Unstoppable Mindset

So what the heck is a “profitability and growth advisor”? Candy will tell us. Actually, she has run her own bookkeeping business for nearly 19 years. What makes her story interesting today is that her business is all virtual. She has a staff of nine spread over four states. As she will tell us, she even began this process before the pandemic.   Until just a few years ago Candy Messer lived totally in California. As the pandemic grew she and her husband decided to move to Tennessee where their children and grandchildren lived. Can’t have a better reason than that.   During our conversation, Candy will generously give us some sound business advice. She is a person who is willing to share.   She also has a podcast where she interviews business experts on a wide variety of topics. Candy is an unstoppable entrepreneur by any standard. I hope you love this episode as much as I.     About the Guest:   Candy Messer is a profitability and growth advisor working with entrepreneurs in service-based industries to help them have successful businesses.  With experience in the bookkeeping industry since 1998, Candy understands the stresses business owners face and offers customized services to meet their varying needs.   Her company energizes business owners by removing the burden of compliance tasks as well as working with them to identify issues preventing higher profitability and/or growth. As a result of using her services, clients have peace of mind and the freedom to do what they love.    Candy was named Woman of the Year for 2009-2010 by the Peninsula Chapter of the American Business Women’s Association, and 2011 Entrepreneur Mom of the Year by Today’s Innovative Woman magazine.  In 2012, the El Camino College Foundation honored her as a Distinguished Alumni of the Year. Affordable Bookkeeping and Payroll was named 2016 Small Business of the Year by the Torrance Chamber and Intuit’s (creator of QuickBooks software) 2016 Firm of the Future.   Candy is co-author of Business Success With Ease, Navigating Entrepreneurship, and Yes, God, and is the host of the “Biz Help For You” podcast which can be found on YouTube, as well as multiple podcast channels.   Candy has been married since 1992 to her husband Garth and they have a son, daughter, son-in-law, and two grandsons with another due in June. When not running her company, Candy enjoys reading, crocheting, logic puzzles and spending time with friends and family.   You can find out more information about Affordable Bookkeeping and Payroll Services at www.abandp.com.   Ways to connect with Candy:   www.abandp.com https://www.youtube.com/c/CandyMesser https://www.facebook.com/AffordableBookkeepingAndPayroll/ https://twitter.com/AffordableBP https://www.linkedin.com/in/candymesser/ Free guide to financial lingo. https://affordablebookkeepingandpayroll.com/free-report/   About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.     Transcription Notes

Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i  capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Welcome to another edition of unstoppable mindset today, we get to chat with Candy Messer now candy and I kind of met at one of the PodaPalooza events. We've talked about that here on unstoppable mindset in the past and PodaPalooza is one of those things that people go to who have podcasts and are looking for people to interview people who want to be interviewed on podcasts, or people who are just learning about podcasts. And it's an adventure. So all of that happens. Isn't it fun? I've gone to all of them, including this last one candy spin to most of them. And I'm sure we'll have a lot to talk about with podcasts and all that. But Candy Welcome to unstoppable mindset.   Candy Messer ** 02:07 Thank you. I'm glad to be here.   Michael Hingson ** 02:09 Well, thank you for for joining us and looking forward to having some fun. So why don't we start, if you will, by you telling us a little bit about kind of the early candy, what got you started school or any of those kinds of things, you know, sort of like always start at the beginning and go from there.   Candy Messer ** 02:27 Sure. Well, I was like born and raised in Southern California live there pretty much my whole life until 2021, where I was able to relocate because I have my daughter and her family live now in Tennessee, and I had two grandchildren, I'm about to have a third. So I wanted to be close to them. And the pandemic actually allowed that to happen. I've been working in my business remotely for many, many years, probably at least a decade, I had the ability to work from anywhere as needed. But it was finally when that happened that clients were aware, right that we didn't have to be in the same location. And so many years ago, I never intended to be a business owner. I was a full charge bookkeeper for a publishing company, and somebody who knew what I did said, please help me with my husband's business because I have to pay the bills and invoice and reconcile and all of that. And I don't mind doing the basic stuff. But I hate especially reconciling. And so that's kind of how I got started because she kept bugging me and I finally agreed to help her. And then I had to get some more clients because I had things that I had to pay for my own business that you know, I had to cover my expenses that one client, you know, wasn't going to do. And then after helping her for a couple years, my husband basically said, quit your job, do your own thing. People enjoy what you do. And that was basically in 2004 When I left the full time job and gave up that guaranteed paycheck, which was a little bit scary. So but I enjoy on a personal level, like reading, crocheting, logic, puzzles, things like that, but I don't have as much time to do that since I am an entrepreneur and work more than I probably should. But I have a staff as well that I want to make sure that we keep the business going so I can continue to support them to   Michael Hingson ** 04:31 we're in Southern California, where are you from?   Candy Messer ** 04:34 So I was born and raised basically in the South Bay LA County. And so I lived basically most of my life right in those same cities like Torrance, San Pedro, you know, I lived in Harbor City and Gardena for a bit too, but I would say like Torrance in San Pedro where I spent the majority of my time.   Michael Hingson ** 04:54 Well, then you know where I live. We live in Victorville.   Candy Messer ** 04:56 Yes, I've been through there my son actually well, both my kids is played club soccer. And you of course you travel in all different places. And so we'd been out in that direction a few times, even for tournaments or, you know, League Cup or state cup, things like that.   Michael Hingson ** 05:12 Hit believe how Victorville has grown over the years I grew up in Palmdale. And as I love to tell people, it was hardly even a blip on the radar scope compared to Palmdale when I was growing up. And we came back down here in 2014. And my gosh, there were at that time, 115,000 people in Victorville alone, much less the whole Victor Valley area, it's kind of crazy.   Candy Messer ** 05:37 It became more affordable to for people who really wanted to get into California, but couldn't afford the bigger cities, you know, and so they'd go into those outlying areas. And that's kind of what brought those other cities to be more populated as well.   Michael Hingson ** 05:52 Yeah. And I think it's continuing to grow it is it's an interesting place. It's a politically wise, a very conservative area, compared to a lot of California. But it's contributed to the economy. So what what else can nobody asked for? It? Exactly. So what caused you to or Well, why did you actually move to Tennessee specifically, that because that's where kids were or what?   