safe. And as
Speaker 1: I started, you know, because I was in the arts
Speaker 1: since a young age. I would perform in my schools theater.
Speaker 1: I played violin for many, many years, so I was
Speaker 1: always inclined to do artsy things. I always wanted to
Speaker 1: be an actor professionally, but I kept thinking, I have
Speaker 1: to be like a good Iranian girl and go get
Speaker 1: my degree and have regular job, and that'll just be
Speaker 1: my passion on the side. And then it got to
Speaker 1: the point where I worked in corporate litigation for a
Speaker 1: while and I was like, this is not for me.
Speaker 1: I'm not happy. I want to I have one life.
Speaker 1: I'm going to go chase my dreams. And my mom
Speaker 1: fought against My dad was more supportive, but my mother
Speaker 1: definitely fought against it for many years. And I get
Speaker 1: where they're coming from. They came here and they struggled,
Speaker 1: and they stayed for us to have a better life.
Speaker 1: And so to them, it was like, why are you
Speaker 1: choosing to suffer when you don't have to, you know,
Speaker 1: because being an actor, obviously it is definitely not easy
Speaker 1: and it's so unstable. They're very proud now too of
Speaker 1: how I'm using my platform I'm very lucky and I'm
Speaker 1: thankful for that every day, that doing what I do
Speaker 1: as an actor affords me the platform to be able
Speaker 1: to advocate for it causes that I'm passionate about, not
Speaker 1: just Iran, but of course heavily Iran, and I think
Speaker 1: it's my duty. It's a part of my duty for
Speaker 1: having this platform, to use it responsibly and to actually
Speaker 1: help people. We'll right back with actor and activist, not
Speaker 1: as an ignore. When you decide to make that leap,
Speaker 1: You've said that you started from the very bottom with
Speaker 1: no agent, doing off Broadway theater before booking supporting roles
Speaker 1: in two independent feature films. You make the move to
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, I think in twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, something
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, what was that plane ride like? As
Speaker 1: you moved and left behind any semblance of stability you
Speaker 1: once had, I definitely felt like, am I making the
Speaker 1: right decision? And in that moment I felt like I was.
Speaker 1: I was like, well, if I don't do it now,
Speaker 1: when am I going to do it? If I keep
Speaker 1: holding myself back with fear, I'll never go. I had
Speaker 1: always thought I'm going to start off in New York
Speaker 1: because it's like, you know, smaller market, and let me
Speaker 1: see what I can get done there. I do think
Speaker 1: I will say. This is the one thing I always say.
Speaker 1: It's just one of the only regrets I have is
Speaker 1: that I did kind of come to LA too soon.
Speaker 1: Maybe I wasn't ready yet for LA, and that maybe
Speaker 1: I should have waited another year or two. And why
Speaker 1: is that. I had just booked my first speaking role,
Speaker 1: recurring costar on television, and then I thought maybe if
Speaker 1: I had waited in New York, I could have gotten
Speaker 1: something a little bit bigger, because my agent was telling
Speaker 1: me things, and there's like casting director or two that
Speaker 1: was like, oh, she should stay, she should wait. You know,
Speaker 1: she'll test if she stays. And so I think that's
Speaker 1: stuck in my head. Where when I left, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe I shouldn't have gone. Maybe I should have listened
Speaker 1: to them. I mean, it is what it is. I
Speaker 1: did what I did, and I think maybe because I
Speaker 1: was younger when I did move, I had more of
Speaker 1: a bold like, yeah, of course it's gonna be great.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make it work. And then you still struggle
Speaker 1: in LA. Of course, how did you make it work?
Speaker 1: You had to hold down part time jobs. I imagine, right, Oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was a tutor. I worked for a really sheshy,
Speaker 1: high end members only Jim that has branches across the world.
Speaker 1: I think you know which one it is. Yeah, rhymes
Speaker 1: with socks equal socks. But I will say when I
Speaker 1: was there, it was really funny because I worked in
Speaker 1: the West Hollywood location, so everybody knew that everyone that
Speaker 1: was working there behind the desk or as a trainer,
Speaker 1: you're probably there as an actor. So people were very
Speaker 1: encouraging and I'll never forget some of the actors that
Speaker 1: were like actually took the time to talk to me
Speaker 1: and ask me about callbacks and auditions and give us
Speaker 1: like give me like a motivational speech. It was really wonderful.
