Speaker 1: Pushkin. This is Talk Easy. I'm Stanfordgoso. Welcome to the
Speaker 1: show today. I'm joined by actor Bedro Pascal. I taped
Speaker 1: this conversation with Bedro last summer around the release of
Speaker 1: a film called The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent starring
Speaker 1: Nicholas Cage. He now has a new hit TV series,
Speaker 1: The Last of Us, currently available to stream on HBO.
Speaker 1: New episodes of that program air every Sunday. If you
Speaker 1: are like most people in America or around the world,
Speaker 1: you have probably been watching this show. I am just
Speaker 1: starting to catch up now. It is fantastic. You may
Speaker 1: have also seen Pascal hosting SNL earlier this month. If
Speaker 1: I had any say in the matter, and I want
Speaker 1: to be clear, I obviously don't, but if I did,
Speaker 1: I would immediately green light a franchise around the Protective
Speaker 1: Mother character he played. If you haven't seen it, just
Speaker 1: google Protective Mother SNL sketch. It's one of my favorite
Speaker 1: pieces that they've done in recent memory. There's one more thing,
Speaker 1: of course, come the top of March. I think it's
Speaker 1: March first. Pedro will reprise the titular role in the
Speaker 1: Mandalorian co created by John Favreau. You can stream new
Speaker 1: episodes of The Mandalorian on Disney Plus beginning March first.
Speaker 1: With that, a bit of housekeeping before we dive in
Speaker 1: the Pedro. Next week, on Friday, February twenty fourth, we'll
Speaker 1: be taping a live episode of Talk Easy as part
Speaker 1: of on AirFest in Brooklyn, New York, sitting with the
Speaker 1: brilliant novelist Minjin Lee. She's the author of books like
Speaker 1: Free Food for Millionaires and Pachinko, which was a finalist
Speaker 1: for the National Book Award back in twenty seventeen. It
Speaker 1: was then turned into a series for Apple last year.
Speaker 1: You can join us for the live show at the
Speaker 1: White Hotel in New York, where there will also be
Speaker 1: other live tapings of shows you may like, including Not
Speaker 1: Lost on Being and Slow Burn Roe v. Wade. To
Speaker 1: get tickets, visit on AirFest dot com. That's onairfest dot Com.
Speaker 1: The festival runs from the twenty fourth through the twenty
Speaker 1: fifth of this month. I am so looking forward to
Speaker 1: this conversation with Minjin Lee. She's one of my favorite
Speaker 1: writers we have today, whether it's in the form of
Speaker 1: fiction or nonfiction. She's also just a great thinker and talker.
Speaker 1: She was previously an attorney, and I think that has
Speaker 1: something to do with it. I think it's going to
Speaker 1: be a great episode of the show. If you want
Speaker 1: to come to the White Hotel in Brooklyn and watch
Speaker 1: it live, be sure to visit on AirFest dot com.
Speaker 1: For today, we're going to return to our talk with
Speaker 1: Padro Pascal. We start the conversation around his role in
Speaker 1: The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent, a project that in
Speaker 1: many ways delivered Padro back to the beginning growing up
Speaker 1: in Orange County, where he first fell in love with
Speaker 1: movies and acting, and of course, Nicholas Cage. I hope
Speaker 1: you enjoy see how you feeling. I feel good. It's
Speaker 1: nice to be here. There was no traffic and I
Speaker 1: like driving. People on a podcast love to hear about
Speaker 1: la People talk about driving and traffic right historically, they
Speaker 1: love this. It came over from Venice. It was a
Speaker 1: long way. I felt bad, I did. There was no traffic. Okay, good.
Speaker 1: I mean once you get to the one, let's do this,
Speaker 1: ye know, Okayody to get to We'll have it to
Speaker 1: the one ten. You know, when you start to go
Speaker 1: through downtown. Of course it was traffic. He getting to
Speaker 1: the five windows down on the way over here, on
Speaker 1: the way over okay, and then I playing music it
Speaker 1: got congested. I was actually listening to KPCC, but normally
Speaker 1: I would be listening to music and driving kind of fast.
Speaker 1: This film unbearable way of massive talent. It's coming out
Speaker 1: today today. Yeah, what do you feel on a day
Speaker 1: like this? Do you wake up nervous? I don't know
Speaker 1: how to feel about it, because it's never been the same.
Speaker 1: It's always been, at least through my experience, what seems
Speaker 1: like unique and different than how I would have expected
Speaker 1: it to be or feel like how I fantasized about
Speaker 1: it as a kid or as an unworking actor, because
Speaker 1: today this would be like the first thing that I've
Speaker 1: done that is not coming out on a streaming service
Speaker 1: or during the pandemic or with me actually in town.
Speaker 1: It's like a movie out in the world. People have
Speaker 1: to go to theaters to see it. Yeah, yeah, how
Speaker 1: they used to do them. Yeah, and we're still sort
Speaker 1: of figuring out how to do that again. So I
Speaker 1: don't know what normal is, obviously, but none of it
Speaker 1: exists in the realm of what my expectations or fears
Speaker 1: would be. So it sort of eliminates any kind of
Speaker 1: expectation because I'm like, I don't know what the hell
Speaker 1: is going on, and this bond is planted anymore. I'm
Speaker 1: going to go to a podcast today and there's no traffic.
Speaker 1: There's no traffic, there's no Does that mean nobody's going
Speaker 1: to the movies? It's good to just bring it back
Speaker 1: to yourself. There's no there's no traffic. Does that mean
Speaker 1: my film is bombing? People aren't going to the nine
Speaker 1: thirty showing? Does that mean that the movie that I
Speaker 1: have a supporting role in? And people say actors are
Speaker 1: narcissists and they're not. They're just not. They're just that
Speaker 1: they're like you, You're you're selfless exactly exactly. I'm thinking
Speaker 1: about traffic. I'm thinking about the movies. People, Please go
Speaker 1: see the movie for his sake. Yeah, seriously, go see
Speaker 1: this movie. Come on. In this film, you play a
Speaker 1: super fan of Nicholas Cage who offers Nicolas Cage, the
Speaker 1: actor in the film, a million dollars to show up
Speaker 1: to his fortieth birthday party in Spain. Now, in the film,
Speaker 1: Nick Cage is playing a version of himself as actor
Speaker 1: Nicholas Cage. You are playing I think a slight version
Speaker 1: of yourself as someone who actually is a massive fan
Speaker 1: of Nicholas Cage. Yeah, I think that because of what
Speaker 1: my timeline is specifically. I was born in seventy five.