Candy Messer ** 06:23 Right, so when the pandemic hit my daughter and son in law, were actually living in Ecuador, they had been there since 2018. And when COVID came, you know, basically, their country shut down within seven hours, it was they were told, get out now, or you'll be here for an indefinite period of time. And they hadn't originally thought of leaving, but things just shut down so severely, and they had no transportation, transportation wasn't even running there. It was hard to do anything. And the US government was putting together periodically relief flights out where they were getting some of their citizens back to the United States. And so at one point, they had a flight they were able to get on, and it was basically bring, you know, two suitcases of stuff with you. And then you had no choice where you're going. It was literally a flight from Quito to Fort Lauderdale. And so basically, when they were coming back, there was not really a lot of places that they could be at the time, my husband and I were in an apartment in Torrance and didn't have a ton of space, but they were with us for about two months. But my son in law, his grandparents said, we have a room in our home, you know, you could come stay with us. And then they ended up in the long run, finding a home that they're able to purchase on their own as well. And so they were able to be around family. And it just worked out because now in this little area, my son in law has his grandparents and parents, and who also relocated here. And then we are now here. And so there's both sides of the family in one place. And for me, I value family so much I really wanted to be around my grandchildren wanted to see them grow up and not just see faces on a screen. And so I get to be around and see their development and help my daughter when you know she needs some   Michael Hingson ** 08:20 help. We're in Tennessee.   Candy Messer ** 08:24 We're in the north eastern area close to the Smoky Mountains. So I said basically, Virginia is about an hour north of us and North Carolina's 20 to 30 minutes to the east. So right up in that little corner. So it's beautiful here, I love it. I mean, I've left you know, California to it was amazing, like weather and the view. I mean, from where I lived, we could still see mountains, we could go to the beach, we can go the desert if we wanted to. But it definitely is gorgeous here as well. And I really have adapted well, you know, to the move.   Michael Hingson ** 08:57 What do you find different about living in Tennessee as opposed to California from cultural and other kinds of standpoints?   Candy Messer ** 09:06 Gosh, there there are quite a few things that I had to get used to. I mean, I live in a smaller area. I mean, the county here is only like 66,000 people too. And so I lived in LA County, right which is a huge number of people. And so like even just yesterday we experienced where I was talking to my husband and he was saying like we could go to a location I'm like well I'm not sure if they're going to be open right like in California everything is open seven days a week on all holidays on all major you know events were in towns things on the weekend. Sometimes they're closed on holidays, things are closed. And sure enough, a lot of the small restaurants independently owned like everything was closed. And so you have to go to like a big chain like to be open and where we live. There's not like there's not even like really a hotel in the city that I live in. I mean, there's I think one technically like a little motel or something, but there's not like a lot of that a few Airbnb s are starting to get established. But it's way different. I don't think Uber even works here, right or left, right. So there's kind of things that you're just used to having all the time that you don't have here. But people here are super nice. And I enjoyed the neighbors that I had, I had built some relationships. But I know in California, a lot of times, we didn't really talk as much with each other in California, we're here, like, when we moved in, someone, like showed up, welcomed us to the neighborhood and bite us to the church brought us some baked goodies, you know, and, and then we're helping each other out as like if we need things. And so I think it just kind of depends on the people that you're around, right? Because you can have that pretty much anywhere, if you've got those kinds of people who are willing to be like that, too. But a lot of people are individualistic now and don't necessarily interact as much in community.   Michael Hingson ** 11:06 What about the food? I mean, you know, what California has like lots of fast food and everything else. What is it like back there? From a, from an overall food standpoint, in terms of what are people in the habit of eating and all? Chicken? Like in West Virginia, there are lots of fried things, a lot of dough, and all that.   Candy Messer ** 11:25 Well, here, there's something I still haven't tried it either, but I hear like pimento cheese is like the thing here, you know, or whatever. And they'll have sandwiches with this on it or other things, which I'm like, Okay, that's interesting. But there are things here too, that I enjoyed in California that I don't really see, like, I loved Chinese chicken salad, right? You know, or things like that. And you don't see that as much, much of that you don't see as much ethnic food. I mean, there are some, but it's not like, you know, like, I mean, again, in California and LA County, you could go to some areas, and there'd be Ethiopian food, or there would be, you know, just like all different kinds of cultures. So here, you can still get Chinese, Italian, Mexican, you know, whatever. But some of the other ones that are maybe a little more obscure in general, you're not going to see as much.   Michael Hingson ** 12:16 And how far away is your nearest Costco.   Candy Messer ** 12:20 I actually don't think there is a Costco anywhere close, there is a Sam's Club, which is probably about 20 minutes away. There is a Walmart in my local city here, you know, I just noticed there's a Ross it's being built right now. So that's kind of cool. But there's like a lot of the things here that I noticed, like none of the big branches of banks, even that I'm used to, they're not even here, you know. And so that was one of the things I had to adapt to is I guess you could do things on your phone, make deposits and everything. But with running my business, I really wanted to have a relationship with the bank where I could go in if needed. And so I had to kind of develop those relationships again, and kind of and I told the bank that I had in California, I loved working with them, I will still recommend them to clients of clients need something. But I felt I needed to have that. So that was to me strange. Like, I've there's all these like credit unions or small regional banks I've never heard of, and the big ones I'm used to. None of them are around here. So that was another just getting used to some of the things that are just a little bit different.   Michael Hingson ** 13:31 The bank wasn't willing to construct a branch there for you.   Candy Messer ** 13:38 Not yet. Oh, well, there's   Michael Hingson ** 13:39 there's something to shoot for. What does your husband do?   