Speaker 1: You want to shout out a specific actor that you
Speaker 1: feel grateful for and debt it too, Yeah, you know
Speaker 1: what I will. I will say one of them. It
Speaker 1: was Marlon Wayne's. He'll never remember this, but he came
Speaker 1: in and he saw me reading sides and he was like,
Speaker 1: what is that for? And I told him, And we'd
Speaker 1: had some banter here and there, and I'd made him
Speaker 1: laugh a few times, so I told him it was
Speaker 1: for a comedy. I don't remember what show it was for,
Speaker 1: but and he was like, all right, great, let me
Speaker 1: know what happens. I hope you get it, you know,
Speaker 1: go break legs. And then a week later he came
Speaker 1: back and he actually came up to me and he's like,
Speaker 1: what happened with the audition? I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I got a call back. And he was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: you're gonna kill it. You're hilarious, you know, do this,
Speaker 1: just remember this and that, and you're gonna be fine.
Speaker 1: Go in there, be yourself, blah blah blah. And then
Speaker 1: I didn't get the part, but he talked to me
Speaker 1: afterward and he was like, oh, I just want to
Speaker 1: give you a couple bits of advice. I think maybe
Speaker 1: you should try doing stand up first, and I think
Speaker 1: you could do well on the stand up scene and
Speaker 1: in this circuit, and then you'll be able to tour
Speaker 1: and think of all the regular everyday things that people
Speaker 1: do that are funny. That's what people relate to, you know,
Speaker 1: like the guy on the bus. Everyone's going to know
Speaker 1: about that one guy on the bus that I don't
Speaker 1: know it takes his shoes off, or he was just
Speaker 1: giving me examples of like how I can build a
Speaker 1: set that is good and that will actually get a
Speaker 1: crowd involved. I'll just never forget the kindness and the
Speaker 1: time he took out to talk to me and actually
Speaker 1: come up to me and ask me and remembered a
Speaker 1: week later that I had a call back. So yeah,
Speaker 1: he was super cool. Really appreciate that about him. I
Speaker 1: love that. I think that, you know, if you're lucky,
Speaker 1: you have people that kind of stop along the way,
Speaker 1: that maybe see things before you can see them. People
Speaker 1: don't realize sometimes, Like even him doing that just a
Speaker 1: few times, it was really motivating for me to hear
Speaker 1: that from someone that I respected, first of all, because
Speaker 1: I think his family is so talented. I used to
Speaker 1: watch in Living Color, so like being able to talk
Speaker 1: to him was very cool for me in general, to
Speaker 1: have that person come and give you that motivation, someone
Speaker 1: that you look at as successful. It reignites that passion
Speaker 1: in you that maybe starts getting snuffed out in La
Speaker 1: sometimes because it's so hard, and you know, La is La,
Speaker 1: so it comes with its own challenges. It's very motivating
Speaker 1: for people to create this ripple effect of kindness and
Speaker 1: motivation for other artists that are in their struggle phase.
Speaker 1: You know, well, I think that phase kind of crescendos
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen. It's then when your mother
Speaker 1: is fighting cancer, you're laid off from a job, and
Speaker 1: there's some I think boyfriend at the time that there
Speaker 1: were problems. This is a quote I'm reading now that
Speaker 1: really wasn't that long ago. My mom had thyroid cancer,
Speaker 1: but it was in two thousand eight or nine, and
Speaker 1: she beat it, thankfully. Knock on Wood been in remission
Speaker 1: ever since. Yeah, No, twenty seventeen was really hard. I
Speaker 1: was living with my boyfriend at the time, and then
Speaker 1: I found out he was cheating on me and we
Speaker 1: were very close to getting engaged. He had asked my
Speaker 1: parents for my hand and there was a ring and
Speaker 1: all this stuff I found out later. I just felt, so,
Speaker 1: you know, you feel like, what is my life? Who
Speaker 1: is this person that I've been sleeping next to it?