Speaker 1: We got cable television pretty early, so there were some
Speaker 1: of his early movies on HBO, and then my father
Speaker 1: loved to go to the movies. He would take us
Speaker 1: to the movies a lot. On cable. You would watch
Speaker 1: Valley Girl, Bertie Racing with the Moon exactly, Rumblefish, Valley
Speaker 1: Girl in particular, because what do you have. It's kind
Speaker 1: of like this sort of dyed, reddish fuchia hair. Right.
Speaker 1: What was crazy about that was, if you think about
Speaker 1: it now, it was cool to be in the valley
Speaker 1: and then those crazy delinquents on the other side of
Speaker 1: the hill in like the cool part of town in Hollywood,
Speaker 1: like having real lives, those were that, you know, she
Speaker 1: was just really slumming it. But yeah, so sort of
Speaker 1: absorbing these kinds of movies very young. This is a
Speaker 1: different time. My parents were very young. We were really
Speaker 1: kind of unsupervised a lot of the time as far
Speaker 1: as TV was concerned. There weren't too many rules. It
Speaker 1: took a lot to send us out of the room.
Speaker 1: It took them not liking the movie to send you
Speaker 1: out of the room exactly. There were two movies really
Speaker 1: that I remember very vividly having like a huge impact
Speaker 1: on me and both of them because I didn't know
Speaker 1: what we were going to go see. Often already at
Speaker 1: a young age, I was like, I want to see this,
Speaker 1: or I knew what we were going to go and
Speaker 1: I had an expectation around it. But I remember Peggy's
Speaker 1: Who Got Married. I had no idea what it is,
Speaker 1: What could it possibly be with a title like that,
Speaker 1: I had no idea. It was directed by Francis Ford Coppola,
Speaker 1: and the other one was Raising Arizona, and I had
Speaker 1: no idea. I'd never seen I'd actually tried to see
Speaker 1: Blood Simple because the trailer had appeared before some movie
Speaker 1: I saw when I was a child, and it looked
Speaker 1: so scary and so visually cool. I like the image
Speaker 1: of a nine year old Pedro thinking, yeah, I want
Speaker 1: to see the Collen Brothers directorial debut. I'm telling you
Speaker 1: get me in here. And I remember, like you know,
Speaker 1: on drives and stuff like that, because there was this
Speaker 1: kind of I just remember this sequel. I was really
Speaker 1: into scary thrillery shit when I was a kid and
Speaker 1: am still now. But I don't know. He was burying
Speaker 1: a body out in some Texas field or something like that,
Speaker 1: and that's the kind of thing a kid wants to say.
Speaker 1: I guess it was just all the drama that I
Speaker 1: was after. I don't know. I remember thinking about the
Speaker 1: trailer did not connect it to when we saw Raising Arizona.
Speaker 1: And at the start of Raising Arizona, I remember thinking
Speaker 1: that the whole first few minutes was a trailer for
Speaker 1: this phenomenal movie. I'd never seen anything like that and
Speaker 1: had that sort of visual voluptuousness. It was just like,
Speaker 1: what is this? And then the title blazed in and
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, this is the movie. So anyway,
Speaker 1: they were very impressionable films, very very early, with not
Speaker 1: normal performances from this actor. Yeah, kind of big bombastic pieces,
Speaker 1: big swings that shouldn't work and work incredibly. They almost
Speaker 1: work in spite of themselves, like they're so big that
Speaker 1: they become kind of undeniable. Yeah, but if you see
Speaker 1: them again, it isn't about these performances being big. It's
Speaker 1: just completely stylized. But also really truthful. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: I have been kissing this ass so much, I know,
Speaker 1: but I mean it, I really thought you're going to say,
Speaker 1: and I'm tired of it. I'm tired. I'm tired of
Speaker 1: listening to myself in terms of the earnestness around this
Speaker 1: issue where I guess my favorite thing in life has
Speaker 1: always been movies, and then going back and reviewing these performances,
Speaker 1: I guess I've been able to really ponder what it
Speaker 1: meant to me as a kid seeing something like that
Speaker 1: for the first time, because it really holds up. It
Speaker 1: is everything that I would want to be able to
Speaker 1: pull off as an actor, is do something completely theatrical
Speaker 1: and there be so much truth and skill and believability
Speaker 1: in their performance. I think the thing you're hitting on, though,
Speaker 1: is that purity that he seems to have in performing.
Speaker 1: And I want to kind of understand the pure place
Speaker 1: from which I think you started to love movies. So,
Speaker 1: as he said, you were born in Chile. Your parents,
Speaker 1: Veronica and Jose, were young liberals in their twenties combating
Speaker 1: a sort of militaristic regime in that country. At the
Speaker 1: time they flee. They receive asylum in the Venezuelan Embassy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: then they go to Denmark, and then in nineteen seventy six,
Speaker 1: you're one years old and then you land in San Antonio.
Speaker 1: I was nine months old when we loved Chile. We
Speaker 1: were in Denmark like under a year, and we ended
Speaker 1: up in San Antonio. At what point in your childhood
Speaker 1: do you begin to understand the origin story of where
Speaker 1: you came from. It's hard to piece together because I
Speaker 1: know that my sister and I went back to Chile
Speaker 1: without our parents because our parents weren't allowed back. I've
Speaker 1: got an enormous family from both sides, and there visually,
Speaker 1: the way that I saw it, the presence of what
Speaker 1: had happened, the fact that my sister and I were
Speaker 1: the only two out of thirty four first cousins all
Speaker 1: living in Santiago, Chile, that we were the only two,
Speaker 1: that we were sort of like these unique members of
Speaker 1: the family being embraced and taken care of with our
Speaker 1: parents thousands of miles away. And so I started to
Speaker 1: develop a real fear of like camouflaged military guards with
Speaker 1: machine guns that were monitoring you know, it's not like
Speaker 1: they were everywhere or anything like that. I'm sure that
Speaker 1: there was a sort of normalcy of lifestyle that was
Speaker 1: achieved for all of my cousins that are the ones
Speaker 1: that are older than me, that basically essentially grew up
Speaker 1: under a military dictatorship. And yet the visual of that
Speaker 1: knowing somehow at such a young age that if my
Speaker 1: parents were there, they would take them away and maybe
Speaker 1: kill them. The way that that lived almost like a
Speaker 1: kind of supernatural presence in my imagination, was so weird.