Candy Messer ** 13:44 Well, he originally had been a truck driver over the road, you know, in basically 48 states in Canada. And then he basically decided in the fall of 2019, to leave for the winter, because he just decided it really wasn't safe. Because the trucks sometimes were just like, automatically break. And if you're on ice, that's not a good thing. And so there were a couple of times where thankfully he's very good at what he does. But he had a couple times where he was almost in an accident because like the way the road was he would explain like say you have an off ramp and there's some cars like stopped on the off ramp, but it's not in your road, right sign your lane and the road curves. And so it would be perfectly fine. But all of a sudden it slams on the brakes because it thinks you're going to hit somebody and then you know you have a potential to Jackknife your vehicle. So he said, I don't want to drive in the winter. They can't guarantee that I'm only going to stay in states, you know, without snow. And so he was going to leave and then when he thought of going back, which was early, you know, 2020 Now we have the pandemic and a lot The trucking had, you know basically stopped. I mean, if you had grocery deliveries or things like that you could but he had switched from kind of what they call like the hook 'em ups where you've got a trailer and you just attach the trailer and deliver. And he used to deliver groceries and things to doing more heavy haul he used to take like pipes, or he actually delivered parts of the stage for the Super Bowl or you know, just like this heavy equipment that a lot of that demand had disappeared. And it actually was about the perfect timing, because at that point is when my daughter was about to have another baby, they were looking to buy a home that they ended up getting because it was a foreclosure. And so there's a lot of work that needed to be done. So he was able to help them with their home. And then when I would come I'd be back and forth until we finally bought our own home in November of 2020 2021. So I would help my daughter sometimes and I would go back and I was helping my parents also in Indiana and spending some time with them. And so I was back and forth a little bit, but he was here and able to help them when they needed. It   Michael Hingson ** 16:09 was cool, but it it's it's different. But by the same token, you obviously adapt and, and accommodate well and you're having a lot of fun. So you went to college in California,   Candy Messer ** 16:21 I did. And I decided I did not want student debt. And so I went to community college for the first two years graduated with my, you know, a BS degree in business. And then I went to my local four year university in Carson, California. I went to Dominguez Hills and graduated there. So I basically worked and went to school so I could pay, you know, my tuition as it happened. And so thankful I did graduate, and I went year round pretty much to so I can graduate in those four years, and leave without all of the debt that a lot of people have. And I'm thankful I did that, because it definitely made a bigger difference in my financial future than having that debt. But I know a lot of times it depends on your industry you want to be into. For me, I felt I didn't have to go to like a really expensive college, I was gonna get the education that I can apply it. You know, it's not always just what you learn in school, but how you apply it. Right. And so that's kind of that was my path.   Michael Hingson ** 17:27 So what did you do out of college.   Candy Messer ** 17:31 So originally, it's so funny, I started my first quote unquote real job other than like the babysitting and stuff I used to do working retail. And I thought that would just be you know, a job when I you know, as a teenager, I'll just do that until I decided to do something else. But I ended up continuing to have promotions while I was there. So I started when I was 17. By the time I was graduating college, I had been promoted three times. And they offered me a promotion. Basically, as I was graduating to manage kind of all the behind the scenes, inventory, stocking the floors, I had anything that you could basically put on your body I was managing, so they have the hard lines, which is you know, like your appliances and hardware and the soft lines. And so I was the behind the scenes manager of all of that. And so over the years, I just stayed in that job because I actually had enjoyed what I was doing. And again, didn't think that I was going to work retail. But as I got married, and I'd had my first child, I was pregnant with my second child, I just thought retail isn't for me any longer. I want to be able to have more time at home with family and with what I did. Sometimes we were at work early in the morning, most of the time I was at work by six in the morning. But during Christmas season, sometimes they would have us go in like 10 o'clock at night and work all night long. Because you don't have people in the store any longer. So it's easier to just get this stuff on the floor. And that's not really conducive to having time with your children. So I ended up leaving and I decided to be an at home mom for a few years and then kind of got back into the workforce, part time volunteered and my kids school and you know different things that they did and then over time, you know, became an entrepreneur.   Michael Hingson ** 19:28 So from retail, you went to do what exactly?   Candy Messer ** 19:33 So from retail, again, stayed home for three years. And then basically someone reached out to me who needed help. At a preschool. The director was on a medical leave. She'd been on a medical leave and then the person who had come in and replaced her had just left to go back to a different job when the director came back and then she had the same medical issue and was going to be gone probably another six months. And so they asked me if I would come in, kind of just make sure you know, all the records were being handled appropriately, all the monies collected from the parents and expenses paid. And you know, all of the things that needed to be done to run that. And at the time, my kids were still preschool age, my daughter was four, and my son was two. So I was able to take them with me to the job, they would go into their classrooms, I would do the work, but I told them, I only want to work as long as I need to get the work done, and then be able to go home so that I'm not just sitting there all those hours every day. And they agreed, and they had someone else who could work in the office. So if I wasn't there, and a parent came in with a question, you know, they basically could get their questions answered, but I didn't have to work full time. And that was basically my stepping back into work outside of the home. While I was at home mom, though, I was a Tupperware consultant. So I did have a little bit of time out where I was earning a little bit of money, but I was talking to adults, because if anyone has been home with babies, and that's all you do, you realize you need to have a little bit of adult conversation. So I had done that, too. And then basically, when that director came back, I was debating like, what did I want to do? Did I want to stay in like early childhood education, and then go back and get the units because if you're going to work, you have to have the units and early transmission. And or did I want to do something else. And then I found out about a position where they really needed help. On the finance side, again, in the company, I came in as like an accounts receivable person, and then within a few months, ended up being the full charge bookkeeper. Because the person handling the other side of things, accounts payable, was going to be leaving the company. So that's kind of how I got back into working and kind of the financial arena and the bookkeeping, and all of that.   Michael Hingson ** 21:59 Well, you and as you said, you worked with someone who, or you were involved with someone who really wasn't excited about reconciliation and all that stuff. And I can imagine that can be stressful and a challenge at times. And of course, especially during the tax season, life gets to be fun. So you, you do need to deal with that a lot. If you're going to N Have patience to deal with it too.   