Speaker 1: There's so much betrayal and lies. And then I had
Speaker 1: gotten close to so many things in that year and
Speaker 1: it just kept not happening, and so the culmination of
Speaker 1: that made me just so down, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I gotta get out of la for a little bit
Speaker 1: or my fear was if I stay here and try
Speaker 1: to push through this without being close to my family
Speaker 1: and close friends, it could really do a number on
Speaker 1: my mental health and maybe I'll just want to quit
Speaker 1: and leave. And I didn't want to do that. You know,
Speaker 1: even in that in the moments of sadness and desperation
Speaker 1: and depression that I was in. In that moment, I
Speaker 1: had enough a little bit of clarity to think, Okay,
Speaker 1: I got to do what's best for myself and not
Speaker 1: try to push this through and be quote unquote strong.
Speaker 1: So I left LA for about a year and I
Speaker 1: came back home to the DC area to be with
Speaker 1: my family and close friends. And I'm so glad I
Speaker 1: did that because it rejuvenated me. It sparked my creativity again.
Speaker 1: That's when I started doing these women on the Street
Speaker 1: segments and sketches. It actually caught the attention of producers
Speaker 1: that cast me on a show, purchase Got Talent from
Speaker 1: the Got Talent franchise, so I became a judge. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it all worked out in the end. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: a tough time. Now, that low moment when you go
Speaker 1: back home to the East Coast and you make these
Speaker 1: YouTube videos that you're talking about. The most notable character
Speaker 1: I think that comes out of this is, uh, the
Speaker 1: Persian mom. Why don't we take a look at a
Speaker 1: clip from a video called Driving with a Persian Mom.
Speaker 1: I'm so hot? Can I turn the A C on
Speaker 1: a little bit? Thank you? Turnant? Yeah? Turnet higher higher
Speaker 1: higher lower lower higher, a little higher lower. No, that's
Speaker 1: too hot. Actually turn off, turn off. We opened window.
Speaker 1: You're seriously driving crazy, I said, don't go over bumped
Speaker 1: like that. I'm putting my lipstick on. Be careful about
Speaker 1: so hot. Look at this. I went to Lord and
Speaker 1: Taylor brand new, Michael Korres top designer, brand new. They
Speaker 1: had twenty five percent coupon. Then they gave me ten
Speaker 1: dollars off Michael Corres back two hundred. Everything is in it.
Speaker 1: Are you hungry? Do you want food? You want water?
Speaker 1: You want want matter? You want tea? You want? Do
Speaker 1: you want my car? You want banana? I have banana.
Speaker 1: He's good. Vita meant pistachios, Persian pistachio from Ion. Oh
Speaker 1: you're not proud of from Ilon? You want the pistachio
Speaker 1: from California organique. Be careful when you drive please no hormone,
Speaker 1: which is good. You have too many hormone already, so
Speaker 1: Dan stop, it stops. Maria Mariam Saloon, Hi, how are you?
Speaker 1: How is your husband? How is your son? How's Leila Hubie?
Speaker 1: She's driving me somewhere, driving me crazy. I don't know.
Speaker 1: We're never gonna get there. So that was from your
Speaker 1: YouTube channel. One result from the success of these videos
Speaker 1: is that some people would send you dms that would
Speaker 1: actually be marriage proposals, and I imagine this was sent
Speaker 1: through Instagram. But I'm curious about this because when someone's
Speaker 1: asking over dms, like for your hand in marriage, what
Speaker 1: is that first line? I read like it are they like,
Speaker 1: dear Nazanine, I'll never forget the day I first set
Speaker 1: my eyes on you on YouTube? Huh, what's the opener there?
Speaker 1: They're really funny and they make me smile. I'm like, oh, like,
Speaker 1: Persians are very poetic anyway. Our language is very poetic,
Speaker 1: so it's very flowery. You know. There's a lot of oh,
Speaker 1: when I saw your eyes and the way they twinkle,
Speaker 1: and your hair, and when they saw your eyes through
Speaker 1: the internet, through the internet, yeah, not up close, but
Speaker 1: they would twinkle enough from the Internet that it made
Speaker 1: an impression on them, So I very twinkly eyes through
Speaker 1: a screen. But yeah, the way they come at it,
Speaker 1: some of them literally wrote poetry, but some of them
Speaker 1: were just like, what do I have to do to
Speaker 1: come speak to your parents about your hand in marriage
Speaker 1: or my dream wife? And I'm like, you don't even
Speaker 1: know who I am. I can't be your dream wife.