Speaker 1: And then we watched so many movies, and I remember
Speaker 1: seeing Indiana Jones, like running across the plane field with
Speaker 1: Karen Allen in that white dress, and my Karen Allen
Speaker 1: looked so much like my mother, and so I started
Speaker 1: to imagine things like that, like my father and mother
Speaker 1: hand in hand, like running as like they were being
Speaker 1: shot at across like a dusty sort of airplane field.
Speaker 1: What do you call well, you said earlier that and
Speaker 1: being interested in blood simple you were searching for a
Speaker 1: kind of drama, which is kind of surprising considering where
Speaker 1: you come from. The dramas kind of built in. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we're not talking about it either. There was a
Speaker 1: very dramatic you and your parents aren't talking about Oh no,
Speaker 1: not at all nor any of the family members that
Speaker 1: made it over to us in Texas from Chile. And
Speaker 1: there was a very dramatic moment in our house when
Speaker 1: I was a child because its cost to grab us
Speaker 1: movie called Missing with Sissy Spacek and Jack Lemon, which
Speaker 1: deals with the military dictatorship in Chile at the time.
Speaker 1: It's a true story where an American journalist went missing
Speaker 1: and was found dead. I remember watching this at home
Speaker 1: on cable and there was a moment where Sissy spaces
Speaker 1: character she doesn't make it home before curfew and she
Speaker 1: just kind of gets trapped in the city and again
Speaker 1: sort of a beautiful, small framed woman that reminded me
Speaker 1: so much of my mother, and I sort of projected
Speaker 1: these kinds of images of my mother into these characters circumstances,
Speaker 1: and I just remember completely falling apart when she was
Speaker 1: in danger and when she was so afraid, and imagining
Speaker 1: that that could have happened to my mother. I remember
Speaker 1: having a little bit of a break down. What's almost
Speaker 1: like in the house. No one in the family talked
Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, And it took a film from Hollywood, Yeah,
Speaker 1: to kind of give language to something no one was
Speaker 1: giving language too. Yeah, and you know, I could sit
Speaker 1: through anything at the time, and I remember like just
Speaker 1: starting to cry and being like I can't, I can't
Speaker 1: watch this. And I was like, gosh, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I must have been like eight. You're asking me, like,
Speaker 1: I know, yeah, how old was I Maybe eight? That
Speaker 1: sounds right, because by the time you're twelve, your family
Speaker 1: moves to Orange County. You said, when I was twelve
Speaker 1: years old, we already enjoyed a very privileged situation, and
Speaker 1: compared to others, I was quite a spoiled boy. Was
Speaker 1: that true? Yeah? I was spoiled. You know. Our dad
Speaker 1: was taken us to the movies all the time. We
Speaker 1: had cable television, you know. Eventually, once we got into
Speaker 1: high school years, my mother had found this performing arts
Speaker 1: program that I had an auditioned for and got in to.
Speaker 1: I didn't like have to work during school. They weren't
Speaker 1: comfortable with that getting in the way of schoolwork. They
Speaker 1: didn't buy me a car. I got like the hand
Speaker 1: me down Volvo. For sure. I think culturally what it
Speaker 1: means to spoil your kid in Chili, at least then,
Speaker 1: is a little different. Although certainly I was developing needs
Speaker 1: from lots of John Hughes movies that I was watching
Speaker 1: when I was a kid, and my dad would literally
Speaker 1: be like, who you know being allowed to see everything?
Speaker 1: You know, there was one movie I wasn't allowed to see,
Speaker 1: which one The Breakfast Club. I was dying to see it.
Speaker 1: I was desperate to see it, and I wasn't allowed.
Speaker 1: Are the argument being it was rated R. But I
Speaker 1: was like, but so was First Blood, and you took
Speaker 1: me to the movies to see that. You know. Essentially,
Speaker 1: what I came to understand is that my father it
Speaker 1: was like, here are these kids complaining about their parents
Speaker 1: through the whole movie. Their lives look pretty good to me,
Speaker 1: so no, you're not seeing that movie. I like the
Speaker 1: idea that your dad actually wouldn't to go see the
Speaker 1: movie first, like he screened it for himself. He's like,
Speaker 1: you know what, this is not a picture for my son.
Speaker 1: He's gonna start resenting us can develop all these bad happits,
Speaker 1: those kinds of ideas like we yeah, can't have that.
Speaker 1: Yeah we could see the big chill about sort of
Speaker 1: like you know, his sex and vife whatever, but not
Speaker 1: kids complain not He's like, you're not You're not getting
Speaker 1: any ideas from this thing. Was it in high school
Speaker 1: that you started to develop an interest in acting? No,
Speaker 1: I wanted to. That was why my mom found this
Speaker 1: performing arts program, because it was sort of this fantasy
Speaker 1: that I was sharing with everybody at a very very
Speaker 1: young age. You know, I knew I wanted to be
Speaker 1: in movies and started talking about when I was seven
Speaker 1: years old. And what do people say when you said
Speaker 1: that they thought it was cute? I would imagine that
Speaker 1: maybe I kind of when given the opportunity to get attention,
Speaker 1: I would seize it and entertain and either annoy or
Speaker 1: really seduce an audience. As far as parents, friends and
Speaker 1: stuff were concerned, so maybe they were like, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: you definitely need a lot of attention. Nobody seemed surprised.
Speaker 1: He either needs therapy or he needs acting, and I
Speaker 1: got both. You know. As soon as we moved to
Speaker 1: California at the age of I was eleven turning twelve,
Speaker 1: immediately was like, oh, we're getting closer and closer to Hollywood.
Speaker 1: You know, really that was actually in your head, absolutely,
Speaker 1: And so my mother found like a summer program at
Speaker 1: South Coast Repertory and Coasta Mesa. This is before I
Speaker 1: got to high school, other friends found this, like children's
Speaker 1: acting program at Laguna Beach, and I auditioned for the
Speaker 1: kids show at the Luguna Beach Playhouse and got the lead.