Candy Messer ** 22:28 Right? Well, so many people just don't like numbers, reports all of that anyway. And it's even if they know what they need to be doing, it's not something they enjoy. So they put it off, right, and then the longer you put it off, the more is to get caught up. And so then it becomes overwhelming and stressful. And so then it causes them to put it off even longer until the CPA says hey, I need your information, right. And so we come and just say, just do what you love, let us help you, even if you're good at it, you just don't want to do it, there's no need for you to have to do something that you're not passionate about. So let us help keep everything clean, organized, you know, done properly. And sometimes that's an issue too, because the software now has become so easy to use, that you can make mistakes, because you don't know the right way to do it. But the software lets you do something. And so that can be a problem too. And so a lot of times, the numbers aren't actually correct, which can cause some problems, right? And so, again, having someone come in and do it, and then you do what you love and your business, you know, I think is ideal.   Michael Hingson ** 23:42 my late wife never liked to work with numbers, of course, actually, she went to the extreme she said math lies as she could, she could perform a calculation on a calculator three times and get three different answers. And we never could figure out exactly how that happened. So she just said math lies Simple as that.   Candy Messer ** 24:03 Well, I think if you've ever seen those equations to that will say like, what's the answer to this right and it will have you know, like five plus three to the second power in parentheses a number and so you have to know the order of operations so you'll get people who will say different numbers because they don't know and so so yeah, you could come up with different hands   Michael Hingson ** 24:23 first well, she did the math wasn't rowsley complicated but things happen and at the same time she she handled all the basic stuff for our business to keep the invoices and all that but wasn't wasn't a great fan of it. And we have some wonderful people who though who we we work with who now since she's passed also really helped me with the books and all that because that's something that they're going to be able to do a lot better than I so I keep track of the day to day things but work with them and it works out well. But it was always funny to hear her. Absolutely swear that man applies. But she, but she still, she did it. And the other side of it is that there were times in our 40 years of marriage where we had some economic problems and lived off of some credit cards and all that. And she laid out the strategies to come back from that. And, for example, would not make minimum payments on credit cards and other things like that, to the point where we don't have credit card debt. And I've even gone to a little bit more of an extreme than she, fortunately, the, the credit cards that I do have, are structured where and with organizations where I can tell them each month, pay off the balance, so I don't even have to worry about it. And I did set that up with Wells Fargo earlier this year, and somebody didn't make it because they messed up. And it didn't pay off the entire balance, I pay it off the next month. But I also made them take back the finance charge, because they found in the record where I'd asked her to be set up to pay off the full balance. So, but I really am glad that she did all the things that she did. And so we don't carry any balances, and I wouldn't have it any other way.   Candy Messer ** 26:19 And that's one of the things that I talked to people about too, and say, you know, if you are going to have a credit card, you know, unless there is an emergency or something to and you really just don't have another choice, you know, it's okay to use them during the month, but make sure you pay that in full, right. And if something does happen, and you are not able to pay it in full, I also recommend don't waiting until that payment due date to make a payment because the way that interest works is its interest on average balance. So if you can make a payment every week, just make a smaller payment every week even and reduce that throughout the month, you're gonna pay less interest overall. So even if you pay the same amount, you think, you know, say I owe $120 Instead of paying $120 when it's due, you know, pay $30 a week. Yeah, and then that will help, you know, reduce the amount of interest. But one of the things that I think I do say if you can manage it and not have the balance carryover, a lot of times you can get cashback on your purchases too. And so I always recommend get the cashback you know accruing on your card, and then apply it to your balance to pay down that balance even and so even if it's one or 2%, it's one or 2% that you don't have to pay out of your own pocket. And it's things that you have to pay anyway, you know, like utilities or something, put those on your credit cards if you can, and then again, automatically pay that credit card every month paid in full, ideally, but then those types of things are going to accrue those values for that credit, and then apply it back to your statement. So saves you a little bit of money in the long run. So that's a wise use of credit, in my opinion.   Michael Hingson ** 28:04 And the reality is every little bit helps when it comes to making payments. So even if it's one or 2% it still helps over the long run. Exactly. So I'm really glad that at this point, we don't have that I don't have that hanging over my head, which I'm really pleased about and grateful to her for sticking to it, which she did, even though math lies, but she's still, but she's still stuck with it. And and, and made it all work, which was really pretty cool. So you have been doing bookkeeping now for how long?   Candy Messer ** 28:42 Well, I say I officially started again with my own business in 2022. But I started in 1998. Back working with that preschool and then becoming the full charge bookkeeper for the publishing company. So you know, here we are, like 25 years basically doing the bookkeeping and things like that, too. So   Michael Hingson ** 29:05 and your company today is called what   Candy Messer ** 29:08 affordable bookkeeping and payroll services   Michael Hingson ** 29:12 and that you started in 2022. Yes, so   Candy Messer ** 29:15 technically, though, so when the first person asked me to help her, and it was just me, I started it actually with a different business name, I just call it bookkeeper for you. And then in 2005, I opened an office, I was actually sharing space, you know, with someone and she said, My business has the name affordable in it. If you just name your company affordable something. We could just share the same phone lines, we can you know, we'll just answer the phone affordable. And if it's for me, I'll take it if it's for you. You'll take it as like well. I do bookkeeping and payroll. So how about affordable bookkeeping and payroll? So that's how the name actually came about. And so I kind of track that. Yes, overall, I've had many Is this since 2002. But 2000 is five is when I changed the name and basically started, you know, actually with an office, and then I hired my first staff member in 2006. And so it's kind of like two different starts. Yeah, if that makes sense.   Michael Hingson ** 30:20 Yeah, it does. And so as an entrepreneur, you are doing bookkeeping. I think you said early on, for a lot of people remotely.   