Speaker 1: But they kept it pretty classy and respectful, some of
Speaker 1: them not. But yeah, it gets a little disorienting and
Speaker 1: you're like whoa. And then you also start thinking, I
Speaker 1: gotta be really careful about what I post and where
Speaker 1: I post from, so you know, people don't just show
Speaker 1: up places that you're at. I would get messages like
Speaker 1: that too, Oh I saw you were here the other day.
Speaker 1: Oh I love that place and could I take you
Speaker 1: there for coffee? And I was like, well, it can't
Speaker 1: go there anymore. So yeah, it's a little disorienting. You're like,
Speaker 1: it's like a combination of sometimes being flattered and then
Speaker 1: also terrified. Well, on an artistic level, what these videos
Speaker 1: did was open a new door, I think to the
Speaker 1: kind of work you want to make, work full of
Speaker 1: humor and pain and everything in between work like the
Speaker 1: short film All of You, which you start and co
Speaker 1: wrote with director Sharzan Devani, and most recently in this
Speaker 1: new play titled English, which is set in Iran circa
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine. For those maybe unfamiliar with the play,
Speaker 1: how would you describe it? English is a comedy, you know,
Speaker 1: I call it a dramedy. Also, it's about communication, about identity,
Speaker 1: about your culture, how language and communication plays a role
Speaker 1: in your identity, and how you relate to others, and
Speaker 1: how you look at yourself and where you fit into
Speaker 1: the world and how it affects your goals. You know.
Speaker 1: It's set against the backdrop of two thousand and nine,
Speaker 1: which is as we talked about when the Green Movement
Speaker 1: was happening in Iran. So that's the backdrop of it.
Speaker 1: We don't really talk about that in the actual story,
Speaker 1: but it looms over the story a little bit here
Speaker 1: and there because of what it means to want to
Speaker 1: leave or want to stay against the backdrop of what's happening.
Speaker 1: Since you're off book and performing this show just about
Speaker 1: every night, yeah, I thought perhaps we could do a
Speaker 1: scene toward the end of the play, okay, in which
Speaker 1: your character Marjan tells her student Goali Yeah, about her
Speaker 1: time living in Manchester. Yeah. This is toward the end
Speaker 1: of the story and Marjon has essentially been left by
Speaker 1: all of her students in her class for various reasons.
Speaker 1: She's been struggling to hold on to who she was
Speaker 1: and trying to figure out who she is and who
Speaker 1: she wants to be. And she is trying to instill
Speaker 1: some sort of knowledge and wisdom and advice to this
Speaker 1: young eighteen year old Goli, who is her only remaining
Speaker 1: student in the class, and who's always been eager and
Speaker 1: bright eyed since the beginning, I mean her first. In
Speaker 1: her first speech to the class, she talks about Goali
Speaker 1: talks about how she loves English and how ever, since
Speaker 1: she was a child, she's wanted to learn how to
Speaker 1: speak this language and the possibilities that could open up
Speaker 1: for her in her life and in her world. And
Speaker 1: so Mary John wants to instill some of her own
Speaker 1: personal experiences to Goali and in the hopes that it
Speaker 1: could help her achieve her goals as well. So this
Speaker 1: comes towards the end of the play. I guess I'll
Speaker 1: do Goldie, I'm gonna do the best I can Okay,
Speaker 1: where should we start from. I think we start from
Speaker 1: I grew up in I should point out though, in
Speaker 1: this scene Mary John's been speaking English with them the
Speaker 1: entire show, the entire play, because it's her way of
Speaker 1: immersing them and saying, this is how you're going to
Speaker 1: learn no far see, no far seeing class. This is
Speaker 1: the first time she and she with Gwili, and she
Speaker 1: starts speaking in Farsi, which in the play is denoted
Speaker 1: by speaking just in our natural voice like this. This
Speaker 1: denotes that we're speaking our mother tongue to each other.