Speaker 1: And it was a play called Wiley and the harry Man,
Speaker 1: and I was Wiley, you know. So at that point,
Speaker 1: all right, he's really into this. He doesn't want to
Speaker 1: swim anymore. Let's just keep him occupied. And they so
Speaker 1: they didn't mind it at all as far as um
Speaker 1: how much it kept me out of the house, out
Speaker 1: of the house watching, you know, from kept me from
Speaker 1: wanting to sit in front of the TV all day,
Speaker 1: which I do know because I'm an adult and I
Speaker 1: got what I wanted. You're that kids, if you grow up,
Speaker 1: you can just sit around and watch yourself on TV.
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, He didn't mention that he only watches things
Speaker 1: that he's in or things that he auditioned for, and
Speaker 1: he didn't get exactly over and over and over again.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go down that list. Too long. It's too
Speaker 1: fucking long, that's for sure. The day that changed you,
Speaker 1: as I understand it. Senior year of high school, a
Speaker 1: friend of your mother's gives you tickets to Angels in
Speaker 1: America downtown Los Angeles at the Mark Taper, Yeah before Broadway.
Speaker 1: Walk me through that day that performance. Basically, my mother's
Speaker 1: friend said she had theater tickets to something that started
Speaker 1: at three in the afternoon and ended, you know, after
Speaker 1: ten pm, and didn't have the back for it, like
Speaker 1: had back issues, And so if I wanted these tickets,
Speaker 1: I could take a friend and she'd give me a
Speaker 1: note to get out of school early and drive to
Speaker 1: the Taper and see this play. She didn't know what
Speaker 1: it was, and neither did I, but I was like, fuck, yeah,
Speaker 1: get out of school early. It goes get a play,
Speaker 1: Hell yeah. And it was Oscar Eustace's production of Angels
Speaker 1: in America. I think it's probably one of the twentieth
Speaker 1: centuries like most important pieces of literature, much less theater,
Speaker 1: because if you read it on the page, it's as
Speaker 1: good as a book, you know. And so I saw
Speaker 1: that with this underdeveloped brain, and it was about everything,
Speaker 1: and I remember it very vividly, so much so that
Speaker 1: I haven't really been able to see other versions of
Speaker 1: it because of how indelibly marked that first experience was,
Speaker 1: what elements in it spoke to you. It just was
Speaker 1: so fantastic in concept and in drama. I'm sure there
Speaker 1: were a ton of things that were over my head.
Speaker 1: It was overtly sexual, it was overtly politically, it was
Speaker 1: overtly intellectual, it was overtly emotional. And so there was
Speaker 1: just the visceral experience of these very well written scenes,
Speaker 1: for one, and these hyperintellectual speeches and monologues opening each
Speaker 1: kind of chapter of the play, and the political history
Speaker 1: of it all. And you know, you started to hear
Speaker 1: about AIDS before we all hit puberty in my generation,
Speaker 1: and so little information on that, and I think sex
Speaker 1: for all of us just seemed so scary. It seems
Speaker 1: it seems scary to all of us, all my friends,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like the idea of like,
Speaker 1: you know, being reckless around sex seemed like it just
Speaker 1: would have such consequence as at that point it didn't
Speaker 1: matter if you were gay or straight. You know, as
Speaker 1: we were sort of entering into that phase in life,
Speaker 1: we started to you know, look for saying have zex basically,
Speaker 1: and so it was just dealt with all of these
Speaker 1: things kind of head on. I didn't know about Roy Cohn,
Speaker 1: I didn't know about the Rosenbergs, and I didn't know
Speaker 1: enough about McCarthyism and all of these things, so it
Speaker 1: just kind of blew my brain wide open. But it
Speaker 1: was also like an incredible production, and the acting was
Speaker 1: so fierce, and I remember particularly between Harper and the
Speaker 1: character of Heart but the Mormon couple and Pryor and
Speaker 1: Lewis and the way that they had these like simultaneous
Speaker 1: kinds of fights. I just remember being blown away politically
Speaker 1: and creatively. This piece spoke to you, and I clearly
Speaker 1: awoke something in a young eighteen year old version of yourself.
Speaker 1: I also remember around this time like the kinds of
Speaker 1: impression that certain things made with movies as well. I
Speaker 1: remember seeing sexualizing videotape and this four character piece and
Speaker 1: just sort of getting into my system. I remember a
Speaker 1: teacher doing into Sakashenas for color girls who've considered suicide
Speaker 1: when the rainbow was enough, and they literally just completely
Speaker 1: laying me out in terms of how dramatically effective these
Speaker 1: things were in that particular form that play that movie,
Speaker 1: But also like what you were learning as a kid,
Speaker 1: you know, however it happened, it stirred something inside of
Speaker 1: you that made you think I should go to New York,
Speaker 1: attend NYU and try to make it go at this, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're looking at me almost terrified. While there was just
Speaker 1: so many other movies that took place in New York
Speaker 1: that I had seen and sort of already developed. I'd
Speaker 1: gone to New York with my father when I was
Speaker 1: a kid, and I knew and again developed this fantasy
Speaker 1: of a life that would start in you know, first
Speaker 1: it was going to be Hollywood, and then I started
Speaker 1: to understand that real actors came from New York. And
Speaker 1: I loved it there, really did. When I was a kid,
Speaker 1: I saw a little Shop of Horrors, you know, that
Speaker 1: Second Avenue theater where in ninety three David mammetts Oleano
Speaker 1: was there, and then Stomp came and never left. Stomp
Speaker 1: was there, and I think is still there as far
Speaker 1: as I know. And that's where I find a little
Speaker 1: in awe of the privilege sometimes, because I had these
Speaker 1: sort of fantasies that I believed that I ended up
Speaker 1: having access to and also just believed intrinsically that would happen.
Speaker 1: I got into en Yu. My parents did not want
Speaker 1: me to go. They nearly didn't let me go because
Speaker 1: in our house, like you had to do well in
Speaker 1: school and you had to get into college and then
Speaker 1: the rest of it. It didn't matter what you were doing.
Speaker 1: These things were being accomplished if these ba as, we're
Speaker 1: being checked and the care if you were fucking or
Speaker 1: doing your you know, and so but they did let
Speaker 1: you go. They did. They ended up letting me go
Speaker 1: to NYU. Yeah. Uh, and so I went there rude awakening,
Speaker 1: which part living there, going from being spoiled kid in
Speaker 1: Orange County, relatively sheltered kid in Orange County to living
Speaker 1: in New York and living in those winters and everyone
Speaker 1: way cooler than you, more talented, better, you know, smarter.