Candy Messer ** 30:33 Well, early on when it was just me, and again, I started with the first person who needed help. And then I had a couple more clients I had to get, I would go to their locations and do the work in their office. And that's kind of where I make that switch of in 2005, I open an office. And so for a period of time, I still went to some client locations. But I was starting to develop where work was coming to me instead of me having to go to them. But initially, it was where I was finding people that needed help on site, they didn't need their own bookkeeper on staff, maybe they only needed someone once or twice a month to come in, you know, pay some bills or reconciling the accounts. And then again, over time, it started to shift more where it was the work coming into my office, and I was hiring more staff, and we were all in one place, and California until the pandemic, thankfully, I was already thinking of moving to a more remote team. And we already had a lot of that in place. We'd already been testing, as of actually my first person was in 2018, who had hired her, the day that I hired her, her mom ended up passing away actually in another state. And she was like, Oh, I'm not sure I can even keep the job. And I said, Well, we could be flexible, you know, work on your schedule, if you need time off, you know, periodically, you know, we'll work it out. And then that was in May of that year. And in November, she said, it's just been hard. I feel like I'm not giving everything I need to because I'm not able to work as much. And I said, Well, why not? Let's test this out, let's have you be able to work remotely. And we can set up systems and processes and test software and communication and you know, everything that we needed to do. So she started doing that November 2018. By the fall of 2019, we're getting all of the staff prepped and each person worked a different day from home. So most of us were still in the main office, but one person was at home, and we were testing everything out again that way. And then we're going to start moving into two days a week. And then we're going to do three days, you know, until we finally just got everyone in place. Unless you over horse a little, of course, I actually had to pay for some additional software or whatever to that allowed for all of this to happen. And we went from you know, hardwired phone system to an online, you know, VoIP system. But when the governor said, work from home, you know, it was easy, I could tell all my staff to stay from home. And technically, I was an essential business. So I could have required everyone to still come to the office. But I thought it's not necessary, right? There's really only one person I need to have in the office. So if anyone drops off anything or needs to pick up, you know, we still had some people who had printed payroll checks, they would need to come and pick it up, I needed one person in the office, everyone else really could work from home because everything that we do is basically online technology or things like that. So it just made it easy to allow other people to be able to be from home have one person and now I've literally got people in multiple states, because having a Remote Setup allowed me to hire outside of my local area work since we didn't have to be in the same office, right. And so I've been able to hire moms who have kids, I have one that had, you know, a child with a health issue that she can't really leave her home very much. And so she had a hard time finding work that would allow her to be home with her daughter. I have two people who in the last nine months have each had a baby. And so I've been able to allow them to have a flexible schedule. So when they need to get off the clock and help the baby they can they can come back home. You know, so there's like a lot of things that I've been able to offer that I couldn't when we were like a nine to five in the office business. Right.   Michael Hingson ** 34:36 So how many people do you have working for you now?   Candy Messer ** 34:41 Right now I have nine staff in four states about to be five because one is moving to another state. So but yeah, so and again, it's now a mix of I used to have mostly full time and now I have more part time than full time because again, the flexibility that I'm able To offer.   Michael Hingson ** 35:01 So it was no real great difficulty I gather for you to move to Tennessee, since you were as a company, so used to doing things remotely what an innovator, because for a lot of companies it was was hard to do. And I think still is hard to do. And what I don't hear you saying is that anyone has any kind of fatigue about working remotely, whether you communicate through zoom or on the phone, or whatever, but everyone is used to doing it, and you're doing it just fine. Thank you very much. Yeah,   Candy Messer ** 35:36 I think it's interesting, because, you know, yes, we are all in different places. And I think a lot of people enjoy still having the ability to work from home, but we still want that connection with each other. So we do have, you know, our, like, chat, you can individually send a message to one person, if you need to reach them, or if there's a group, you know, sometimes we'll send a picture of something just into the group chat. You know, like, when the ladies have had their babies, or they want to just do an update and send a picture, we could do that. Or, you know, sometimes we just send those quick little messages. But I also have a weekly team meeting that we're all coming into, we get to see each other on Zoom, see each other face to face, and most of the time, their business, but sometimes I'll have like a special little event, you know, like I've done for the babies that are gonna be born, we'll have work, we're gonna have a special little baby shower today, right? You know, or if someone's getting married, or someone just graduated, you know, so then we can honor like, the special events in their lives as well, which helps us feel connected to each other. So it's not like, Well, I'm just in my house, and you're in yours, and we don't get to see each other.   Michael Hingson ** 36:46 But look at what you're doing, you're, you're really providing a very supportive environment. And you are really adopting and adapting to whatever situation you need to do in order to make it a productive situation for everyone who's involved, which is your entire team.   Candy Messer ** 37:07 I'm just thankful that we had been putting into place, the ability to work from home, because if we hadn't had that already in place, and that shutdown had been order, it would have been more difficult for me to allow staff to immediately work from home because our phone system wouldn't been set up properly, or the way that we could get the data that we needed, or things like that. So I'm just thankful. Because at first I was like, how do you know, when you have someone at home, you know, that they're going to work as effectively as if they're in an office, you know, and so I'd actually had an employee in the past that actually stole time from me, you know, if I wasn't in the office, she would extend her lunch break and have people cover for her or different things. And when I found out about that, like, I was just pierced, like, in my heart, it was just like, I trust people. I'm loyal to people, like I kind of expected, I guess in return, like if that's how I am, that's what I'm gonna get. And so there was a huge trust issue at first about like, Can I trust people if I'm not actually going to see them? Because if this could happen in an office, when I went out to meet a client or do a networking event, what is going to happen? If you know, we are not in the same room? And I can't say that every single person hasn't, you know, done something maybe that wasn't 100%? Honest, right? I don't know for sure. But based on the team that I have, and how everybody does, what I see needs to be done. Like, I don't think that there's anything going on. And if somebody is not quite as productive. Is it as important now to just make sure that they're on the clock for the eight hours? Or is it more important to have the work that gets done? Right. And so that's what I have to look at is yeah, they're accomplishing the work. Right.   