Speaker 1: So this is where Gili's surprise is going to come from.
Speaker 1: All right, here we go. Hold on them me stretch okay,
Speaker 1: stretch right, yeah, stretch right. Get the acting chaps ready. Okay,
Speaker 1: I grew up in kadaj WHOA never really took the
Speaker 1: bus there. You sound so like, I don't know, that's
Speaker 1: our last day together. Might as well break the rule. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: a little. Yeah, it must sound so strange too. In Farsi,
Speaker 1: one morning after I'd been living in Manchester for god,
Speaker 1: I can't remember how long I've been there, but I
Speaker 1: took the bus and this woman asked me for directions
Speaker 1: to the City Center, and I gave them to her,
Speaker 1: and she just thought I'd belonged there. When you speak
Speaker 1: another language, a language that's not your own, God, you
Speaker 1: feel so loud all the time, like the worst parts
Speaker 1: of your voice are being filtered through a microphone. Your
Speaker 1: head hurts, and the days feel longer. You go years
Speaker 1: without making anyone laugh. No one has any idea that
Speaker 1: you are at the top of your class, or that
Speaker 1: you're adventurous or optimistic, or that you're kind, really kind.
Speaker 1: You start to forget that you're adventurous and optimistic and kind.
Speaker 1: How long can you live in isolation from yourself? You
Speaker 1: need to ask yourself that. But if you can hold on,
Speaker 1: it's it's everything, because one day the voice that comes
Speaker 1: out of your mouth will be one that you love.
Speaker 1: That's something I can't quite That sounds amazing. Well, it's
Speaker 1: such a pretty day. Get some rest, take a walk,
Speaker 1: don't study the day before the test. I think that's
Speaker 1: about everything I can impart to you. Actually, I should ask,
Speaker 1: do you have any questions? Does your family speak English? No? Well,
Speaker 1: my daughter has picked up bits and pieces over the
Speaker 1: years from movies. For me. You know, why did you
Speaker 1: come back? Why did I come back, I got tired.
Speaker 1: Are you tired? Now? You know? I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Thank you Marjahn for everything. I wish you the best
Speaker 1: of luck on your exam. And then Goalie leaves and
Speaker 1: I cry, and now we leave and it's just you
Speaker 1: and I here. Yeah, you know, I keep coming back
Speaker 1: to that question your character asks, where she says, how
Speaker 1: long can you live in isolation from yourself? And she's
Speaker 1: referring to the gap between the language she knows, Farsi
Speaker 1: and the language she's learning, which is English, and how
Speaker 1: she must constantly live within the world between them, And
Speaker 1: when you're performing that section, I could hear it even now,
Speaker 1: but I wondered how much you saw yourself in those lines?
Speaker 1: How much of your family you see in that dialogue? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm definitely reminded of my parents because it's a conversation
Speaker 1: we were having in a talkback. Actually, is that I
Speaker 1: hope that people walk away from this having a more
Speaker 1: understanding for people that come from different places and backgrounds
Speaker 1: and empathy because my parents came from Iran and you know,
Speaker 1: didn't have a full grasp of the language. And again,
Speaker 1: you know, we're not planning to stay here, and I've
Speaker 1: watched them be encountered by people who, because of their accent,
Speaker 1: my parents were looked at as less than or you know,
Speaker 1: people assume that you're not smart. So when she says
Speaker 1: people had no idea I was at the top of
Speaker 1: my class, or that I'm adventurous and optimistic, it's like,
Speaker 1: because you can't express yourself fully with the vocabulary that
Speaker 1: you that you can in your mother tongue, it's really
Speaker 1: hard to connect to people. So I definitely think about
Speaker 1: the struggles that might be sad being here, being in America,
Speaker 1: you know, and what that must have felt like for
Speaker 1: them to be on the receiving end of knowing people
Speaker 1: are looking at you a certain way because of your
Speaker 1: English and because of your accent. So it's very much
Speaker 1: with me in that last section. Definitely, in that last scene,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of that going through my head, what
Speaker 1: it must feel like and how disheartening and sad it
Speaker 1: can be to have to feel that. And I feel
Speaker 1: that too when she says I got tired, because you know,
Speaker 1: we say that in Persian two when you're over a
Speaker 1: situation or you just think you can't deal with something anymore,
Speaker 1: you say rasti, which means I got tired. It's a
Speaker 1: pretty direct translation. So I feel that. I feel that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I heard it in the performance. Yeah, And it's sitting
Speaker 1: across from Gloydi in that moment. You know, she's the young,
Speaker 1: bright eyed student who is like eager to absorb and learn,
Speaker 1: and she's just starting on the journey that I just
Speaker 1: ended with saying I got tired, you know. So it's
Speaker 1: almost like marriage on thinking like did I give up?