Speaker 1: Is sort of like be thinking that you're the ship
Speaker 1: and then realizing that you are insignificant, you know, and
Speaker 1: that everyone has as much ambition as you, and just
Speaker 1: finding space for yourself and the kind of existential sort
Speaker 1: of confrontation that it was to kind of be in
Speaker 1: a much much bigger world. We'll be right back after
Speaker 1: a quick break. As you start to find your footing
Speaker 1: in New York, is there any point in college where
Speaker 1: you started to think, Okay, maybe this acting thing it
Speaker 1: can happen for me. I feel comfortable in this. There
Speaker 1: was a classmate of mine my freshman year, this amazing
Speaker 1: actor named Eugene Bird who had started very earlies from
Speaker 1: Philadelphia and he's still, you know, going today. He's fantastic,
Speaker 1: and he had professional representation. In his generosity, he said,
Speaker 1: I think you should meet my manager. I think you're
Speaker 1: really good, and I met as manager. So before I
Speaker 1: ended up graduating NYU, I was being sent on auditions
Speaker 1: because I had professional representation and to me, so that
Speaker 1: left me under the impression that I was just going
Speaker 1: to happen like immediately, you do get two quick breaks,
Speaker 1: don't you. Well, you know, one of the things that
Speaker 1: happened while I was still in school, I went to
Speaker 1: an open call for a movie called Primal Fear, got
Speaker 1: called back for it, called back for it again, and
Speaker 1: screen tested for it for the end Norton role. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it was something that Leonardo DiCaprio was going
Speaker 1: to do. And then that didn't happen, so they started
Speaker 1: looking and it was like the big sought after role.
Speaker 1: I didn't get it. It left me with the impression that,
Speaker 1: while being heartbroken over that, I'll get the next one.
Speaker 1: Of course I did not, and then I did not
Speaker 1: and then I did not, and then I did not
Speaker 1: until you got the role on Buffy. I did get
Speaker 1: a part on Buffy, which was incredibly exciting to me.
Speaker 1: It was the first episode of the fourth season, like
Speaker 1: one scene and I got killed, and I couldn't have
Speaker 1: been more excited about it. So you have representation, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're twenty two, twenty three, yeah, agent manager, I have
Speaker 1: a couple of parts and something that got my sag.
Speaker 1: We got your sag, you know, Well, so you had
Speaker 1: some footing. Oh yeah, yeah, I thought, so, how does
Speaker 1: a twenty three year old you make sense of your
Speaker 1: mom's passing At that age? It was obviously very traumatic,
Speaker 1: and the circumstance of it is one that because she
Speaker 1: died in Chile, it means the services are immediate. They
Speaker 1: don't embalm. So it was it was getting the news
Speaker 1: and then getting on a plane and flying overnight to
Speaker 1: Santiago to go to a funeral. So you take a
Speaker 1: plane from New York from LA I was in Los
Speaker 1: Angeles when I found out because I'd been testing for
Speaker 1: a pilot called Dark Angel, which was a really big
Speaker 1: deal at the time because it was sort of the
Speaker 1: first thing that James Cameron's name was attached to after Titanic,
Speaker 1: and it was like a supporting role. It was like,
Speaker 1: you know, number four on the call sheet for which
Speaker 1: again was going to be the thing that was going
Speaker 1: to change my life. Instead, your life changes in a
Speaker 1: completely different way. Yeah, on that plane ride, what's going
Speaker 1: through your head? You know? I can't say, I know.
Speaker 1: I remember that there was a man sitting next to me.
Speaker 1: He didn't know what was going on, but airline travel
Speaker 1: is often a pretty hostile experience. I just remember that
Speaker 1: there was a man sitting next to me. He was
Speaker 1: just kind of protective in a way. He could see
Speaker 1: that I was obviously going through something. And I remember,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. Maybe the stewardess was
Speaker 1: like I wasn't very responsive or something, and and she
Speaker 1: wasn't like being sensitive to something that was pretty obviously
Speaker 1: going on. And he kind of answered for me, and
Speaker 1: he was a complete stranger. It's like he said he
Speaker 1: doesn't want you know, he said he doesn't want it.
Speaker 1: And I just can remember that. And I obviously didn't sleep.
Speaker 1: But it's an overnight flight, and so then you go
Speaker 1: and it was summer in Chile as well, so it's
Speaker 1: very beautiful out and it's a very beautiful day, and
Speaker 1: none of that seemed to coincide very well with what
Speaker 1: was happening, and so I remember being an unbelievable thing
Speaker 1: to get through. To be honest with you, what do
Speaker 1: you mean by unbelievable. I just loved her so much,
Speaker 1: and she's just kind of the you know, love of
Speaker 1: my life in a way, and the world doesn't stop
Speaker 1: and the sun doesn't stop shining, and it was meant to,
Speaker 1: you know, emotionally, it was hard for me to register,
Speaker 1: just to comprehend that you could being in a car
Speaker 1: going to a cremation service and see a family kind
Speaker 1: of like playing in the yard experiencing something so drastically
Speaker 1: different right in front of you, that other people could
Speaker 1: be experiencing joy, not even mildly, you know, like a
Speaker 1: beautiful summer day. And I remember that more than anything.
Speaker 1: Everything stopped, and I was very resentful that nothing stopped.
Speaker 1: That's kind of the most unnerving part of people dying
Speaker 1: in your life, which is that they mean so much.
Speaker 1: In your case, she meant everything, and yet the world
Speaker 1: continues on. You know. I had a hard time with
Speaker 1: that part of carrying on was wanting to get work,
Speaker 1: and yet it seemed so absurd to feel preoccupied by
Speaker 1: an audition for maybe a television show or something like that,
Speaker 1: or a beer commercial. It felt silly in contrast, too, Yeah,
Speaker 1: what had happened? Yeah, it was just too it seemed
Speaker 1: too ridiculous. And I did. I did kind of because
Speaker 1: I was kind of The plan was to stick it
Speaker 1: out in Los Angeles and having gotten my Buffy and
Speaker 1: like a theater award, you know, and I was like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: it's going really good for me in LA. I'll stay.