Michael Hingson ** 39:02 Right. Well, and it's always a value judgment, but it's great when you pretty much have mostly or most all the time people who are doing doing things the right way doing the right thing. And you don't have a lot of dishonesty and there is no need to to be dishonest to emulate. I think mostly people want to be honest and tend to be which is great. Right? Well, so do you. How do you get new clients? How does that happen? Since everything is remote   Candy Messer ** 39:40 Interesting enough, we still get I originally when I was first starting my business, a lot of the referrals I had were from professionals like a CPA, a financial planner, maybe a business banker, but over time, we've had a lot more people finding me through like a Google search or sometimes Yelp or things With that, too, but I think because I share so much content, I was, you know, back from, oh, gosh, at least 10 years ago, I think I started a blog, a written blog. And now I do video blogs. Now I of course have my podcast as well. And so I think, because I'm putting out so much content now that people are searching and finding us, and reaching out, and then I've done a few videos, especially, I've had a lot of people reaching out to me, because I did how to videos on the employee retention tax credit, which a lot of people have probably heard about, there's a lot of aggressive companies out there to telling everyone you qualify for $26,000 per employee, you know, which is a lot of times not true. But what I did was, I showed people how to claim that without even having to pay a professional to do it, right. So I walked him step by step, here's like the worksheet, here's how you put it on this form, and, you know, send it in. But people would still reach out and say, Well, I have questions. I'm not sure if I'm doing this, right. So we've been able to help them to as customers. So it has brought in customers, even though my intention was just to put out free information out there. So small business owners could get this because what really annoys me are these big companies that are or the aggressive companies. I don't know how big they really are. But they're taking 1520 30% of the credit by helping these small businesses claim this and I was like, you know, the whole point is, they kept their employees on staff during a pandemic, a lot of times they were barely able to survive, because they didn't have the cash flow. So why not help them get the cash in their pocket and not take 30%? You know, so let me show them how to do it. And that's kind of how I've had a lot of people come to me too, because they're finding those videos on YouTube. And I'm answering questions, if they have questions. Now, there have to be general questions. If it's very specific to them, then we have to say we need to have a consultation. And that's a paid consultation, because there's too many individual questions. But if someone is just asking a basic question, I'll answer that question for them.   Michael Hingson ** 42:09 During the pandemic, it was just my wife and me in in the business. So I suspect we probably wouldn't really qualify for getting a whole lot because income was a little bit rare. Not not, like, none at all, but it was a lot less because speaking and stuff wasn't happening. But you know, but I see those commercials all the time. And I've always just been amazed by them.   Candy Messer ** 42:36 And it just seems right now there seems to be a lot more like it comes in cycles, like I still even get texts, phone calls, emails, you know, have you applied for this, you can get up to $26,000 per employee just reach out to us. And so I know one of my employees actually told me recently, somebody had emailed us. And they were mad, because what we had said that their credit was was less than the $26,000 per employee. And it's like, well, you didn't do this correctly. So then she said, Well, let me explain like what the difference is. So number one, that's assuming that you qualify for all six quarters. Number two, it's assuming that everyone on payroll qualifies. If you have a majority owner and any family, like they don't qualify, it assumes that every person earned the maximum wage, and it assumes you didn't have a PPP loan, you know, or, or things like that, too. And so when she was able to show like, well, this didn't qualify, or this person didn't make the 10,000, or you had a PPP loan, and so you had to have this much of your money go here, then it makes sense. But again, there's a lot of misleading information out there. And that's why I get really annoyed. Right, because it's like, just be honest with people and provide the service at a reasonable rate, you know, and, you know, let them have the cash that they need in their business. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 44:01 because that's what it's really about. Well, you mentioned that you have a podcast, I'd love to hear more about that.   Candy Messer ** 44:09 Sure. Well, just like I never intended to be a business owner. I'm not sure if I actually said that in this interview, but I never intended to be a business owner. It just kind of happened. I never intended to be a podcaster what happened was teach ya. Right. Someone saw what I was sharing on LinkedIn. So I would, you know, post an article or things weekly, and of course, just general posts through other social media things that I was sharing, and she said, I think your content would make a great show. And I was like, huh, like, that's a scary thing. I'm actually an introvert. I'm shy and so like, at the time, too, that was a live show for an hour. I was like, am I going to know what to say? Am I going to know what to do? Who am I going to interview? I don't really know if I I'm going to be good at that. But then I just thought, you know what, why not try it, like, what's the worst that could happen? Right? And so I was with them for about 15 months. So I signed up. Before the pandemic, I signed up in 2019. So I went about 15 months. But then at that point, too, it was like, I want to be wise as well, with my business finances, we still don't know what's going on. And I can kind of cut back on that expense, do it myself, and my husband had been telling me, I should do it myself anyway, because then I could also be on YouTube, he's like, people search YouTube, you could post your videos there. And so in 2020, we did convert to doing it on our own and, you know, doing it through YouTube, as well as putting it to the podcast platforms. And I actually, a couple weeks ago, maybe or just recently just aired my 200 and 50th episode, I've recorded more, because we record a little bit in advance. But we've now put out 250 episodes, which I'm excited about that. And the goal was for me, educate business owners to help them be successful, because I see too many people who don't know what they're supposed to do until after they get a notice even like you are supposed to have a business license, you are supposed to have paid estimated tax payments, you are supposed to have collected and paid sales tax, and then they get these notices with penalties. And a lot of businesses started even in the pandemic because someone lost a job or they had free time. And now they could start a business. And they had a hobby, they had an interest, but then they didn't understand like all of the things about having capital, you know, understanding profit versus cashflow. Like there's things that they just didn't know. And so many businesses have failed. And I don't want to see that happen. So I interview experts, we don't talk just finance, you know, by the interview experts in the vast array of topics, to educate entrepreneurs. So if they need help with, you know, sales, understanding what they can do, to put together a presentation, you know, for a potential client, or maybe they need human resources assistance, or maybe they need to understand what they should have in a contract. You know, what are the types of things that business owners should know? Because most of the time, we're solopreneurs doing it all ourselves? And we don't know what we don't know. So that's kind of why I still do my podcasting is really just talking with people to educate those entrepreneurs so that they get the information that they need to apply it to their business.   Michael Hingson ** 47:46 What are some of the most common things that you discover people don't know about doing a business that you advise people about on the podcast or whatever?   