Speaker 1: Did I give up too soon? Was coming back the
Speaker 1: right choice? I don't regret coming back, but also who
Speaker 1: was I and who am I? So yeah, I think
Speaker 1: she's really desperately trying to connect to this young girl
Speaker 1: and give her some insight into what it's like, but
Speaker 1: also telling her not to give up, which is how
Speaker 1: I would feel as a person talking to a younger person.
Speaker 1: That's for example, like I don't know, starting out and
Speaker 1: acting like it's going to be hard, but like if
Speaker 1: you stick with it, the rewards could be very huge. Well,
Speaker 1: I want to quote something from a younger version of yourself,
Speaker 1: because in twenty eighteen, you did this interview with the
Speaker 1: publication called Khan Life, and the last question they asked
Speaker 1: you was where do you see yourself in five or
Speaker 1: ten years from now? And do you remember what you said? Oh? Man,
Speaker 1: I have it here, don't worry. Okay, yeah, I don't remember.
Speaker 1: I probably said something like still doing what I love
Speaker 1: or something like that. Okay, here's what you said. I
Speaker 1: see myself writing, doing comedy and being a regular on TV.
Speaker 1: I will make everyone love hate me one way or another.
Speaker 1: But really I just want to be able to do
Speaker 1: what I love, make people laugh, fight for what's right,
Speaker 1: and spend time with my loved ones, and maybe start
Speaker 1: a nonprofit and perhaps be invited to Oprah's house. Well okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: that tracks. What striking is the order of those wants,
Speaker 1: because in one breath you said you want to fight
Speaker 1: for what's right, and the next you say, and I
Speaker 1: want to spend time with loved ones. And yet at
Speaker 1: this very moment, to participate in that fight precludes you
Speaker 1: from spending time with the people you're fighting for, your
Speaker 1: family back in Iran. And I wonder how you hold
Speaker 1: and grapple with that battle. I look at it like
Speaker 1: a bigger picture thing that this fighting will lead to
Speaker 1: me being able to see them and spend time with
Speaker 1: them freely. And I know that I have their support
Speaker 1: in what I'm doing, which is the most important thing
Speaker 1: to me. That they're proud of what I'm doing and
Speaker 1: that they support it. Excuse me. It is a catch
Speaker 1: twenty two. Knowing that being so loud and advocating for
Speaker 1: the downfall of this regime also means that you cannot
Speaker 1: safely go back to see your family and friends until
Speaker 1: they're gone, but knowing that they will live freely, knowing
Speaker 1: that the people of Iran will be able to live freely.
Speaker 1: If the sacrifice I make now in this time is
Speaker 1: to not be able to communicate with them as much
Speaker 1: and not be able to see them at all, but
Speaker 1: know that that's what's on the other side, then it's
Speaker 1: worth it. That's the story, I guess you have to say,
Speaker 1: or that's the story you have to believe in. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: you definitely, because if you don't, it's just you're in
Speaker 1: a puddle of sadness and depression, you know. And I
Speaker 1: truly do believe it though. I think that's what helps
Speaker 1: is that I do believe that that's what's on the
Speaker 1: other side, and I do believe that that's what's going
Speaker 1: to happen. Because you know, in the meantime, we miss celebrations,
Speaker 1: you miss deaths. You can't be there for people's final moments.
Speaker 1: You can't grieve with your family, you can't mourn, you
Speaker 1: can't celebrate with them. But I know that I will
Speaker 1: be able to one day. Hopefully it's all celebrations. But
Speaker 1: that's part of what keeps me going and keeps me motivated.