Speaker 1: But I think I understood that I didn't feel like
Speaker 1: it was It's not it's not. I love La, but
Speaker 1: it isn't necessarily almost nurturing environment. You know. It can
Speaker 1: be nurturing in terms of like going to the beach
Speaker 1: and going hiking and shit like that, but emotionally it's
Speaker 1: a challenge, I think for everybody often, and so I
Speaker 1: understood pretty clearly that I wouldn't. I don't know that
Speaker 1: I was in jeopardy of not being able to process this.
Speaker 1: So I moved back to New York. You throw yourself
Speaker 1: into it. Yeah, the original goal was to go out
Speaker 1: there and to do theater and to be a real
Speaker 1: actor and everything like that, and so I must make
Speaker 1: meaning out of my life. Big mistake, A big mistake.
Speaker 1: New York is like really you're back? Yeah? And what
Speaker 1: M back to? Back to the restaurant kid? Because I
Speaker 1: had graduated from in my eye, and I had spent
Speaker 1: a really brutal year after my graduation waiting tables and
Speaker 1: not getting anything, and then being convinced to get out
Speaker 1: to LA and to give it a shot out there
Speaker 1: and getting you know, a sag job and testing for
Speaker 1: a pilot, etc. So when I went back to New York,
Speaker 1: you know, no matter what it is, whenever it comes down,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to dissuade anybody from being romantic about
Speaker 1: their lives or their goals. But it wasn't a very
Speaker 1: practical thing to do, and it felt like a really
Speaker 1: huge detour because I got dropped by my agents and
Speaker 1: I couldn't get arrested, and then nine to eleven happened,
Speaker 1: and it was just a really crazy, crazy, crazy time.
Speaker 1: You said once in an interview, I had to let
Speaker 1: go of so many ideas I had about what the
Speaker 1: pursuit of this career was going to be. It's a
Speaker 1: child's fantasy. There were opportunities. A close call started early
Speaker 1: for me, but it didn't pan out. You find yourself
Speaker 1: suddenly in your mid thirties and can't live off the
Speaker 1: next off Broadway show. Yeah, how did you keep going
Speaker 1: when nothing was working out? I was a waiter, a
Speaker 1: bad one. But how I got through it was friends
Speaker 1: and family. Really, I don't want to be too sentimental,
Speaker 1: but you know, my sister was there to build me
Speaker 1: out of anything. She lived in New York for some
Speaker 1: of that, and I us as an adult, you develop
Speaker 1: your own family, which I had to do, and very
Speaker 1: very very very close relationships. There was just always somebody
Speaker 1: to bail me out and cheer me on, and so
Speaker 1: I don't really know, It's sort of like there was
Speaker 1: always just a little something to keep you going. I
Speaker 1: got a play. I remember losing my representation, and there
Speaker 1: was an audition that had been scheduled before I got dropped,
Speaker 1: and I think the only reason that I had been
Speaker 1: submitted for it was because the character's first name was
Speaker 1: Pascal and it was a world premiere of a play
Speaker 1: at the Merrimack Repertory Theater in Lowell, Massachusetts, outside of Boston.
Speaker 1: And I was like when you got that sort of
Speaker 1: brutal phone call from the agent saying that we are
Speaker 1: no longer going to represent you, and you say, what
Speaker 1: about that appointment on Thursday? Do I still go? And
Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, sure. So I went and I got
Speaker 1: that part, and I went to Lowell, Massachusetts to do
Speaker 1: this play. I think it was called Fallen. This incredible
Speaker 1: actress named Monique Fowler was in the play, and I
Speaker 1: don't know, we just became friends. She realized what my
Speaker 1: situation was and was like, I'll introduce you to my agent.
Speaker 1: I met him and went to an excellent, smaller kind
Speaker 1: of boutique agency, and that sort of got the ball
Speaker 1: rolling in terms of regional theater. I think the next
Speaker 1: thing was a play in Washington, d C. At the
Speaker 1: Shakespeare Theater Company, and then a tiny theater in Cape
Speaker 1: Cod and I really started to do the regional thing.
Speaker 1: Went out to Oregon, did Massachusetts quite a few times,
Speaker 1: did DC quite a few times. So it was starting
Speaker 1: to come together piece by piece, Yeah, piece play piece
Speaker 1: in terms of like very far away, you know, outside
Speaker 1: of the radar, professional work, which again started to feel
Speaker 1: really important to me as far as these were big,
Speaker 1: exciting wins. Also, I didn't have any experience in classical
Speaker 1: training and get cast in a production of a Hamlet
Speaker 1: or Troy Listen Cressida, and you know, sort of turned
Speaker 1: this professional environment into training grounds and that was cool.
Speaker 1: And then I got my first play in New York,
Speaker 1: an off Broadway premiere of Anilo Cruise play called The
Speaker 1: Beauty of the Father. And this was the first play
Speaker 1: producer in New York after he had just won the
Speaker 1: Pulitzer for Anna and the Tropics. Really big deal. Some
Speaker 1: nobody named Oscar Isaac was one of the other leads,
Speaker 1: and that got things sort of going within the off
Speaker 1: Broadway community a little bit. Took a long time to years.
Speaker 1: I had gotten back to New York in August of one,
Speaker 1: went into her souls for that play in the winter
Speaker 1: of five, and those years in between felt like a lifetime.
Speaker 1: And even from five leading up to Game of Thrones
Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen, you're putting it together piece by piece, somehow,
Speaker 1: remaining undeterred by what I'm sure was an immense amount
Speaker 1: of failure and rejection. A long time in front of
Speaker 1: yours and a great actor, Sarah Paulson set of You.
Speaker 1: He has a rather righteous sense of self. When I
Speaker 1: look back at it now, I do know there was
Speaker 1: always this voice deep down inside of him that said,
Speaker 1: someday he was going to do what he wanted to
Speaker 1: do in the manner in which he wanted to do it.
Speaker 1: I wish she had told me that. She told the
Speaker 1: New York Times that because in the meantime she was
Speaker 1: like giving me her per diem cash to help me
Speaker 1: by groceries. She bailed me out of so many things
Speaker 1: I can't tell you she made she very soon after
Speaker 1: my motherhood, asked I didn't have a car in LA
Speaker 1: and she made her younger sister give me her car.
Speaker 1: I think that her sister had an alternative. But basically
Speaker 1: those kinds of life saving moments, maybe that is the
Speaker 1: thing that unconsciously does kind of sort of keep you going.