Candy Messer ** 47:56 Sure. So again, like just on the podcast, we'll just talk about, again, any kind of thing that will affect the business. So whether it's on a legal topic, a marketing topic, finance, so what I started doing, because at first, I was always interviewing other people, and I never really even talked about what I did in my industry. And finally, I was like, well, I should be also sharing tips. So I'll now just talk sometimes about a topic. But like, recently, I talked about household employees, you are supposed to have them on payroll, if you have someone like a nanny, or if you have, like in home care for a family member, you're not really supposed to do them as independent contractors. And depending on the state that you're in, there could be some really harsh penalties as well. I mean, the IRS does have guidelines too. But some of the states are even more strict in California is one of them. Like if, in your business, you are paying someone to do the work that drives your business revenue, they are an employee. Right. According to California, there have been a few cases. And there's been a few exceptions. But in general, you know, if you're a website developer and you pay someone to create websites, you are not supposed to issue a 10 a nine to them, you're supposed to put them on payroll. That's one of the big things that people still don't know is they just think, Oh, it's just easier to pay someone I'll just write them a $500 check every you know, however, often I'm supposed to pay them and they can handle the taxes. And if something happens, and you know, it's great when everything's fine and dandy, and you're on a great relationship, but what if something happens, and now there's some type of Fallout, that person no longer works for you and then they go file for unemployment. Now you're going to be audited, you potentially are going to pay for all of the staff that you have. So we had someone that came to us. I think it was about two or three years ago, that they had been paying everyone as independent contractors. One person left the company filed an unemployment claim. And then the state agency came in and said, Oh, you had all of these people, you were supposed to have paid as an independent contractor you that you paid as independent contractors, you should have paid us employees, and now we're going to penalize you this much. And it was a pretty stiff penalty. And the lady was like, Well, I didn't know. But the government doesn't care that you didn't know, they say you should have known. So that's one of the big things that I see is people really just don't know, you should be putting someone on a W two and not paying them as an independent contractor. I had someone come to me once to that, when I was talking with her and wanting to go through kind of the compliance checklist. And I asked her, do you have a business license? And she said, Oh, I don't need a business license, I have a DBA. Those are two distinctly different things. And so I think a lot of times, there's just a lot of confusion around what do you need for your city? What do you need for your county? What do you need for your state? What do you need federally. And so that's where a lot of mistakes happen. And penalties arise, because someone just didn't know what they didn't know. And if you would have done something on time, you wouldn't have had the penalty, but now, it's too late. And now you have to pay this extra fine.   Michael Hingson ** 51:28 Well, we have my know, personally, worked very hard to have a good accounting group that helps us with taxes and helps us with everything relating to the business and I never have any qualms about calling and asking, are we doing this the right way? And I agree with you that, you know, I I know what I don't know, which is a whole lot. Okay, that's fine, as long as I can deal with someone and reach out to someone who does know. And I think that's really the important, the important part about the process, we we shouldn't make assumptions, because there are just too many ways that we mess up and don't necessarily understand it. And so I hear what you're saying?   Candy Messer ** 52:13 Well, I think that's where it's important to understand the value of working with professionals, right, having an actual CPA that could help you with tax prep, instead of just going to h&r block, or you know, some of those others, where you're not going to even have a relationship with that tax preparer. A lot of times they turn over so fast. Every year, there's someone new, but the person who helped you in the past isn't even there doesn't know your specific business, you know, or a financial planner, working with them to figure out what should you be doing, planning for things now for your future, whether it's just your business, your personal, everything kind of commingles a lot of that too, but really seeing the value of what you're getting from working with someone. So it's the same thing with us, if someone just sees us as like transactional, we're just going to post some things and they're going to be able to go to the CPA, that's not as great of a relationship that we want to have, as much as we want to be an advisor, we want to be able to help you understand your finances, what can you do to make improvements to improve your cash flow, like have better profitability? You know, but a lot of times people see, like the dollar sign, and they're like, oh, but you know, the computer shouldn't be doing everything, why would I pay you this much, right? And the computer doesn't do everything. That's, you know, not a fact. But, but some people just see it as a commodity, because they have to pay their taxes, somebody has to do the income tax returns, so they have to have a CPA, and then they need someone like us to do the bookkeeping, so the CPA knows what to put on the tax return. But if you don't see that as an investment in your company, you're going to want to pay the least amount, you're gonna want to have the least interaction with them as possible, right, and you get what you pay for a year. Right, exactly. And so I think that's one of the things we are trying to explain to people as well as ces as a resource, and let's work together in a partnership, not just a once a year, drop off your box, and you know, we'll post the things for you, or even if it's once a month, like look at the information that we send, but financial reports give you great information, and you can use it to make wise business decisions. If you don't even look at that. How do you know if you're doing well, just because you have money in the bank doesn't mean you're profitable. What if you, you know, got a loan or you got a grant or different things, right? That money's on income, right? And so your expenses could be more and if you're not making some adjustments, you could be in for a big surprise, you know, and so there's it's like that working together. How can we make things more efficient? What can we do to really have you be successful   Michael Hingson ** 54:59 and Those are all certainly important things. And I think that's really the key is that your job is in part to help make your clients successful.   