Speaker 1: You know, I got to live freely for this many
Speaker 1: years in my life, and I shouldn't stop fighting for
Speaker 1: them to have the same freedoms until they do well.
Speaker 1: On that note, my last question. Since we started this
Speaker 1: conversation with the people of Iran, it seems only fitting
Speaker 1: that we end here. You know, last October November, as
Speaker 1: the movement continued to grow in size and scope, you
Speaker 1: said that these protests signified a new chapter. This time,
Speaker 1: this movement feels different that this movement in contrast to
Speaker 1: the White Wednesday campaign of twenty seventeen, where the Green
Speaker 1: Movement of two thousand and nine feels more momentous. And
Speaker 1: so as we find ourselves a month into twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: does it still feel that way to you? Yeah? But
Speaker 1: it's different, Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Because first there hasn't been
Speaker 1: this level of unity inside and outside of Iran. The
Speaker 1: media coverage, while still lacking, is still more than we
Speaker 1: have gotten over the last forty three years in support.
Speaker 1: The global solidarity that's been shown has never been shown before,
Speaker 1: you know, getting the the UN resolution passed to investigate
Speaker 1: the crimes of human rights abuses committed by the Islamic Republic,
Speaker 1: nothing like that's ever been They've been trying to get
Speaker 1: a mechanism like this off the ground for decades, and
Speaker 1: now it's going to be solidified. It's going to be
Speaker 1: on record in history to show what these people did
Speaker 1: to their own people for the last forty three years.
Speaker 1: But this mechanism is specifically for what started in September
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two until now. But the fact that Iranians
Speaker 1: are coming out every weekend in the diaspora to support
Speaker 1: and to understand that they're not going to be able
Speaker 1: to stop fighting until the people of Iran are free.
Speaker 1: The people of Iran themselves, which are the warriors, the
Speaker 1: actual fighters putting their lives in blood on the line
Speaker 1: for this cause, they're not giving up. They're not stopping.
Speaker 1: Something's changed within them where they're like we are just
Speaker 1: not going to go back to what it was. We're
Speaker 1: not going to turn a blind eye. We're not going
Speaker 1: to be okay with little concessions here and there. We
Speaker 1: want a complete change, you know, we want to be free.
Speaker 1: So I have not seen that happen ever to the
Speaker 1: point that it is now, and I do believe that
Speaker 1: it's going to just continue to grow. And revolutions take time.
Speaker 1: The last one took I believe, thirteen months, the Islamic Revolution,
Speaker 1: So we're only in month five, as you said, going
Speaker 1: into month five, So these things take time. We have
Speaker 1: to be patient and we will keep at it until
Speaker 1: they are free. And you want to keep fighting, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to, And I also feel like there's no
Speaker 1: other option. You can't sit back anymore as an Iranian
Speaker 1: in the diaspora and kind of watch these things happen
Speaker 1: and not do or say anything about them without, in
Speaker 1: my opinion, feeling like you're kind of complicit and what's
Speaker 1: going on. Yeah, of course, there's tough days where I'm
Speaker 1: looking at all these messages and these videos and this
Speaker 1: information and I'm just like, oh my god, I can't
Speaker 1: I can't handle it. I can't deal with it. And
Speaker 1: then you just got to buck up and lean on
Speaker 1: your support network and understand that this is what it
Speaker 1: takes to help. You know, it's not easy all the time,
Speaker 1: and it's that's why maybe we haven't done it as
Speaker 1: strongly in the last few years, because it's hard. That's
Speaker 1: something I do want people to understand that the freedom
Speaker 1: of speech that we have here is not give under
Speaker 1: the Islamic Republic, and that even people who don't live
Speaker 1: there anymore still have that fear of speaking out when
Speaker 1: they live abroad. But it still hasn't deterred anybody, and
Speaker 1: it's not going to deter anybody anymore. Nobody's nobody's really
Speaker 1: that scared anymore. You know. What do you mean by that?
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's almost like we're all in it
Speaker 1: together now and everybody has each other's backs, and it's
Speaker 1: like that looming cloud that they've had over their own
Speaker 1: people and us that don't live there, it's like fading away.
