KMO welcomes Hunter Maats of the Mixed Mental Arts podcast and online community to the C-Realm to talk about how to become more flexible and adaptive thinkers and communicators. They compare notes on uprooting appealing but counter-productive meme-complexes. The memes that propagate the most prolifically are rarely the ones that produce the best outcomes for the minds they inhabit. At the end, KMO invites Hunter to re-visit his criticisms of Sam Harris.