Candy Messer ** 55:11 Right? It has to be part of it. Exactly. And like I said earlier, like too many businesses fail, often they don't have the capital they need, they don't realize, you know, you need to have more money to run the business than you think, especially when you're launching a business. A lot of times, people don't realize everything that it takes, you know, to be able to run a company. Now, if you have a service based business, especially if you're working from home, you're not going to have as much overhead, right? If you're going to try to sell a product, if you have an actual location that you know, you have your overhead rent and utilities, and you know, all of that, then it's going to cost you more. But I usually tell people, if you're going to be running your business, and you're coming up with your budget and your estimates, first go ahead and create, what do I think I'm going to make? What do I think my expenses are going to be? And then reduce your income and increase your expenses? Right? And then that may be a more realistic picture. And it actually is the income is more than you thought, fabulous. If the expenses are less than you put on your budget. Wonderful, right? You have more available to you that you can then invest into your business again, or you know, put away for those unexpected things that happen because we all have unexpected things that happen that you want to have that rainy day funds set aside.   Michael Hingson ** 56:36 Yep, absolutely do. And it's important to do that, because you just never know what's going to happen. Right? So what do you do when you're not doing business stuff and being an entrepreneur?   Candy Messer ** 56:49 Well, like I said, now that I am close to family here to in Tennessee, I love to spend time with my grandchildren. Like I said, I'm about to have a third within the next couple of weeks. And so again, I'll be helping as much as I can. Because it's never easy to have a newborn, let alone when you have toddlers and children. My daughter will now have three children four and under. So she's gonna have her hands full. When I'm here, I've actually been learning some gardening I didn't get to do too much ever really in California. I mean, when I lived in St. Pete, Georgia, we had a little bit of space, but not much. But other than that I never really had a place to really plant and so I'm trying some things last year, I actually did really well with some squash, spaghetti squash, I mean, spaghetti squash, I didn't even tend actually had started like a compost and then threw some seeds in there and the seeds like just took off and I ended up with nine spaghetti squash without even intending to. But we had grown some jalapenos, although my husband said they weren't hot enough. He said they're too mild throw those seeds out. For next year, let's get hotter ones. But so you know Cilantro is doing well or oregano is doing well. So I've had some success. And then this year, I'm also working on a few new vegetables. So so that part has been fun. And you know, we see what works, what doesn't and learn from it. And then when I'm indoors, I do love to read or I crochet I make gifts. A lot of times for people if I know they're having a baby or something to me like a baby blanket, or like a beanie and booties and a pacifier clip, or you know just different things. So when I have the chance, I will put that together and give that as a gift. But those are kind of the things I enjoy. I wish we   Michael Hingson ** 58:41 could do more growing up trees up here. Like I'd love to grow a peach tree and some of those things, but we live up on the high desert and so it just doesn't work for the biggest reason is it gets too cold in the winter. We don't get the snow, but we get the cold.   Candy Messer ** 58:59 We have cold here too. But we were told that certain things will do well, so we actually planted last year and we were told it will take two to three years to really see fruit. But last year we planted apple trees and this is the thing it's like you have to have some that pollinate each other. Right. So this one pollinates this one but doesn't pollinate this one. So we had to get like a Macintosh that will pollinate these other two, you know that we got and then we did get a peach a plum persimmon and cherry as well. So we'll see. And now we have a lemon two, which, again, we're told citrus doesn't do well when it gets really cold. But then we've been told here that it still will work. And so last year, we bought a lemon tree but we brought it inside. We left it in the bucket. We brought it inside during the winter, but it's continuing to grow. So about three weeks ago we planted it outside. We'll see. We'll see what we have to do to protect it but we're going to try   Michael Hingson ** 59:54 one of the things that we did we had a lemon tree and I guess a lime tree When we lived in Mission Viejo, and it got cold enough, that some times during the winter, we put put a plastic bag over, we kept them in a bucket, we would just put a plastic bag over it. And that was enough insulation. So the tree survived. Interesting. We just did it at night and then took it off. But well, this has been absolutely fun to do. And I really appreciate you coming on. Do you have any other kind of final words of wisdom that we should pass on to folks?   Candy Messer ** 1:00:30 I would just say whether you are you know, a business owner or not really just look at your financial picture and plan for your future and see, you know, what can you reduce in your expenses that are not necessary, so many people will like, buy those subscriptions and forget about them or not use them, you know, so really just maybe audit your expenses, see where you could cut some things out that you're really not using and then Park put that money away into something that's going to grow over time? And then you know, you'll benefit from that.   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:05 Well, that is wonderful. And I really appreciate you saying that if people want to reach out to you how do they do that and and learn more about you and, and maybe engage your services?   Candy Messer ** 1:01:17 Sure, well, I would, I'll go ahead and say for my podcast again, you can find that it's called biz help for you.   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:23 Bi is B I Z   Candy Messer ** 1:01:27 for you help. And then four is spelled out f o r you are but F O R. So this help for you on YouTube. You can also find it on many podcast platforms. And then my website is AB and P.com. Or if you want to type out the full thing affordable bookkeeping and payroll.com. But you can find out a little bit more about us there. And of course, I'm on social media, you can find me on LinkedIn. I do have a business Facebook page as well. But like I do a lot on LinkedIn too. So you can connect with me there Candy Messer, and I would love to just connect more with people who have some questions are willing to be here as a resource,   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:09 ABandP.com as the and the and sign or a n d   Candy Messer ** 1:02:13 it's a n d so it's filled out. So   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:16 A, Band P.com. Well, thank you for coming on. And hopefully we'll see you at the next PodaPalooza but I really appreciate you taking the time to do all this today. Now it's getting to be dinner time for you. Which is, which is always an important time of the day. But I'd like to thank you all for listening to us as well. If you'd like to reach out and comment to me about our episode today or have any thoughts about future guests. We're always looking for guests. So Candy if you know anyone that you think we ought to have as a guest always looking for suggestions. We'd love introductions. You can reach me at Michaelhi M i c h e l h i at accessibe A C C E S S I B E.com. Or go to our podcast page. www dot Michael hingson h i n g s o n.com/podcast. Love to hear your thoughts always looking for input. And of course, please give us a five star rating wherever you're listening to this podcast. We appreciate your ratings and your thoughts. All the more and I love to get them so please don't hesitate to do that. And again, Candy, thank you very much. This has been absolutely fun and delightful to do with you today.   Candy Messer ** 1:03:30 I enjoyed our conversation. Thanks for the invitation.   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:38 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com. accessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for listening. 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