Speaker 1: Everyone's just kind of like, all right, whatever, cool, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we know you hate us. You probably want us dead too,
Speaker 1: and if you could reach us, you would kill us
Speaker 1: because we're using our platforms for good. But that's not
Speaker 1: going to stop us from speaking out. We've already crossed
Speaker 1: that threshold of speaking out, so there's no going back anymore.
Speaker 1: The clouds are parting a little bit, a little bit,
Speaker 1: I would say that. Yeah. And this level of unity again,
Speaker 1: I think is the most important thing to remember. And
Speaker 1: it's not just a few people here and there anymore
Speaker 1: in the community. It's like the entire diaspora community is
Speaker 1: coming out in force and using their whatever sector of
Speaker 1: life business that they're in, using their connections and their
Speaker 1: platforms to push this cause forward. So I think that
Speaker 1: is what's going to impact. The biggest change too, is
Speaker 1: that everybody's united. You mentioned that to be Iranian and
Speaker 1: not say something is to be complicit, and I think
Speaker 1: we have to get to a point where I don't
Speaker 1: know if you need the Iranian qualifier, because I really
Speaker 1: do feel that if we don't talk about this, if
Speaker 1: we just let it keep going and say no, that's
Speaker 1: that's just the backdrop of someone's existence and it's the
Speaker 1: noise that won't stop. Then, like all noise, you just
Speaker 1: start tuning it out. And I so thank you for
Speaker 1: not letting us tune it out, not letting us ignore
Speaker 1: that horrible, painful, heartbreaking sound. That can be heard every
Speaker 1: day on the streets, and so I appreciate you using
Speaker 1: your microphone, using your megaphone as you have, and for
Speaker 1: coming on this show and being as open with me
Speaker 1: as you have. Thank you very much for having me
Speaker 1: as a guest, Sam, I really appreciate it, Nazon Nor anytime,
Speaker 1: and that's our show. If you enjoyed today's episode, be
Speaker 1: sure to give us five stars on Spotify, Apple, wherever
Speaker 1: you listen. I want to give a special thanks this
Speaker 1: week to Sharzad Devani, Travis Hair in the studio theater,
Speaker 1: and of course our guest Nazony Nor. To learn more
Speaker 1: about her work, visit our show notes at talk easypod
Speaker 1: dot com. If you enjoy today's conversation, I'd recommend our
Speaker 1: episodes with Tessa Thompson, Gloria Steinham, Kihui Kwan, Brittany Pack,
Speaker 1: Nick Cunningham, and representative il Han Omar to hear those
Speaker 1: and more Pushkin Podcast listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, Spotify,
Speaker 1: or wherever you like to listen. As always, Talk Easy
Speaker 1: would not be possible without art incredible team. Talk Easy
Speaker 1: As produced each week by Caroline Reebok, our executive producer
Speaker 1: is Jennick Sobravo. Our associate producer is Caitlin Dryden. Today's
Speaker 1: talk was edited by Caitlin Dryden and mixed by Andrew Vastola.
Speaker 1: Our assistant editors are Clarise Gavara and Lindsay Ellis. Music
Speaker 1: by Dylan Peck, illustrations by Christian Chanoy, Video and graphics
Speaker 1: by Ian Chang, Derek gaberzek Ian Jones, Ethan Seneca and
Speaker 1: Laila Register. Special thanks to Patrice Lee, Kaylin Ung and
Speaker 1: Paulina Suarez. I'd also like to thank our team at
Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries, Justin Richmond, Julia Barton, John Schnars, Karrie Brodie,
Speaker 1: David Glover, Heather Fame, Mila Bell, Eric Sandler, Nicole m Rano,
Speaker 1: Morgan Ratner, Jordan McMillan, Isabella Navarrez, Makanic, Carl Megliori, Jason Gambrel,
Speaker 1: Malcolm Gladwell, and Jacob Weisberg. I'm San Fragoso. Thank you
Speaker 1: for listening to Talk Easy. I'll see you back here
Speaker 1: next week with one of my favorite writers working today,
Speaker 1: Hilton Nils. Until then, stay safe and so on.