Speaker 1: This sort of sense of stelf that she was able
Speaker 1: to identify. I had a really hard time identifying that
Speaker 1: you yourself, Yeah, for sure. What it started to feel
Speaker 1: like as you get older and start to get into
Speaker 1: your thirties and you're still doing this, and you're still
Speaker 1: going on auditions and everything, and you're not developing other skills.
Speaker 1: If you're me, started to think maybe it's too late
Speaker 1: to develop other skills. It's completely too late for me
Speaker 1: to develop other skills, And so it started to feel
Speaker 1: like a kind of ruthlessly practical way of living your
Speaker 1: life because it was what you knew how to do.
Speaker 1: I knew how to go on auditions. It was always
Speaker 1: just enough, you know, and there would be good months,
Speaker 1: bad months, good year, bad year, and eventually it just
Speaker 1: started to become a little bit more consistent. I've definitely
Speaker 1: felt there was sort of kind of a ceiling for
Speaker 1: me in New York that I wasn't really graduating from
Speaker 1: as far as the theater community was concerned. There were
Speaker 1: two plays that I was up for that I didn't
Speaker 1: get that would have been jobs through the winter of
Speaker 1: two thousand ten going into eleven. One was a revival
Speaker 1: of Angels in America at the Signature Theater, directed by
Speaker 1: Michael griff and they just didn't know where to put
Speaker 1: me in that. And then the other was I think
Speaker 1: they were moving a Merchant of Venice from the Park
Speaker 1: to Broadway. Didn't get either part, which meant that I
Speaker 1: was available for pilot season. I just started to throw
Speaker 1: my focus towards that in a really, really practical way,
Speaker 1: and again the dream sort of became maybe getting a
Speaker 1: regular gig on a series that could help pay the rent.
Speaker 1: The pilot season works out, you get a bunch of
Speaker 1: bit parts in episodics, though, in a whole bunch of shows.
Speaker 1: As we leave, I want to sit with a couple
Speaker 1: of things when you get the game at their ownes role.
Speaker 1: I think somewhere in the middle of shooting, you're in Belfast,
Speaker 1: sitting in the Great Hall of the Red keep watching
Speaker 1: this big enormous set around you come alive and activate
Speaker 1: and you are part of it. When you're sitting there
Speaker 1: looking at the place you've landed. After all you had
Speaker 1: to go through to get to that moment, how do
Speaker 1: you sit with that now? It's definitely like one of
Speaker 1: the best days I've ever had period period. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: set was beautiful, so many of the main players were there.
Speaker 1: I was sitting down instead of like it is key,
Speaker 1: instead of hanging from a cliffer or you know, running
Speaker 1: or in the elements. You know, I said, you're sitting
Speaker 1: down and you have a view of everything from where
Speaker 1: I was sitting. All of the background players in their costumes.
Speaker 1: It was wonderful. It was wonderful. I definitely had let
Speaker 1: go of expectations like that, really, you know, of that
Speaker 1: dream you had as a kid, Yeah, of having a
Speaker 1: job of that caliber, because again, like I say, like
Speaker 1: getting one of the Law and Order episodes, at the time,
Speaker 1: it felt like a really huge win. You know, the
Speaker 1: dream was sort of happening, and so the size of
Speaker 1: it just had just been so adjusted over the years.
Speaker 1: When I was a child, I dreamed of sitting in
Speaker 1: a chair on a show in a scene like that,
Speaker 1: playing a part like that. I remember being kind of
Speaker 1: really triggered by the audition process of Game of Thrones
Speaker 1: because I hadn't made myself totally invulnerable to the desire
Speaker 1: for a role that could prove successful. But I had
Speaker 1: definitely created sort of a healthier expectation around work, and
Speaker 1: when that started to be challenged again, it really scared me.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, gosh, I doesn't feel safe to
Speaker 1: want something as much as I want this. You know,
Speaker 1: I had learned that that's very painful because you had
Speaker 1: been disappointed too often. So we're starting in primal fear
Speaker 1: at the age of nineteen, and I'm like thirty eight
Speaker 1: at this point, and primal fear wasn't the only one
Speaker 1: you know, or many in between close calls and so
Speaker 1: being able to sit there and being like, gee, this
Speaker 1: I got this part. I'm doing this part. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was a moment I really enjoyed. To say the least.
Speaker 1: It's like you had this childhood dream. The dream worked
Speaker 1: out a little bit and very quickly in your early twenties.
Speaker 1: Then the world kind of came a crashing down on you,
Speaker 1: and it made you reset your expectations, and by the
Speaker 1: time you're in your early forties, you're thinking it's just
Speaker 1: too dangerous emotionally to want something again. Yeah, but to
Speaker 1: bring it full circle, You've done so much in the
Speaker 1: last five years that childhood dream has been actualized. And
Speaker 1: yet I'm curious for you as we leave. Did you
Speaker 1: get what you wanted? Yeah? More than what I wanted.
Speaker 1: I think that you have to maintain a relationship to
Speaker 1: the innocence of your imagination and also parent it with
Speaker 1: reality and keep yourself in check, because nothing is ever
Speaker 1: enough if you aren't in a relationship to truth, whatever
Speaker 1: the hell that's supposed to mean. I was going to
Speaker 1: ask you, Yeah, what is truth? What is truth? To
Speaker 1: you this point, you're forty seven now, or at the
Speaker 1: very least, what the hell is your truth? Be good
Speaker 1: to yourself and be good to people. If you want
Speaker 1: to do any good, you've got to be good, and
Speaker 1: that's going to start with yourself and those that are
Speaker 1: important to you. And I guess I would say that
Speaker 1: relationships and having good relationships is more important to me
Speaker 1: than everything that's been going on for the last five years.
