Against the Rules with Michael Lewis: The Trial of Sam Bankman-Fried

The day is finally upon us: Sam Bankman-Fried takes the stand. Michael Lewis and Lidia Jean meet up after a long day in court and discuss everything that went down.

This conversation was recorded on October 27.

Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our show notes or visiting atrpodcast.com

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Sam Bankman-Fried finishes direct and faces withering cross-examination by the government’s chief prosecutor, Danielle Sassoon. Michael Lewis and Lidia Jean Kott share notes during lunch, then Lidia Jean sits down with Pushkin financial reporter and host Jacob Goldstein to talk through the day’s events.

This conversation was recorded on October 30.

Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our show notes or visiting atrpodcast...

We're finally in the home stretch. Today the prosecution finished their cross examination of Sam Bankman-Fried, the defense followed up with a redirect, and then both sides rested. It’s Michael’s last day at court, but Lidia Jean will attend until the bitter end. They sit down to talk through the trial day’s events.

This conversation was recorded on October 31.

Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our show notes or visiting atrpodcast...

CORRECTION: In an earlier version of this episode, our guest incorrectly stated that in the case of a hung jury, a defendant cannot be retried without risking double jeopardy. This is incorrect. If the jury hangs, then the defendant can be retried. We have edited the episode to remove this and apologize for the error.

It’s nearly time for the jury to begin their deliberations. They’ll file into a backroom at the courthouse, and SBF’s fate will be in their hands...

The jury, after about 4 and a half hours of deliberation, has delivered its verdict – guilty on all seven counts. Lidia Jean Kott was in the courtroom when it happened. Her conversation with financial reporter Jacob Goldstein was recorded on November 2.

Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our show notes or visiting atrpodcast...

It's all over. Sam Bankman-Fried was found guilty on all seven counts. But what now? Michael Lewis, Lidia Jean Kott, and Judging Sam’s legal expert, O’Melveny defense attorney Rebecca Mermelstein, reflect on the outcome and look ahead to sentencing, SBF's other legal troubles, and the fate of the cooperating witnesses.

This conversation was recorded on November 7.

Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our show notes or visiting atrpodcast...

Lidia Jean Kott talks to journalist Elizabeth Lopatto about what it was like to cover the trial, the similarities it shared with Elizabeth Holmes’ trial, and what this all says about millennials, fraud, and the future of the tech industry. 

This conversation was recorded on November 13.

Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our show notes or visiting atrpodcast...

This fall we covered the trial of Sam Bankman-Fried, the founder of the failed cryptocurrency exchange FTX. He was found guilty of fraud and conspiracy and could face decades in prison. Now, we are covering his sentencing. Check here for those episodes starting the week of March 25th.

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While Sam Bankman-Fried has been on trial, the cryptocurrency exchange he founded, FTX, has been going through bankruptcy proceedings. Jonathan Lipson, a professor at Temple Law School, tells Michael Lewis that he believes the proceedings have highlighted problems with the US bankruptcy system. 

Jonathan Lipson’s research paper “FTX’d: Conflicting Public and Private Interests in Chapter 11” is forthcoming in the Stanford Law Review. You can read a draft here...

Sam Bankman-Fried was sentenced to 25 years in prison after being convicted of fraud and conspiracy. Michael Lewis and Lidia Jean Kott were there in court. They talk about what happened with Judging Sam’s legal expert, Rebecca Mermelstein, a former federal prosecutor and partner at O'Melveny and Myers.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.