Speaker 1: And I know that that's going to be the sustaining thing,
Speaker 1: So that's what I wanted. So it's it's a matter
Speaker 1: of staying in relationship to that and also to how
Speaker 1: fucking exciting it is for Nicholas Cage to be your
Speaker 1: scene partner on the first day of work, you know,
Speaker 1: having been flown out of the Los Angeles Apocalypse of
Speaker 1: the Bead of like that it would of twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: and you know, and starting a shoot day in Debrovnik,
Speaker 1: Croatia where your head was split open in Game of Thrones,
Speaker 1: like spitting distance from the arena where I shot that
Speaker 1: fight really pinched me kind of shit. It's always a
Speaker 1: challenge to remind yourself to kind of pinch yourself and
Speaker 1: to be like, oh, you know, things are kind of
Speaker 1: working out and early on in this conversation you said
Speaker 1: you were a little confused by by the fact that
Speaker 1: you and your sister were two of thirty four members
Speaker 1: of your family to remain in America at that time
Speaker 1: when you came here. I'm thinking about that now because
Speaker 1: you have this quote here. You said, I can't even
Speaker 1: imagine everything my parents had to go through when they
Speaker 1: escape from Chile, and that has left me with an
Speaker 1: inheritance of guilt that perhaps has determined the way in
Speaker 1: which my brothers and I navigate the world. That guilt
Speaker 1: that anyone who grows up with some privilege has, whether
Speaker 1: your parents fleet a dictatorship or not, do you still
Speaker 1: carry that or are you now, at this point in
Speaker 1: your life able to let it go. We carry it,
Speaker 1: you know. It's it's a generational thing. I think in
Speaker 1: spite of what my parents went through, they were also
Speaker 1: very lucky. I think that they carry the guilt of
Speaker 1: the humble beginnings of their parents. It's very contradictory because
Speaker 1: I feel like they didn't set any limitations. Because both
Speaker 1: my sisters and my brother have been kind of uncompromising
Speaker 1: in terms of what their pursuits are and how important
Speaker 1: their relationships are, and out of the four of us,
Speaker 1: maybe they would be very hurt to hear this. I'm
Speaker 1: so attached to them. I cling to them so much,
Speaker 1: which for I guess obvious reasons. I wonder what it
Speaker 1: is about my parents that made us feel such permission
Speaker 1: to be and do what we want, And so I
Speaker 1: guess for them not to have the clearest shape, the
Speaker 1: most solid shape to just put in front of myself
Speaker 1: makes me it isn't guilt necessarily, but it is just
Speaker 1: sort of, you know, some kind of I don't know,
Speaker 1: some sort of like duty, don't you know, be grateful.
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, I wish I could, I would.
Speaker 1: This isn't this isn't necessarily something that i've I've I've
Speaker 1: kind of like figured out what were you thinking? I
Speaker 1: was just thinking about the mystery of it in terms
Speaker 1: of how there's still sort of making sense of things
Speaker 1: and putting it all together and making shape of it
Speaker 1: so that you can kind of see it and just
Speaker 1: try to understand all of the events that have led
Speaker 1: to me just sitting in front of you and talking
Speaker 1: about it. I don't really know how to piece it
Speaker 1: together or what it actually means. And I guess what
Speaker 1: I was just doing now is just kind of staring
Speaker 1: blankly at the mystery of what does it all mean?
Speaker 1: Oh God, this is the end, right, We've got to
Speaker 1: You've got to stop me. I'm just going to stop
Speaker 1: talking so that I don't continue. Too hard on yourself.
Speaker 1: I know, God, I hear that a lot. Maybe that's
Speaker 1: part that's a goal. Something's hard on yourself. I don't
Speaker 1: know why your parents gave you the permission they did
Speaker 1: to be the creative person that you've become, but I
Speaker 1: think I speak for many people listening that I'm glad
Speaker 1: that they gave you that permission, and I'm grateful you've
Speaker 1: made good use of it. Thank you, Sam, Are you okay?
Speaker 1: I am feeling vulnerable, but it's that's that's a good thing.
Speaker 1: Thank you for being vulnerable. You're welcome. Pedro love to
Speaker 1: meet you too. Sam. Thank you, and that's our show.
Speaker 1: If you enjoy today's episode, be sure to give us
Speaker 1: five stars on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you like to
Speaker 1: listen to hear more conversations like the one you just heard.
Speaker 1: I'd recommend our talks with Tessa Thompson, Nick Offerman, Kate Blanchette,
Speaker 1: Jennic Sobravo, Janelle Monet, Ethan Hawk, and Jonathan Major's For
Speaker 1: those and more Pushkin Podcasts listen on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen. I
Speaker 1: also want to give us special thanks today to the
Speaker 1: team's and anonymous content and relevant pr To learn more
Speaker 1: about Babro's new work on HBO's The Last of Us,
Speaker 1: his latest performance on Saturday Night Live, and his most
Speaker 1: recent turn in the newest season of The Mandalorian, visit
Speaker 1: our show notes at talk easypod dot com. Also on
Speaker 1: the website will include information about our live show at
Speaker 1: on our fest. Next week, we'll be sitting with award
Speaker 1: winning and best selling author Min Jin Lee. If you
Speaker 1: want to check that out, It's on Friday, February twenty fourth,
Speaker 1: three pm at the White Hotel in Brooklyn, New York.
Speaker 1: As always, you can follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram
Speaker 1: at Talk Easypod. Do you want to support us by
Speaker 1: purchasing one of our mugs? They come in cream or navy.
Speaker 1: You can also buy our vinyl record with the inimitable
Speaker 1: fran Liebowitz. Visit Talk easypod dot com slash shop That's
Speaker 1: Talk easypod dot Com slash shop. As always, Talk Easy
Speaker 1: is produced by Caroline Rebak. Our executive producer is Jannick Sobravo.
Speaker 1: Our associate producer is Caitlin Dryden. Today's Talk was originally
Speaker 1: edited by Clarisse Gavara and mixed by Andrew Vastola. Music
Speaker 1: by Dylan Peck, illustrations by Christian Shanoway, photographs by Julius Chew,
Speaker 1: Video and graphics by Ian Chang, Derek Gaberzaki and Jones,
Speaker 1: Ethan Seneca and Leila Register. Special thanks Patrise, Lee, Kaylin
Speaker 1: Ung and Paulina Suarez. I'd also like to thank our
Speaker 1: team at Pushkin Industries, Justin Richmond, Julia Barton, John Snars,
Speaker 1: Karrie Brody, David Glover, Heather Fane, Mia LaBelle, Eric Sandler, Nicolemarano,
Speaker 1: Morgan Rattner, Jordan McMillan, Isabella Navarrez, Maya Kina, Carli mcgliori,
Speaker 1: Jason Gambrell, Malcolm Gladwell, and Jacob Weisberg. I'm Sanfordgo, so
Speaker 1: thank you for listening to Talk Easy. I'll see you
Speaker 1: back here next Sunday with a new episode. Until that,
Speaker 1: stay safe and so on.